what if Extra-Terrestrial life is found?

Zillah

GothPunk wrote: »

If many people did tire of religion post first contact, what's the likelyhood of the aliens taking the place of gods or religion? Seems like they could become very good authority figure replacements, in the way good aul Yahweh does for people when they fail to grow up right.

Mostly dependent upon the personality of said aliens. If they were, for some bizarre reason, possessed of the intention to masquerade as Gods, it's most likely they'd be interpreted according to existing religions rather than founding new ones.

GothPunk

Zillah wrote: »

Mostly dependent upon the personality of said aliens. If they were, for some bizarre reason, possessed of the intention to masquerade as Gods, it's most likely they'd be interpreted according to existing religions rather than founding new ones.

I have this image in my mind of some teenage aliens getting pissed and playing tricks with us for some cheap thrills.

Goduznt Xzst

Zillah wrote: »

1 - Has the species transcended factional conflict between artificial identities such as states and minor genetic variances?
2 - Has the species developed a uniform degree of economic, technological and industrial development across their world?
3 - Has the species transcended defunct supernatural world views?

And many more questions of that variety. As you can guess, we're not doing too well.

"Hey Blorg, will we make contact with the humans today?"
"What?! No way, most of them are still praying to supernatural entities ahahaha"
"Really? Ahahaha, stupid humans."
"I also heard they have yet to establish a global government operated by unilaterally agreed principles.
"No! You're kidding me?"
"Nope. I even heard they've used nuclear weapons against each other."

And so on.

I'd agree with this. If aliens do exist and know of earth I doubt they'd want to have anything to do with us. It's like if we found a planet with a species at around the evolutionary stage of Homo Erectus, there'd be no point trying to reason with such a primitive being.

Actually scratch that, being Human, we'd probably enslave the life on that planet, and start exporting all its resources back to Earth until it was bled dry.

I imagine Aliens in Orbit looking down on earth and saying:

- "It seems they are all fighting and killing over whos religion is more loving?"
- "How peculiar!"

Dades

Zillah wrote: »

You lack the killer edge Dades. You're soft. It's only a matter of time before a meaner, tougher atheist takes over the forum. To the dueling pit!

I'll see you in the dueling pit... but I must warn you - you will be sporting a red uniform!

faceman

Zillah wrote: »

Of course you're at liberty! You clearly don't want to, and I'd imagine the reason is that you secretly know it's very silly and that we'd tear it apart.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Are you serious? Christianity? Do you mean with a sqeaky hammer?

Well no actually kinda does matter.

But sure ye are Atheists, what am i going to do with my story - convert you!

wrote:

Well then they could be just ellaborate dellusions and most certainly not true because they are complete unfounded.



Meh I can't be bothered......

Yes you can, go for it!

Joking aside, someone's religion or personal beliefs are their own business. As long as they arent oppressing someone or pushing an agenda, they aint doing no harm. As much as I enjoy debate with all you hell bound evil doers atheists, I always feel that there are some people in this forum and athesit world (altho not in this thread) that try oppress religious people with their beliefs.

CerebralCortex

faceman wrote: »

But sure ye are Atheists, what am i going to do with my story - convert you!

It would be interesting to see if you could. Something is going on here that you're not admitting. Like your reason for whatever you believe is convincing to you but would just fall flat on its face here.

faceman wrote: »

Yes you can, go for it!

No arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the spiritual can be a manifestation of a completely physical universe is cyclically futile and tedious. Your beliefs are completely protected because you place them outside the realm of scrutiny just so can keep them. So theres no point really.

faceman wrote: »

Joking aside, someone's religion or personal beliefs are their own business.

Agreed says nothing about their truth nor qualifies them for protection against scrutiny.

faceman wrote: »

As long as they arent oppressing someone or pushing an agenda, they aint doing no harm.

By living life in mixed community by your certain dogma your always pushing your agenda.

faceman wrote: »

As much as I enjoy debate with all you hell bound evil doers atheists, I always feel that there are some people in this forum and athesit world (altho not in this thread) that try oppress religious people with their beliefs.

Thats rubbish, and it speaks volumes about your insecurity in your beliefs if you feel someone who says your beliefs are unfounded and worthy of scrutiny as oppression. I've never heard of an atheist jihad have you?

