Aer Lingus at it again......

ALFIET

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Mmm there about to lose their jobs do you honestly think they give a **** about public opinion.

I would imagine they are probably more concerned about how they will keep a roof over there head and provide for their family than whether you think it is a convenient time for a strike.

i think the attractive redundancy terms with exaggerated ex gratia payments might allow most to weather the storm!

ALFIET

ALFIET wrote: »

i think the attractive redundancy terms with exaggerated ex gratia payments might allow most to weather the storm!

And anyway I am not going to be dragged into more discussions on the rights and wrongs of union v AL. I am not pro Union so will never agree with the union mentality.

My concern is not seeing my elderly mother if she cannot make it back to Ireland

My concern is for a friend whose fiance is in USA waiting for him and his family to arrive in Dec for their wedding..

My concern is for those people who are travelling to see sick relatives.

The legalities and the internal concerns of AL and its workers should not overflow into direct impact on its passengers.

CDfm

ALFIET wrote: »

And anyway I am not going to be dragged into more discussions on the rights and wrongs of union v AL. I am not pro Union so will never agree with the union mentality.

My concern is not seeing my elderly mother if she cannot make it back to Ireland

My concern is for a friend whose fiance is in USA waiting for him and his family to arrive in Dec for their wedding..

My concern is for those people who are travelling to see sick relatives.

The legalities and the internal concerns of AL and its workers should not overflow into direct impact on its passengers.

It shouldnt

And it shouldnt affect the passengers of other airlines or the livliehoods of workers of businesses unconnected with aer lingus.

But that is the threat - and we know that they have used such tactics to shut down the airport in the past.

MOH

Gobán Saor wrote: »

No, you didn't. You also paid a €5 per passenger, per flight segment "nasty charge" added afterwards for using your credit or debit card. (The charge is unavoidable unless you book with Visa Electron - a rare specimen indeed and not offered on the Irish market AFAIK)

So, total cost = €20.04 Still cheap, but 50000% more expensive than what Ryanair claim:rolleyes:

Really? Anything you'd like to tell me that I'm wrong about, o wise one? :rolleyes:
Would you please help me tie my shoelaces, since I'm obviously incapable of any basic tasks, such as telling how much a flight costs?

Since the flights were booked with a Visa Electron card, they did in fact cost me a grand total of 4 cents.

CDfm

ALFIET wrote: »

My concern is not seeing my elderly mother if she cannot make it back to Ireland

Lets hear it for ALFIETs mam.

If any action affects ALFIETs mam who has done no wrong here it must be condemned.

This time my mam wont be affected but has been in the past and has dodgy hips.

ixoy

And now we're five days away and still no word on what's happening. Meanwhile all the flights on the previous day are going up in price and I've no idea if I get to go home or not after my trip away. Pretending like nothing's happening to its passengers is bad public relations.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Perhaps Aer Lingus are confident that there won't be a strike ?

FlutterinBantam

ixoy wrote: »

And now we're five days away and still no word on what's happening. Meanwhile all the flights on the previous day are going up in price and I've no idea if I get to go home or not after my trip away. Pretending like nothing's happening to its passengers is bad public relations.

Look, it will be most likely there will be NO definite information right up to the get go.

That's the way these things work.

ixoy

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Look, it will be most likely there will be NO definite information right up to the get go.

That's the way these things work.

There were provisions made before for this - admittedly I'm not aware how close to the date it was but they did allow free flight changes. Surely it's negative from their point-of-view not to do anything to assuage customer's fears or to offer some sort of compromise?

FlutterinBantam

Of course it is,but the thing is, nobody, I say again,NOBODY knows.

Neither Unions or Mgnt know how things will pan out right now.

Nobody will make a move 'till the process has run it's course.

If the unions said there will definitelybe a strike on x date ,Aer lingus would take action,and allow changes without penalty(I'm sure)

If aer lingus said under no circumstances are we changing our plan, then the unions would respond.

neither of these scenarios is valid as of now is it??

So B.A.U. as they say.

Voipjunkie

CDfm wrote: »

Lets hear it for ALFIETs mam.

If any action affects ALFIETs mam who has done no wrong here it must be condemned.

This time my mam wont be affected but has been in the past and has dodgy hips.

Please try and talk sense ?

