Aer Lingus at it again......

maggy_thatcher

stevedublin wrote: »

If his skin colour is black and he can barely speak english, then he probably originates from outside Ireland!

Regardless of anything else, what difference does it make where a person is from? That particular quality should have no bearing. It should be just can they do the job that they are asked to do. Where a person happened to originate should be about as important as skin colour.

FlutterinBantam

Someone take control of this crap.

FlutterinBantam

Lookin' like the strike threat is receding.

ALFIET

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Lookin' like the strike threat is receding.

Happy days

poppysquirrel

'Substantial agreement' at Aer Lingus talks

Thursday, 20 November 2008 14:11
SIPTU has said that it has reached substantial agreement with Aer Lingus management in its row over cost-cutting measures.
The row has threatened to trigger industrial action at the airline before Christmas.
It is understood the two sides have hammered out draft proposals to avoid outsourcing of ground operations with the loss of up to 1,300 direct jobs.
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The negotiations between management and the union will resume later this afternoon to address outstanding issues.
SIPTU's notice of strike action at Aer Lingus was due to expire on Monday.
It has been negotiating with management to find ways of securing up to €50m in staff cost reductions without outsourcing to external suppliers with the loss of 1,300 direct jobs.
It is understood that the two sides have hammered out a draft outline of proposals to save money.
Under these proposals some staff would take redundancy or early retirement, some would stay with the airline, and some new staff would be recruited on lower wages and conditions.
However, full details have not been revealed, and some outstanding issues remain.
The talks facilitated by Kevin Foley of the Labour Relations Commission.
Aer Lingus has not yet commented on the situation.
However, it has warned previously that if no alternative is agreed, it will proceed with its original outsourcing plan.
The acceptability of SIPTU's alternative package would depend on how many staff applied for each option.
Meanwhile Mr Foley is also continuing to supervise talks between Aer Lingus and IMPACT, which represents cabin crew and pilots.


starting to look a bit better, lets hope this holds!!! Wuhoo!!

Climate Expert

Thats bad news for AL staff. Now we can expect everybody to lose their job.

stevedublin

Climate Expert wrote: »

Thats bad news for AL staff. Now we can expect everybody to lose their job.

I dont see how you came to that conclusion. The existing staff can keep their jobs unless they want to take voluntary redundancy and the management make their cost savings allowing the company to survive and prosper. Who loses their job?

poppysquirrel

I agree, how did you figure that? This is good, it means unions have come to an agreement and aer lingus have met them half way. Whoever would like to take redundancy can, whoever wants a job gets one, everyones happy. This is the best outcome that can come out of all this., jobs are kept, strikes are off, and Aer Lingus makes savings and cost cuts that are necessary to keep their heads above water.

FlutterinBantam

He's thinkin' five years down the line Stevie:rolleyes:

maggy_thatcher

poppysquirrel wrote: »

I agree, how did you figure that? This is good, it means unions have come to an agreement and aer lingus have met them half way. Whoever would like to take redundancy can, whoever wants a job gets one, everyones happy. This is the best outcome that can come out of all this., jobs are kept, strikes are off, and Aer Lingus makes savings and cost cuts that are necessary to keep their heads above water.

Well it's the second best outcome. Unfortunately, it means the union is still strong and management are still cowards, so we can expect yet another strike threat in 6 months

poppysquirrel

Yeah, i guess so, I'm sure these cuts are inevitable and will flair up again a few months down the line. I suppose we can just say, Christmas is saved from a travelling point of view, be happy ,, for now?

FlutterinBantam

Das Royatt... for now!!

97i9y3941

they are right to threaten strike,aer lingus want to do an irish ferries job,bascially putting a gun to the workers head,agreed aer lingus did have too much staff,always the lowest end gets punished,why dont we outsource the management or the politicians in the goverment,they always seem to have some convenient way of saving themselfs of getting the chop

poppysquirrel

Ok lets leave the negative stuff out for now, strike is never a good thing. Thats bullying management into doing what the unions want. Doing exactly the same thing that you are acquising management of.

ixoy

Som more practical and useful information from RTE URL="http://www.rte.ie/money/2008/1119/travel.html"]link[/URL about what might happen for customers, and their entitlements, in the case of a strike:

As Aer Lingus and unions continue long hours of negotiations to look for a way around next week's threatened strike, worried passengers are wondering whether their travel plans will be derailed in the chaos.

