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Brush up your Shakespeare/An thig leat Bearla?

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CDfm wrote: »
    the CIA puts Irish literacy rates at 99%

    The OECD have a literacy survey which says that 1 in 4 adults between 16 & 64 have problems doing things such as reading a bottle of aspirin.

    In Navan - if they tested filing out a bookie slip and checking winnings that would drop dramaticaly.

    But still its a cruel jibe to make fun of the uneducated Ireland wasnt always as well of as it is now.

    Would agree, but Mr Barry was very quick to say that 25% of the Irish population was "functionally illiterate of English", just interested , to know what he thought the similar percentage for the non Irish population was.


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    #33
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What percentage of the non Irish population, in Ireland is "functionally illiterate of English"?
    I don’t know, but immigration does not seem to have much of an impact on the percentage. A report from 2001 suggests that “nearly a quarter of the population is functionally illiterate”:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2001/0721/01072100180.html

    Not much change in the last seven years:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0811/1218232683254.html
    CDfm wrote: »
    Just because your multi-cultural doesnt mean everyone else is.
    Eh?
    CDfm wrote: »
    Well if they are such an addition to our country they should have no problem mastering a bit or at least knowing we have a national anthem…
    Don’t worry, I’m sure everyone knows Ireland has a national anthem.
    CDfm wrote: »
    …and know that it is customary to stand quitely not sit during it and not to speak. That would get you kicked out of the Portabello Hotel- where they take things like that seriously.
    Em, ok. Got an axe to grind, have we?
    CDfm wrote: »
    I dont know where you get your 25% functionally illiterate from…
    See above.


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    #34
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Em, ok. Got an axe to grind, have we?
    .

    Yup - poking fun at the illiterate is a cheap shot. Ive a post grad -so its not personal - but it did come accross as very superior- gratuitously so.

    Not all Ireland is sophisticated and worldly and its only a gereration since we got full time secondary education. The resources and the tradition of education was minimal.THankfully it isnt now- but it shouldnt diminish them.

    There are loads of people with ordinary jobs - say stonemasons, people working in bloodstock, horseracing,greyhounds, fisheries, assembly lines etc.Who dont have the opportunity or need to use their literacy skills. Its their taxes that paid for the education system that we had and have.


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    #35
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    CDfm wrote: »
    Yup - poking fun at the illiterate is a cheap shot.
    :confused: Who was poking fun?


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    djpbarry wrote: »
    I don’t know, but immigration does not seem to have much of an impact on the percentage. A report from 2001 suggests that “nearly a quarter of the population is functionally illiterate”:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2001/0721/01072100180.html

    Not much change in the last seven years:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0811/1218232683254.html



    For once, you are right, you don't know.
    the Irish Times piece, appears to be the work of a lazy journo, who quotes out of date stats, no more.


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    #37
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    djpbarry wrote: »
    :confused: Who was poking fun?
    It came accross that way. I dont think I was the only one that read it that way.


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    #38
    dsmythy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,518 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    djpbarry wrote: »
    First part of that is fine, but I don’t see why migrants should have to consider themselves Irish. I myself would have more of an affiliation with Dublin than I would with Ireland. Besides, if an Irish person emigrates, there’s no way that they’re going to adopt the nationality of the country that they emigrate to, so I’m not sure why immigrants to Ireland should be expected to “swap” nationalities.

    Well i said myself it is always going to be a low rate of success for an initial migrant to slowly over time aquire some sort of self-identification as being Irish. You can still go through the process goal i described. It probably won't ever fully integrate them but it may set up their children for an easier settling in Irish society and to avoid the identity issues present in countries who are about 30 years ahead of us on the subject of immigration.

    An ability in English also helps of course. I'd rather see an effort to take in people with skills that are needed right now first and then sort out who has a fair level of english and who doesn't.


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    #39
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Deleted User wrote: »
    the Irish Times piece, appears to be the work of a lazy journo, who quotes out of date stats, no more.
    Yeah, you're right. There are no issues with regard to adult literacy in this country. The alarming problems highlighted by the OECD 10 years ago have magically corrected themselves and there is now no need for organisations such as the National Adult Literacy Agency.

