Richard Dunne...

x in the city

Is it just me, or whenever I hear him mentioned he either is

a) scoring an own goal

or

b) getting sent off...


well, anyone else with similar beliefs..

Helix

well, hes scored 7 own goals, and had what, 3 or 4 career red cards...

so unless youve only heard his name mentioned 10 or 11 times, i think youre fibbing

godtabh

Already done

I still like him as a player and have him my fantasy football team

Xavi6

In before the people who don't actually watch City play and form an opinion based on his Ireland performances.

Firstly, he's been a great servant. He's given us years of superb football. However, if it wasn't for us he'd be oin the scrap heap. He was a mess when he joined and through the characters we have behind the scenes his career was turned around.

Player of the Year four years in a row is a fantastic achievement (though last years was not deserved). However, this season has been a disaster.

In recent weeks we've had -

- The own goal against Newcastle
- The own goal against Bolton
- The misjudgement of the ball on Thursday against twente.
- The misjudgement of the ball today against Spurs

All of the above cost us goals. And let's not forget the straight red card today.

Now he's not the only one guilty of playing crap, and the fans have been on the backs of others too, e.g. Richards. However this about Dunne, our captain who is meant to lead by example. It's not happening.

He's a long ball merchant which is incredibly frustrating and useless for a team that plays one up front. We lose the ball so often from aimless hoofs up forward. that can't go on.

The three game ban he gets now could be a blessing in disguise. I hope it is. However a strong part of me thinks Dunne peaked a few years ago and is on a downward spiral.

I expect to be slated because he is Ireland's best defender, but at club level he has been atrocious. Something has to go, and unfortunately for him we have enough money to not have to be stuck with passengers.

_blank_

Some knee-jerk city fans want him out of their club.

Even though he's been in their top three players for the past 5 or so seasons. Probably more.

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Some knee-jerk city fans want him out of their club.

Even though he's been in their top three players for the past 5 or so seasons. Probably more.

FFS Des can you quit living in the past?

You clearly haven't watched Dunne this year for City because your only defence of him is that he was good a few years ago.

Here and now he is playing terrible and that's all that matters. I couldn't give a flying fuck how many awards he's picked up. He's costing us goals and games. That's unacceptable.

The 'knee-jerk' accusation is bollox too. If it was after one out of the blue mistake then fair enough. There's been FIVE in the past 3 weeks!

Helix

Des wrote: »

Some knee-jerk city fans want him out of their club.

Even though he's been in their top three players for the past 5 or so seasons. Probably more.

in fairness, sentiment wins you nothing

if a player consistently stops cutting it, he needs to be shown the door imo

Mr.Nice Guy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Here and now he is playing terrible and that's all that matters.

In fairness Xavi the same thing was said about Stam when he was at United and went through a bad patch. Fergie then offloaded him and it's widely regarded as a big mistake as he recaptured his form. I'm not saying Dunne is in Stam's class but I could easily see a situation where City offload him to somewhere like Tottenham and he ends up producing terrific performances with City fans saying, 'Aww we should never have gotten rid of him, our new twenty million guy looks like he's worse'.

I think someone who has served City that long should be shown a bit of loyalty. If he's to be dropped then fine. Let him try and force his way back into contention. To get rid of him though does seem knee-jerk to me.

hes a fat alko

Helix

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

In fairness Xavi the same thing was said about Stam when he was at United and went through a bad patch. Fergie then offloaded him and it's widely regarded as a big mistake as he recaptured his form. I'm not saying Dunne is in Stam's class but I could easily see a situation where City offload him to somewhere like Tottenham and he ends up producing terrific performances with City fans saying, 'Aww we should never have gotten rid of him, our new twenty million guy looks like he's worse'.

sometimes it IS the move that reignites a players form tho

had stam stayed at united he may have continued being ropey

Xavi6

The thing is, we can afford to drop him. We have Ben Haim there. We also have a horribly underrated yet experienced England under 21 centre half in the form of Nedum Onouha who has played well every time he's been called upon. Get him into the team.

There's no room for loyalty when you sit 2 points off the relegation places.

JPA

He needs to be taken out of the team and he will be now as he's suspended.
He doesn't need to be sold, it's not like his form is lost forever (well probably not).

But isn't Ben Haim a bit crap too?

Sqaull20

Onouha is class alright, I rate him higher than Richards.Ben Haim is horribile though.

Kompany is decent at the back as well.

Green Hornet

I like Dunne but he seems to be a walking disaster zone at the moment. In fairness he's been unlucky with some of the OG's.

He's been good over the last few seasons but under Hughes he seems to be going backward. I imagine he will be dropped soon if his performances don't improve.

