Aer Lingus at it again......

Voipjunkie

KerranJast wrote: »

IF baggage handlers are on €70k pa then that is crazy for a company in such a precarious industry. Everyone is entitled to a fair wage but paying that amount of money for relatively unskilled labour is not good business.

Again they don't earn that there is no way they earn that

The article said UPTO

That is the important word and it did not say how many people earned that much if any or how many hours they worked to earn that much nor did it mention that transport workers such as baggage handlers are exempt from the protection of the working time act.

Someone on the average industrial wage can easily get up to that kind of figure if they are working days off and overtime.

It is typical spin they don't employ enough people get the people they do employ to work ridicolous hours to get the job done and then criticise them for earning too much.


Its half truths and lies and typical of the anti union bias that papers like the Sunday times peddle

Climate Expert

grahamo wrote: »

Why is everyone blaming the Workers rather than the Aer Lingus bosses? I think the workers have been pushed and pushed by the bosses and finally they've decided to stand up for themselves.
I bet most of the people complaining are younger workers who are accustomed to good working conditions won for them by union members from an older generation.
The Fatcats have done a great job of brainwashing most of you lot.

Working conditions for any young person in the private sector is very tough. My friends mostly work on average salarys less than 30K, bare minimum holidays, no overtime and quite a few have been laid off.

Thats the reality and it keeps us on our toes.
Staff in Aer Lingus have bullied the govt. and previous managements into paying them too much for their cushy little jobs. Five staff members doing the work of one.

grahamo

Climate Expert wrote: »

Working conditions for any young person in the private sector is very tough. My friends mostly work on average salarys less than 30K, bare minimum holidays, no overtime and quite a few have been laid off.

Thats the reality and it keeps us on our toes.
Staff in Aer Lingus have bullied the govt. and previous managements into paying them too much for their cushy little jobs. Five staff members doing the work of one.

Conditions are tough everywhere but if employers had their way they would bring back 19th century working conditions and have us all tugging our forelocks when they passed by.

Their might be a recession on but why should workers have to give up what little they have while fat cat bosses earning massive bonuses on top of massive salaries lose nothing.

poppysquirrel

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I don't think that's true.

YES it is true. They have been getting 8% annual pay increases, it is one of the terms outlined by aer lingus as something that has to be stopped. Also reported in todays examiner.
I have NO sympathy for Aer Lingus workers, i mean, no one likes to hear about job losses, but taking everyine else down with them is another thing. The unions have kept their asses in jobs for too long now. I'm sure if you look across any other airline, you will see huge amounts of redundancies made due to economic slowdown, with the Travel and TOurism sector being a primary target.

Yes I can be bitter, I have worked hard and saved to afford my December flights, and for what?? so they can threaten their "annual strike" so they can demand more money? I think Aer Lingus should go ahead and make them all redundant and press ahead with new plans to outsourse asap and have the new less demanding workers in place ready to work for when the EX-Aerlingus staff are due to strike!

maggy_thatcher

Does anybody have a reference to the sunday times article? I tried searching for it to see precisely how they put it, but the only matches I could find were to other discussion sites commenting on how absurd that kind of money is. Neither timesonline.co.uk, nor irishtimes.com seemed to show anything meaningful on the subject. The other sites even suggested it was 'average' of €70K, which I somehow doubt.

Climate Expert

grahamo wrote: »

Conditions are tough everywhere but if employers had their way they would bring back 19th century working conditions and have us all tugging our forelocks when they passed by.

Their might be a recession on but why should workers have to give up what little they have while fat cat bosses earning massive bonuses on top of massive salaries lose nothing.

We have employment law to cover all that. Unions are redundant.

Employment law does not state that you have to employ x amount of people or pay them y amounts of money.

ixoy

grahamo wrote: »

Why is everyone blaming the Workers rather than the Aer Lingus bosses? I think the workers have been pushed and pushed by the bosses and finally they've decided to stand up for themselves.

You're acting like the Aer Lingus workers are in a situation akin to sweat shops - they're not. They've been very good pay rises, been offered a good redundancy package (which we've been told many are interested in).

I bet most of the people complaining are younger workers who are accustomed to good working conditions won for them by union members from an older generation.
The Fatcats have done a great job of brainwashing most of you lot.

