M7 - Nenagh to Limerick

Deedsie

123easy wrote: »

I think you would need divine intervention for it to be open at the end of August!

Your prob right, It's four weeks work all the same Monday to Sunday. We have waited long enough. If it's possible it should be done

L1011

IF that concrete cap is OK there's probably 4 days of concerted work in surfacing, lining, getting the barrier in there and the general wash up etc needed to open. Not 4 weeks.

Deedsie

MYOB wrote: »

IF that concrete cap is OK there's probably 4 days of concerted work in surfacing, lining, getting the barrier in there and the general wash up etc needed to open. Not 4 weeks.

And i suppose the only way to know if the concrete cap is ok is to wait and see? But you'd hardly have to wait till blasted october?

Its absurd to think i will take that long? Barring waiting to see if anything sinks?

Empire o de Sun

you can count 28 days from the day of the last pour. That's when the design strength is reached (in theory).

lottpaul

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

you can count 28 days from the day of the last pour. That's when the design strength is reached (in theory).

Does that mean they cannot do any more work during that time? (must they leave the concrete bare etc for the 28 days)
Many thanks

Berty

lottpaul wrote: »

Does that mean they cannot do any more work during that time? (must they leave the concrete bare etc for the 28 days)
Many thanks

A test will be performed by crushing a number of cubes of the concrete taken during the pouring/pumping of the section.

These will be tested using kilonewtons of pressure. If it passes the sites pre defined requirments then the curing will be complete and they can "work away".

If not then by right they should remove the slab and start again but the chances of that happening are slim.

I understand Mattest will also have a sample taken away so that may add a number of days to the test. They will take it back to Portlaoise to test.

gryff

lottpaul wrote: »

Does that mean they cannot do any more work during that time? (must they leave the concrete bare etc for the 28 days)
Many thanks

....why do I bother !!!... put up a pic a couple of posts back showing lots of shiny plant pushing tons of fill over the concrete...not to mention the application of a black waterproofing and membrane already covering the concrete cap...

trellheim

A test will be performed by crushing a number of cubes of the concrete taken during the pouring/pumping of the section.

but what happens if it just starts sinking again, that's surely nothing to do with curing, isn't it just the same as putting an empty plate on top of a basin of water and hoping it won't sink when you drive a car over it ?

lottpaul

gryff wrote: »

....why do I bother !!!... put up a pic a couple of posts back showing lots of shiny plant pushing tons of fill over the concrete...not to mention the application of a black waterproofing and membrane already covering the concrete cap...

And it was appreciated - my question perhaps ought to have said "should they be carrying out anymore work" etc but, sheesh,
perhaps I shouldn't even have bothered asking at all

Empire o de Sun

Concrete obtains its strength relatively quickly in the first few days, but this strength gain slow down continuously. However (in theory) concrete is always getting stronger but the rate of this strength gain is always slowing.

gryff

lottpaul wrote: »

And it was appreciated - my question perhaps ought to have said "should they be carrying out anymore work" etc but, sheesh,
perhaps I shouldn't even have bothered asking at all

...naaw its a fair enough question - to be honest it needs to be asked , how can you add a 100m length of concrete cap - the width of the motorway x 600mm approx and expect the piles to take the extra weight ?... density = 2400kg per m3... volume approx 100 x 9 x 0.6..
overall weight = 1300 tonnes... thats a lot of full 40' trailers

Deedsie

gryff wrote: »

...naaw its a fair enough question - to be honest it needs to be asked , how can you add a 100m length of concrete cap - the width of the motorway x 600mm approx and expect the piles to take the extra weight ?... density = 2400kg per m3... volume approx 100 x 9 x 0.6..
overall weight = 1300 tonnes... thats a lot of full 40' trailers

Would I be right in saying, that the fact they are continuing working on top of the concrete slab by laying the black membrane and the fill that the strength of the concrete hadms met the requirements for the site?