If union workers do go on strike in the busy run-up to the holiday season, flights will be grounded and at least 20,000 passengers could be affected.

You have clear rights as a passenger under EU regulations, but it is unclear precisely how these rights will be applied in the event of industrial action.

According to Regulation 261 from the European Commission (which came into effect in 2005), airlines have very specific obligations to their passengers when it comes to delayed and cancelled flights. Basically, if an airline gives passengers less than seven days' notice of a cancelled flight, the airline must offer passengers the choice between: 1) an alternative flight that gets them to their destination within two hours of the scheduled time of arrival and 2) a full refund. And, unless the airline can prove some 'extraordinary circumstance', compensation may also be due to passengers.

But are these requirements enforced in the circumstance of a strike? And how could they be enforced in practice?

A spokesman for the Commission for Aviation Regulation says that when there is pre-notification of a strike (as in the current circumstance), airlines would normally not be able to treat the event as an extraordinary circumstance.

He says this is a new legal area, and Aer Lingus and the Commission have been discussing eventualities in case the strike goes ahead.

He says that airlines certainly are responsible for informing passengers of their rights in the event of flights not being available.

So far, Aer Lingus has not given passengers any information about what might happen if its workers do strike next week.

Aer Lingus has refused to comment on what it will do in the case of a strike. 'Obviously we remain hopeful that nothing will happen,' Aer Lingus spokesman Enda Corneille said.

An Aer Lingus customer service representative said that so far all flights are due to go out as scheduled, and if anything changes, an announcement will be made on the Aer Lingus website and through the media.

A European Commission website notes that 'under certain conditions' a strike can be considered an extraordinary circumstance, and a case-by-case assessment is crucial.

Of course it is also possible that Aer Lingus will accommodate its passengers even beyond the European Commission regulations if a strike goes ahead, putting them on other flights and compensating them for their trouble - though it is hard to see how this would be logistically possible.

We may have to wait to see exactly how the legal aspects of an Aer Lingus strike will be handled.

In the meantime, find more information about your passenger rights from the Commission for Aviation Regulation.

Red Sleeping Beauty

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Well it's the second best outcome. Unfortunately, it means the union is still strong

Good, it's going to take a long time to smash this fucking disgusting capitalist system that's fucking destroying people's lives.

Climate Expert

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Good, it's going to take a long time to smash this fucking disgusting capitalist system that's fucking destroying people's lives.

And socialism was such a roaring success. Nice swearing by the way, I can't work out how you passed the filters.

niallo27

well the strike threat worked, they backed down, anyone who wants can keep there job and anyone starting new will start under new conditions.

mickoneill30

niallo27 wrote: »

well the strike threat worked, they backed down, anyone who wants can keep there job and anyone starting new will start under new conditions.

I dunno. If Aer Lingus came out and said we want some redundancies and new workers to come under new conditions they would have got a strike threat and had to settle for less. I'd say they went with worst case scenario expecting a strike threat and having to settle for less. The workers threaten strikes so often it's less of a weapon now and the management can manipulate them (i.e. arrange them around the Christmas travel season, during a recession and make huge demands expecting a lot less). This way the unions can claim victory, management can get what they probably wanted to start with and everybody can pat themselves on the back.

Maybe I'm just being cynical and thinking the management are smarter than they really are.

CDfm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Good, it's going to take a long time to smash this fucking disgusting capitalist system that's fucking destroying people's lives.

i cant believe you were posting for all this disrution based on a failed political and economic ideoligy,

Red Sleeping Beauty

CDfm wrote: »

i cant believe you were posting for all this disrution based on a failed political and economic ideoligy,

Which is ?

Capitalism has failed, look around.

CDfm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Which is ?

Capitalism has failed, look around.

You have a bleak ideoligy.