Any reason we should trust the union mouthpiece more? We could equally accuse the unions of having done a great job of brainwashing you. Also care to offer a solution to their financial woes if they can't save the 50m from these job cuts?

Voipjunkie

ixoy wrote: »

. Also care to offer a solution to their financial woes if they can't save the 50m from these job cuts?

What finacial woes ?

The one and only reason for the finacial difficulties is the price of oil

Their revenues are up
Their passenger numbers are up.
The ancillary revenue from passengers is up.

They have nearly €800 million in cash in the bank.

And the price of oil today is $56.40 that is nearly a third of what it was and is below the price of oil when Aerlingus made a €90 million profit in 2007.

The current forecast for average oil price for the next 12 months is $65 which is also below the 2007 figure

So any subjective analysis would say they made a small €20million loss for 2008 when oil prices spiked those prices have receded and the outloook is that they will stay there.

There is no woes

Aer Lingus will make a large profit next year without any cuts and they are using the spike in oil prices to justify an attack on their own employees end of story

CDfm

aer lingus is the pits

Voipjunkie

CDfm wrote: »

aer lingus is the pits

On what basis do you say that

Because the evidence from their own accounts does not support that at all

They had a difficult year this year but that is solely because of the spike in oil prices and everyone including M O'L had a bad year in fact the slump at ryanair due to the arrogance of M O'L in refusing to hedge oil led to an even more spectacular slump from 481 million in profits to a break even.

ongarite

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Their revenues are up
Their passenger numbers are up.
The ancillary revenue from passengers is up.

They have nearly €800 million in cash in the bank.

I would imagine they hope to spend the €800 million from the share floatation on new planes especially on Transatlantic.
Their long-haul planes are the oldest and worst planes and level of service I have ever had the displeasure to travel with.

Bluetonic

ALFIET wrote: »

The Sunday Times noted that baggage handlers in Aer Lingus could be on 70k.

Have you any proof baggage handlers are on 70k? Why quote it if not.

All we hear on this thread is people talking out of their pockets....

God help us all.

Bluetonic

Voipjunkie wrote: »

On what basis do you say that

Because the evidence from their own accounts does not support that at all

They had a difficult year this year but that is solely because of the spike in oil prices and everyone including M O'L had a bad year in fact the slump at ryanair due to the arrogance of M O'L in refusing to hedge oil led to an even more spectacular slump from 481 million in profits to a break even.

What a load of rubbish.

Ryanair made massive profits in 08.

"....to a break even" :rolleyes:

Voipjunkie

Bluetonic wrote: »

What a load of rubbish.

Ryanair made massive profits in 08.

"....to a break even" :rolleyes:

Actually Ryanairs half year Profits were down 47% and as of 3/11/2008

As a result our previous guidance remains unchanged and we remain confident that we will break even for the full year.

we expect to record a full year result of between break even and a loss of €60m.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=08&month=jul&story=reg-en-280708


now maybe I should include a rolleyes especially since you were the one that accused people of talking out of their pockets


The point is everyone had a bad 2008 because of the price of oil but Aer Lingus are not on the brink of ruin.

And people here saying that they will go to the wall if they don't get rid of their baggage handlers does not stand up to scrutiny

FlutterinBantam

Lot of uninformed crap on this thread.

Bottom line.

Aer Lingus are a low fares airline, to make money as a low fares airline they need to keep the unit costs low.Passengers have voted with their arses(on seats) that they want the low fares model.
They are not doing that in the current climate,work practices/gradings,are totally out of line with the low fares model.

Therefore they HAVE to change to survive.Not today,not this year,into the future

When will people begin to realise this

Voipjunkie

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Lot of uninformed crap on this thread.

Bottom line.

Aer Lingus are a low fares airline, to make money as a low fares airline they need to keep the unit costs low.Passengers have voted with their arses(on seats) that they want the low fares model.
They are not doing that in the current climate,work practices/gradings,are totally out of line with the low fares model.

Therefore they HAVE to change to survive.Not today,not this year,into the future

When will people begin to realise this

I don't think they have to slavishly follow the Ryan air model I think a lot of people want low fares without being treated like a piece of **** they just stepped in.
I think you have to be close enough to Ryanair price wise but you don't have to match them or beat them
people will pay a little extra not to be treated like crap and to land at an airport that is not a 2 hour train journey from where you want to go.