Empire o de Sun

gryff wrote: »

...naaw its a fair enough question - to be honest it needs to be asked , how can you add a 100m length of concrete cap - the width of the motorway x 600mm approx and expect the piles to take the extra weight ?... density = 2400kg per m3... volume approx 100 x 9 x 0.6..
overall weight = 1300 tonnes... thats a lot of full 40' trailers

Cos it's designed to, simple as.

The piles are standing on bedrock or very stiff clay.

The soil below the bog is probably as compressed as you can get it, cos it probably had up to a km or more or ice on top of it in the last ice age. So it is fairly compacted and isn't going to move.

trellheim

So it is fairly compacted and isn't going to move.

Fingers crossed and light a candle, eh ? I love scientific backup me.

Deedsie

I just emailed this to my three TDs and the NRA hopefully one of them will have some information.

I was hoping ye could find out how far ahead progress is on the M7 Nenagh to Limerick Road - Birdhill to Limerick Section? I am aware of the problems the road faced but i have been down on the site and from conversations with people familiar with the project it seems to me as if it is almost complete. Has there been any update on when this road might open? Considering it is now over a year delayed surely people are entitled to be more informed on the progress/problems of this project. Will it be opened by September, October? With the great news of the opening of the Limerick Tunnel last week I had hoped we might get some official word on this road.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Kind regards,

Deedsie

First reply,

We are looking at November. They have finally surmounted the issue with the
bog, and I will be pushing The NRA to announce an opening date as soon as
humanly possible.


Regards,

Michael Lowry, *T.D.

And my reply to that:

Michael,

Thank you for the reply, it is very encouraging to hear the bog issue has been surmounted. I am a little concerned however, that a 300 metre section of road will take 3 months plus to open, bearing in mind that as you said "they have finally surmounted the issue with the bog"? I am very familiar with this road. I travel between Nenagh and Limerick countless times each year. The rest of this project is finished, every aspect of it as far as can be seen, and a fantastic piece of infrastructure it is going to be. It would do alot for commuters confidence if the work that will take 3 months from now is published for the publics viewing. A newsletter or an update to the website or even an interview with the local media for example.

Regards,

And TD Michael Lowrys reply,

I travel the road a lot myself. Everybody wants it open ASAP. The work that needs to be done is the completion of the piling project surfacing and ancillary works.

The company contracted are bearing the full cost of the work of this delay.
You can be damn sure they want it open and to be out of there as quickly as possible as they have made a loss on the project because of this.

Michael Lowry, *T.D.

Wild Bill

The issues surrounding the Bog of Doom are to be settled in the Courts - so I don't expect anyone involved to be too chatty! :cool:

Empire o de Sun

trellheim wrote: »

Fingers crossed and light a candle, eh ? I love scientific backup me.

Well you won't get better compacted soil than soil that was compacted by a glacier.

The Word Is Bor

Wild Bill wrote: »

The issues surrounding the Bog of Doom are to be settled in the Courts - so I don't expect anyone involved to be too chatty! :cool:

The Four Goldmines will indeed be very busy.

Deedsie

Second reply:

Thank you for your email.

Remedial works are progressing on the section of road concerned and it
is anticipated that the scheme will be complete towards the end of
September.

Regards,

Annamarie McNally
Programme Administrator

National Roads Authority, St. Martin's House,
Waterloo Road, Dublin 4.
Tel. 00 353 1 660 2511.

fresca

Ms McNally must be sick of us!!!!:p
I don't know how many times I've emailed her about different schemes....

and btw, you never got a bollicking for "... i have been down on the site..."...
you know, the old, "this site is not open to the public" routine!

Deedsie

fresca wrote: »

Ms McNally must be sick of us!!!!:p
I don't know how many times I've emailed her about different schemes....

and btw, you never got a bollicking for "... i have been down on the site..."...
you know, the old, "this site is not open to the public" routine!

I have to say the updates provided or general information about the progress of these schemes is appalling. We have paid enough money for these roads. Surely the public are entitled to some bit of an explanation every now and again. I found Michael Lowrys email very interesting I had to cut out a bit of it. He is a great man to reply, the other two North Tipperary TDs you may aswell not waste your time emailing them.

