Ireland squad to play Poland

Draupnir

Boggles wrote: »

How do you know he is overweight?, and how do you know he refused to loose weight? Have you got his BMI? Are you a physio? Have you examined him?

Or are you talking shíté?

I have eyes, the guys is clearly overweight for a professional central midfielder whatever about his natural build. What has a physio got to do with weight by the way?

Why do you feel the need to resort to the "talking sh*te" line?

Boggles wrote: »

Would you not sulk if you were him? Not given any chance and then dropped from the squad all together?

All I know is, 2 of Irelands most talented midfielders are not playing for Ireland, I couldn't give a shíté about the politics of it, it just grinds my gears.

I've been dropped plenty of times when playing for various football teams throughout my life, I sulked when I was under 9's alright but after that you just take the dropping as a positive and motivation to get back in the team. All good pro's look at it this way.

OhNoYouDidn't

Boggles wrote: »

It's up to the manager to nip that in the bud, not weild the axe. As I said we don't have the luxury to ostrize any more players.

Traps has fallen out with far better players than Reid.

Long and the short of it is any new manager lays down a marker. Reid was foolish enough to be the first player to not do what he was told and is out on his (too large) arse.

Reid's club career has not had the trajectory it could have due to his lack of mobility and pace.

I would prefer to see Reid there, but when all is said and done, Trap's opinion on a players attitude counts for a lot more to me than a few teenagers on the internet and Dunphy keeping his name in the spotlight.

Boggles

Draupnir wrote: »

Why do you feel the need to resort to the "talking sh*te" line?

See Below

Draupnir wrote: »

I have eyes, the guys is clearly overweight for a professional central midfielder whatever about his natural build.

..

OhNoYouDidn't

Boggles wrote: »

Would you not sulk if you were him? Not given any chance and then dropped from the squad all together?.

No.

Boggles wrote: »

All I know is, 2 of Irelands most talented midfielders are not playing for Ireland, I couldn't give a shíté about the politics of it, it just grinds my gears.

But you managed to blame Traps anyway

OhNoYouDidn't

Boggles wrote: »

See Below




..

Are you saying you don't think Reid is too heavy?

Boggles

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

No.

Fair play to you. You are obviously an ultimate professional, and a credit to us all.

Mitch Connor

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you saying you don't think Reid is too heavy?

If he can deal with playing in the premiership, he can probably deal with playing for Ireland - I would say international football is slower and less taxing in general than the pace of a prem game.

He doesn't look like he is in great shape, but he is in the same shape he has pretty much always been in and has performed to a higher level than Gibson or Whelan have. What is the worst that could have happened if he had played last night? His 'weight problems' would be confirmed, he would huff and puff for 60minutes and Traps could justifiably drop him til he sorts himself out. Could have happened, or it could have turned out that despite his build, he is fit enough to play for us and offer us creativity no other player willing to play for us can match.

stovelid

Boggles wrote: »

How do you know he is overweight?, and how do you know he refused to loose weight? Have you got his BMI? Are you a physio? Have you examined him?

You're being disingenuous. Reid has clearly looked overweight at many of his clubs, especially given the near-generic build of top-level players these days.

The 'facts' are not the issue, rather the manager's perception. The others here are correct in saying that if your manager perceives you to be a stone too heavy, you lose that stone if you want to play. Especially if that manager places mobility on a par with skill for the Irish midfield.

Boggles

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you saying you don't think Reid is too heavy?

Never weighed him.

From what I have seen of him this season he looks fit enough.

I personally don't think Reid is as good as some people like to believe, he is good with the ball thou, and I would easily put him in the top 10 with his delivery from set pieces, I don't think a player like that in such a small pool of talent can be left out altogether.

On a similar note.
Appartently Le Tiss was left out of the England setup because he was too fat aswell.

OhNoYouDidn't

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If he can deal with playing in the premiership, he can probably deal with playing for Ireland - I would say international football is slower and less taxing in general than the pace of a prem game.

As has been said before, Traps system does not allow a 'quarterback'. Roy Keanes relegation zone Sunderland may.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He doesn't look like he is in great shape, but he is in the same shape he has pretty much always been in and has performed to a higher level than Gibson or Whelan have. What is the worst that could have happened if he had played last night? His 'weight problems' would be confirmed, he would huff and puff for 60minutes and Traps could justifiably drop him til he sorts himself out. Could have happened, or it could have turned out that despite his build, he is fit enough to play for us and offer us creativity no other player willing to play for us can match.