    :rolleyes:


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    #40
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    dsmythy wrote: »

    An ability in English also helps of course. I'd rather see an effort to take in people with skills that are needed right now first and then sort out who has a fair level of english and who doesn't.

    an ability to get on the bus in an orderly fashion etc also helps

    just before we get into discussions on queuing my friend and me were on the DART and he gave his seat to a pregnant woman only for a foreign gent to start an argument that said seat should be his. Now Terry is big - but quiet but this guy was so ill mannered it was unreal - he was out to provoke.

    Thats not racist - in the Middle East when I worked there you needed certain skills to get around and its polite to ignore women as its taken as displaying an interest.

    The guy had English but his attitude was something else.


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    #41
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    CDfm wrote: »
    an ability to get on the bus in an orderly fashion etc also helps

    just before we get into discussions on queuing my friend and me were on the DART and he gave his seat to a pregnant woman only for a foreign gent to start an argument that said seat should be his. Now Terry is big - but quiet but this guy was so ill mannered it was unreal - he was out to provoke.

    Thats not racist - in the Middle East when I worked there you needed certain skills to get around and its polite to ignore women as its taken as displaying an interest.

    The guy had English but his attitude was something else.
    :rolleyes:

    How do you manage to stand up straight with that great big chip on your shoulder?


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    #42
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    djpbarry wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    How do you manage to stand up straight with that great big chip on your shoulder?

    What chip? please do tell ...id love to know.


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    #43
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    CDfm wrote: »
    What chip? please do tell ...id love to know.
    What exactly was the point of the fascinating little anecdote about some random guy on a train?


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    #44
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    djpbarry wrote: »
    What exactly was the point of the fascinating little anecdote about some random guy on a train?

    The discussion relates to a speech Minister Linehan made on foreigners.

    Most politicians speak metaphorically.

    So my anecdote was to highlight that this guys behaviour was bloody odd ,threatening and ugly. Now if people react to it its his comeuppence.Its not xenophobic or racist.

    You on the other hand seem to want to gloss over all inappropriate behaviour under the guise that Irish people are not multi-cultural enough. Yet you never come up with any suggestions of how these guys should assimilate and dont care if immigrants are illegal or whatever. Its not xenophobic or racist to deport illegals and criminals.

    You come accross like a wind up merchant.


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    #45
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    CDfm wrote: »
    So my anecdote was to highlight that this guys behaviour was bloody odd ,threatening and ugly. Now if people react to it its his comeuppence.Its not xenophobic or racist.

    You on the other hand seem to want to gloss over all inappropriate behaviour under the guise that Irish people are not multi-cultural enough. Yet you never come up with any suggestions of how these guys should assimilate and dont care if immigrants are illegal or whatever. Its not xenophobic or racist to deport illegals and criminals.
    You quite clearly have an issue with non-Irish people in this country and you're trying to derail the thread with your ranting. I'm going to leave you to it.


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    #46
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    djpbarry wrote: »
    You quite clearly have an issue with non-Irish people in this country and you're trying to derail the thread with your ranting. I'm going to leave you to it.

    thats a bit of a low blow - implying i am racist when its clear to you that i am not.

    what i said was true - i am just pointing out there are situations where foreigners lack life skills for Ireland. Maybe Mr Linehan does have a point .

    If an Irish person had behaved the same way to a foreign national I would have posted that.


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    #47
    cabinteelytom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭cabinteelytom


    It's the admission by the Minister that there are people (who have been given work permits by the government) but don't know English that is revealing; for I am gobsmacked that such persons exist.
    If you don't know English or Irish, in a country where English is the 'working language' ...
    How can you follow health and safety instructions? The worker who cannot, is a liability to his employer who under Irish law has a responsibility to provide 'information, instruction and training as neccessary' to ensure health and safety at work.
    How can you claim equal pay for equal work, with the employee who can interface with the public and with any of the management staff?
    How do you complete a valid income tax return?

    We have gained a little insight, due to the Minister's proposal, into the poorly thought-out, irregular practices instituted during the boom years when the only priority was provide employers with quickly recruited staff. But do we now have a Government with the flexibility to change practice for the new economic circumstances?
    Let's watch and see.


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    #48
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    cabinteelytom wrote: »
    It's the admission by the Minister that there are people (who have been given work permits by the government) but don't know English that is revealing; for I am gobsmacked that such persons exist.
    What the article actually said was:

    "While the minister said it would be “prescriptive” and “unfair” to attach an English language element to those seeking an initial work permit, he said that it could be introduced “for the purposes of renewal” of a work permit."


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