Aer Lingus passenger numbers are up as are their revenues

Ever increasing profit cannot justify everything

BTW if you agree that the airline is not under any threat then why the false deadline of the 1st of next month why walk out of Labour court talks.
The management of this company seem to have a gung ho attitude to industrial relations and that and ONLY that will be responsible for any loss of service due to industrial action

bladeruner

Climate Expert wrote: »

We have employment law to cover all that. Unions are redundant.

why yes , we dont have companies like Ryanair running completly roughshod over every employment law in this country and every other european country.

Employment law is a sad joke in Ireland and any employer with a few quid can fob off indefinetly any attempt to right a wrong.

I do think though that some unions are living in the 60's but some are more necessary then they ever were.

In any case , in reply to some of the posters above , you cant believe much of what you read in the newspapers so I would ask for proof before quoting what passes for Irish " journalism " as fact.

ixoy

Back to more pertinent topics:

Anyone have any idea what form this strike action will take? Will it begin with something like a 3-4 hour stoppage and then begin escalating each day? I'd like to know how my flight might be affected so I can begin making alternate plans.

CDfm

the threat of strike action alone threatens the business at its most profitable time of year

the unions actions are like a turkey voting for xmas

aer lingus market dominance is gone - without changes etc its only a matter of time before its swallowed up

RyanAir is now the National Airline

Red Sleeping Beauty

ixoy wrote: »

Back to more pertinent topics:

Anyone have any idea what form this strike action will take? Will it begin with something like a 3-4 hour stoppage and then begin escalating each day? I'd like to know how my flight might be affected so I can begin making alternate plans.

I'm not being arrogant but have you rung them ? If I had a flight planned/booked/paid for in the near I'd be onto them asap. Last year around August they had a planned strike (that was eventually called off) but my family had their flights changed.

If they don't have a phone line set up to deal with this then shame on Aer Lingus. That is, Aer Lingus management, not their staff.

CDfm wrote: »

RyanAir is now the National Airline

No.

Voipjunkie

CDfm wrote: »

the threat of strike action alone threatens the business at its most profitable time of year

the unions actions are like a turkey voting for xmas

aer lingus market dominance is gone - without changes etc its only a matter of time before its swallowed up

RyanAir is now the National Airline

And voting to lose your job is like what exactly?

If the company are prepared to **** over the people working for them why should they care if it hurts the business.

At the end of the day it is the baggage handlers and catering now once they get that they will be back for the next group next year.

And there is no national airline we have 2 private companies who sole motivation is profit if that means ****ting on the people of Shannon their own workforce or anyone else then that is exactly what they will do.

CDfm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

If they don't have a phone line set up to deal with this then shame on Aer Lingus. That is, Aer Lingus management, not their staff.



No.

Aer Lingus is always in the news with problems and stoppages - the staff and management always argue- its both of em

RyanAir is very positive and upbeat. My neighbors work for RyanAir and are very proud of it.RyanAir brought cheper flights to everyone and egaliterian air travel to Ireland in a way EL never did.

RyanAir is the national airline -its proven it.

Red Sleeping Beauty

CDfm wrote: »

RyanAir is the national airline -its proven it.

Are you 4real ?

CDfm

Voipjunkie wrote: »

And voting to lose your job is like what exactly?

If the company are prepared to **** over the people working for them why should they care if it hurts the business.

At the end of the day it is the baggage handlers and catering now once they get that they will be back for the next group next year.

And there is no national airline we have 2 private companies who sole motivation is profit if that means ****ting on the people of Shannon their own workforce or anyone else then that is exactly what they will do.

the workers took huge salaries etc for years and benefited - air travel was kept outside everyones reach.

Then RyanAir came and made it possible.

Aer Lingus is still arguing about the same work practices that got it in the doodoo years back.It seems to me its only a matter only time before its gone and its assets sold off.

So its not about what the argument is about but how long it will exist before its sold of or dismembered.It seemsa to have already started.

CDfm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Are you 4real ?

YUp- you may not like what I say. The reason why the Aer Lingus dispute is largely irrevelant is that people have lots of alternatives.

Its inconvenient but largely irrelevant except to the parties involved. EL is just another troubled airline.

ixoy

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I'm not being arrogant but have you rung them ? If I had a flight planned/booked/paid for in the near I'd be onto them asap. Last year around August they had a planned strike (that was eventually called off) but my family had their flights changed.