Voipjunkie

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Some of them are being offered 9 weeks per year of service. A lot of them have been there for 10+ years. That's two years of pay, tax free. That's a lot of time to go job hunting. Also, they are offering anybody who wants to stay a job, so nobody who doesn't want to will be losing their job.

Even if your figures are right

10 multiplied by 9 is 90

a year is 52 weeks so 2 multiplied by 52 is 104

thats just the basic maths

Then there is the fact that we are in a recession they already have a job so why should they spend the next 2 years job hunting


And under what terms and conditions will they be offered a Job seriously who after 10 years service when the company has 800 million sitting in the bank it is not in any financial difficulties would take less pay no pension and less holidays.

Wait I forgot about CDfms mothers hips on second thoughts **** them on the scrap heap someone has to think of the hips

FlutterinBantam

How often does one have to repeat.

This issue is not about "now". This issue is not about 800m in the bank.

This issue is about the future, down the road going forward five years from now,when cost base must be able to support a low fares model an cope with the inevitable oil price rises.

Aer Lingus cost base is way out of line with that model currently.

Look at it this way, how many BILLIONS has Ryanair in the bank??

A lot!! Yet why do you see O'Leary jumping up and down when a €10.00 travel tax is introduced.Why?? I'll tell you why,because he understands the low fares model and how a low cost base is fundamentel to survival.

Go figure that out people.

niallo27

9 weeks in the year, believe me they will not get 9 weeks in the year, no where near that, its true this was a handy number years ago but they have being taking away every benifit off them they can in the last few years.

The have made 10 years profit in a row and one bad year they want to get rid of all there staff. they may be offered a new job but it will be with no benifits and half there present salary, would you accept this.

Answer me this if you had a chance of saving your job by going on strike, would you do it or would you give up your fight for your job so some bloke can see his girlfriend who is probaly cheating on him anyway its been so long since they saw each other

maggy_thatcher

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Even if your figures are right

10 multiplied by 9 is 90

a year is 52 weeks so 2 multiplied by 52 is 104

thats just the basic maths

Then there is the fact that we are in a recession they already have a job so why should they spend the next 2 years job hunting


And under what terms and conditions will they be offered a Job seriously who after 10 years service when the company has 800 million sitting in the bank it is not in any financial difficulties would take less pay no pension and less holidays.

Wait I forgot about CDfms mothers hips on second thoughts **** them on the scrap heap someone has to think of the hips

Okay - a lot of people have been working there for more than 11.5 years -- there's your 2 years pay. Secondly - a lot of that is tax free (I know not all of it, but still a significant amount of it is) -- that works out at substantially more than that.

Also - as was already pointed out - in order to survive, they need to reduce their costs significantly. Without redundancies or adversely changing the terms and conditions of any staff, please give a method of allowing Aer Lingus stay alive and profitable for more than 2 years. Selling assets would be a short-term solution that would then mean you'd be coming back to the same place this time next year with revenues falling even lower.

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Okay - a lot of people have been working there for more than 11.5 years -- there's your 2 years pay. Secondly - a lot of that is tax free (I know not all of it, but still a significant amount of it is) -- that works out at substantially more than that.

Also - as was already pointed out - in order to survive, they need to reduce their costs significantly. Without redundancies or adversely changing the terms and conditions of any staff, please give a method of allowing Aer Lingus stay alive and profitable for more than 2 years. Selling assets would be a short-term solution that would then mean you'd be coming back to the same place this time next year with revenues falling even lower.

Yes but do you not think axing 1500 jobs and replacing them with minimum wage people who mostly will be foreign is a bit extreme

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes but do you not think axing 1500 jobs and replacing them with minimum wage people who mostly will be foreign is a bit extreme

Who said anything about replacing them with minimum wage people (the fact that they are foreign is neither here nor there, unless you are a racist)?
The fact is - they are offering voluntary redundancies. If you don't want to take them, don't take them. You'll still have a job to come back to. When they get to the stage of mandatory redundancies, then start complaining, but they haven't reached that stage yet.

ALFIET

niallo27 wrote: »

9 weeks in the year, believe me they will not get 9 weeks in the year, no where near that, its true this was a handy number years ago but they have being taking away every benifit off them they can in the last few years.

The have made 10 years profit in a row and one bad year they want to get rid of all there staff. they may be offered a new job but it will be with no benifits and half there present salary, would you accept this.