Doctor DooM

faceman wrote: »

But what would it mean to the scientific world if life was found on Pluto for example?

Here we are again

Science would go "Oh look, we were wrong, isn't that interesting!" and move on.

Please note no one died over this disagreement.

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

But sure ye are Atheists, what am i going to do with my story - convert you!

Feed us.

Goduznt Xzst

Dades wrote: »

I'll see you in the dueling pit... but I must warn you - you will be sporting a red uniform!

I'll bet 20 Quatloos on Dades *gloyvin flyvin*

faceman wrote: »

Im not at liberty to divulge my experience to the masses here as it doesnt matter anyway. however my experience has bog all to do with a traumatic/emotional or fear based experience.

I never said it had anything to do with Trauma, I said it was emotive. You might of experienced something that went coincidentally in your favour and thought that there was a power behind it, or witnessed the birth of a child and thought there must of been a power to give it life... etc.

I respect that you don't wish to divulge your experience with us, but you should question yourself why such an evident proof of the existence of a God is not worth sharing. If it is purely personal and easily refuted then you need to question your true motives for accepting it as a proof.

Ask yourself why you would have a problem being told that your experience is not good enough.

faceman wrote: »

You believed in Santa Clause as a child for many years quite happily until you were shown otherwise. While its an over simplisitic analogy, it has some relevence. When you find out truly if your beliefs have any basis of truth, it will either be too late or a time to rejoice, no matter what your faith. Either way, those spiritual beliefs offer many people hope, light and comfort throughout life. Setting out to disprove it is paradoxial given if atheists are correct, it wont make any difference anyway.

Yes and I also believed that some cars driving around might be Transformers, but you grow up and accept the sad, sad reality

You've shot yourself in the foot with that analogy because it accepts that it is possible to convince an individual through indoctrination to believe lies. As whole souled as you believed Santa existed you now believe that a God exists. If you could believe lies before how can you be sure you aren't believing them now also?

Also, I resent your last comment there. I am not trying to "disprove" anything, that is impossible. What I am trying to do is show you that there is enough reasonable doubt to accept that in all likelyhood God does not exist. Further to this, IMO it will make a huge difference. Ridding the world of mind numbing and bigotry supporting religion will go one step closer to uniting the world. Arguing over which lies we should believe has a historical record of getting us nowhere.

Plus how do we ever hope to prepare ourselves for our Alien overlords if we don't prove ourselves worthy first

Also, in regards to your supposed benefits of belief, I give you this quote:

"Saying a religious man is happier than an atheist is no more to the point than saying a drunk man is happier than a sober man"

faceman

CerebralCortex wrote: »

It would be interesting to see if you could. Something is going on here that you're not admitting. Like your reason for whatever you believe is convincing to you but would just fall flat on its face here.

There would be nothing interesting about it. Unless science convinces you there is a God you will remain atheist no?

My experience can be explained Im sure no different that any post in the paranormal forum, the UFO forum and the like. what do you mean by falling falt on your face? Just because you may have a theory to explain something, which is all it will ever be, does not automatically denouce all other theories or possibilities.

wrote:

No arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the spiritual can be a manifestation of a completely physical universe is cyclically futile and tedious. Your beliefs are completely protected because you place them outside the realm of scrutiny just so can keep them. So theres no point really.

Again your assumption is based on your assumption of what my beliefs are based on your interpretation of christianity and the bible, which I presume you havent read in full? Or the Koran?

wrote:

By living life in mixed community by your certain dogma your always pushing your agenda.

What is my agenda so and who am I pushing it on?

wrote:

Thats rubbish, and it speaks volumes about your insecurity in your beliefs if you feel someone who says your beliefs are unfounded and worthy of scrutiny as oppression. I've never heard of an atheist jihad have you?

I fail to see what relevence your analogy is? Atheism appears to use propoganda no different than any other group in society. You dont believe in a god or an afterlife. Thats fine, yet you seem sentenced to push your agenda on any non atheist who posts here [in this thread, I dont follow this forum that often]. you are alluding to the non atheist poster to justify their beliefs. You might explain how my post demonstrates an insecurity?

faceman

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I never said it had anything to do with Trauma, I said it was emotive. You might of experienced something that went coincidentally in your favour and thought that there was a power behind it, or witnessed the birth of a child and thought there must of been a power to give it life... etc.

