Dublin Outer Orbital Route (DOOR)

magicbastarder

Consonata wrote: »

gives cyclists everywhere a bad name.

a bad name? i've had a few drinks, but i really am struggling with this.

_Kaiser_

Deedsie wrote: »

200km of fuel, plus tolls, plus your inevitable medical expenses from sitting in a car 4 hours a day would easily make up the cost of renting in Dublin.

It's your own fault if you choose to live 100km from where you work and piss and moan that it is someone else's fault but your own.

My rent is expensive but at least I can safely cycle to and from work without having to give up 4 hours of my free time to sit in a metal box and a strip of tarmac.

Actually it only takes me about an hour each way as I can start/finish later and work from home, but not everyone has that option.

It's absolutely ridiculous however that my choice is either to commute or piss away over double what I'm paying now (even factoring in the diesel and running costs) to live in a 2 bed apartment in a decent area of Dublin close to the office - and that's before you add in bills and the higher cost of living. If it makes you feel better though, I'd happily avoid Dublin altogether (and I say that AS a Dub) if I had the option.

The current rent prices are not sustainable - something we're seeing by the increased volume of long distance commuters and people losing the roof over their heads - and need to be addressed by increased sustainable supply and better public transport links that bring people where they need to be, without the scenic detour via An Lar.

magicbastarder

i doubt you'll find too many people disagreeing with that; the rental market is dysfunctional and the PT network needs a hell of a lot of work.
i'm fortunate enough to live within what is (for me, anyway) a cycleable distance from work (albeit with the caveat that my employer provides excellent facilities for cyclists).

HivemindXX

Consonata wrote: »

This is a separate issue. Can't cycle to work if there are no houses in the city to cycle from. Its a matter of availability not choice. Pretending otherwise gives cyclists everywhere a bad name.

I don't think people who claim they have to live 100km from their work or that that is a typical commute are doing their own name any favours. Or people who claim there are no places to live in or near the city. You just can't have everything you want and if you put the commute distance on the bottom of your priority list I don't have a lot of sympathy with your demands to spend billions on motorways to facilitate you.

According to a CSO press release based on the 2006 census urban workers travelled an average of 12.8km to work.
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/census2006results/volume12/volume_12_press_release.pdf

magicbastarder

there used to be a woman in our place who commuted from armagh to leopardstown every day - she drove to the train station (at either newry or dundalk, can't remember which), changed onto the DART at connolly, and got the feeder bus from blackrock DART station up to the office.

daheff

n97 mini wrote: »

Instead councillors are voting to build 4000 houses in Celbridge...

They are voting to put the houses where they want them rather than reject the idea and have a 'solution' pushed down to them from Bord Planeala...same in Leixlip/Maynooth.

Deedsie wrote: »

200km of fuel, plus tolls, plus your inevitable medical expenses from sitting in a car 4 hours a day would easily make up the cost of renting in Dublin.

What inevitable medical expenses???

You might want to cost that out to prove its as expensive as living in Dublin

Deedsie wrote: »

It's your own fault if you choose to live 100km from where you work and piss and moan that it is someone else's fault but your own.

Not everybody has the "choice". People's decisions to live in certain areas are not all determined by the cost of rent/mortgage. There are other issues like childcare /family/access to services etc.

n97 mini

daheff wrote: »

They are voting to put the houses where they want them rather than reject the idea and have a 'solution' pushed down to them from Bord Planeala...same in Leixlip/Maynooth.

I get that. My point is it's daft to be building 4000 houses in Celbridge at all. 90% will be commuters to Dublin. The shortage is in Dublin, not Celbridge.

ThisRegard

Consonata wrote: »

I don't think another orbital road is the answer really. It'll only be as congested as the M50 is currently.

Real answer is to discourage private car usage and fix the mess of a bus system.

Outside of the M50 it's a futile exercise, car use is essential really. All public transport goes into the city centre, there's nothing orbital bar 1 or 2 half hearted efforts.

bk wrote: »

Even if their are good commuting options, many people still take the car, even if it is longer (see all the people trying to drive into Dublin City Center every day!).

I could always get door to door into my office in the city centre faster by private car and bike than by public transport. Public transport is not the panacea unless you live on a rail line or on a quality bus corridor with pretty much direct bus routes.

_Kaiser_

Deedsie wrote: »

You work in South Dublin? You used to rent in South Dublin? You moved to somewhere 100km away from where you work and now rent an apartment there? Is that correct? And you think you have any reason to complain about traffic or lack of roads infrastructure? Ridiculous.

How much could you possibly be saving a year to justify a decision like that? Crazy

I think you need to take a breath and relax a bit there.. it's too nice a day to be getting so wound up (and as someone else said, you're not doing your argument any favours)

I pay less than half the rent I'd be paying if I was still renting in South County. Add in approx 250 in diesel per month and it's STILL over 800 less than the €1700+ I'd be paying back in Dublin (from a quick Daft search).
Even adding in extra things like tyres and wear and tear and it's STILL far better value.

€1700-1900 a month for a 2 bed apartment in D18 though is ridiculous.. there's f-all in the area besides more housing and the overpriced Dundrum SC. As I said it's not sustainable and a quick read of the Accommodation forum will show the problems it's causing.

Two things need to happen...

- Property supply needs to increase significantly so that prices come back to more realistic levels (and 2007 rates are NOT something we should be aspiring to long term).

- PT needs to be cheaper, more reliable, and go to where people want to be.
If I wanted to use the PT alternative now it'd mean a bus/train to An Lar and then walk to the LUAS in Stephens Green. How long would THAT take me? 3 hours each way maybe? How much would it cost?
How about instead we build a luas parallel to the M50 with massive P&R facilities at the 3 major junctions (M3, M4 M7) and feeder/shuttle services at stops along the line to the major business parks in the area (Ballycoolin/Damastown, Ballymount, Sandyford, Cherrywood etc).
Think of the traffic problems that would solve on the M50 and inside it for those who don't want to/can't live in Dublin but still have to work there.

But that'd require long term thinking and investment.. not something we do well.

Seth Brundle

n97 mini wrote: »

I get that. My point is it's daft to be building 4000 houses in Celbridge at all. 90% will be commuters to Dublin. The shortage is in Dublin, not Celbridge.

Have a look at the proposed resedential zones - much of it is away from the train line and will suit car journeys. Surely more of it should have been on the southern end, closer to Hazelhatch.
http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/LocalAreaPlans/DraftCelbridgeLocalAreaPlan2017-2023/Map%2013.1%20Land%20use%20zoning%20map_%20B.pdf

At least with the Leixlip plan, they stuck the bulk of the proposed resedential area north of the trainline at Confey.

n97 mini

kbannon wrote: »

At least with the Leixlip plan, they stuck the bulk of the proposed resedential area north of the trainline at Confey.

And ironically the Confey development hinges on the dual carriageway being built through St Catherine's Park by Fingal Co Co.

Banjoxed

kbannon wrote: »

Fingal CoCo want to build a dual carriageway going from Leixlip to Clonee through St. Catherines Park.
This will include the first bridge built that crosses the Liffey and is sure to become an alternative to the M50 (but without the toll cost).
Waste if money IMO.

Yeah, tolls are a waste of money alright. Fully agree.

Seth Brundle

Banjoxed wrote: »

Yeah, tolls are a waste of money alright. Fully agree.

Not sure what your point is but I didn't suggest that tolls were a waste of money!