Irish squad for AB game

Dave Joyce

I hope whatever changes Declan Kidney makes will take in some of the 11 players he has added to the squad with yesterdays 22. Good to see MOK and Bob Casey included. Full 11 apart from the two above are: Cian Healy, Ryan Caldwell, Dennis Leamy, Girvan Dempsey, Geordan Murphy, Andrew Trimble, Ian Dowling, Bernard Jackman and Tomas O'Leary.

Sundy

No wilson and no sexton!

[Jackass]

Good to see O'Kelly and Jackman back in. Both may start on the bench.

Although I would prefer to see Earls stay in the first 15, I've a feeling he will be the only change in the backline with either Horgan or Dempsey coming in to take his place.

Sundy wrote:

No wilson and no sexton!

Forget Sexton, or even O'Connor, Keatley & Humphries too. When you have a world class 10 as backup, in the form of Wallace, there's no point in blooding young talent. He'd be better than anyone even if he had to play injured.

Podge_irl

Of that crowd I can see O'Leary and possibly Dempsey and O'Kelly coming into the 22. I can't really see any of the others getting a look in.

RugbyFanatic

Squad I would like to see vs All Blacks

1.Horan
2.Best
3.Hayes
4.POC
5.MOK
6.Ferris
7.Wallace
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10. O'Gara
11.Earls
12.BOD
13.Fitzgerald
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

[Jackass]

Really, drop Bowe? I think he's been pretty good this season with Ospreys and was probably our best back vs Canada.

For the wings I'd say it'll be him and Horgan as they are very physical. It could also be a tall order to ask Earls to make his second cap against the All Blacks. Although I suppose BO'D made his debut against world champions Australia without even playing a senior Leinster game, so players can step up. Although I doubt Kidney will take the risk which is a shame.

marco_polo

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Squad I would like to see vs All Blacks

1.Horan
2.Best
3.Hayes
4.POC
5.MOK
6.Ferris
7.Wallace
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10. O'Gara
11.Earls
12.BOD
13.Fitzgerald
14.Horgan
15.Kearney

Swap Bowe (He really is in outstanding form for the Os) for Horgan and I would be in full agreement

[Jackass] wrote: »

Really, drop Bowe? I think he's been pretty good this season with Ospreys and was probably our best back vs Canada.

For the wings I'd say it'll be him and Horgan as they are very physical. It could also be a tall order to ask Earls to make his second cap against the All Blacks. Although I suppose BO'D made his debut against world champions Australia without even playing a senior Leinster game, so players can step up. Although I doubt Kidney will take the risk which is a shame.

Not too sure about that, Earls seems to have the full confidence of the coach so I would not be at all surprised if he went with Earls.

Bearing in mind that we are so far behind the All Blacks we cannot lose any ranking points in this game no matter what the result, I think that he may be a little more adventurous than you give him credit for.


Beating Argentina will make or break our ranking for the world cup.

A bonus for us is that Scotland can actually lose a handful of ranking points if they get beaten by SA because the number of ranking points seperating Scot - SA is less than us vs NZ. Accounting for the 3pt Home advantage boost it is roughly a 7.8 difference between SA - Scot versus 12.2 for Ire - NZ. (Points do not change hands for a result if the diference is > 10 ) The most they could lose is about 0.3 or so but every little helps

tommmy1979

Ya.. Bowe is in great form and he was so confident under the high ball against canada when everyone else was dropping it. I'd like to see Wally at number 8 on the back of his munster performance against Sale.. he loves playing in that position. I'd also like to see him taking a short cut through Dan Carter with ball in hand

RugbyFanatic

Whoops meant to have Bowe in there rather than Horgan!

Amz

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Whoops meant to have Bowe in there rather than Horgan!

Pesky typos!

Dirty Frank

What are our chances in the AB game? Missed the Canadian game, heard we played well though. Any predictions?

[Jackass]

We have a very real chance.

We were level with them with 10 minutes to play when we played them in New Zealand. We're in better shape now fitness wise, key players are coming back into form, it's in our home patch....we are very capable of winning this game.

marco_polo

[Jackass] wrote: »

We have a very real chance.

We were level with them with 10 minutes to play when we played them in New Zealand. We're in better shape now fitness wise, key players are coming back into form, it's in our home patch....we are very capable of winning this game.

While I am loath to be optimistic in advance of a game against the ABs, I find myself reluctantly agreeing with your assessment.

Come one Ireland!