I don't want to have to pay to have my flight changed when the only reason it has to be changed is a dispute outside my control. I know previously AL said people travelling on dates affected by proposed strikes could change for free but there's no mention of that anywhere yet. I'd like to see the result of the LRC talks before I pay out of my pocket for other people's issues.

If they don't have a phone line set up to deal with this then shame on Aer Lingus. That is, Aer Lingus management, not their staff.

I'll agree with you on this - they should have some form of communication or notice on their site. Instead there's nothing and they're still perfectly willing to take bookings on the days for when strike notice has been served. Some form of warning or advisory notice should be put up - management mightn't want to validate the would-be strikers but that shouldn't be at the expense of potential customers.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ixoy wrote: »

I don't want to have to pay to have my flight changed when the only reason it has to be changed is a dispute outside my control. I know previously AL said people travelling on dates affected by proposed strikes could change for free but there's no mention of that anywhere yet. I'd like to see the result of the LRC talks before I pay out of my pocket for other people's issues.


I'll agree with you on this - they should have some form of communication or notice on their site. Instead there's nothing and they're still perfectly willing to take bookings on the days for when strike notice has been served. Some form of warning or advisory notice should be put up - management mightn't want to validate the would-be strikers but that shouldn't be at the expense of potential customers.

Well last year around August they had a strike planned and it got very close to the date until it was called off. Everyone's flight was changed if I remember correctly. My family's was anyway. I'd say it'd be a good idea just to ring up and say what's the story. They have to have some sort of procedure in place.

FlutterinBantam

No they don't.

Let's get is straight, nobody, but nobody,at this point in time knows what is going to happen.

It will all be reactive,I can guarantee you that.

Wait till the NIB report back tomorrow Mon.

then you MIGHT have an idea of the scenario

Red Sleeping Beauty

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No they don't.

Let's get is straight, nobody, but nobody,at this point in time knows what is going to happen.

It will all be reactive,I can guarantee you that.

Wait till the NIB report back tomorrow Mon.

then you MIGHT have an idea of the scenario

I'm confused, what are you talking about ?

I said that they would haev to have some sort of procedure in place with regards handling complaints and timetable changes and flight changes. If they don't then management are more clueless than I first thought!

CDfm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Well last year around August they had a strike planned and it got very close to the date until it was called off. Everyone's flight was changed if I remember correctly. My family's was anyway. I'd say it'd be a good idea just to ring up and say what's the story. They have to have some sort of procedure in place.

So last year there was a proposed strike.

People changed to alternative carriers and may have liked them.So now its happening all over again and customers are being driven elsewhere again.

So this is benefiting whom exactly?

mickoneill30

CDfm wrote: »

So this is benefiting whom exactly?

The competition.

Voipjunkie

CDfm wrote: »

the workers took huge salaries etc for years and benefited - air travel was kept outside everyones reach.

Then RyanAir came and made it possible.

Aer Lingus is still arguing about the same work practices that got it in the doodoo years back.It seems to me its only a matter only time before its gone and its assets sold off.

So its not about what the argument is about but how long it will exist before its sold of or dismembered.It seemsa to have already started.

And your proof that workers in Aer Lingus took HUGE salaries is ?

http://www.allbusiness.com/operations/shipping-air-freight/644105-1.html

That report dating back to 2000 states that Aer Lingus cabin crew were paid 45% LESS than cabin crew in the one world alliance

http://www.rte.ie/news/2001/0123/aerlingus.html

A report from 2001 on a labour court ruling dealing with LOW pay in Aer Lingus


So now could you provide some proof of the HUGE salaries

what these salaries were? when they were paid? what were they in comparison to similar companies or indeed the average industrial wage at the time.?