LuckyLloyd

Xavi, how many games have you played this season? How many games as he played his entire time at City. Fairly certain that the ratio of good games : recent bad games is very much in his favor. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

RasTa

Des wrote: »

Some knee-jerk city fans want him out of their club.

Even though he's been in their top three players for the past 5 or so seasons. Probably more.

City fans aren't the brightest anyway. It's being a Knee-Jerk season for them so far, as predicted expect Hughes to be out before the end of the season thanks to the new owners revelations.

If they are not careful they could end up like Newcastle. I can't see any superstars joining in January.

Pepe LeFrits

Xavi6 wrote: »

FFS Des can you quit living in the past?

You clearly haven't watched Dunne this year for City because your only defence of him is that he was good a few years ago.

10 months earlier...

Xavi6 wrote: »

Dunne is a model of consistency and a credit to the team and the fans. I'd have him over 95% of defenders, including the likes of Rio Ferdinand. I suggest you start watching more Premiership.

LuckyLloyd

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

10 months earlier...

awesome ownage post! Well played sir.

_blank_

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

10 months earlier...

Are you Pighead,
Are you Pighead,
Are you Pighead in disguise,
Are you Pighead in. dis. guise?

Mr Alan

in fairness...had to be done. well played Pepe.

therecklessone

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

awesome ownage post! Well played sir.

I'm not saying I agree with Xavi on Dunne, but how is a post from 10 months ago (i.e. last season) relevant to the point he is making now (i.e. that Dunne has been crap this season)?

rossie1977

didn't eamon dunphy say dunne was one of the best centre halves in the world around february of this year??

Pepe LeFrits

Des wrote: »

Are you Pighead,
Are you Pighead,
Are you Pighead in disguise,
Are you Pighead in. dis. guise?

Pepe LeFrits does not appreciate these comments, at all.

therecklessone

I should add if it's ownage you're after, maybe this whets your appetite?

Mr Alan wrote:

Hughes for the bullet Xavi?

Xavi6 wrote: »

Huhges, Dunne, Hart, Gelson....take your pick really.

27th October 2008

Xavi6 wrote: »

[Hart signs new contract at Eastlands]
Love it! Best young keeper in the league.

Sorry Xav...

LuckyLloyd

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm not saying I agree with Xavi on Dunne, but how is a post from 10 months ago (i.e. last season) relevant to the point he is making now (i.e. that Dunne has been crap this season)?

Because it cements the counter argument that City fans are currently in a general 'overreact to every little thing' tailspin and is evidence that Xavi may be prone to the odd bit of hyperbole.

Therefore meaning that people should ignore this thread. Dunne is still an awesome defender and is merely going through a small rough patch.

~Rebel~

but to be fair, 10 months ago (or last february as mentioned elsewhere) Dunne Was excellent. Over the past weeks he's looked very dodgey. I dont think he should be sold or anything, at least not unless this run of form continues, but he certainly has dropped down a peg or two from his potential performances. Im sure he can regain his good form, but theres no doubt he can be a bit of a liability at the moment. A few games out now to just train and get his head down and hopefully he can return all the better for it.

Green Hornet

Might be a stupid thought but could the fact that he plays on the left side of the centre half pairing be part of the issue? When he played with Distin he played on the right.

LuckyLloyd

Green Hornet wrote: »

Might be a stupid thought but could the fact that he plays on the left side of the centre half pairing be part of the issue? When he played with Distin he played on the right.

What would have more of an influence is if Kompany takes up different positions / is a worse communicator / attacks the first ball with a markedly different frequency than Dunne's previous regular partner. Such changes could serve to unsettle him. If it is the problem, it will only be a temporary thing.

JPA

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What would have more of an influence is if Kompany takes up different positions / is a worse communicator / attacks the first ball with a markedly different frequency than Dunne's previous regular partner. Such changes could serve to unsettle him. If it is the problem, it will only be a temporary thing.

That could be it except Kompany plays in midfield!

LuckyLloyd

JPA wrote: »

That could be it except Kompany plays in midfield!

Whatever, my comments hold for whoever is playing with him at the back right now.

bigstar

richards is playing centre back with him now, same as last season, with ben haim playing the odd game. i dont think all citys form comes down to just dunne. the midfield while great going forward, do f all when we dont have the ball. wigan bolton even fcukin twente controlled everything in midfield, didnt see the boro game or todays game, but i imagine it was the same, we get out muscled in the middle. even in the games weve won this season, weve looked weak when the opposition have the ball, and this is a team managed by mark hughes, whose blackburn side could play ball and tear lumps out of the opposition. dunnes out now for a few games, i dont think well be any better.

