Ireland squad to play Poland

mike65

Poland were 9/1 to win by two goals. Just as well I didn't bother!

Mike

anonymous_joe

Great ending for a game.

COme on Ireland!

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Poland were 9/1 to win by two goals. Just as well I didn't bother!

Mike

Nice edit there mike :rolleyes:

Tom65

What's happening? I accidentally turned off the stream during half time, then couldn't get it working again.

spiderdan

good ending to a terrible game, I really cant see any positives in that performance- what has Trap learnt, Whealan is crap?? Gibson is too inexperienced?

McShane= Magnifient!! Lol

delta_bravo

Ended up losing 3-2

mike65

A ninja edit woud be invisible.

Mike

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

A ninja edit woud be invisible.

Mike

Sherifu

Isn't Irish football supposed to improve in recession times? Maybe it needs a bit more time

leninbenjamin

Sherifu wrote: »

Isn't Irish football supposed to improve in recession times? Maybe it needs a bit more time

need to wait til all the parents can no longer afford to buy their Kids Playstation and Xboxes and the kids are forced back onto the street to play footy again like we did in the days of old.

Sherifu

leninbenjamin wrote: »

need to wait til all the parents can no longer afford to buy their Kids Playstation and Xboxes and the kids are forced back onto the street to play footy again like we did in the days of old.

Oh ya, jumpers for goalposts.

Just watching the end of the highlights. Some nice goals and an exciting finish.

Tom65

I think we just ran out of English players to play. No emigration over the last 18 years or so. We'll need another bout of emigration, wait 20 odd years. Then we'll be back on track.

mike65

The Irish team in 20 years will be black and have names like Kazimierz

Mike

Guy:Incognito

mike65 wrote: »

The Irish team in 20 years will be black and have names like Kazimierz

Mike

There should be a couple of Kunle Elukanlo jnr's in there too.:)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

leninbenjamin wrote: »

need to wait til all the parents can no longer afford to buy their Kids Playstation and Xboxes and the kids are forced back onto the street to play footy again like we did in the days of old.

Problem then is, how do you stop tabloids from convincing said parents that all their kids' sports coaches are paedophiles?

Tom65

Incidentally, how did Keith Andrews play when he came on? I've been curious to see how he does for Ireland. He's a different type of midfielder, one different from Gibson or Whelan.

Xavi6

So we lost a friendly. When's the DVD out?! :pac:

newballsplease

we dont seem to control the midfield at all with whelan and gibson there...

Xavi6

Of course we don't and there are a number of reasons why.

- Neither Whelan or Gibson are imposing figures. The former is 5ft10 and the latter is just about 6ft. Now I know size isn't everything but when you are lacking a lot of the other fundamentals of the game then stature can sometimes compensate for that. Neither have it.

- Both are horribly inexperienced at top level football. Great to see Gibson get a run out for United last weekend but that's not enough to have you prepped for international football. Same goes for Whelan and his cameos at Stoke.

- They'd never played together (significantly anyway) before the Cyprus game. They wouldn't know each others' games inside out like good midfield partnerships. That however is something that can be worked on if they are indeed to be out pairing for the rest of the qualifiers.

- Neither, imo, has an eye for a pass. They are your run of the mill grafters and are too similar for my liking. Watching someone like A. Reid or Ireland get their head up and pick a pass from 40 yards away is what we need. Gibson and Whelan don't offer that spark that will have opposition teams on the back foot.

A lot of it isn't down to them. They were thrown in at the deep end and were basically given the option to sink or swin.

Right now I think they're floating.

Dave!

The Polish fans were awesome tonight

Pretty crap match for the most part

Good ending though!

Duffer was pretty decent from what I can recall. Hunty was lethal (relatively speaking...) when he came on

Dunno what else to take from the game tbh Fabianski was pretty good

newballsplease

Xavi6 wrote: »

Of course we don't and there are a number of reasons why.

- Neither Whelan or Gibson are imposing figures. The former is 5ft10 and the latter is just about 6ft. Now I know size isn't everything but when you are lacking a lot of the other fundamentals of the game then stature can sometimes compensate for that. Neither have it.

- Both are horribly inexperienced at top level football. Great to see Gibson get a run out for United last weekend but that's not enough to have you prepped for international football. Same goes for Whelan and his cameos at Stoke.