So Lowry says November, NRA say late September... Smart money is on an October opening? Hopefully try are trying to quieten expectation and surprise us all by opening it sooner.

October will do, I'd just like if they would announce it officially!

Wild Bill

Deedsie wrote: »

October will do, I'd just like if they would announce it officially!

Come on Deedsie - admit it! You just want to pin them to a date so you can trash them if they miss it .

Deedsie

Wild Bill wrote: »

Come on Deedsie - admit it! You just want to pin them to a date so you can trash them if they miss it .

Not much more thrashing can be done, contractor is operating at a loss. I just want it to open as fast and safely as humanly possible. I think an update should be released for the public.

"The work that needs to be done is the completion of the piling project surfacing and ancillary works" surely the piling project is done if the concrete has been laid?

How long would surfacing and ancillary works take?

Berty

Deedsie wrote: »

How long would surfacing and ancillary works take?

Ancillary works. Hmmm how long is a piece of string I guess?

Surfacing. The main issue is the amount of rain we are having. By right and under specific guildines you cannot lay blacktop in the rain because of the water/air pockets that can form beneath the surface. There is a also a temperature issue to contend with but as we are in the supposed Summer that wont be an issue.

If it doesnt rain they could have that section down on all the layers in a week IF they perform the tests immediately after each section and lay lane by lane from east to west/west to east giving the test technicians a chance to accurately test the blacktop in the lab of the preceeding sections.

Throw down a concrete barrier which moves at around 10kph(curber).

Throw down some lane markings.

Drainage.

Crash barrier.

Landscaping.

Deedsie

Berty wrote: »

Ancillary works. Hmmm how long is a piece of string I guess?

Surfacing. The main issue is the amount of rain we are having. By right and under specific guildines you cannot lay blacktop in the rain because of the water/air pockets that can form beneath the surface. There is a also a temperature issue to contend with but as we are in the supposed Summer that wont be an issue.

If it doesnt rain they could have that section down on all the layers in a week IF they perform the tests immediately after each section and lay lane by lane from east to west/west to east giving the test technicians a chance to accurately test the blacktop in the lab of the preceeding sections.

Throw down a concrete barrier which moves at around 10kph(curber).

Throw down some lane markings.

Drainage.

Crash barrier.

Landscaping.

So hope for some nice weather... Do you think that will take to the end of September?

gryff

picture of the infamous section this morning-- looks ready for tarmac... great progress in recent weeks--- except until walking further up the road --about 400m in the Birdhill direction there's a depressing little piece of subsided /cracked tarmac on the LHS - with a couple of contractors spray paint markings either side of it.. the section is small - about 2m long and the cracking is minimal so hopefully theres an easier fix for it.

Sponge Bob

gryff wrote: »

except until walking further up the road --about 400m in the Birdhill direction there's a depressing little piece of subsided /cracked tarmac on the LHS - with a couple of contractors spray paint markings either side of it.. the section is small - about 2m long and the cracking is minimal so hopefully theres an easier fix for it.

I kinda hate to say this but there likely is no easier fix for it 'Easy' fixes are what caused all the hassle in the twin bogs.

Deedsie

gryff wrote: »

except until walking further up the road --about 400m in the Birdhill direction there's a depressing little piece of subsided /cracked tarmac on the LHS - with a couple of contractors spray paint markings either side of it.. the section is small - about 2m long and the cracking is minimal so hopefully theres an easier fix for it.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I kinda hate to say this but there likely is no easier fix for it 'Easy' fixes are what caused all the hassle in the twin bogs.

Hopefully it will be straight forward, does this kind of thing happen on other projects away from bogs. Slight cracks appearing?

Wild Bill

Deedsie wrote: »

Hopefully it will be straight forward, does this kind of thing happen on other projects away from bogs. Slight cracks appearing?

There is an interesting sinking section on the M11 Gorey bypass. On both carriageways there is a 10m section that seems to keep subsiding.