Pigman II

Helix wrote: »

well, hes scored 7 own goals, and had what, 3 or 4 career red cards...
so unless youve only heard his name mentioned 10 or 11 times, i think youre fibbing

He might have been thinking about young McShane? In his short career the prodigious Wicklowman has already clocked up 3 red cards and 4 og's. Not long before he's relieving Dunne of his headline grabbing record I reckon?

Boggles

He has been muck alright this year, not been smart but is there any chance he is back on the sauce? Hope not.

Xavi6

RasTa wrote: »

City fans aren't the brightest anyway.

:rolleyes: Charming

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

10 months earlier...

Congratulations on your ability to use the search function.

The post is completely irrelevant because of Dunne's performances this season. I said that at a time when he WAS playing superbly, and WAS better than the majority of Premiership centre halves. He hasn't done that since last season.

Jeez you'd swear that a good player has never gone shit before. Weren't United fans wanting Neville out after the Arsenal game?

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

awesome ownage post! Well played sir.

Yes pwned. Because once you say a player is good you're tied to that description for life.

I'm sure I could dig out old posts from when Veron signed for United or Diouf for Liverpool. I'd say the circle jerk at the time was fantastic but we all know how it turned out.

Maybe I can get Detective Pepe on the case.....

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm not saying I agree with Xavi on Dunne, but how is a post from 10 months ago (i.e. last season) relevant to the point he is making now (i.e. that Dunne has been crap this season)?

In a nutshell

therecklessone wrote: »

I should add if it's ownage you're after, maybe this whets your appetite?





27th October 2008





Sorry Xav...

No need to be sorry. I do stand by that.

It's the same idea as with Foster or Carson - Hart is too raw to be a number 1 at a club like City. He has amazing potential but his decision making is suspect to say the least. He should never have come off his line for the first goal today, and when he did he had his legs wider than an eastern European hooker. Not the first time he's been megged for a goal (was it 4 times against Chelsea last year?). He needs someone experienced who can take the heat off him. That's what I meant when I included him in the list of those needing some sideline time.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Because it cements the counter argument that City fans are currently in a general 'overreact to every little thing' tailspin and is evidence that Xavi may be prone to the odd bit of hyperbole.

Therefore meaning that people should ignore this thread. Dunne is still an awesome defender and is merely going through a small rough patch.

It's not 'every little thing' though. 9 Premiership points were at stake, as well as a European game.

Christ, if Agger or the like did that for Pool they'd be calling for his head.

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

Christ, if Agger or the like did that for Pool they'd be calling for his head.

I have been calling for Agger's head! But that is because his ratio of great games : rubbish games is not substantially in his favor.

The highlights made Dunne look bad tonight I will admit. Don't think it's terminal ala Neville though. Rest him for the next three games and maybe give the armband to someone else for the long haul. Then watch him storm back refreshed and motivated - and dominate the rest of the season.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I have been calling for Agger's head! But that is because his ratio of great games : rubbish games is not substantially in his favor.

But again that is just sentiment over times past. His great games : rubbish games ration this season is only going in one direction.

The highlights made Dunne look bad tonight I will admit. Don't think it's terminal ala Neville though. Rest him for the next three games and maybe give the armband to someone else for the long haul. Then watch him storm back refreshed and motivated - and dominate the rest of the season.

That is exactly what I want to happen but I really don't think it will.

The other problem is the choice of captain. We seriously lack leaders. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of fans are saying Ireland should get it for the next three games. Personally I'd go with Kompany.

Savman

Xavi6 wrote: »

Because once you say a player is good you're tied to that description for life.

I think you're missing the point. The accusation being levelled at Citeh supporters here is that the reaction is purely knee-jerk in response to a coupla crap results/performances. You've kinda proved that, whether you realise it or not.

If he's playing so badly, then a spell on the sidelines would suffice for a player who was so highly rated -by your good self- a mere 10 months ago. Good players don't go crap in that space of time, yet you are calling for him 'to go'. Makes no sense tbh. He's either underrated/rock of defence or he's a liability punching above his weight, which is it? Because whatever the answer is, it doesn't change every season.

Xavi6

Savman wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. The accusation being levelled at Citeh supporters here is that the reaction is purely knee-jerk in response to a coupla crap results/performances. You've kinda proved that, whether you realise it or not.

Accusations of a knee jerk reaction would be justifiable if it happened after the Newcastle game. Four games later there is a legitimate case for the prosecution.

