Advice re threats from scumbags - all advice appreciated!

dsmythy

Less of the hysterics and film fantasy people.

My advice would be to ignore the threat and try get on with life. If it escalates to threats on the family and house then go to the Gardai.

The possibility may remain that Mike will run into the young lad some time and deliver the hiding he promised him. If he gets away relatively unscathed then you could probably drop it.

More likely of course Mike will forget about it and move on to the next person who slighted him like someone who knocks his drink over in the pub. This is the type of scumbag who finds someone else to be angry over every day by the sounds of things.

Leave it and wait and see but go to the Gardai if the entire family and home are threatened.

Dyr

tbh if the scummer bumps into the young fella at any stage in the forseeable future, it'll probably be a hiding for him. Whats the age difference?

Julez

Ok I know it sounds mad but generally in these familys the Ma rules the roost, so get your mam to talk to theres and explain the situation, mikes mam will probably give him a bollocking and that'll be that. Theres no harm in trying that way anyway, there's hardly gonna be a fist fight between the two mothers.

turbot

No I don't, I think it may come across as desperate and pathetic, I think you were watching Son of Rambow lately. The REAL WORLD doesn't work like that.

What qualifies you to know more about how the REAL WORLD than I?

In this equation, the only "realities" that count are that of:
- The Bully
- The 14 year old

(in that order).

Right now, the reality for the bully is that, he's heard someone is dissing him and so he intends to regain his respect by beating that person up. This is a pretty common human solution to being spoken badly of.

As part of this, the bully is interested in:
- looking good
- feeling important
- feeling powerful
- feeling respected.

If he comes from a scumbag family, he's probably surrounded by a lot of abuse. He probably doesn't care enough about life to see further than his self respect. He's probably got little more going for him than his reputation and probably looks into the future without much hope.

How might video change that?

Lots of people can win a fight against someone smaller. If he knows it's going to be on film, if it goes too far, theres and evidence trail and people lose respect if they get "caught". But if he agrees to be in a film, you can change the purpose enough times that he gets distracted from wanting to beat up the 14 year old.

Few people get to feel like they star in a video, especially "scumbags".

Chances are, offering him that chance can "flip" his whole perspective, and allow him to feel what he's interested in feeling, totally change the way he sees the 14 year old, and so forth.

Now, there are lots of pieces to this, if the video actually includes a "fight scene", if he wants to feel famous, it makes no sense to actually hurt the guy producing it. Plus the ins and outs of making a video, create lots of opportunities for the 14 year old to encourage the bully to like him more.

Try to see past your perspective of whats going on, and peak inside the head of the bully.

BTW, I made loads of videos when I was a teenager. Watching yourself on video often makes you much more conscious of how you look and move. It's quite a distracting experience because it forces you to diassociate from the event videod and see yourself from the third person.

2) Do you think that an older bully is going to respect a younger kid more (or less) for agreeing to fight?

I don't think the bully in question has any respect whatsoever for the kid.

Regardless of your personal opinion about how much respect he has or not, perhaps you could answer my question as to whether or not a bully is going to have more respect for a kid who fights back with all they've got, or someone who doesn't.

I was bulled by an older kid in school, which was compounded by his older friends all of whom were in the year above me. One day, I was told that after school, even if I agreed to fight this kid, all of his friends were going to jump me. That day, I ran all the way home. For the next few years, I felt pretty intimidated in various social occassions inside and outside of school and it wasn't pleasant.

I took up kickboxing and ninjitsu and trained hard.

About two years later, one of the bullys friends tried to pick a fight with me in school, and much to his annoyance, I held my ground. It was arranged that I fight him after school. I showed up for the fight and he backed out saying the other guy who I'd originally had trouble with was going to fight me instead. The other guy backed out also, and I was never hassled again.

So I can at least relate to the place the 14 year old is in.

I think it's great that people learn how to protect themselves, there's not a chance in hell of learning to protect yourself reasonably in a short time span, it's not a set date. The kid could be set on at any time.

Not true.