- They'd never played together (significantly anyway) before the Cyprus game. They wouldn't know each others' games inside out like good midfield partnerships. That however is something that can be worked on if they are indeed to be out pairing for the rest of the qualifiers.

- Neither, imo, has an eye for a pass. They are your run of the mill grafters and are too similar for my liking. Watching someone like A. Reid or Ireland get their head up and pick a pass from 40 yards away is what we need. Gibson and Whelan don't offer that spark that will have opposition teams on the back foot.

A lot of it isn't down to them. They were thrown in at the deep end and were basically given the option to sink or swin.

Right now I think they're floating.

but it looks like(bar injuriess) these 2 will line up against georgia and bulgaria in our next 2 home games.... im worried.
does every team not play with a def midfielder and an attacking mid,if you get me....these 2 both look like they sit infront of the defence the entire match thus inviting the oppostions midfield to attack and control the central midfield.
i dont like traps system one bit. too cautious, and we wer found out tonight.

lostexpectation

dunphy is denoucing trappitoni

Mr.Nice Guy

Terrible result. I knew this would happen. He picked a poor squad and a poor team and it showed. Carsley even at his age is better than Gibson and Whelan combined. Gibson might have potential for the future but certainly not now. Whelan simply isn't good enough at this level.

I must say my belief in Trapattoni is shrinking. He can't seem to get the basics right and has shown a stubborn streak of sticking with players who haven't been able to cut the mustard.

Wednesday it was Poland but soon it could be Georgia or Bulgaria leaving us with egg on our faces. I want to see him show more of a ruthless streak. If players aren't up to it then leave 'em out. No McShane, no Gibson, no Whelan, no Folan and the return of Carsley, Andy Reid, Joey O'Brien and Delap. I'd also welcome new caps for the likes of Owen Garvan and Cillian Sheridan.

Spud83

Dave! wrote: »

The Polish fans were awesome tonight

The certainly were. Made for a very good atmosphere.

Dave! wrote: »

Pretty crap match for the most part

Good ending though!

Also true. Ireland just seemed to lack so much going forward and it was completely the midfield's fault. The did not provide a link between defense and midfield and it left our forwards either competing for hopefully balls in the air, or hopeful balls down the wing.

Now I am not saying its the mid fielders fault as everyone could see that was going to happen when they got picked. And you can get away with it when its 0-0 and you are just hoping your forwards can grab a goal up front. But once you go behind that plan is out the window.

Dave! wrote: »

Duffer was pretty decent from what I can recall. Hunty was lethal (relatively speaking...) when he came on

Duffer was our only bright spark, Hunt looked good when he came on but then he always does when he comes on but rarely looks as effective for 90 minutes. What worried me tonight was our defence looked shakey, Dunne and O'Shea didn't look at the races at all.

Frisbee

lostexpectation wrote: »

dunphy is denoucing trappitoni

My Dad last night as soon as Poland got their third:
"Dunphy will have his knives out tomorrow."

Gibson and Whelan just aren't the right option in the middle of the park for me.
Yes Trap has a specific system he wants to play, and it's obviously worked well for him before considering his reputation as a manager, but we have no creativity in centre midfield now and neither are the strong, imposing, mad for a tackle kind of Defensive Midfielder that they need to be to operate in this system.

Pigman II

mike65 wrote: »

The Irish team in 20 years will be black and have names like Kazimierz

Mike

No they won't. Those kids in 20 years will probably want to play for the nation of their fathers rather turn out for our shambolic shower.

Draupnir

Xavi6 wrote: »

- Neither, imo, has an eye for a pass. They are your run of the mill grafters and are too similar for my liking. Watching someone like A. Reid or Ireland get their head up and pick a pass from 40 yards away is what we need. Gibson and Whelan don't offer that spark that will have opposition teams on the back foot.

I agree with you on all your other points except this one Neil, Gibson's main strength is his passing and ability to pick a pass. His vision and creativity have been his strengths throughout his development at United and it's why a lot of United people were saying before the Cyprus game that they were surprised Trap saw him as a defensive midfielder because that simply isn't his game at all.

Something that backs this up is that, in last nights game, there were at least 5 if not many more times that Gibson lost the rag with other Ireland players because they weren't showing an option for a simple pass to feet when he had the ball. In the first half, he hit at least 4 passes over 30 yards that started attacking opportunities.