Answer me this if you had a chance of saving your job by going on strike, would you do it or would you give up your fight for your job so some bloke can see his girlfriend who is probaly cheating on him anyway its been so long since they saw each other

I would not like to lose my job but i would never strike against the loss of it. I would accept it, take my package and move on. I am sure there is a precedent on the terms which will be honoured based on previous redundancies. I certainly would blacken my name with any future employer by striking regardless of the rights or wrongs of it and I would also certainly consider the bigger impact of my actions on the irish public. I am sure none of the AL staff would care one jot if i was told in the morning i was being made redundant. I would just have to get up and face into the jobs market, and try to compete for any suitable vacancies.

Regardless of a strike, it will not stop a management decision from being enacted in some form at some point in time. Therefore I would want to ensure I was focussing on getting mngt to ensure a reskilling programme or up skilling programme to ensure my cv was more marketable. I would prefer that than to strike over the inevitable. This to me would help me more in terms of finding a new job. I would also want to ensure that there was an agreement with mngt that if I was successful in gaining alternative employment with another company that i could still leave with my redundancy cheque.

But then this is a personal matter of choosing how you approach situations like this, and everyone of us is different. But I for sure would NOT strike.

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Who said anything about replacing them with minimum wage people (the fact that they are foreign is neither here nor there, unless you are a racist)?
The fact is - they are offering voluntary redundancies. If you don't want to take them, don't take them. You'll still have a job to come back to. When they get to the stage of mandatory redundancies, then start complaining, but they haven't reached that stage yet.

Do you not know why they are striking they have being offering voluntary redundancies for the last 6 years and i have know many people that have taken them, they want to outsource 1500 jobs no im not racist but i would prefer have someone who can understand me when im checking in.

they want to outsource their jobs and offer them minimum wage if they wish to take their old jobs back

L1011

niallo27 wrote: »

Do you not know why they are striking they have being offering voluntary redundancies for the last 6 years and i have know many people that have taken them, they want to outsource 1500 jobs no im not racist but i would prefer have someone who can understand me when im checking in.

they want to outsource their jobs and offer them minimum wage if they wish to take their old jobs back

What makes an outsourcer employing people in Ireland any more likely to hire people with poor English than Aer Lingus employing people in Ireland? Same labour market.

niallo27

ALFIET wrote: »

I would not like to lose my job but i would never strike against the loss of it. I would accept it, take my package and move on. I am sure there is a precedent on the terms which will be honoured based on previous redundancies. I certainly would blacken my name with any future employer by striking regardless of the rights or wrongs of it and I would also certainly consider the bigger impact of my actions on the irish public. I am sure none of the AL staff would care one jot if i was told in the morning i was being made redundant. I would just have to get up and face into the jobs market, and try to compete for any suitable vacancies.

Regardless of a strike, it will not stop a management decision from being enacted in some form at some point in time. Therefore I would want to ensure I was focussing on getting mngt to ensure a reskilling programme or up skilling programme to ensure my cv was more marketable. I would prefer that than to strike over the inevitable. This to me would help me more in terms of finding a new job. I would also want to ensure that there was an agreement with mngt that if I was successful in gaining alternative employment with another company that i could still leave with my redundancy cheque.

But then this is a personal matter of choosing how you approach situations like this, and everyone of us is different. But I for sure would NOT strike.

Well if you would prefer to be out of work and keep the irish public happy thats your decision, this strike will work, it will scare mngt into backing down

niallo27

MYOB wrote: »

What makes an outsourcer employing people in Ireland any more likely to hire people with poor English than Aer Lingus employing people in Ireland? Same labour market.

Take a look anywhere around today and tell me if you see many irish people working minimum wage jobs

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

Do you not know why they are striking they have being offering voluntary redundancies for the last 6 years and i have know many people that have taken them, they want to outsource 1500 jobs no im not racist but i would prefer have someone who can understand me when im checking in.

they want to outsource their jobs and offer them minimum wage if they wish to take their old jobs back

If you are in one of the outsourced groups, you have two choices. Take the redundancy pay and work somewhere else (which could include the outsourcing outfit), or don't take the redundancy pay, and transfer to a different area of the company. Personally, I'd take the redundancy cheque, use it to train into a less volatile area and move on with my life. But then I'm not out to screw with the general public.