A couple of lessons will make the difference between someone who is totally untrained, and someone who has a couple of things to do to in typical street fight situations, like:

- Guard himself better
- Get out of a headlock
- Use psychology + handle fear
- Punch + kick harder

For example, there are krav-maga weekends in Dublin from which, after two days, you are much better equipped to handle all kinds of street scenarios.
It feels much better to at least be able to fight back, than to be overwhelmed by fear.

4) Whats the worst case scenario in making a "rocky" like video, in a boxing ring, with gloves, on camera? It's certainly a lot safer than an anything goes streetfight. Done right, the younger kid might be made to look like he lost, but probably wouldn't get hurt. If it's all captured on video, thats a pretty big deterent from an evidence perspective also.

There' no way to fake being hurt at 14 by an 18 year old(I may be wrong on age here). He get's the **** knocked out of him and it's now on camera. The mother has already thought of sending him away(drastic), what happens to the kid when every little toe rag in Limerick has a copy of it and is shoving it in his face daily?

What your overlooking is the opportunity making a video affords to interrupt the damaging parts of a "fight" and all the relationship building situations that are created as a result.
If the bully agrees to be in the film, it will change the relationship, and there are all kinds of opportunities to get the bully to like the 14 year old. Like screen tests... Son of Rambow isn't actually a bad example in this regard.
If the 14 year old is making the video, he controls the footage and the editing of it. I thought Son of Rambow, while enjoyably OTT, was pretty easy to relate to. My friends an I did stuff like that.

It's possible to handle/manage this whole situation using psychology.

In terms of a video that leads to different bullying, right now, the purpose is to dissapate the venom this bully has for the kid. That way he's not likely to get injured or stabbed.

Secondly, in order to make a video, you have to stage the fight. That means you need some video awareness to do it, which means the bully can't beat up the 14 year old, or it won't work. If you've ever tried to make a home movie, you'd know this. (I have and did so when I was in my teens).

Maybe it would be more helpful if you'd explain how and why you think this post is a disgrace and your reasoning?

You're trying to apply a solution that in reality would only ever happen in something like High School Musical. There's a kid somewhere that could potentially get a serious hiding if they're not empty threats.

I'm not saying the kid is able to pull this off.

It is possible, done right, this would transform the reality of the bully and lead to a better outcome that years of being intimidated by older kids.

I remember what that was like and lets just say, it's pretty uncomfortable.

Surely, the more perspectives and ideas offered, the more likely the OP is to find one that is really appropriate for his situation?

Look, you offered your opinion and that's fair enough. I, however, doubt that you've grown up in a socially disadvantaged area and fully understand the logic and reasoning behind thug's actions. I've seen first hand the actions of scumbags, there is seldom no reasoning with them. Attempting to explain to those from not so deprived areas is hard as people can rarely understand how scumbags can act so senseless and with little remorse. Even now, it's hard to artciulate exactly what it is that causes scum of the earth to behave in a manner that is destructive on a regular occurence.

It's not so difficult to explain the nature of their actions or Worlds.

Basically, on the inside, they feel angry, hopeless and bad and see the World through those eyes (due to all kinds of abuse, bad nutrition, examples of angry, hopeless people and little or no hope or semblance of feeling peaceful or loved). They often experience so much anger they just don't give a sh** and are motivated to be powerful in ways that make sense to them, like if they can intimidate you, that offers them some distorted relief from feeling like you have a better life than they have. They act destructively for relief from their anger, for the thrill, for social power, for escapism.

But its not that they can't be reasoned with, as so much, reasoning that works with you won't work with them and their behaviour is often the result of them being overwhelmed by the way they feel such that they act with much less awareness than folk from a more stable background.

One of my best friends works with people from extremely impoverished backgrounds and I've watched her get through to everyone from homeless people to guys that most people wouldn't feel safe around at all.

(She doesn't do it with the kind of shortsighted biggoted thinking that leads to priveledged snobs on boards to refer to a whole group of people with the hateful label "scumbag".)

dudara

Lightning Bolt and Turbot - the pair of you should have more sense than to get involved in a personal argument. Take it to PM or face a ban if you continue.

x.x.x.x.x.x.x - We do not advocate violence in this forum. There will be no further mention of getting someone else to fight for the brother.