Some of this is hard to see on TV as you are probably well used to at this stage being in Oz. Whelan though, I completely agree with you on, he gave the ball away most of the times he got it last night.

eirebhoy

dogpile wrote: »

We're a mid table Championship team at best..poorest selection of players available in living memory (mine anyway)

Given, Finnan, Dunne, O'Shea, Duff, McGeady, S.Reid, A,Reid, Doyle, Keane are all premiership standard. Garvan (Ipswich), St Ledger (Preston), McCann (Burnley), S.Hunt (Reading) and Foley (Wolves) are all either the best player at their Championship clubs or certainly top 3. Then there's Kilbane who seems to be rated by premiership managers. Andrews who's playing regularly in the premiership. Lawrence and Delap are both 1st choice for a poor premiership team but better than mid table championship team. McShane looked way too good for the championship when played at centre half. And Noel Hunt has been doing very well the last couple of years. Carsley would still be at Everton if he didn't want to move back to Birmingham for family reasons. Joey O'Brien is injured atm but still a premiership regular.

I probably forgot a couple but I think 7 of those players there are central midfielders which is where we're weakest.

---

Given

---

Foley ---- O'Shea ---- Dunne ---- Kilbane
McGeady -- S.Reid ---- A.Reid

---

Duff

---

Doyle ---- Keane

---

Man for man we're much better than Bulgaria imo. It's now up to the manager to show that. Fair enough, S.Reid is injured and he's very important but he's not Roy Keane and we should be able to replace him and still keep a good team. Dunne is the only player there we couldn't do without.

stovelid

Was sitting right beside the most vocal section of Polish fans last night. Nice to see the support they gave the team. Must have been a surprise for the majority of Irish fans there last night who have probably never seen a tifo - outside of the T.V - in their life.

Draupnir

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Terrible result. I knew this would happen. He picked a poor squad and a poor team and it showed. Carsley even at his age is better than Gibson and Whelan combined. Gibson might have potential for the future but certainly not now. Whelan simply isn't good enough at this level.

I must say my belief in Trapattoni is shrinking. He can't seem to get the basics right and has shown a stubborn streak of sticking with players who haven't been able to cut the mustard.

Wednesday it was Poland but soon it could be Georgia or Bulgaria leaving us with egg on our faces. I want to see him show more of a ruthless streak. If players aren't up to it then leave 'em out. No McShane, no Gibson, no Whelan, no Folan and the return of Carsley, Andy Reid, Joey O'Brien and Delap. I'd also welcome new caps for the likes of Owen Garvan and Cillian Sheridan.

Gibson and Carsley would have been very effective last night in comparison, good point.

The rest of what you said is madness though, you are losing belief in Trappatoni? The man is the second most successful manager of all time! You think he can't get the basics right? How can you form this opinion based on his achievements and abilities! Historically, he sticks to a group of players with almost every team he manages and rarely drafts in large groups of new players once he has settled on his core squad. I personally think it is a great strategy, particularly at international level where team spirit and cohesion is usually hard to come by and makes a big difference.

Delap will only ever come back as a sub at this stage, I doubt he will be back at all, Whelan can throw the ball about 30 metres anyway going on last nights evidence.

Joey O'Brien has never impressed since his debut for Ireland and looks like a bit of a hoofer to me whenever I see Bolton but is young and will get a run I'm sure, needs a best position I feel as right now I'm unsure if he is better at right back or holding midfield.

McShane had his best game for Ireland since the Czech game last night, I don't think we can fault him at right back so far and he is committed to every tackle at least unlike some. Folan did ok last night too, I would have guessed that the occassion and pressure got to him a bit at times but he was a real handful for their defence.

Garvan looks like a good ball player but I wouldn't rate him any higher than Gibson to be honest, otherwise Premier League sides would be trying to buy him which I haven't heard anything about.

Cillian Sheridan just looks like a young kid that is gangly and wins headers, he should be left alone and forgotten about so he can develop for a few years before we go heaping any pressure on the guy. A cap at this stage would just put the spotlight and expectation on him to be Niall Quinn over night.

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Terrible result. I knew this would happen. He picked a poor squad and a poor team and it showed. Carsley even at his age is better than Gibson and Whelan combined. Gibson might have potential for the future but certainly not now. Whelan simply isn't good enough at this level.