Hippo

tommmy1979 wrote: »

I'd also like to see him taking a short cut through Dan Carter with ball in hand

I don't think this kind of event occurs very often.

zenmonk

My team
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
DOC
POC
Ferris
Jennings
Heaslip
Reddan
O Gara
Earls
Fitzgerald
O Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney

redroar1942

Jennings hasn't a snowballs chance of staying at 7.

Did Fitzgerald do enough to cement his place?

MOK definitely in the match 22. Sub prop?? Buckley was uther gash.

MikeHoncho

Id put money on Horgan starting this one on the wing. We need his big game experience and his size.


Kearney
Bowe
O'Driscoll
Fitzgerald
Horgan
O'Gara
Reddan (can't throw O'Leary to the wolves)
Horan
Best
Hayes
O Kelly
O'Connell
Ferris
D. Wallace
Heaslip

Replacements: Buckley, Flannery, Quinlan, Jennings, O'Leary, P. Wallace, Earls

spoon

As much as I would love to see Earls start at 11 for this match I think the only change we'll see in the backs is a straight swap for Murphy or Dempsey at 15.

Colm_OReilly

Thought Fitz was very quite on Saturday. Prob go Bowe, Horgan, Kearney for the back three, felt Shaggy did his best to make an impact when he came on.

anonymous_joe

For Earls' sake and Ireland's I hope he doesn't start.

The guy's a great talent, and really exciting to watch, but he'll be up against some world class wings and I could see New Zealand targeting him under the high ball, where he's not as good as Kearney.

Can definitely see Murphy or Dempsey coming in at 15.

Crash

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Thought Fitz was very quite on Saturday. Prob go Bowe, Horgan, Kearney for the back three, felt Shaggy did his best to make an impact when he came on.

Tbh, I don't think it was on Fitz's head. Himself and BOD saw very little ball during the entire match, with ROG and Reddan preferring to either send it to the pack, or out wide as quickly as possible.

Noopti

Pretty much agree with most people, I'd only bring in Hayes and Wallace. Switch Kearney to FB and put Earls on the wing. What we also need is big impact from the bench, we might need it in the final 10 minutes.

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
DOC
POC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
Reddan
O Gara
Earls
Fitzgerald
O Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney

Bench: Best, O'Kelly, Buckley, Quinlan, O'Leary, P. Wallace, Murphy

Colm_OReilly

Going Forward wrote: »

Tbh, I don't think it was on Fitz's head. Himself and BOD saw very little ball during the entire match, with ROG and Reddan preferring to either send it to the pack, or out wide as quickly as possible.

Good point. Do you reckon this was conditions or tactics dominated?

I know it's early in the AI's, and Kidney's career, and the Centre-Partnerships career, and it's unusually cynical of me, but I'm wondering if this magical partnership isn't all it's cracked up to be.

God, even as I write it it seems overly negative. Honestly, it's just a thought.

I'll shut up now.

deepriver

couldnt see this post anywhere else so here goes my pick for best team...

front 5 same as v's canada

ferris, wallace & quinlan at flank

reddan, o'gara half backs

Horgan and O'Driscoll at centre

fitzgerald and earls on wings

kearney at full back

pushed the most inexperienced players out to the wings, but they should also give the kiwis some trouble as they are all livewires

redroar1942

You didn't look too hard did you

DannyMach

deepriver wrote: »

Horgan and O'Driscoll at centre

Would have Wallace, Fitzgerald, Earls and Trimble all ahead of Shaggy for these reasons. Horgan doesn't have a distrubuting game nor is he particularly good at creating space for others to set up opportunities to offload so for a pivotal position in a backline, he brings little to the table. Has proved it in the last two 6Ns that he's not up to playing IC on the international stage, ie. France at Croker and England in Twickenham.

deepriver

DannyMach wrote: »

Would have Wallace, Fitzgerald, Earls and Trimble all ahead of Shaggy for these reasons. Horgan doesn't have a distrubuting game nor is he particularly good at creating space for others to set up opportunities to offload so for a pivotal position in a backline, he brings little to the table. Has proved it in the last two 6Ns that he's not up to playing IC on the international stage, ie. France at Croker and England in Twickenham.

he set up the last try against canada with a lovely long pass, looked hungry and intelligent on the ball... never was a fan off trimble , he always seems a half second of the pace in an international, horgan on the other hand is a proven try scorer + creator

besty

John Hayes not starting? I also think Heaslip should really start the game. Himself and Ferris as quality ball carriers balanced by Wallace at 7 sounds good to me.