Also - who said anything about minimum wage? That would be up to the outsourcing company to decide what to pay, and while you'll find that some low-skill jobs may be minimum wage, most aren't. Look at Aviance as an example - they would be a prime candidate for who to outsource ground-staff to - they aren't minimum wage workers.

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

If you are in one of the outsourced groups, you have two choices. Take the redundancy pay and work somewhere else (which could include the outsourcing outfit), or don't take the redundancy pay, and transfer to a different area of the company. Personally, I'd take the redundancy cheque, use it to train into a less volatile area and move on with my life. But then I'm not out to screw with the general public.

Also - who said anything about minimum wage? That would be up to the outsourcing company to decide what to pay, and while you'll find that some low-skill jobs may be minimum wage, most aren't. Look at Aviance as an example - they would be a prime candidate for who to outsource ground-staff to - they aren't minimum wage workers.

But what if your happy in the job your doing at the moment and your pissed off your company is trying to screw you after one bad year,
and if they are not going to slash the wages the what is the point of doing this in the first place, plus they will be using US cabin crew for their flights more jobs leaving the country

CDfm

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Please try and talk sense ?

I think you want to ignore this.

Its not all business people and students traveling.

You have the elderly and the infirm - this affects those disproportionalily -not only inconvenience but physically and healthwise.

I think most other people get my point.

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

But what if your happy in the job your doing at the moment and your pissed off your company is trying to screw you after one bad year,
and if they are not going to slash the wages the what is the point of doing this in the first place, plus they will be using US cabin crew for their flights more jobs leaving the country

If you were pissed off at your company, would you really want to stay there? And I didn't say they weren't going to slash the wages, I said they would be paying the outsourcing company €X, and allowing the outsourcing company to pay €Y to its staff. This company can probably scale better as it handles more than one airline, which will result in fewer people doing the work, saving costs while still allowing the staff to have a decent wage.
Yes - this will mean some people will be out of a job - but that's inevitable.

As for "one bad year" - I think it would be more accurate to say the last couple of years were particularly good and now the pendulum is swinging back. EI have an outdated fleet that needs to be upgraded (lots of €€€), a ridiculously low staff to passenger ratio (at peak time around 300:1), rising costs, and increased competition. They'll go through that €200 million like there's no tomorrow.

ALFIET

niallo27 wrote: »

Well if you would prefer to be out of work and keep the irish public happy thats your decision, this strike will work, it will scare mngt into backing down

No strike would make any manager/ business owner i know back down... come on!! Quite the opposite in fact. And if AL management are scared that easily then wonders of wonders.

Noone prefers to be out of work. But sometimes bad things happen to good people. I would spend my time focussing on getting a new job rather than trying to hang on to a job which is going anyways. As I said earlier

I would now be more interested in confirming the actual terms of a package, whether package is being paid to those who leave earlier to take up other employment, details of alternative employment within AL, getting upskilled to improve my chances of getting a new job...

But as i said earlier in the rest of my message which has not been quoted, this is matter of personal choice.

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

If you were pissed off at your company, would you really want to stay there? And I didn't say they weren't going to slash the wages, I said they would be paying the outsourcing company €X, and allowing the outsourcing company to pay €Y to its staff. This company can probably scale better as it handles more than one airline, which will result in fewer people doing the work, saving costs while still allowing the staff to have a decent wage.
Yes - this will mean some people will be out of a job - but that's inevitable.

As for "one bad year" - I think it would be more accurate to say the last couple of years were particularly good and now the pendulum is swinging back. EI have an outdated fleet that needs to be upgraded (lots of €€€), a ridiculously low staff to passenger ratio (at peak time around 300:1), rising costs, and increased competition. They'll go through that €200 million like there's no tomorrow.

well i could argue all day with you, but you are failing to see the human side to this story, but i suppose that is the way our country is going, money grabbing pricks everywhere, well i hope you are never in the same situation as these people, a lot of them are unskilled and will find it hard to get good work and a years redundancy's money will not not last long these days. these people want to fight for their jobs and i will support them

niallo27

ALFIET wrote: »

No strike would make any manager/ business owner i know back down... come on!! Quite the opposite in fact. And if AL management are scared that easily then wonders of wonders.