I must say my belief in Trapattoni is shrinking. He can't seem to get the basics right and has shown a stubborn streak of sticking with players who haven't been able to cut the mustard.

Wednesday it was Poland but soon it could be Georgia or Bulgaria leaving us with egg on our faces. I want to see him show more of a ruthless streak. If players aren't up to it then leave 'em out. No McShane, no Gibson, no Whelan, no Folan and the return of Carsley, Andy Reid, Joey O'Brien and Delap. I'd also welcome new caps for the likes of Owen Garvan and Cillian Sheridan.

Rubbish. The basics are there, but the players are not. The team were organised and kept the ball down and played to the system. McShane at right back is baffling, Keogh looked out of his depth and Folan only played well with his back to goal, but Gibson and Whelan are his two best holding midfielders. Neither are good enough, but thats not Traps fault. Delap? Carsley? Get a grip. Why not bring back Kennedy or McAteer ffs.

Personally I'm just happy that we have a manager who probably has never heard of Dunphy, nevermind give a damn what he says. Reid is overweight and his unwillingness to lose the stone he needs to is a red rag to Trap.

Draupnir

stovelid wrote: »

Was sitting right beside the most vocal section of Polish fans last night. Nice to see the support they gave the team. Must have been a surprise for the majority of Irish fans there last night who have probably never seen a tifo - outside of the T.V - in their life.

The majority of the Irish fans at the game last night were kids and people interested in going to game to see what it was like. Very harsh to go on with this "outside of a TV" rubbish when the supporters of the league in this country choose not to come and support the national side en masse.

Realistically, if a large group of LOI fans could get together without killing each other, Ireland could have fantastic home support similar to the amazing away support shown by the Poles last night. Easily the best atmosphere for an Ireland friendly in the last 10 years and credit for that has to go to the Poles, I was so jealous of the Polish fans in the lower Cusack, I want to be part of a group of supporters like that.

Draupnir

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Rubbish. The basics are there, but the players are not. The team were organised and kept the ball down and played to the system. McShane at right back is baffling, Keogh looked out of his depth and Folan only played well with his back to goal, but Gibson and Whelan are his two best holding midfielders. Neither are good enough, but thats not Traps fault. Delap? Carsley? Get a grip. Why not bring back Kennedy or McAteer ffs.

Personally I'm just happy that we have a manager who probably has never heard of Dunphy, nevermind give a damn what he says. Reid is overweight and his unwillingness to lose the stone he needs to is a red rag to Trap.

I agree with almost everything you said, bar your points about Carsley (could definitely do a better job than Whelan I think) and McShane (based purely on last nights game, apart from some dodgy positioning at times).

stovelid

Draupnir wrote: »

I was so jealous of the Polish fans in the lower Cusack, I want to be part of a group of supporters like that.

Aye, it was pretty tantalizing to see what decent, vocal support could be like. Really made the difference to the atmo.

Draupnir wrote: »

I agree with almost everything you said, bar your points about Carsley (could definitely do a better job than Whelan I think) and McShane (based purely on last nights game, apart from some dodgy positioning at times).

I too think Carsley could do a job for another year or two. It's clear that Gibson needs a steadier, more experienced holding midfielder beside him.

eirebhoy

Draupnir wrote: »

McShane had his best game for Ireland since the Czech game last night

He was a 6/10 last night but Colombia, Czechs (a), Slovakia (h) and Wales (h) were all 7/10 performances from him at least.

Mr.Nice Guy

Draupnir wrote:

The rest of what you said is madness though, you are losing belief in Trappatoni? The man is the second most successful manager of all time! You think he can't get the basics right? How can you form this opinion based on his achievements and abilities! Historically, he sticks to a group of players with almost every team he manages and rarely drafts in large groups of new players once he has settled on his core squad. I personally think it is a great strategy, particularly at international level where team spirit and cohesion is usually hard to come by and makes a big difference.

How is it madness? What's madness is to only concentrate on his past achievements and overlook the quite blatant mistakes he has been making. Are you suggesting he has gotten the basics right in recent games? We have been poor and due to a bit of luck and some desperate defending we've managed to avoid being left badly embarrassed.

Draupnir wrote:

Delap will only ever come back as a sub at this stage, I doubt he will be back at all, Whelan can throw the ball about 30 metres anyway going on last nights evidence.

