M7 - Nenagh to Limerick

mossym

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't think you are going to get your wish. Them putting up the central barrier and railings would be a clue they are not of a mind to wait and see.

The sooner it opens the better.

If problems arise, they can just close it off again and divert traffic as is being done now.

plus, the opening of the road likely closes the contract with the contractor, meaning any future works would be at the cost of the taxpayer. Unless they've redone the contract to cover this, opening the road would be an absolutely crazy idea

i agree the barriers and markings would suggest no waiting, but would really seem another case of this country acting now and paying the consequences later. If there isn't solid proof to say the road is safe then don't open it and just hope that it is. we don't need another case of blind optimism being dragged along by stupidity

Amtmann

mossym wrote: »

plus, the opening of the road likely closes the contract with the contractor, meaning any future works would be at the cost of the taxpayer.

I doubt this somehow. Methinks the contractor would be liable for any repairs needed for at least a few years after the opening.

mossym

Furet wrote: »

I doubt this somehow. Methinks the contractor would be liable for any repairs needed for at least a few years after the opening.

that would make it better.

however if they just keep patching over cracks until their contract is up and then land the goverment with it is that any better?

look at the bridge collapse under the train last year, built on a weir with no solid footing, but *no-one* knew...

i think it's way mroe prudent to ensure the road is properly built rather than use the public as a testing platform. I'd rather a 1 month delay to make sure it is fixed than open it for 2/3 months and have it shut for a year again as they are stumped again

Deedsie

mossym wrote: »

that would make it better.

however if they just keep patching over cracks until their contract is up and then land the goverment with it is that any better?

look at the bridge collapse under the train last year, built on a weir with no solid footing, but *no-one* knew...

i think it's way mroe prudent to ensure the road is properly built rather than use the public as a testing platform. I'd rather a 1 month delay to make sure it is fixed than open it for 2/3 months and have it shut for a year again as they are stumped again

An independent engineer should be brought in too test the road,

luohaoran

mossym wrote: »

that would make it better.

however if they just keep patching over cracks until their contract is up and then land the goverment with it is that any better?

look at the bridge collapse under the train last year, built on a weir with no solid footing, but *no-one* knew...

i think it's way mroe prudent to ensure the road is properly built rather than use the public as a testing platform. I'd rather a 1 month delay to make sure it is fixed than open it for 2/3 months and have it shut for a year again as they are stumped again

I don't see any benefit in waiting further.
IMO the two sections that subsided and have now been repaired have a good chance of staying put for quite a while.
I'd say its more likely subsidence will occur elsewhere.
And subsidence being what it is, is likely to occur slowly over time. Or not at all.

If they couldn't tell that these sections were ok or not, I don't see what they can learn by waiting an arbitrary month.

Just open it, if anything, the traffic will stress test the road faster than just looking at it, will.
I don't imagine a subsidence rip in the road is likely to happen suddenly, causing a major traffic accident. Sudden , in subsidence terms would probably mean over a couple of days.
But I'm just speculating.

mossym

luohaoran wrote: »

have a good chance of staying put for quite a while.

But I'm just speculating.

that's the probelm i see with it, you know how much this road cost right? it's alright for me and you to be speculating, but given how much we have paid for it, (and it is we) do you not think we need a lot mroe than "a good chance". we paid experts far too much for them to just reckon it has a good chance

If i was selling you a brand new car in the morning and told you there was a good chance it would still be going in a happy would you be happy? you'd run a mile

believe me, i want this road open, my total daily commute will be 36 miles out of 42 on this motorway, so i want it open, but i also want to make sure it's done right and we got what we paid for.

mossym

Deedsie wrote: »

An independent engineer should be brought in too test the road,

that'd work, anything to make sure it is done right before the contracter opens the road, we don't neccesarily have to wait and see. test it anyway they want but not with the general public

just make sure they have done the job they were paid to do...

luohaoran

mossym wrote: »

that'd work, anything to make sure it is done right before the contracter opens the road, we don't neccesarily have to wait and see. test it anyway they want but not with the general public

just make sure they have done the job they were paid to do...

@Mossym

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

But I don't see what it is you are looking/hoping for.
If there was "a test" they could do, I'd imagine we wouldn't be in this situation.

Also, the terminology "a good chance" is me saying what I think, and as a layman, I have to use "loose" wording, as I'm not an expert. I wouldn't imagine you'll hear the contractors using the same words to describe their work.