To all other posters - Cop yourselves on and adhere to the rules of this forum

LegacyUser

Reading this thread I am shocked to see how many people fear these scumbags. If recent events aren't enough to convince the governement that a special gangs Bureau is needed, I don't know what is. These scumbags run our streets with impunity. There is a way to deal with these gangs and it's not with understanding and love. Scumbags will always be scumbags no matter how much money you throw at them. Being a member of a gang should punishable with a mandatory first time offence jail sentence.

Self denfense should be a right, if it isn't already, I am not a lawyer I don't know. I do, however, live in Dublin and how I've always delt with scumbags is I don't let them bully me. I carry a knife, and when they come up to me I let them know, even if it's a group of them, that they may win the fight but I'll take one of thier eyes or ears with me. Bullys look for an easy target, if you stand up to them it's too much work in almost all occasions they talk big and walk away. Also, I act crazy when they start talking about fighting I get really enthusiastic and wide eyed. Truth is, I really do love it. There is nothing more life reaffirming than a good fight. When they walk off I usually follow them and give them a fright. I let them know I have nothing to live for and genuinely enjoy a punch up. Rule of life is crazy beats big every time.

That's the best advice I can give...

Pub07

turbot wrote: »

It's possible to handle/manage this whole situation using psychology.

In terms of a video that leads to different bullying, right now, the purpose is to dissapate the venom this bully has for the kid. That way he's not likely to get injured or stabbed.

Secondly, in order to make a video, you have to stage the fight. That means you need some video awareness to do it, which means the bully can't beat up the 14 year old, or it won't work. If you've ever tried to make a home movie, you'd know this. (I have and did so when I was in my teens).

Maybe it would be more helpful if you'd explain how and why you think this post is a disgrace and your reasoning?

You're trying to apply a solution that in reality would only ever happen in something like High School Musical. There's a kid somewhere that could potentially get a serious hiding if they're not empty threats.

I'm not saying the kid is able to pull this off.

It is possible, done right, this would transform the reality of the bully and lead to a better outcome that years of being intimidated by older kids.

I can't believe your still peddling this delusional film idea. This is the REAL world with a REAL scumbag from a REAL scumbag family. This isn't an episode of Saved by the Bell. This scumbag is looking to violently assault the op's brother, he's not looking to make some kind of saddo Rocky Jnr. film where everyone is cheering on op's brother to beat the bully and they end up being best of friends after the fight. The only way this fight will be filmed is if it's by this Mike guys mates on their phones so they can have a good laugh at the op's brother getting his head kicked in and then stick it up on youtube.

RugbyFanatic

Turbot in all my time of reading PI your idea is quite possibly the most stupid, delusional and laughable idea I have ever seen.

God awful advice.

COH

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Turbot in all my time of reading PI your idea is quite possibly the most stupid, delusional and laughable idea I have ever seen.

God awful advice.

+1,000,000,000,000,000

Lockstep

the_syco wrote: »

Just like to say: a bully doesn't like being beaten. If the brother does martial arts, and looks like he'll win, Mike may whip out a weapon (knife, gun, etc), to ensure he wins.

Allright, I'm no streetwise ass-kicker but I've met the odd fella through boxing who's mentioned this happening. Losing on his own might result in him getting a crowd of mates.

However, I would definetely not rule out learning a martial art or combat sport. Not to use it but to get self confidence, trust me, the mental boost it gives you helps to keep calm in dangerous situations which enables you to get out without having to use it.

DisasterIRL wrote: »

By the post I am assuming you have not had very many confrontations with Scumbags, a boxing ring is quite a bad idea, not bvery many people are wandering by, most of these guys are irrational and thugish, just because it's in a boxing ring makes it no safer.

Agreed.

Boxing clubs tend to be harsh but fair as the coaches need to maintain their credibility (most of the ones I've seen have had strict anti-bullying policies)

BUt even in a controlled environment boxing can be extremely dangerous, I spent a long time trainging before I was allowed in the ring, even so I got a terrible punch in the throat. Going in with even less knowledge than I had is a bad thing.

zuroph

Deleted User wrote: »

Watch your house like a hawk on fridays and saturdays and hope it blows over.