I respect that you don't wish to divulge your experience with us, but you should question yourself why such an evident proof of the existence of a God is not worth sharing. If it is purely personal and easily refuted then you need to question your true motives for accepting it as a proof.

Ask yourself why you would have a problem being told that your experience is not good enough.

What is my experience being shared hear going to achieve? I have told my experience to anyone who has asked me in real life? Like i said it was a personal experience. Do you post pictures of yourself in the nude in the net? I expect not.

wrote:

Yes and I also believed that some cars driving around might be Transformers, but you grow up and accept the sad, sad reality

You've shot yourself in the foot with that analogy because it accepts that it is possible to convince an individual through indoctrination to believe lies. As whole souled as you believed Santa existed you now believe that a God exists. If you could believe lies before how can you be sure you aren't believing them now also?

If we took that attitude in life we wouldnt trust or believe in anything or anyone.

wrote:

Also, I resent your last comment there. I am not trying to "disprove" anything, that is impossible. What I am trying to do is show you that there is enough reasonable doubt to accept that in all likelyhood God does not exist. Further to this, IMO it will make a huge difference. Ridding the world of mind numbing and bigotry supporting religion will go one step closer to uniting the world. Arguing over which lies we should believe has a historical record of getting us nowhere.

Is that not the same thing?
So religion is the cause of all evil in the world?

Doctor DooM

faceman wrote: »

Is that not the same thing?
So religion is the cause of all evil in the world?

thats not what he is saying, people have the capacity for great atrocity and religion is one excuse which is used to perform such atrocities. I am sure even the most ardent fundy would agree (even if only about religions that aren't their own).

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

What is my experience being shared hear going to achieve?

We're curious. Why not satisfy that curiosity?

So religion is the cause of all evil in the world?

No but it's certainly a big one.

Dades

I much preferred this thread when it involved space-aliens, and not faceman's personal beliefs.

Accordingly please include reference to ET's in your responses. It could even have some relevance to whatever you are typing.

CerebralCortex

faceman wrote: »

There would be nothing interesting about it. Unless science convinces you there is a God you will remain atheist no?

Of course but apparently according to you god/beliefs are outside the realm of science. If you have actually been touched by god then it has to be tangible to make you have faith(which is unnecessary because you have proof supposedly) specifically in christianity or else your doing nothing more than pretending cause it feels good which of course you're entitled to do.

faceman wrote: »

My experience can be explained Im sure no different that any post in the paranormal forum, the UFO forum and the like. what do you mean by falling falt on your face? Just because you may have a theory to explain something, which is all it will ever be, does not automatically denouce all other theories or possibilities.

Falling flat on its face the faith giving "experience" that is when put up to scrutiny. So you gotta ask yourself do you actually hold a belief about the truth of the universe because it feels good or because its conclusive which means it wouldn't be the same as any of the posts in the paranormal forum?

faceman wrote: »

Again your assumption is based on your assumption of what my beliefs are based on your interpretation of christianity and the bible, which I presume you havent read in full? Or the Koran?

No you've quite clearly stated that logic, reason and religion can't go hand in hand and thats the context in which I've responded.

faceman wrote: »

What is my agenda so and who am I pushing it on?

That religion, belief can't and shouldn't be scrutinised which is completely wrong regardless of the findings and on those of us he would like to see a force as powerful as religion questioned.

faceman wrote: »

I fail to see what relevence your analogy is? Atheism appears to use propoganda no different than any other group in society.

Really? I find that hard to believe, considering atheism isn't an ideology. Care to explain how you would herd cats?

faceman wrote: »

You dont believe in a god or an afterlife.

Never said I don't believe there's an afterlife. Ever hear of the immortal gene?

faceman wrote: »

Thats fine, yet you seem sentenced to push your agenda on any non atheist who posts here [in this thread, I dont follow this forum that often]. you are alluding to the non atheist poster to justify their beliefs. You might explain how my post demonstrates an insecurity?

Simple you don't want to share the experience and you don't have to but why mention at all and then use as validation for your beliefs?

rockbeer

faceman wrote: »

If we took that attitude in life we wouldnt trust or believe in anything or anyone.

