Irish squad for AB game

ALH-06

redroar1942 wrote: »

I think your point about Earls is skewed. Although centre might be his prefered position he is clearly a better 15. In three years time there'll only be him and Kearney for 15. Blood him now against the donkeys.

Come on, it's simply not true that Earls is a better full back than centre! What on earth are you basing your logic on? I've seen him just a couple of times playing in the Ireland underage set-up and he's an unbelievable centre. He's tailor-made for that position with his build, angled running, handling skills, great feet and physicality.

And long term we need someone to partner Fitz in the centre, when the Great One retires. Earls must be developed at centre for the good of Irish rugby.

Sparky14

I agree think Earl's future is definitely in the centre, its the position best suited to his talents.

bamboozle

NDM wrote: »

heaslip and wallace will be able to match mccaws pace no problem

i think he means pace on the ground, when someone is tackled a good no. 7 will be there to quickly turn over ball or at least pin the ball carrier to ensure he concedes a penalty for not releasing, this is not a strong facet of Wallaces game, Mccaw is the best in the world at it.

High&Low

The difference between Kearney at wing and the next best winger is bigger than the difference between Kearney and Dempsey at full back, therefore Ireland (and Leinster) are best placed by having these two play.

Horgan doesn't deserve to be in the 22 as he has not been in form for the last couple of years. He is not good enough in the centre, probably the reason he hasn't really been played in that position for the last couple of years.

It does seem a little strange that Earls was selected at full back last week, I can only guess it was to have a look at him on the International stage while at the same time looking at Bowe and Kearney on the wings and O'Driscoll and Fitzgerald in the centre. He deserves to be on the bench as he is more versatile than Horgan (who can only play 14).

I think Ferris is the only unlucky player, he could not have done more last weekend.

Hope O'Leary doesn't disappoint.

Looks like Geordan Murphy's international career is over

Noopti

Ireland need to make a statement of intent early on in this game, get the All Blakks reeling. Similar to what Munster did to Sale after Chabal caught that restart.

If the lads go out there fighting and physically dominating the All Blacks up front they have a great chance. Also, hopefully Les Kiss has been working with them to get an agressive rush defence going as the All Blacks have shown many times before that if your drift against them, they will kill you.

D.S.

Interesting times ahead in the backline for Ireland. With BOD, Fitz, Horgan, Bowe, Dempsey, Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Murphy, Darcy (when fit) and to a lesser extent Dowling all in and fighting for a place - there's going to be a lot to debate.

If Dempsey stays fit and in form, he will keep the full back slot, leaving Kearney and Bowe for wing. That leaves BOD and A.N. Other for centre.

We'll know more after the Autumn internationals, but I think Fitzy might be the man to lose out ahead of the 6 nations. The guy is quality but Trimble and potentially Earls in there, his spot is up for grabs.

Noopti

D.S. wrote: »

Interesting times ahead in the backline for Ireland. With BOD, Fitz, Horgan, Bowe, Dempsey, Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Murphy, Darcy (when fit) and to a lesser extent Dowling all in and fighting for a place - there's going to be a lot to debate.

If Dempsey stays fit and in form, he will keep the full back slot, leaving Kearney and Bowe for wing. That leaves BOD and A.N. Other for centre.

We'll know more after the Autumn internationals, but I think Fitzy might be the man to lose out ahead of the 6 nations. The guy is quality but Trimble and potentially Earls in there, his spot is up for grabs.

I would put Earls and Fitz above Trimble tbh. I think Dempsey is only going to be a stop gap until the younger guys gain a bit more experience.
In my opinion Declan is eventually aiming for Kearney at full back, Fitz and Bowe on the wings and BOD and Earls in centre. Fitz and Earls are possibly interchangeable in that.

D.S.

Noopti wrote: »

I would put Earls and Fitz above Trimble tbh. I think Dempsey is only going to be a stop gap until the younger guys gain a bit more experience.
In my opinion Declan is eventually aiming for Kearney at full back, Fitz and Bowe on the wings and BOD and Earls in centre. Fitz and Earls are possibly interchangeable in that.

Completely agree with the long term shape of the team. For this year's six nations though, I think Dempsey is the man in posession at FB presuming no injuries/dip in form. Wouldn't be suprised to see Trimble in there. He is underrated in my view plus defensively he is better than Earls/Fitz at this stage.

Noopti

Yeah, Dempsey will still be in the mix for the next 6N for sure. It would be a gradual transistion more than a case of dropping him. But Kearney is getting more and more assured in the FB role and it won't be long until he is one of the first names on the teamsheet I would guess.

Dempsey will more than likey be 15 for the Argentina game also. He is so steady under the high ball and we know the Argies love to boot the ball around.

dub_skav

thehighground wrote: »

Think some people think don't see the overall package of what some gives to the position that they play. POC is really athletic and outstanding in the air and in the loose. DOC is great at hitting the rucks and is as strong as a bull, and good at the other things. They are a good combination and that is why they will remain the two first choice locks playing together. They compliment each others strengths and weaknesses and make a good team.