DannyMach

deepriver wrote: »

he set up the last try against canada with a lovely long pass, looked hungry and intelligent on the ball... never was a fan off trimble , he always seems a half second of the pace in an international, horgan on the other hand is a proven try scorer + creator

The pass wasn't exactly a lovely pass. Bowe had to check and hop up for it which in other cases can cost tries. Also that was against Canada and after he had been put through a gap so it's going a bit far to say he's a proven creator or distributor suitable for IC based on that when he's failed to do it against good defences.

deepriver

DannyMach wrote: »

The pass wasn't exactly a lovely pass. Bowe had to check and hop up for it which in other cases can cost tries. Also that was against Canada and after he had been put through a gap so it's going a bit far to say he's a proven creator or distributor suitable for IC based on that when he's failed to do it against good defences.

if you look at the reverse camera angle on the pass (in the replay) there is a canadian lad standing right in the way with his hand out waiting for the pass, so I though Horgan did well to complete it.... may only have been Canada but I didnt see anyone else creating tries like that

was a fan of Heaslip up until the Canada match, didnt think he did quite enough, although he took his try well, thought all round his impact could have been bigger

SpencerJames

deepriver wrote: »

couldnt see this post anywhere else so here goes my pick for best team...

front 5 same as v's canada

ferris, wallace & quinlan at flank

reddan, o'gara half backs

Horgan and O'Driscoll at centre

fitzgerald and earls on wings

kearney at full back

pushed the most inexperienced players out to the wings, but they should also give the kiwis some trouble as they are all livewires

Possibly the worst possible team Kidney could select.

No 7? madness,

Horgan at centre, madness.

[Jackass]

I've heard a lot of people mention the Fitz / BO'D centre partnership. That game was not a centres game at all. Especially in the first half. I'd say the stats for ball carries out of centre is about as low as you'll ever see from an Irish team. They were targeted out wide and through the pack.

Earls is in big trouble if he starts at FB in this game. It's got to be either Kearney or Dempsey. If Earls starts he should be on the wing in a swop with Kearney. I can't see it happening though. I think the only change to the backline will be either Horgan or Dempsey in for Earls.

The backrow is where all the big calls are. I'd like to see Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip. Quinlan to come on. Maybe doesn't have the 80 in him in a game like this, but will be needed out there for at least 40. Fantastic player.

Stev_o

[Jackass] wrote: »

I've heard a lot of people mention the Fitz / BO'D centre partnership. That game was not a centres game at all. Especially in the first half. I'd say the stats for ball carries out of centre is about as low as you'll ever see from an Irish team. They were targeted out wide and through the pack.

I dunno i havent been impressed by the BOD Fitz centre combo at all this season hasnt really sparked like people though it would, i would prefer to see Wallace and Fitz which would be much better imo.

Anyway my prediction is that we will loose dew to McCaw having a field day we dont have any players to challenge him AND more crucially i think the ref is going to god damn awful.

Crash

Really? Heaslip had a serious number of carries, gained some hard yards, thought he had a grand game in the end. My call for MotM would have been Ferris first, then a toss up between himself and Tommy Bowe. But thats just me.

Serenity Now!

Stev_o wrote: »

Anyway my prediction is that we will loose dew to McCaw having a field day

He's a great player but he's not a one-man team. Quinlan will start and do everything he can to put him and Rod off their game. Ferris to come on afterwards.
I've a fifty euro bet with a friend that Ali Williams heads for the 'sun-bun'.

Stev_o

Serenity Now! wrote: »

He's a great player but he's not a one-man team. Quinlan will start and do everything he can to put him and Rod off their game. Ferris to come on afterwards.
I've a fifty euro bet with a friend that Ali Williams heads for the 'sun-bun'.

Watch the try nations and you ll see that New Zealand lost every match that McCaw wasnt apart of and won every match he was apart of.

Dave Joyce

Jaysus, some people see things funny....or maybe I've just been hit in the head too much for too long but I didn't rate Jamie Heaslips performance for Leinster recently but I thought he had a very good game against Canada and yet a few people didn't think he had a good game

My call for MotM would have been Ferris first, then a toss up between himself and Tommy Bowe. But thats just me.

No my man, I agree with you there:)!

Couple of points. Definately think Earls should START the game at least, maybe in the centre, (instead of Fitz?) or wing and might as well throw him in at the deep end and see how he copes (and I think he will), but think that Geordan Murphy should start at FB. My backrow would be Heaslip with Ferris and Wallace and if necessary bring on Quinlan as an impact sub, and would go with Horan, Flannery and Hayes in the front row, with POC and MOK second row as I don't think DOC did enough to get a start. Other than those, I would leave things as they are.