And how would that look to the younger players? He was told to do x if he wanted to play. He did not and had an auld sulk. He is in Coventry until he does x. Its that simple.

Trap didn't win all those medals giving into players who wouldn't follow instructions, and Traps has fallen out with better players than Reid.

Boggles

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

As has been said before, Traps system does not allow a 'quarterback'. Roy Keanes relegation zone Sunderland may.

Brilliant, Reid now is the reason Sunderland are second from Bottom.

Pigman II

Boggles wrote: »

Appartently Le Tiss was left out of the England setup because he was too fat aswell.

Nah I'm pretty sure it was because he was a lazy fancy-dan showboater.

Boggles

Pigman II wrote: »

Nah I'm pretty sure it was because he was a lazy fancy-dan showboater.

His goals might have been show boat and he might have been lazy but 162 goals from Midfield, does prove he was effective!

JimiTime

Its this simple. If its just about football, Reid should be in the starting 11 at least ahead of Gibson. If Trapatoni has dropped him because he thinks Gibson is a better option, he is quite simply wrong. Forget about all this 'who are you to know better than tapatoni etc'. If its for football reasons, he's wrong. Any fool should see that. However, Trapatoni, Tardelli and Brady are experienced football men, so I think its obvious that its not a footballing reason.

Het-Field

I really enjoyed the game last night. The aptmosphere was superb, the game was reasonably exciting, and five goals is a worthwhile return, when Irish friendlies dont stimulate too many goals.

However, enjoyment does not equate to a belief that the Irish played well. At least we got this performance out of the system before the bigger games to come. Trappatoni has been given huge food for thought.

-Gibson and Whelan cannnot play together. Whelan lookes the stronger of the pair. I am wondering wheater Trappatoni is basing his Gibson selection on the club he plays for. The man is not playing football, thus he should not be around the International Setup

-Caleb Folan brings something new to the team. He was strong and powerful, and with an inch or two of pace he would have got a debut goal. As long as his confidence is high, he could definately play a Peter Crouch/Emile Heskey job

-Andy Keogh should not be in the team. He runs in circles and his passing is poor. He has no real vision. Andy Reid must have enjoyed this car crash of a performance yesterday

-Joey O Brien, Rory Delap, Andy Reid, and Lee Carsley need to be returned to the squad for non competitive games. Remember Reid can hit a mean free kick, while Delap has a robust long throw. Even for these qualities alsone, they most be considered.

-Trappatoni must work hard with Stephan Ireland. I dont think Ireland's international career is dead. He proved himself to be one of Ireland's strongest performers under Steve Staunton, and regularly chipped in witha goal. Trappatoni must be determined.


My rating sfor last night

Shay Given 6 Some excellent saves.
Paul McShane 6 Not a bad night
Kevin Kilbane 5 Seemed disinterested, and showed for little
Richard Dunne 6 One amazing tackle, slow on the third goal
John O Shea 5 Back to his old ways
Andy Keogh 5 Poor night
Darren Gibson 4 Absent
Glenn Whelan 6 Ballwatching for goal number 2, otherwise ok
Damien Duff 5 No inventiveness, was never going to beat his man
Caleb Folan 7 Made Chances. A good debut
Kevin Doyle 6 no service

Subs
Stephan Hunt 7 Two dangerous crosses and a goal. A decent outing
Noel Hunt 6 Strong and Competitive. International Standered ?????
Shane Long 6 Penalty winner and some nice touches
Keith Andrews 7 Debut goal, and could have had a second
Alex Bruce 6 Competent for the most part

OhNoYouDidn't

Boggles wrote: »

Brilliant, Reid now is the reason Sunderland are second from Bottom.

No, Roy Keane, and his horrific signings, is.

I think Reid is a talented footballer. But the first world class manager he has had to deal with and he is out on his swiss. I think that says a lot.

Dave!

Heh, yesterday I was debating whether I should put a bet on a draw / 0-0 for the match!