Noone prefers to be out of work. But sometimes bad things happen to good people. I would spend my time focussing on getting a new job rather than trying to hang on to a job which is going anyways. As I said earlier

I would now be more interested in confirming the actual terms of a package, whether package is being paid to those who leave earlier to take up other employment, details of alternative employment within AL, getting upskilled to improve my chances of getting a new job...

But as i said earlier in the rest of my message which has not been quoted, this is matter of personal choice.

Well it has worked it has worked several times before when they tried to introduce measures that were extreme

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

well i could argue all day with you, but you are failing to see the human side to this story, but i suppose that is the way our country is going, money grabbing pricks everywhere, well i hope you are never in the same situation as these people, a lot of them are unskilled and will find it hard to get good work and a years redundancy's money will not not last long these days. these people want to fight for their jobs and i will support them

I am seeing the human side of the story -- the airline doesn't cut its costs down, goes to the wall. Now instead of 1,500 voluntary redundancies with a decent package, we have 3,000 mandatory layoffs potentially with no redundancy cheque at all (employees are one of the last on the creditor lists). Which would you prefer?

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

I am seeing the human side of the story -- the airline doesn't cut its costs down, goes to the wall. Now instead of 1,500 voluntary redundancies with a decent package, we have 3,000 mandatory layoffs potentially with no redundancy cheque at all (employees are one of the last on the creditor lists). Which would you prefer?

1,500 voluntary redundancies, do you not what voluntary redundancy means to aer lingus, it means take this package or work for half your wages for another company who will be in charge of outsourcing, do this sound voluntary to you

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

1,500 voluntary redundancies, do you not what voluntary redundancy means to aer lingus, it means take this package or work for half your wages for another company who will be in charge of outsourcing, do this sound voluntary to you

Does anybody have proof of the "half your wages" comment?

And for the sake of argument -- lets say you were EI management. How would you get the company through all this?

FlutterinBantam

Right niallo ... ball is in your court??

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Does anybody have proof of the "half your wages" comment?

And for the sake of argument -- lets say you were EI management. How would you get the company through all this?

Come on your not stupid, we all know what outsourcing means and what kind of wages that will be expected, well what i would do is issue compulsary redundancies do the older staff who are just waiting for their big pay check and believe me there is a lot of them, cut their work force and keep the younger staff, the price of oil is coming down, these are extreme measures by aer lingus

ALFIET

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Okay - a lot of people have been working there for more than 11.5 years -- there's your 2 years pay. Secondly - a lot of that is tax free (I know not all of it, but still a significant amount of it is) -- that works out at substantially more than that.

Also - as was already pointed out - in order to survive, they need to reduce their costs significantly. Without redundancies or adversely changing the terms and conditions of any staff, please give a method of allowing Aer Lingus stay alive and profitable for more than 2 years. Selling assets would be a short-term solution that would then mean you'd be coming back to the same place this time next year with revenues falling even lower.

Also there are different exemption rates applicable to redundancy payments and even top slicing relief which can be claimed back at the end of a tax year on tax that is paid on a redundancy payment.

ALFIET

niallo27 wrote: »

Come on your not stupid, we all know what outsourcing means and what kind of wages that will be expected, well what i would do is issue compulsary redundancies do the older staff who are just waiting for their big pay check and believe me there is a lot of them, cut their work force and keep the younger staff, the price of oil is coming down, these are extreme measures by aer lingus

Seriously outsourcing does not always mean cheaper wages...

We outsourced business within Munster and the wages and conditions being paid by the outsourced company are certainly not half of what we were paying and nowhere near that!!!!

I wonder did the American Multinationals experience this difficulty when they decided to expand operations and set up in Ireland and not America in the early 1990s.

ALFIET

niallo27 wrote: »

Well it has worked it has worked several times before when they tried to introduce measures that were extreme

In different economic climate it may work, but have you seen the news... redundancies left right and centre and a lot of those on the dole q's at the moment didnt receive anything near what the AL crew will get. AL have to act.

niallo27

ALFIET wrote: »

In different economic climate it may work, but have you seen the news... redundancies left right and centre and a lot of those on the dole q's at the moment didnt receive anything near what the AL crew will get. AL have to act.

it was last april and do you know for fact what package they recieved

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

Come on your not stupid, we all know what outsourcing means and what kind of wages that will be expected, well what i would do is issue compulsary redundancies do the older staff who are just waiting for their big pay check and believe me there is a lot of them, cut their work force and keep the younger staff, the price of oil is coming down, these are extreme measures by aer lingus

Outsourcing means better control, not (necessarily) lower wages. Lets say you have a company that does all the baggage handling for Dublin Airport. They can have a few teams in continuous service handling every aircraft that comes in. Now lets say you have a baggage handling team per airline -- which is more efficient? That's how you manage costs sensibly.