Joey O'Brien has never impressed since his debut for Ireland and looks like a bit of a hoofer to me whenever I see Bolton but is young and will get a run I'm sure, needs a best position I feel as right now I'm unsure if he is better at right back or holding midfield.

McShane had his best game for Ireland since the Czech game last night, I don't think we can fault him at right back so far and he is committed to every tackle at least unlike some. Folan did ok last night too, I would have guessed that the occassion and pressure got to him a bit at times but he was a real handful for their defence.

Garvan looks like a good ball player but I wouldn't rate him any higher than Gibson to be honest, otherwise Premier League sides would be trying to buy him which I haven't heard anything about.

Cillian Sheridan just looks like a young kid that is gangly and wins headers, he should be left alone and forgotten about so he can develop for a few years before we go heaping any pressure on the guy. A cap at this stage would just put the spotlight and expectation on him to be Niall Quinn over night.

Delap would at least be of very good use as an impact sub whereas Whelan is proving himself a liability. O'Brien is not a great player but is a better option than the woeful McShane. I thought his lack of pace was clearly on show last night and he's a worry whenever I see anyone going at him. Garvan has attracted interest from Pompey if I'm not mistaken and I'd certainly rate him above Gibson at this point since he's getting used regularly in the Championship whereas Gibson makes the odd appearance if he's lucky. I'd disagree on Sheridan. He's scoring goals in the SPL so why not bring him on board instead of a guy like Folan who's lucky to get a game . As you say he provides a good alternative due to his physique.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Rubbish. The basics are there, but the players are not.

Why would anyone play a system that doesn't have the players for it to work effectively? You think we're playing a great system though you acknowledge we don't have the players for it. Might as well go 3-5-2 then while we're at it and make McShane a wing-back then.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

but Gibson and Whelan are his two best holding midfielders.

They're not. Neither are fit to lace Carsley's boots.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

Neither are good enough, but thats not Traps fault.

He picked them FFS.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

Delap? Carsley? Get a grip. Why not bring back Kennedy or McAteer ffs.

Delap - regarded as Stoke's most effective player.
Carsley - regarded as Birmingham's most effective player.

Yeah it's absurd to think they should be in the squad right? :rolleyes:

Some people are putting their heads in the sand. If Stan had made the decisions Trap has made in recent games there would have been bloody uproar.

I'm not willing to ignore stupid decisions just because the guy making them has a fantastic CV. That is the past. We are working on the present. If a player is only as good as his last game then the same is true for managers.

We appear to have a guy who will stubbornly overlook better players and stick with ones who have failed to perform out of loyalty, persistence, whatever. It's looking like a recipe for disaster.

eirebhoy

Draupnir wrote: »

Garvan looks like a good ball player but I wouldn't rate him any higher than Gibson to be honest, otherwise Premier League sides would be trying to buy him which I haven't heard anything about.

Crap sources but:
http://www.tribalfootball.com/content/ipswich-keen-secure-wigan-west-ham-target-garvan-new-deal
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/04/20/everton-want-ipswich-star-owen-garvan-115875-20388869/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/sunderland/2008/11/14/sunderland-target-midfield-ace-owen-garvan-115875-20894150/

He signed a new contract in the summer which put off other clubs but he'll be in the premiership next season surely. If it wasn't for his illness a couple of seasons ago he'd most likely be a premiership player by now.

PHB

I don't think I've ever been more annoyed at an Ireland game than I was last night.

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

How is it madness? What's madness is to only concentrate on his past achievements and overlook the quite blatant mistakes he has been making. Are you suggesting he has gotten the basics right in recent games? We have been poor and due to a bit of luck and some desperate defending we've managed to avoid being left badly embarrassed.

That's more or less spot on how I feel about Ould Traps.

Add to that the Reid affair, where he seems to have made a point not to include him in the squad to show the media who is boss, I think arrogance like that cannot be afforded when dealing with such a small pool of talent.

Draupnir

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

How is it madness? What's madness is to only concentrate on his past achievements and overlook the quite blatant mistakes he has been making. Are you suggesting he has gotten the basics right in recent games? We have been poor and due to a bit of luck and some desperate defending we've managed to avoid being left badly embarrassed.

I don't know what you think the basics of football are, but to me they are organisation, counter attacking and being difficult to break down. These are all areas in which we have improved since Trappatoni has arrived. I don't think we have been poor in any games to be honest, I thought at times we played very well last night and really I felt we only did badly at set pieces in terms of defending.