~Rebel~

in fairness though, he gets his game for Sunderland. If theres one manager who wouldn't tolerate a chap who is actually fat, its Roy Keane. He obviously does just as much training as the rest of the team. As comically as he looks, its very unlikely that he's genuinely a fatty and not just a big build. With the regeme's footballers are on im not sure how possible it is to be fat, particularly for a manager like Keane.

eirebhoy

~Rebel~ wrote: »

in fairness though, he gets his game for Sunderland. If theres one manager who wouldn't tolerate a chap who is actually fat, its Roy Keane. He obviously does just as much training as the rest of the team. As comically as he looks, its very unlikely that he's genuinely a fatty and not just a big build. With the regeme's footballers are on im not sure how possible it is to be fat, particularly for a manager like Keane.

But he hasn't really been getting his game. He changed the game for them when he came on against Blackburn on Saturday though and should start their next game. Interesting that he was dropped for the back to back games against Blackburn in the first place after he was one of Sunderland's top 2 players against Pompey by all reports.

monkey9

The match was sh!te. Ireland were sh!te. How i got through it, i don't know. Sh!te Sh!te Sh!te

Draupnir

monkey9 wrote: »

The match was sh!te. Ireland were sh!te. How i got through it, i don't know. Sh!te Sh!te Sh!te

One the thing the match was not, was ****e. Of the 20 people I discussed it with afterwards, nobody thought it was ****e, most agreed it was the best home friendly in a long, long time.

~Rebel~

eirebhoy wrote: »

But he hasn't really been getting his game. He changed the game for them when he came on against Blackburn on Saturday though and should start their next game. Interesting that he was dropped for the back to back games against Blackburn in the first place after he was one of Sunderland's top 2 players against Pompey by all reports.

but you know what i mean, he's not out in the cold or anything. We already know that if anyone crosses Keane, its a big deal (stokes for instance). We've had none of that with Reid. Sometimes he plays, sometimes he doesn't, but i think its safe to say if he was flouting his training regeme and being a general fatty his neck would be on the chopping block in a far more obvious manner.

OhNoYouDidn't

monkey9 wrote: »

The match was sh!te. Ireland were sh!te. How i got through it, i don't know. Sh!te Sh!te Sh!te

what more do you want? there was 5 goals and a barnstorming finish

for me the midget on the wing for the poles was worth the admission alone. samba footwork.

zAbbo

monkey9 wrote: »

The match was sh!te. Ireland were sh!te. How i got through it, i don't know. Sh!te Sh!te Sh!te

Maybe you were one of the twats sitting behind me who was constantly talking in their high pitched country accents about boats and the price of usb cd rewriters?

monkey9

zAbbo wrote: »

Maybe you were one of the twats sitting behind me who was constantly talking in their high pitched country accents about boats and the price of usb cd rewriters?

If i was from the country, i would kill myself.

Rockee

zAbbo wrote: »

Maybe you were one of the twats sitting behind me who was constantly talking in their high pitched country accents about boats and the price of usb cd rewriters?

:eek: At least there were people talking in your section! I was getting dirty looks for standing up and screaming 'C'MON IRELAND!!' every now and again!

In relation to the 'Sh!te' post up above, I really enjoyed the match and the Polish fans were fantastic. Not one even slight bout of 'Olé' could be heard, I dont think anyone was arsed!

eirebhoy

I watched the match again last night and this morning (off work sick this week...) and I have to say, the central midfielders weren't as bad as I thought. Gibson started very well but faded as the first half went on. The 2nd half Whelan must have been given more freedom with Gibson sitting in and Whelan was all over the place and involved in a lot of the play.

Our defence had the ball a lot and were playing it around to each other but there was no midfielder showing for it. That was just what we lacked. A playmaker.

I think if Whelan played like he did on Wendesday, beside S.Reid we'd have won the match and he'd have got good reviews. He just needs a playmaker beside him at this level.

eirebhoy

"My intention is not to bring back Carsley or Reid because the players in those positions played well for me.

"At the moment, I know Carsley, Andy Reid, and Steven Reid. It's okay. When I took over I first learned that they were injured or other players did not want to come back so I said 'stay'.

"We built another team, another squad, they came to us with enthusiasm and they wanted to play for Ireland. They deserve respect. At the moment, I cannot go back because of my idea, I believe in the young players and I believe they are improving.

"Alex Ferguson believes in Gibson, and against Poland, Whelan was one of the best players on the pitch."

JimiTime

eirebhoy wrote: »

"My intention is not to bring back Carsley or Reid because the players in those positions played well for me.