Your solution as management would result in even bigger strikes - all those cushy jobs gone. I was looking for a solution that meant you weren't going to harm the workers and avert the strike, while still reducing costs.

L1011

niallo27 wrote: »

Take a look anywhere around today and tell me if you see many irish people working minimum wage jobs

Seeing as only around 3% of people work minimum wage, you don't see many anyones doing it. But yes, I see Irish people doing low-pay jobs all the time.

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Outsourcing means better control, not (necessarily) lower wages. Lets say you have a company that does all the baggage handling for Dublin Airport. They can have a few teams in continuous service handling every aircraft that comes in. Now lets say you have a baggage handling team per airline -- which is more efficient? That's how you manage costs sensibly.

Your solution as management would result in even bigger strikes - all those cushy jobs gone. I was looking for a solution that meant you weren't going to harm the workers and avert the strike, while still reducing costs.

Them cushy jobs are gone a long time ago, dont talk about things you dont know about, your right lets outsource every job, lets screw everyone no irish allowed anymore.

niallo27

MYOB wrote: »

Seeing as only around 3% of people work minimum wage, you don't see many anyones doing it. But yes, I see Irish people doing low-pay jobs all the time.

you go into any dunnes, tescos supermacs mcdonalds and tell me who is mostly working there

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

you go into any dunnes, tescos supermacs mcdonalds and tell me who is mostly working there

Dunnes Donaghmede - almost exclusively Irish workers at the tills.
Tescos Clare Hall - plenty of Irish workers.

Don't go to Supermacs/McDonalds

L1011

niallo27 wrote: »

you go into any dunnes, tescos supermacs mcdonalds and tell me who is mostly working there

Tesco's Maynooth - nearly exclusively Irish workers
Dunnes Maynooth - nearly exclusively Irish workers

I don't touch McDonalds with a 40 foot bargepole, and I've not gone in to a Supermacs in quite some time either. In the past three days I've bought a Herald off an Irish in-traffic seller, been served by an Irish lad in a petrol station and by an Irish woman in a convenience store in the city centre; all of which I'm sure you would assume are done by non-nationals...

ALFIET

niallo27 wrote: »

it was last april and do you know for fact what package they recieved

Actually I do and I also know the redundancy packages awarded by all other companies ( collective redundancies situations) over the last two years and indeed the trends for same over the next 12 months!

stevedublin

I would assume that the "in-traffic newspaper seller" would be non-Irish. I havent seen an Irish in-traffic newspaper seller in years. That said more and more people working in shops are Irish, a few years ago most were non-nationals.

L1011

stevedublin wrote: »

I would assume that the "in-traffic newspaper seller" would be non-Irish. I havent seen an Irish in-traffic newspaper seller in years. That said more and more people working in shops are Irish, a few years ago most were non-nationals.

He sounded Irish and looked Irish. Can't really tell more than that...

ALFIET

niallo27 wrote: »

Come on your not stupid, we all know what outsourcing means and what kind of wages that will be expected, well what i would do is issue compulsary redundancies do the older staff who are just waiting for their big pay check and believe me there is a lot of them, cut their work force and keep the younger staff, the price of oil is coming down, these are extreme measures by aer lingus

A redundancy programme cannot be operated like that for starters. It cannot target a certain age group for selection. This would be unfair selection and could certainly be challenged.

It would also lose on the basis on inequality and discrimination on the grounds of age.

There are legal considerations that any company has to operate it.

stevedublin

MYOB wrote: »

He sounded Irish and looked Irish. Can't really tell more than that...

If his skin colour is black and he can barely speak english, then he probably originates from outside Ireland!

Highsider

niallo27 wrote: »

you go into any dunnes, tescos supermacs mcdonalds and tell me who is mostly working there

Emm maybe a couple of years ago but most of those places are full of Irish workers now. I know of one girl who was in a high paying job only 6 months ago (45-50k per year) and is now working in Dunnes stores for SFA.