If anyone wants to rewatch the game and take count, I figured Poland had five chances and scored 3. One of those they missed was a 35 yard effort from number 8 and the other was a good save by Given. I thought we had about 8 chances ourselves and if our finishing had been better we would have been deservedly 2-1 up at half time.

Also, who was the right winger for Poland in the first half, 16 I think, superb player.

Draupnir

Boggles wrote: »

That's more or less spot on how I feel about Ould Traps.

Add to that the Reid affair, where he seems to have made a point not to include him in the squad to show the media who is boss, I think arrogance like that cannot be afforded when dealing with such a small pool of talent.

In a moment of sheer honesty probably caused by his weak English, Traps basically said Reid is out because was sulking around the place and complaining because he wasn't getting a game. Fair enough reason not to have him in a squad that gets together for five days at a time in my opinion. (Particularly if he is not going to start and therefore will be sulking and dragging morale down with it).

I definitely don't think it is to prove anything to the media.

Boggles

Draupnir wrote: »

In a moment of sheer honesty probably caused by his weak English, Traps basically said Reid is out because was sulking around the place and complaining because he wasn't getting a game. Fair enough reason not to have him in a squad that gets together for five days at a time in my opinion. (Particularly if he is not going to start and therefore will be sulking and dragging morale down with it).

It's up to the manager to nip that in the bud, not weild the axe. As I said we don't have the luxury to ostrize any more players.

Draupnir

Boggles wrote: »

It's up to the manager to nip that in the bud, not weild the axe. As I said we don't have the luxury to ostrize any more players.

Reid refuses to lose weight for any manager he plays for at club level and strikes me as a bit of an ego. I doubt any international manager can significantly influence they guy enough to remove poor attitude, so the solution to any good international manager is to drop him.

Boggles

Draupnir wrote: »

Reid refuses to lose weight for any manager he plays for at club level and strikes me as a bit of an ego.

Where did you pull that out of?

eirebhoy

Draupnir wrote: »

In a moment of sheer honesty probably caused by his weak English, Traps basically said Reid is out because was sulking around the place and complaining because he wasn't getting a game. Fair enough reason not to have him in a squad that gets together for five days at a time in my opinion. (Particularly if he is not going to start and therefore will be sulking and dragging morale down with it).

Kerr said the other day that Reid would the last player in the squad to be a disruptive influence. He always comes across as a decent guy to me. Fair enough, he rates himself highly but he's in one of our 2 most gifted passes of a ball Ever.

I was just thinking about what my squad would be. 6 of the players that played some part in last nights match wouldn't even make a squad of 24 if I had the choice.

Boggles

Reid hasn't been given a chance under Traps, not even 60 seconds, tis actually a pretty good reason to get the hump, I can't really blame the guy, I would be more worried if he did'nt question it.

Draupnir

Boggles wrote: »

Where did you pull that out of?

He has been overweight at Nottingham Forest, Spurs, Charlton and Sunderland. Although he has been player of the year and captain at two of those and is a superb passer of the ball.

I rate him highly myself, I just believe what Trappatoni says about him being a sulker, if the shoe fits and all that.

Draupnir

eirebhoy wrote: »

Kerr said the other day.

Brian Kerr will do anything to undermine any manager Ireland ever get for the rest of his life. That is a fact and all his columns and interviews revolve around undermining Ireland set ups. I ignore his opinions ever since he was let go and became chief bitter of All Ireland.

Maybe he should have played a few strikers and kept his job.

Boggles

Draupnir wrote: »

He has been overweight at Nottingham Forest, Spurs, Charlton and Sunderland. Although he has been player of the year and captain at two of those and is a superb passer of the ball.

How do you know he is overweight?, and how do you know he refused to loose weight? Have you got his BMI? Are you a physio? Have you examined him?

Or are you talking shíté?

Draupnir wrote: »

I rate him highly myself, I just believe what Trappatoni says about him being a sulker, if the shoe fits and all that.

Would you not sulk if you were him? Not given any chance and then dropped from the squad all together?

All I know is, 2 of Irelands most talented midfielders are not playing for Ireland, I couldn't give a shíté about the politics of it, it just grinds my gears.

Sherifu

It was very clever by the FAI. They had an away friendly like we all wanted without actually going anywhere. \o/