"At the moment, I know Carsley, Andy Reid, and Steven Reid. It's okay. When I took over I first learned that they were injured or other players did not want to come back so I said 'stay'.

"We built another team, another squad, they came to us with enthusiasm and they wanted to play for Ireland. They deserve respect. At the moment, I cannot go back because of my idea, I believe in the young players and I believe they are improving.

"Alex Ferguson believes in Gibson, and against Poland, Whelan was one of the best players on the pitch."

It seems like he's isolating the players who didn't show for him at the start. Making a point. 'Seems' a bit of a stubborn approach, but hopefully he'll get a response from these young players he has faith in. A little concerned still though.

Mr.Nice Guy

wrote:

"My intention is not to bring back Carsley or Reid because the players in those positions played well for me."

This is very worrying. Does he honestly think Whelan and Gibson have played well in the last two games? Surely not. How can we be confident placing our World Cup hopes in their hands?

"Alex Ferguson believes in Gibson, and against Poland, Whelan was one of the best players on the pitch."

Alex Ferguson once believed in Luke Chadwick. Whelan meanwhile will never be the type of player to command a game. His best performances have been when Steven Reid was alongside him. That tells its own story.

From reading his comments it seems he is sticking to his guns and will not recall Carsley or Andy Reid. Thus barring the miraculous return of Stephen Ireland, it would seem that Ireland's hopes of qualification now rest on a midifeld pairing of Glenn Whelan and Darron Gibson. I was optimistic of our chances for qualification when Trap got the job but not any more.

If you look at Capello's example, he acknowledged England's shortcomings and dealt with them. He wasn't afraid to bring back old stalwarts who had previously been left in the cold - Heskey, Beckham - and these brave decisions have paid off. He has also not closed a door on players he isn't keen on, for instance saying Owen has a chance to play when he gets more games under his belt, and he has eased younger players like Agbonlahor into the team without placing a heavy burden on their shoulders.

I would like to see Trapattoni do likewise. Bring back the old stalwarts - Delap, Carsley - open the door to players left in the cold - Reid, O'Brien - and ease younger players into the squad - ie Garvan, Sheridan.

This kind of flexible approach might give us a chance. However if he persists in his 'my way or the highway' attitude then I fear we are doomed. If I'm the Bulgarian coach and I see an Irish midfield pairing of Gibson and Whelan standing in the way then I'm rubbing my hands together with glee.

I've seen no evidence that Trap possesses the crucial managerial ability to adapt to circumstances, to revert to a Plan B. I regret to say I feel his stubbornness will be our downfall. I really hope I'm wrong.

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

.


I've seen no evidence that Trap possesses the crucial managerial ability to adapt to circumstances, to revert to a Plan B. I regret to say I feel his stubbornness will be our downfall. I really hope I'm wrong.

I would argue that its his stubborness that won him those countless trophies.

Our most successful period was under Charlton. How 'flexible' was he? He dropped Brady which was a far ballsier move than dropping Reid.

Mr.Nice Guy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I would argue that its his stubborness that won him those countless trophies.

Our most successful period was under Charlton. How 'flexible' was he? He dropped Brady which was a far ballsier move than dropping Reid.

Will his stubbornness win us countless points? I respect the man's accomplishments but it doesn't mean a whole lot when he's making worrying judgement calls. I do think a manager needs to have courage in his convictions but there's surely a point when you have to acknowledge that something just isn't working.

With regards to Charlton, he was certainly ballsy but he had the talent pool to get away with it. He could afford to leave a class player like O'Leary on the sidelines too. We don't have that luxury now. We have probably the poorest options in midfield I can recall in my time supporting Ireland.

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Will his stubbornness win us countless points? I respect the man's accomplishments but it doesn't mean a whole lot when he's making worrying judgement calls. I do think a manager needs to have courage in his convictions but there's surely a point when you have to acknowledge that something just isn't working.

With regards to Charlton, he was certainly ballsy but he had the talent pool to get away with it. He could afford to leave a class player like O'Leary on the sidelines too. We don't have that luxury now. We have probably the poorest options in midfield I can recall in my time supporting Ireland.

It hasn't yet. Look, Reid isn't that good a player, he was no Brady. Reid won't do what he is told and is out on his ear. Life goes on.

I'm happy that he has a plan and is sticking to it and is willing to stand up to the media pack. Bobby Staunton would have folded to the pressure.