Serenity Now!

Stev_o wrote: »

Watch the try nations and you ll see that New Zealand lost every match that McCaw wasnt apart of and won every match he was apart of.

I've been to Bledisloe and Tri Nations games and seen George Smith and Schalk Burger wipe him off the floor when their own respective backrows were clicking.
As I said, he's not a one-man team. If Kaino and/or So'aialo don't link up, he's left to do it all and thats when they get beaten to the ruck ball. Since you advise me to watch the Tri Nations, watch the Hong Kong test, in particular the first half.

yeraulone

...

IRELAND team to face New Zealand at Croke Park on Saturday, 15, 5:15pm:

G Dempsey (Leinster); T Bowe (Ospreys), B O'Driscoll (Leinster, captain), L Fitzgerald (Leinster), R Kearney (Leinster); R O'Gara (Munster), T O'Leary (Munster); M Horan (Munster), R Best (Ulster), J Hayes (Munster), D O'Callaghan (Munster), P O'Connell (Munster), A Quinlan (Munster), D Wallace (Munster), J Heaslip (Leinster).

Replacements: J Flannery (Munster), T Buckley (Munster), S Ferris (Ulster), S Jennings (Ulster), E Reddan (Wasps), P Wallace (Ulster), K Earls (Munster).

redroar1942

Fair play to Kidney he's not afraid to make changes. Big call in droping Ferris but Quinlan is perfect for slowing down the Kiwi back row. What a step up fo O'leary , I think he'll be grand.

Aidric

I've no gripes with the selection. Earls could be a good impact substitution if the game is tight with fifteen mins to go.

Noopti

Nice team. I like that he picked TOL, I had Reddan in my team but it is good to see Kidney willing to surprise people.

What I really like is that there is definite impact off the bench!

il gatto

Surprised Horgan didn't make the 22. Thought he would've been an option if Kearney struggled defensively. Not that I think Kearney is bad in defence, but Horgan is proven defensivly and is a big tackler. Ferris can feel a little hard done by, but glad to see Quinlan there. Just the sort of aggressive 6 we need for this. Wallace had to start at 7. Whatever the debate over whether he's a true 7 or not, he's a big game player, very physical and dealt with McCaw pretty well last time around.
I see Jennings is down as Ulster on that list. He'll get a shock:)

Sparky14

Not particularly happy with Tomas O'Leary, think hes definitely the least talented out of himself, reddan and stringer. It will remain to be seen if his endevour will make up for it. Really hope he plays like he did against Gloucester (where he was fantastic) rather than against Saracens (dreadful that day).

Frankie Lee

I was wondering why Leicesters top try scorer this season and last years supporters player of the year. is never even considered to be in an Ireland squad.

anonymous_joe

NEW ZEALAND (v Ireland): M Muliaina; J Rokocoko, C Smith, M Nonu, S Sivivatu; D Carter, J Cowan; T Woodcock, K Mealamu, N Tialata, B Thorn, A Williams, J Kaino, R McCaw (Capt), R So'oialo. Replacements: C Flynn, J Afoa, A Boric, K Read, P Weepu, S Donald, I Toweava.

I'm slightly scared, but I do think we've a fighting chance against this team.

anonymous_joe

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I was wondering why Leicesters top try scorer this season and last years supporters player of the year. is never even considered to be in an Ireland squad.

I've asked that myself before.

Heroditas

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I've asked that myself before.

How many tackles does he need to miss in international matches? He's a defensive liability because of this and he does not bring as much physicality to a game as the likes of Kearney, Bowe or Dempsey do.

ALH-06

I'm really disappointed that Horgan's not in the 22. He'd make a great impact sub against the physicality of the All Blacks after 60 mins.

I'm not so sure about Earls' meriting a bench spot? Great talent, but we already have cover for centre and fullback in the 22 and I don't think he has the physicality or presence yet to make a real impact off the bench, like Horgan would.

O'Leary at SH! He's a far more limited player than Redden and has one of the worst passes I've seen from a scrumhalf. Very slow and bad technique.

Frankie Lee

Heroditas wrote: »

How many tackles does he need to miss in international matches? He's a defensive liability because of this and he does not bring as much physicality to a game as the likes of Kearney, Bowe or Dempsey do.

Thats funny because he hasn't played an international match yet.

Heroditas

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Thats funny because he hasn't played an international match yet.

Aaaaarghh! The grossest of gross assumptions made by myself! Assumed that it was Geordan Murphy who was being discussed.