Some people think that you can just throw the best players together and it will work.

I do know how partnerships work and also that some of the great 2nd row pairings have been an athlete and a grafter, e.g. Jones and Brooke.
However, O'Kelly and O'Connell did work for a long time until O'Callaghan proved his mettle all those years ago. But now O'Callaghan is plying below his best and a kick up the arse by playing the in form lock in the country ahead of him might be just what he needs.

Based purely on form you could call for O'Kelly and O'Callaghan to play to preserve your complimentary pairing idea, but we all know that won't happen because we all expect O'Connell to up his game for the big occasion

zAbbo

I think the combination works well, Girv and Rob are different types of full backs.

But Girv is the type who doesn't make mistakes, Rob at times chooses the wrong option from full back - running into trouble.

The combination when you see it at Leinster is all most like having two full backs, where Rob can drop back to the left side when needed, and Girv can join the line at right wing.

We've got an exciting back line where I think any of the back 5 are capable of playing in each others positions, Bowe is comfortable at 13 and 15, Luke can play wing and FB, BOD is a monster who can play anywhere.

I think this helps us vary the attack, with what is essentially the Leinster back line + the form Irish winger Tommy Bowe.

Forget about arguing about flat out pace, this will all be out line breaking and creating space - something which I think the players picked are most capable of.

The game more now than ever requires a kicking game in the backline, the balance is right with Luke/Rob with their left, and Girv/Bowe/BOD with their right. In particular Rob and Girv have outstanding boots.

Right now Kearney is the best left wing option, anyone else in their would mean dropping Girv.

I think Kidney has picked the right team, and TOL probally shades it on the type of game we're going to play. Reddan off the bench isn't a bad prospect either.

Too many times we've played the AB's and they had nothing to worry about from our SH (Stringer) who was just going to pass out to ROG, TOL has a more complete game and thats what we need.

I'm not saying we're going to hammer them, but I don't think we have anything to fear.

Roll on Saturday.

Noopti

Also choosing TOL, apart from being the form SH, creates another problem for the All Blacks. He is an unknown quantity to them. I would say that Henry had his guys studying Reddan and his style of play, then Kidney chooses TOL and Henry has to try and figure out this "new" guy!

Kidney has played a great card with TOL, and he has Reddan on the bench should the need arise, but I doubt he will need to bring him on unless in the last 10.

Under EOS Henry could have had his squad analysing the team they would face 6 months before the test. Under Kidney it is different, he will keep opposing coaches on their toes.

Nukem

[Jackass] wrote: »

The bench is extremly weak imo. Not only for it's personnell, but also for the impact it can have

Com'on thats not right. How can you not call Ferris an impact sub or Reddan for that matter. Think thats a very good sub bench and with the amount of utilities backs in the squad and team, it allows for adjustment.

Would agree on teh OH scenario big time

Noopti

Nukem wrote: »

Com'on thats not right. How can you not call Ferris an impact sub or Reddan for that matter. Think thats a very good sub bench and with the amount of utilities backs in the squad and team, it allows for adjustment.

Would agree on teh OH scenario big time

Agreed, bench is very good. I can imagine Ferris will be chomping at the bit to get on and smash some Kiwis.

EdgarAllenPoo

Noopti wrote: »

Also choosing TOL, apart from being the form SH, creates another problem for the All Blacks. He is an unknown quantity to them.QUOTE]

I wouldn't really think that would be the case for a team like the All Blacks, TOL has played more than enough games for them to study him so I don't think he'll be an "unknown factor".

It is a risk playing him in such a high profile test but I think it's the best time to do it, RWC ranking aside the 6 Nations is Ireland's bread and butter and we need to see how he fairs against strong opposition.

Better to do that now than in the middle of the 6 Nations.

Noopti

I wouldn't really think that would be the case for a team like the All Blacks, TOL has played more than enough games for them to study him so I don't think he'll be an "unknown factor".

It is a risk playing him in such a high profile test but I think it's the best time to do it, RWC ranking aside the 6 Nations is Ireland's bread and butter and we need to see how he fairs against strong opposition.

Better to do that now than in the middle of the 6 Nations.

This is his first start. He didn't feature at all against Canada (due to injury) and now suddenly he is starting against the All Blacks. His selection took a lot of us by surprise, and we watch the Magner League/Heineken Cup and are much more aware of his form. So to say his selection isn't a surprise to the All Blacks is a bit odd to me.

I would bet a large sum of money Henry was planning for Reddan to start, and had analysed and planned the game with this in mind. Not to say he didn't look at TOL at all, but I would say he was at the back of his mind more than anything else. The All Blacks have played against Ireland with Reddan, TOL is definitely an unknown factor for them.

D.S.

The unknown quantity aspect is blown out of proportion a bit. New Zealand if they play to their strengths alone can beat any team when they are on form.