Speaking of Limerick, my mate was down there recently and was suddenly surrounded by cop cars, they all had weapons and were asking him what he was doing, he was apparently in a gang feud area and he was made leave. Limerick - what a ****ing loo laa place!

calling shenanigans on this rubbish, its offtopic and made up.

DarkJager

turbot wrote: »

As part of this, the bully is interested in:
- looking good
- feeling important
- feeling powerful
- feeling respected.

You are living in an absolute fantasy world if you think making this cringe worthy video of a fight is going to solve anything. You obviously have never dealt with scumbags like this or have spent way too much time watching Disney movies. This is the real world. To comment on your above points, why would you want to feed the bully any sort of ego boost by making him look or feel important? That surely gives him the impression that what he is doing is acceptable? Bullys should not be endorsed or made to feel powerful or respected, they should be crushed.

From personal experience, laying low will work 9/10 times. That other 1 time will require the fight to go ahead, preferably ending with the scumbag getting a hiding to put him in his place. I've been in similar, and when all the talking failed, it was only by giving the scumbag an absolute kicking (twice) that ended the whole situation. The point is to defeat the scumbag and make him realise he isn't as big or intimidating as he thinks he is, not to make him the star of what would essentially be a supervised happy slapping video. Making a piss poor rocky imitation would not only destroy the kids confidence for the rest of his life, its possible copies could be passed to school friends making a bad situation a thousand times worse.

I think you seriously need to come out of the clouds. This is Limerick you are talking about. Down here, asking a scumbag to make a video when all he wants to do is fight is going to either:

a) get you beaten up
b) get you laughed out of his face
c) get you a beating and your camera taken

I'm not sure where you are from, but you must live a very sheltered life if you think this is an realistic solution to threats of violence....

Masada

A lot of the posts in here have gone way past a useful point at this stage,.

I grew up in probably the roughesnt area in dublin city myself and ive seen and been involved in these type of situations.

getting the cops involved will only have you branded "the rat" and not only will that family have it in for you, but other similar families will brand you the rat too. only if it gets to the stage where your family is being bullied and theres a real threat would you get the gardai involved. its not right, but this isnt a perfect world.

if it were me i would get my bro to approach this guy when he's not with a gang of people, and say to him, "here mike, about what I said, I had a few jars in me and I don't even remember it, sorry for what i said etc etc".
since "mike" is alone he wont feel the need to "big himself up for the lads" and your little bro stands a better chance of coming out of it with no confrontation at all. If the worst comes to the worst, your little bro might get a few slaps. most of these fights fizzle out after a bit of head locking and a few digs thrown, nothing that's gonna kill him and isn't it worth it for the peace of mind to know your family wont have anything to be worrying about when its done?

If afterwards Mike is still being a pr*ck, you have the choice of either having a few words with an older member of his family. explain that your afraid to leave your mother alone in the house after mike was threatening etc etc, and they might tell him to give it over or he'll be getting the slaps. If thats not gonna work, ask them to agree to the 2 having a fisticuffs with each other and shake and walk away afterwards regardless of who wins.

these things can escalate to the levels of violence you see on the news everyday but thats only going to happen if you either get the cops in or retaliate, but if you make the effort to communicate with them and let the kids get it out of their system then you have a much better chance if it fizzling out there and then,,.

hoe it works out ok for ya OP.,

A.Partridge

Hello Op, not a nice situation for your family to be in.

Since you posted this originally we have seen the untimely murder of Shane Geoghegan - an ordinary innocent bloke who was shot dead 'in error'.

I can tell you something for nothing. Limerick has never seen as much Garda activity as it is seeing at the moment.

The 18 year old 'Mike' will not follow through with his threat because every member of every known criminal gang is being watched closely as we speak.

If 'Mike' were to draw yet further unwanted negative attention on his 'family' by getting into a scrap with another innocent member of the public at this time I would say he would be in dire trouble from his own kind.

Let things blow over and I would report the threat to the Gardai.