Absolutely not. If we take that attitude in life, we end up trusting and believing in things and people for which there are good reasons and evidence to justify our decision to trust and believe. We can approach things sceptically but with an open mind - as I believe an advance alien might (happy Dades? )

What's the alternative? If you go round trusting everything you hear or read indiscriminately, good luck - you'll be a long time looking for the truth.

The Santa Claus analogy is perfect. What lesson do you draw from having believed in him and discovered it was a lie?

Zillah

I saw an alien once. It was hideous. Did you ever see Alien, with Sigourney Weaver? That's what the alien looked like. Not a big insect, no. It looked like Sigourney Weaver.

toiletduck

Zillah wrote: »

Seems pretty clear to me:

"One of the implements being used to scrape samples off the Surveyor parts was laid down on a non-sterile laboratory bench, and then was used to collect surface samples for culturing. To quote Jaffe, 'It is, therefore, quite possible that the microorganisms were transferred to the camera after its return to Earth, and that they had never been to the Moon."

I remember reading all about the red rain years ago. Didn't they conclude that the most likely explanation was desert sand transported to the vicinity and mixed with atmospheric water?

I just remembered, it was a horizon show. There was no clear cut explanation, although the guy who was proposing the bacteria explanation has lost a lot of credibility due to recent findings.

As for the moon lander, maybe you're right. What I think is the bigger point is that scientists have to take the contamination scenario seriously, hence the sterilisation of various probes so there may just be something to the theory that they can survive in the vacuum of space.

I reckon that if extra terrestrial bacterial life is ever discovered, this will not impact negatively on religions. I imagine half will claim it's compatible with their holy books and the other half will claim that contamination occurred.

faceman

Dear Lord the void, i give up! I concede, Im a converted atheist. damn you for hitting me with your science! I rejoice in the black and while reality of life.

I saw a UFO once above a church in tallaght. I dont think the aliens were visiting the church but it was about as religious as them greys got i guess.

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

Dear Lord the void, i give up! I concede, Im a converted atheist. damn you for hitting me with your science! I rejoice in the black and while reality of life.

What a bizarre and childish thing to say.

faceman

Zillah wrote: »

What a bizarre and childish thing to say.

OK the comment is tongue in cheek but the point is that its very difficult for either argument to convince the other who is right or wrong and both sides will always take a high chair approach to the other. There is very little tolerance.

Goduznt Xzst

faceman wrote: »

What is my experience being shared hear going to achieve? I have told my experience to anyone who has asked me in real life? Like i said it was a personal experience. Do you post pictures of yourself in the nude in the net? I expect not.

I'm not asking you to divulge it. I'm asking you to ask yourself the questions I posed, I do not need to hear your answers.

and yes, if a picture of my naked body would prove the existence of the God then I would post it on the internet, as it stands my naked body only proves the existence of a God

faceman wrote: »

If we took that attitude in life we wouldnt trust or believe in anything or anyone.

Most humans live their lives by the law of averages, and their trust is usually based on this. We weigh up probabilities and make decisions based on this. You get in a car in full knowledge that people die from crashes of those vehicles every day. But the probability is acceptable enough that you take the risk anyway. If you look at every aspect of your life you live it the same way.

Yet when it comes to your religion you require no evidence to worship your God and ignore all evidence that is stacked against it. In all probability your God does not exist, much like you are satisfied to accept that Zeus and previously worshipped Gods do not exist. It is illogical and goes against your natural reasoning abilities as a human.

What I find funny/sad is that a person will put more thought into and demand more evidence about what car they will drive then what deity they will devote their life to. They require no evidence before changing the pattern of their life to serve a God they've never seen but ask a person to hand over money to buy a car they have never seen or driven and they will look at you like you are crazy.

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

OK the comment is tongue in cheek but the point is that its very difficult for either argument to convince the other who is right or wrong and both sides will always take a high chair approach to the other. There is very little tolerance.

I'm not asking you to convince me. This is pure curiosity. I would like to know what it was that caused you to have your beliefs. I am also very curious to find out if they are anything that isn't better explained by something else.

rockbeer

Santa brought me an alien one year but god told me it was evil so I gave it away to the fairies.

(That should cover all the bases.)