CDfm

Voipjunkie wrote: »

And your proof that workers in Aer Lingus took HUGE salaries is ?

http://www.allbusiness.com/operations/shipping-air-freight/644105-1.html

That report dating back to 2000 states that Aer Lingus cabin crew were paid 45% LESS than cabin crew in the one world alliance

http://www.rte.ie/news/2001/0123/aerlingus.html

A report from 2001 on a labour court ruling dealing with LOW pay in Aer Lingus


So now could you provide some proof of the HUGE salaries

what these salaries were? when they were paid? what were they in comparison to similar companies or indeed the average industrial wage at the time.?

i am not the journo that wrote the sunday times article

its fairly irrelevant what happened in the past now isnt it- its just aer lingus having yet another hissy fit.

aer lingus is not as liked or likeable as some make out - no one really cares about it. ffs it owned the great southern hotels in prime areas which rarely if ever made a profit.

but if you think about it - as the national aerline it should have had the low fare model for ever. it didnt. its not an institution thats held in great affection by the public.no one outside aer lingus would care if it disappeared.

thats just the way it is.

FlutterinBantam

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I'm confused, what are you talking about ?

I said that they would haev to have some sort of procedure in place with regards handling complaints and timetable changes and flight changes. If they don't then management are more clueless than I first thought!

Sorry, what I meant really is that EI will assume all is normal until(ie normal rules apply) until such time as a strike is called or a stoppage happens.

Then they will react to that,if and when it happens.

They mayhave a plan if a strike happens,but as of now it's normal operating procedures as far as they are concerned.

I see SIPTU have a counter proposal regarding buy out of conditions from the staff and working under reduced salaries and conditions but retaining jobs with the airline.
This could have some legs, depending on Mgmnts determination to outsource or not.

CDfm

But what it really means is that the debate/negotiations is being carried out in public.
In the meanwhile those who have booked flights are stuck - those who havent are booking with the competition.

What it really means is those who can will book anywhere but with Aer Lingus.

Its seems to be a very old fashioned union PR stunt by the unions to get public support. But the public really only care about their holidays.But without the safety net of Government ownership its a bit dated.

I think RyanAir just got an unexpected boost in profits. Christmas came early for Michael O'Leary - who knows he might even conclude the purchase- in a depressed stock market.

ALFIET

well expressed CDfm

It is a very shortsighted measure by the union if they believe that this stunt will gain them a majority in public support.:p

Of course it will gain momentum with some of the proletariat but the ordinary joe soap really does just want to go on their hols or have family members return home for xmas esp those that they have not seen in ages.:mad:

I just want to see my mam. If a strike stops this from happening, God help the unions!

Hydrosylator

I'm supposed to be going to Frankfurt for a long weekend with my mates on the last weekend of this month, crossing into next month. It looks like it might not happen if this strike goes ahead.

That said, I support the strike. Aer Lingus have been cutting back on staff, continuously, for years now, before during after the boom years. Laying off over a thousand workers in the run-up to christmas will affect us all negatively. Certainly they'd have a few quid in their pocket to start with, but the balance of the job market is already greatly weighed against the job-seeker, which lots of my friends and family are right now.

Whether the bosses in Aer Lingus like it or not, their staff ARE unionised, and they CAN call the shots every once in a while. I'm not saying they're all saints, but the fact is Aer Lingus want to let all these people go in the middle of a recession, when they have the money to weather the storm. Consumer confidence is certainly among the biggest causes of reductions in people taking flights at the moment. What would laying off 1500 people before christmas do to consumer confidence?

Of course, it's true that low-fares is a tricky thing to pull off. I just booked a flight to Spain today, and I was willing to pay a little extra, as I usuallly am, to fly with Aer Lingus rather than Ryanair. Reasons include nicer planes, whiskey doesn't come in plastic bags and Michael O Leary. In the end I went with Ryanair, because it was eighty quid cheaper. Ten or twenty I could live with, but I'd miss that 80 quid. However, in doing so, I must be aware that I'm participating in a race to the bottom, where all the cost-cutting is done in the area of service, meaning staff.

I don't know where all this will lead. It seems that Aer Lingus will have to either significantly change it's approach to staff, or collapse. It might collapse anyway. I won't cry for Aer Lingus if that does happen, at the end of the day, they're on the stock market, so I can't call them an irish company , not with a straight face.

The thing is, who would be blame, the bosses, the staff or the customers? We all have our own answers, but the fact is, if we all care about in a service is how cheap we can get it, and that continues for years, as it has done, something has to give sometime.

As far as I can tell, the way airlines are run at the moment isn't sustainable, and the people in charge know this. Like some bankers and property developers, all they know is they can make a ****load of money in the short term, and as long as they can get out the door before their arse catches fire, it doesn't really matter if all goes down in a ball of flames.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Good post there. Thanks for being level headed, some other posters can't seem to see past their wallet.