If he's playing so badly, then a spell on the sidelines would suffice for a player who was so highly rated -by your good self- a mere 10 months ago. Good players don't go crap in that space of time, yet you are calling for him 'to go'. Makes no sense tbh. He's either underrated/rock of defence or he's a liability punching above his weight, which is it? Because whatever the answer is, it doesn't change every season.

I don't think it's either really. He was never 100% rock solid (the amount of OGs over the years for example prove that), yet I don't think he is punching above his weight.

95% of the time he is great (defensively anyway) but it's that other 5% that he is rightly or wrongly judged on. There have simply been too many errors. At 29 if he has a spell on the sidelines coming up to the transfer window do you think he will get back into the team? I would have serious doubts about that given our war chest for January. In fact, if he does get dropped for a spell than that will most likely be the signal for him to leave.

I don't want Dunne to go in my heart. I have the guy's name on one of my shirts. However the head sees that there is a lot wrong with our defence and he appears to be the biggest problem.

Savman

From the little bits I've seen lately, it looks like his confidence is shot and I think his inconsistency just highlights some deeper problems within that City side. Lotsa flair going forward, no doubt...but no defensive steel. On paper the front 5 V the back 5 has some imbalance to it, so I wouldn't be quick to persecute an individual for what's essentially a collective problem.

I'm sure we'll see Fantasticinho sign in January and after some dribbling and bicycle kicks in your own 6 yard box you may just pine for the ol' honey monster and his unfashionable means.

Jazzy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Jeez you'd swear that a good player has never gone shit before. Weren't United fans wanting Neville out after the Arsenal game?

careful, u are implying that gary neville was once good!

Xavi6

Savman wrote: »

I'm sure we'll see Fantasticinho sign in January and after some dribbling and bicycle kicks in your own 6 yard box you may just pine for the ol' honey monster and his unfashionable means.

Lol if we get a Brazilian centre half or keeper then I'm finished!

Germans at the back, Brazilians up top. The ultimate combination!

Jazzy wrote: »

careful, u are implying that gary neville was once good!

You're saying he wasn't?

mormank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I have been calling for Agger's head! But that is because his ratio of great games : rubbish games is not substantially in his favor.

The highlights made Dunne look bad tonight I will admit. Don't think it's terminal ala Neville though. Rest him for the next three games and maybe give the armband to someone else for the long haul. Then watch him storm back refreshed and motivated - and dominate the rest of the season.

i would agree with this post. a very similar thing happened at the pool a few years back with big sami. he suffered a loss of form while he was captain. the armband was passed on to its natural heir and the big finn again became an integral part of the team for the followong few years.

oh and we have the luxury of calling for agger's head cos in skrtel we have an amazing replacement!!

Xavi6

mormank wrote: »

oh and we have the luxury of calling for agger's head cos in skrtel we have an amazing replacement!!

But we have Onouha who many people rate as just as good a player,if not better, than Richards. We aren't short of centre halves with Ben Haim and Kompany there as well. It's not like we'd have no one to come for Dunne.

Unearthly

The 3 match ban might do him the world of good. He needed to be dropped or just not playing at all.

Hope he recovers his form though, always like Big Dunney!

Xavi6

Only a 1 match ban for both Gelson and Dunne. They're free to play against Arsenal and United now (if they're picked).

Unearthly

Ah right, my bad

Could be the games to get him back on track. He's done it before in big games

Pepe LeFrits

Xavi6 wrote: »

The post is completely irrelevant because of Dunne's performances this season. I said that at a time when he WAS playing superbly, and WAS better than the majority of Premiership centre halves. He hasn't done that since last season.

I thought it was relevant because you insinuated that Dunne hasn't been performing to a high level in years when by your own earlier admission, it is a matter of months. Given your comments during pre-season about how solid City's defensive options were, you'll have to forgive us for thinking that it looks like you've gone from rating Dunne as one of the best in the world to wanting him out based on barely 3 months of games... which is a rather hasty turn-around by most standards.

keane2097

Since when does 5 bad games mean a player is finished?

_blank_

keane2097 wrote: »

Since when does 5 bad games mean a player is finished?

Since Manchester City became Nuveaux Riche.

noodler

I think City fans are completelty overreatcing and getting a little too big for their boots in terms of who they deserve at their club (not Xavi spcifically or anything though).

Whats City's standard formation and line up? Its far too offensive, they need to start playing Hamann or buy someone to sit a little deeper who can tackle and keep games ticking over. Its like 4 defenders and 6 attackers at times-no surprise for me Dunne is under so much pressure.

I am not conding Dunne's mistakes however and the two misjudgements of a bounce of the ball obviously have nothing to do with the above but I kind of wish Spurs had bought him now.

bigstar

indeed my booties do seem to be shrinking. how dare we aspire to greater things.