Maybe you need a night out with a RyanAir hostess

niallo27

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I dunno. If Aer Lingus came out and said we want some redundancies and new workers to come under new conditions they would have got a strike threat and had to settle for less. I'd say they went with worst case scenario expecting a strike threat and having to settle for less. The workers threaten strikes so often it's less of a weapon now and the management can manipulate them (i.e. arrange them around the Christmas travel season, during a recession and make huge demands expecting a lot less). This way the unions can claim victory, management can get what they probably wanted to start with and everybody can pat themselves on the back.

Maybe I'm just being cynical and thinking the management are smarter than they really are.

Well in my opinion managment asked for crazy demands in the first place knowing that really they could not achieve them, so they have both met in the middle ground so i think both parties can be reasonably happy, but how somw people on here could justify what managment was trying to do in beyond me

ixoy

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Capitalism has failed, look around.

Capitalist economies often work in boom-and-bust cycles and the fact we're on the down slope now doesn't make it a failure in light of the good years many had previously. Anyway, this is probably better suited to political theory!

Main thing: Wuhoo, I get to travel home on Monday!

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

Well in my opinion managment asked for crazy demands in the first place knowing that really they could not achieve them, so they have both met in the middle ground so i think both parties can be reasonably happy, but how somw people on here could justify what managment was trying to do in beyond me

In the future, the staff may look at this and wish they'd taken the offer. They've optioned for reduced pay and conditions, working for the same employer. The key difference between that and working for reduced pay and conditions with a different employer is that now their fate is locked to the fate of EI. If they were in an outsourced organisation, they could offer their services to all the other airlines, potentially doing a lot better.

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

In the future, the staff may look at this and wish they'd taken the offer. They've optioned for reduced pay and conditions, working for the same employer. The key difference between that and working for reduced pay and conditions with a different employer is that now their fate is locked to the fate of EI. If they were in an outsourced organisation, they could offer their services to all the other airlines, potentially doing a lot better.

Im not sure what you trying to say but anyone that is staying will keep their present pay and conditions, i know that for a fact, so NO they have not optioned for reduced pay and conditions

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

Im not sure what you trying to say but anyone that is staying will keep their present pay and conditions, i know that for a fact, so NO they have not optioned for reduced pay and conditions

Ah, they changed what was written on the Irish Times website since I last looked at it. It now says "revised work practices" and that it's only newbies get the "reduced pay and conditions" -- which is definitely fair enough - what business is it of older workers what new staff get in on (if the conditions were that bad, nobody would apply).

How they are going to survive with a defined benefits pension scheme in the current economic climate is beyond me though. Look what is happening to GM as a result of one!

niallo27

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Ah, they changed what was written on the Irish Times website since I last looked at it. It now says "revised work practices" and that it's only newbies get the "reduced pay and conditions" -- which is definitely fair enough - what business is it of older workers what new staff get in on (if the conditions were that bad, nobody would apply).

How they are going to survive with a defined benefits pension scheme in the current economic climate is beyond me though. Look what is happening to GM as a result of one!

Well it seems you wont be happy until it does go under, why all the negative feeling towards them, did you get screwed over on a flight or something

maggy_thatcher

niallo27 wrote: »

Well it seems you wont be happy until it does go under, why all the negative feeling towards them, did you get screwed over on a flight or something

No, I am just concerned that all this excessive pandering to the unions is going to hurt everyone in the long-term. I would love to be proven wrong and have everybody keep their jobs and have the airline still survive, but I guess only time will tell.

At least we don't have to worry about a strike for another 6 months or so anyway

MOH

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Good, it's going to take a long time to smash this fucking disgusting capitalist system that's fucking destroying people's lives.

Well, your witty and intelligent argument has certainly swayed my opinion. Where do I sign up for your crusade?

Climate Expert wrote: »

And socialism was such a roaring success. Nice swearing by the way, I can't work out how you passed the filters.

Size tags around the c.

CDfm

MOH wrote: »

Well, your witty and intelligent argument has certainly swayed my opinion. Where do I sign up for your crusade?


Size tags around the c.

I wonder how much AL has lost in bookings and revenue because of this dispute.

This will affect workers in some way or another.