TOL in for Reddan won't mean a tactical win for Kidney because the All-Blacks aren't as familiar with him. For all the pre-match analysis that goes into this, you still focus on your own game first.

The advantage of playing TOL now is that we get to see his form ahead of the six nations. Delighted we are getting to see him against the ABs really as we know what Reddan is about at this stage..

Noopti

It of course makes a difference. I'm not saying it will be the difference between winning and losing, but it is a difference.
Some examples (very simplistic!)
If Ireland played Stringer, the All Blacks would know he won't break around the fringes, so their backrow can target O'Gara without fear of Stringer exploiting any subsequent gaps.

If Ireland played Reddan they know he has a breaking game and a good box kick, so they would need to keep things covered around the base of the ruck, freeing up O'Gara a little bit. However, they woud also know that Reddan takes a step or two before releasing a pass, giving them a little more time to launch into our backs.

With TOL, they know little. Sure, they may have watched a few tapes now they know he is playing, but it still doesn't substitute playing against him, which they have done with Stringer and Reddan.

So, yes...it won't make a massive difference, but I think it will make some sort of a difference especially in the initial stages of the game before they figure out TOL's game. And in a game like this, little differences can have a bigger impact than normal.

Just my two cents! But all our conjecture will mean nothing once the game begins!!

zAbbo

Well it's fair to say that NZ know about as much as we do about TOL at international level.

Who knows he could have a blinder or an absolute stinker, risky - but that's what we want with Kidney, someone willing to make big calls, and I'm sure he know's more than anyone about Reddan, Stringer and O'Leary.

Noopti

zAbbo wrote: »

Well it's fair to say that NZ know about as much as we do about TOL at international level.

Who knows he could have a blinder or an absolute stinker, risky - but that's what we want with Kidney, someone willing to make big calls, and I'm sure he know's more than anyone about Reddan, Stringer and O'Leary.

Very true. To beat the All Blacks you nearly always have to take some risks. Hopefully this pays off for us and TOL.

RugbyFanatic

Just on the backrow aspect I know initially I favoured a combination of Ferris,Wallace and Heaslip but on further thought I am actually quite content with Quinlan slotting in there. Against NZ we'll need an aggressive, cute (cheating) player. We need to beat them at their own game and I have no doubt Quinlan can be as cute as McCaw. Furthermore Ferris will be a great impact sub to have when Quinlan tires.

I am very disappointed with DOC starting however. I thought he had a very poor game against Canada and don't think he has performed all season. With MOK and POC you would have one of the most experienced 4 and 5 pairing in rugby and two excellent options at lineout.

Once again in regards to SH although I initially said I would like Reddan I can see why Kidney has O'Leary in there. He is a largely unknown threat to NZ and his selection alone means we won't be predictable and NZ will have to be cautious which in turn should have the effect of freeing up O'Gara.

Suprised Horgan isn't on the bench he would be great to bring on if we are leading with 10 or 20 minutes to go to steady the ship and lock up our defence. Very surprised actually.

With Jennings on the bench we have the option to bring him on if NZ are overturning everything we throw at them. I have Wallace in there ahead of him but if Wallace can't keep up with McCaw on the ground then I do think we should bring on Jennings. Whatever about Wallace's ball carrying ability the fact is if we are losing posession its a null and void point anyway so bringing Jennings on and losing the threat Wallace posesses with ball in hand won't be so detrimental.

I really think O'Gara has to utilize his centres more. I believe this was touched on by the RTE panel after the Canadian match. I feel O'Gara isnt bringing them in as much as he should be and isn't creating those passes that put them into space or allow them to take a nice angled line.

Flannery will be an excellent impact sub to bring on I feel also.

And to the poster that said the bench has no impact????
Flannery, Ferris, Reddan and Earls are excellent impact subs!!

redroar1942

Good post. In defence of O Gara it wasn't the conditions for slinging it about, Wallace fared little better when he slotted into 10.

I thought DOC was fine against Canada did all the basics of lineout/scrum/rucking well. I think Kidneys thing with regard to O Kelly might have been influenced by his desire to have to backrows on the bench. I think we can all agree that Ferris and Jennings on the bench is risky but we can see his reasoning for it.

With regard to O Kelly, who is playing better then DOC, he'll never last the full 80 meaning Kidney would have to have a sub second row on the bench and scrap his backrow plan.

We'll probably see a different squad for the Argie game as Kidney is obviously not afraid to make the changes.

RuggieBear

whatever about his passing against the canadians (too wet to fling it about tbh) his place kicking was unbelievable

gcgirl

All i can say is bring on the All Blacks :-) really looking forward to it i would have loved to have Gone to the game but a little bit skint this week :-( really good team and subs are really good impact subs ! Glad quinny has got a run out he is as cunning as the get !

Noopti

Yeah, I'd love to be going to the game on Saturday. I will have to make do with the Argie game next weekend though!

That still should be a great game, Ireland/Argentina games are always good!