I've not flown with Ryanair since 1998 and I never want to provided there's an alternative. It's maybe an extra 20euro for fly Aer Lingus and not have nasty charges added on afterwards, you get a smile from the staff, you're not treated like a piece of rubbish et cetera et cetera.

I prefer the service Aer Lingus offer and I don't trust Ryanair. Aer Lingus are using this "tough times" shenanigans as a smoke screen to further their agenda.

maggy_thatcher

A strike should always be the last possible avenue of attack -- it helps nobody except your competitors -- look at the last Boeing strike that lasted a month. Boeing were out of pocket around $1 billion dollars. The staff lost almost a months wages, and the 787 is now delayed into next year. The only people who gained from it was Airbus, who can now narrow the gap between the B787 and A350 EIS dates. Even the threat of a strike stops incoming revenue into an organization, resulting in further cuts, acting as a postive feedback loop.

The other issue is that it harms your fellow workers -- not everybody is in favour of a strike -- but they are restricted from working (though I suppose they could stand up for themselves and leave the union).

Hydrosylator

From RTE: http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1117/aerlingus.html

While sources on all sides are tight-lipped given the tension surrounding the risk of industrial action from Monday, it is understood the draft proposals would involve an effective buyout of existing terms and conditions.

While some staff might take redundancy or early retirement, those that stay would continue to be directly employed by Aer Lingus, albeit on lower pay and conditions.

Sounds like a compromise is on the way, hopefully. We'll have to wait a bit longer to hear anything official.

Climate Expert

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Good post there. Thanks for being level headed, some other posters can't seem to see past their wallet.

I've not flown with Ryanair since 1998 and I never want to provided there's an alternative. It's maybe an extra 20euro for fly Aer Lingus and not have nasty charges added on afterwards, you get a smile from the staff, you're not treated like a piece of rubbish et cetera et cetera.

I prefer the service Aer Lingus offer and I don't trust Ryanair. Aer Lingus are using this "tough times" shenanigans as a smoke screen to further their agenda.

Ryanair are not just a better airline because they are cheaper, they are better full stop. I've found both airlines staff to be equally courteous. Aicract fitouts are on par for each other. Ryanair have a better punctuality record.

maggy_thatcher

Climate Expert wrote: »

Ryanair are not just a better airline because they are cheaper, they are better full stop. I've found both airlines staff to be equally courteous. Aicract fitouts are on par for each other. Ryanair have a better punctuality record.

And bmi are better than them both
It's just a shame they are only on the DUB-LHR route

Hydrosylator

Climate Expert wrote: »

Ryanair are not just a better airline because they are cheaper, they are better full stop. I've found both airlines staff to be equally courteous. Aircraft fitouts are on par for each other. Ryanair have a better punctuality record.

Is it not true that Ryanair routinely exaggerate expected flying times so that they always appear to more punctual? I don't have the figures at hand, but a comparison of projected flying times between them and other airlines on the same routes would prove or disprove this.

Nobody's saying that Ryanair staff are habitually ignorant, but there are other parts of the service that make things less enjoyable. Take for example, the unreserved seating, which results in queues that would make my old school tuck shop look civilised.

With Aer Lingus, I can check in with my passport at a machine, without being charged five euro for checking in, and also take my pick of what seats are available. I've never had to queue for the machines either. Each to his own, but I feel that Aer Lingus have more respect for their customers.

Climate Expert

Check in online problem solved. Aerlingus' online check in is far more restrictive.

Why do you want reserved seating. It just adds to the cost and hassle for an airline.
Do you want a reserved seat when you get a bus or a train? Most Ryanair flights are less than two hours in duration.
Ryanairs punctuality records are the best in the world as well, its regularly reported.

maggy_thatcher

Climate Expert wrote: »

Check in online problem solved. Aerlingus' online check in is far more restrictive.

Why do you want reserved seating. It just adds to the cost and hassle for an airline.
Do you want a reserved seat when you get a bus or a train? Most Ryanair flights are less than two hours in duration.
Ryanairs punctuality records are the best in the world as well, its regularly reported.

