Design fees- How much to charge

Builderfromhell

WHAT DO YOU ALL CHARGE FOR HOUSE DESIGN?

Now that we are in a recession I'm wondering what is a reasonable fee to charge for a one off house in the country. I know there are many variables like;
Budget.
Design complexity.
Client's ability to articulate their needs.
Level of service; planning only, Tender docs, supervise construction etc.

But lets say you have a client like this;
Not short of money and has a nice level site.
Educated and well able to describe what they are hoping to achieve.
Planning drawings and Tender documents (SPecification, electrical & heating layout).

I describe fictitious client above to make it easier.

The dilemma sometimes is;
If you ask for too little they may think you are no good and politely refuse. I've had this happen twice over phone.
If you charge too much, they know their are others looking for work so they might 'shop around'.
It's also tempting to charge what you feel people are comfortable to pay.
ie. penny pinching guy with low design standards isn't going to pay much.
Rich guy with high standards may be happy to pay more.
I've simplified above comments for brevity.

sydthebeat

why do you want to know....

sinnerboy

Sorry BFH . Doubt this thread will take off

muffler

You may get some ideas here but I dont expect any of the regulars here, including myself, to disclose what fee they charge for this service.

topcatcbr

Charge as little as you can afford to do the job for while charging enough to make it worth your time and interesting enough to do a good job.

Mellor

It depends

Poor Uncle Tom

Not telling..

Builderfromhell

Thanks guys.:P:D:D
Glad to see Arch Tech Posters have a sense of humour.:rolleyes:

muffler

Asking that is like asking a man what his wife is like in bed.

Well not really. You would probably hear a bit about about the mattress abuse

Builderfromhell

I still think it's a valid question to which many on here would like feedback on. The recession will mean deflationary pressure on prices/fees. Less work to go around and possibly more people competing for it.
What you charged last year may not be acceptable this year.
In my case, as I am highly talented, it's not a big issue;)

muffler

Builderfromhell wrote: »

In my case, as I am highly talented, it's not a big issue;)

I'll just delete this thread so

No6

No matter how much you charge its never enough!!! With the credit crunch you can charge a lot of them what you like they wouln't pay you anyways!!:eek:

archtech

No6 wrote: »

With the credit crunch you can charge a lot of them what you like they wouln't pay you anyways!!:eek:

That's why you make sure and collect enough from them in the first installment.

but seriously, fees appear to be on the squeeze and from I hear the level of service seems to reflect the fee in some cases. We have been under cut significantly on a few jobs recently, in taking jobs from planning to construction stage and I am lead to believe that the service provided by the "winning" consultant reflected their price. In one case the "tender" drawings were a few notes copy and pasted on the planning drawings with no detailed specification, bill of quantities or even detail drawings.

As for pricing at the moment, we look at all factors, including the client/the job/the time scale and the level of service to be provided adjusting accordingly. Promptness of payment is another factor which is influencing the fee

smashey

Any nixers I do, I agree the fees and always collect them before the application is lodged. If they don't pay, it doesn't get lodged.

topcatcbr

smashey wrote: »

Any nixers I do, I agree the fees and always collect them before the application is lodged. If they don't pay, it doesn't get lodged.

Ditto.

muffler

I do that with every job.

Mellor

I'm going to start doing that.
Far too trusting, luckily was never burned

Poor Uncle Tom

Mellor wrote: »

..luckily was never burned

You are lucky, we are doing that too, but only with the last year. Had to take two guys to court for payment, not nice at all.

No6

I do that all the time too and it works fine with the ones who go ahead, I find its the ones who stall that it can be tricky to get paid anything for. Fee agreements should be in writing with the various stages priced so you can charge for work done even if the project stalls, which a lot of them are doing at the moment!!

muffler

What about getting payment from solicitors?

smashey

muffler wrote: »

What about getting payment from solicitors?

Just take all their cheques and put them in a high interest account for two months

Oh wait, that's what they do.

sydthebeat

muffler wrote: »

What about getting payment from solicitors?

sometimes it worth staying in with solicitors, even though payment is like pulling teeth.. the normally only fix up when a file is closed... some payments can take years to cme in.. therefore charge accordingly....

i can honestly say, without question, that without solicitor work we would have finished up weeks ago... its only in times of recession that people are very very focused on what they are buying / selling

DvB

smashey wrote: »

Any nixers I do, I agree the fees and always collect them before the application is lodged. If they don't pay, it doesn't get lodged.

Absolutely.

Had one guy upon lodging a planning application for a house extension (a long time ago now mind) refuse to pay up unless the thing was granted permission, he said to me at the time that he knew it was a cash in hand nixer so i could hardly go taking it further or he'd report me to the taxman, i promptly withdrew the application & awaited his phone call, although losing out on the £800 i was charging (yes that long ago) i took great pleasure in his reaction.

Once bitten, never again, cash up front to cover expenses, then remainder of payment before lodging a valid application, no messing.

No6

One of the joy's of the planning system is that they almost always look for additional information, I used to invoice on submission but after waiting two months for payment it would usually arrive shortly after the additional info letter. I now charge prior to lodgement which works a lot better 99% of the time!!! I will have to seriously consider getting a deposit to cover expenses and a bit of preliminary legwork in case it goes dead!!!

RKQ

Sad days indeed No.6.... I agree if its in the paper they have almost two weeks to pay ( its taken weeks / months of intense discussions and sketch designs... so they know an invoice is due). Wish I always listened to my own advice.....

I considered a deposit system - but it throws up "cash up front" scenario which smells abit of the Cowboy builder.

A profession doesn't unfortunately seek a deposit - dentist, doctor (thought some Solicitors may ask for few hundred for court costs to proceed with a bad debt after initial meetings).

As things tighten it may be time to reconsider all methods of ensuring fair payment.... what would be a fair deposit?
10%, 25% or 50%???

No6

RKQ wrote: »

I considered a deposit system - but it throws up "cash up front" scenario which smells abit of the Cowboy builder.

It also throws up the issue of "well havn't I paid you!!!" and "what do you mean that was only the deposit!!??" from the cowboy client!! and they would also expect instant results. So thats why I've resisted deposits so far.

RKQ

Thats a fair point. We have all met the cowboy client or at least the one that likes to barter. A deposit may become more and more of an issue as projects get put on hold.

Design is subjective, a finished drawing is a finished drawing - you don't see the years of training, the years of experience, the days of sketch designs and the hours of discussions and meetings. Not to mention the actual draughting time.

Agreed fees in writing prior to feasability, a signed Contract of Service and planning fee to be paid prior to lodgement of application.:)

DOCARCH

RKQ wrote: »

A profession doesn't unfortunately seek a deposit - dentist, doctor

but, you can't really get out the door without paying in full! I've yet to hear somebody syaing to their doctor.....give it a couple of weeks, if I'm better, I'll post you on a cheque!!!:)

muffler

DOCARCH wrote: »

but, you can't really get out the door without paying in full! I've yet to hear somebody syaing to their doctor.....give it a couple of weeks, if I'm better, I'll post you on a cheque!!!:)

Oh but this a completely different set up. Its not in and out in 10 minutes.

Most projects will take between 3 -12 weeks (before getting to planning stage) depending on the complexity of both the project and the client.