We're kinda drifting off-topic here (IMHO), but the lack of reserved seating on Ryanair is a problem if you are a family with small children. Ryanair are one of the few airlines that don't pre-board families first. This means that if you have a small child you either (1) pay to be one of the first on board, (2) fight to get on quickly and hope that you can get seats beside each other or (3) leave your child unsupervised for the duration of the flight.

CDfm

Hydrosylator wrote: »

Is it not true that Ryanair routinely exaggerate expected flying times so that they always appear to more punctual? I don't have the figures at hand, but a comparison of projected flying times between them and other airlines on the same routes would prove or disprove this.

Nobody's saying that Ryanair staff are habitually ignorant, but there are other parts of the service that make things less enjoyable. Take for example, the unreserved seating, which results in queues that would make my old school tuck shop look civilised.

With Aer Lingus, I can check in with my passport at a machine, without being charged five euro for checking in, and also take my pick of what seats are available. I've never had to queue for the machines either. Each to his own, but I feel that Aer Lingus have more respect for their customers.

You are listening to a spin put out on it.RyanAir comes across as a success story and its Irish - Aer Lingus sounds like a car that is always breaking down. It looks good but it wont take you to the shops.

I think RyanAir have improved in all kinds of ways over the years.

The fact is - you are not going to pay extra for Aer Lingus.

You want to travel cheaply - thats what I do and I get away more.

Climate Expert

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

We're kinda drifting off-topic here (IMHO), but the lack of reserved seating on Ryanair is a problem if you are a family with small children. Ryanair are one of the few airlines that don't pre-board families first. This means that if you have a small child you either (1) pay to be one of the first on board, (2) fight to get on quickly and hope that you can get seats beside each other or (3) leave your child unsupervised for the duration of the flight.

Check in online and priority boarding is free.

ALFIET

This is more than just about a strike or outsourcing.

If a company is looking to be more cost effective, it is entitled to review the possibility of outsourcing roles. A lot of other companies have done the same and this will continue to be the trend.

A mngt team need to also review other cost effectiveness programmes and look for employee suggestions for same. Real savings can be found from the most unlikeliest of sources. Employee engagement should be sought to try to come up with other ways to save costs.

However having said all that even having gone through that I have personally had to follow an outsourcing programme which resulted in redundancies. It is never a nice option to take and never one which I have undertaken lightly no matter what time of the year it is.

As a member of the public however I do not want to see a strike affecting people in the run up to christmas regardless of the situation within AL. This may seem a very selfish point of view to take but you cant blame joe public for being concerned about his / her ability to fly with AL on booked flights during xmas.

My question is though should a strike happen - to what extent will it affect customers? Will long haul flights still go ahead?

Hydrosylator

Climate Expert wrote: »

Why do you want reserved seating. It just adds to the cost and hassle for an airline.

It's the airline that should have hassle, not me, especially not when I'm going on holidays. When I fly somewhere with my girlfriend, call me clingy, but I like to sit beside her. On Aer Lingus flights, we pick our seats on the way in, and chill out and hop on the plane at our leisure (within reason). It's nice, you can sit down, have a drink and read your magazine in departures while people are getting on, because you know you have two seats, side by side.

On Ryanair flights, some fecker ALWAYS starts the queue about half an hour before the doors even open, and at some point we have to bite the bullet and go and stand in a poxy queue, and then another queue starts coming form another direction, and there's absolutely no effort by the staff to try and organise anybody, because they're not told to, or they don't want to. When it comes down to it, part of Ryanairs punctuality is down to treating the seating with as much consideration and concern for passenger comfort as a school bus driver.

And then finally you get on the plane, and with a bit of luck, and a bit of ignorance you manage to get a seat next to your significant other. And it's wedge your knees against the seat time. Mmm, comfy.

Please explain why reserved seating costs more, and how much more it costs? Also, please explain how the fact that Ryanair stop letting you book online four and a half hours before a flight make sit less restrictive.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Hydrosylator wrote: »

Please explain why reserved seating costs more, and how much more it costs? Also, please explain how the fact that Ryanair stop letting you book online four and a half hours before a flight make sit less restrictive.

+1
Aer Lingus' website is very easy to use and there are no obstrusive ads or banners and the colours aren't harsh on the eyes. They also let you book in online up to 2hours before I think ? Ryanair do let you book in a few days before hand but I'm sure with time EI may change , atm you can check on online about 30hours before I think.