Its probably fair to say that with hindsight , the contractors overestimated their ability to solve this engineering problem.
But thats where we are.
And from here forward, I'd speculate the road may have to be periodically closed to fix any reoccurrence of subsidence.

It would be nice to know who will be paying for this going forward.
As Furet suggested , I'd imagine the contractors are stuck with this for at least a couple of years.

gryff

Deedsie wrote: »

Has there been any change at the cracks back towards Birdhill? The on that had been marked with paint?

Crack before work was carried out...

gryff

and this is from last Saturday..

ki

Good work gryff.

Deedsie

gryff wrote: »

Crack before work was carried out...

gryff wrote: »

and this is from last Saturday..

You're a scholar and a gent Gryff.

mossym

luohaoran wrote: »

@Mossym

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

But I don't see what it is you are looking/hoping for.
If there was "a test" they could do, I'd imagine we wouldn't be in this situation.

in the absense of a real test then i would imagine best case then would be what i said, put on layer, wait and see if any problems unloaded, then a staggered opening with trucks and buses not allowed on it, then a full opening with everything on it with continued monitoring for a set period

throwing another layer on it and opening it with fingers crossed reeks of desperation to me.....(I do accept maybe i'm being over critical, but i do a fair bit of project management where i work and proceeding down a path with no contingency plan and stress testing would get me a serious reprimand from my bosses, i'd expect the same level of thoroughness here)

Deedsie

I just received the following response from minister Dempseys office.

Dear Mr.,

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your email dated 5 August 2010 regarding the M7 Nenagh to Limerick Road - Birdhill to Limerick Section.

The final two sections of the M7 Limerick to Dublin are approaching final stages for completion. The Nenagh to Limerick Section is expected to open by late September/Early October.* The Castletown to Nenagh is on schedule and expected to open by the end of the year.


Yours sincerely,
_________________________
Noel Dempsey TD
Minister for Transport

mossym

Deedsie wrote: »

I just received the following response from minister Dempseys office.

Dear Mr.,

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your email dated 5 August 2010 regarding the M7 Nenagh to Limerick Road - Birdhill to Limerick Section.

The final two sections of the M7 Limerick to Dublin are approaching final stages for completion. The Nenagh to Limerick Section is expected to open by late September/Early October.* The Castletown to Nenagh is on schedule and expected to open by the end of the year.


Yours sincerely,
_________________________
Noel Dempsey TD
Minister for Transport

diid you add the star beside october or was it in the original?

AOwannabe

Work on the bog section will be complete within 2 weeks. Extensive testing has been ongoing constantly and they will not have a "wait and see" period when it's finished.

However, minor ancillary works on the entire section won't be complete for up to four weeks. Ultimately the decision lies with the NRA whether to open the road when the bog section is complete or wait for the other works to be finished.

Deedsie

mossym wrote: »

diid you add the star beside october or was it in the original?

Neither, I don't know where that star came from. Wasn't in the original and I didn't add it. Strange

Hopefully ancillary works can be completed after the section is opened. We have waited long enough NRA.

ullickmagee

Deedsie wrote: »

Neither, I don't know where that star came from. Wasn't in the original and I didn't add it. Strange

Hopefully ancillary works can be completed after the section is opened. We have waited long enough NRA.

September / Early October *

*Which Year???

L1011

I noticed today there is still some small bits and pieces to be done at the join between the unopened bit of N-L and the ring road in Limerick, lining/studding etc.

Deedsie

AOwannabe wrote: »

Work on the bog section will be complete within 2 weeks. Extensive testing has been ongoing constantly and they will not have a "wait and see" period when it's finished.

However, minor ancillary works on the entire section won't be complete for up to four weeks. Ultimately the decision lies with the NRA whether to open the road when the bog section is complete or wait for the other works to be finished.

You sound like you are in the know. In your opinion could the ancillary works be carried out withe road open to the public?

AOwannabe

Deedsie wrote: »

You sound like you are in the know. In your opinion could the ancillary works be carried out withe road open to the public?

Yes, it will be technically possible to open the road first and then carry out ancillary works. I don't have much info I'm afraid as I only had a very brief chat with a senior engineer on the project.

He also said the Castletown - Nenagh section wouldn't be open until Christmas.

Deedsie

AOwannabe wrote: »

Yes, it will be technically possible to open the road first and then carry out ancillary works. I don't have much info I'm afraid as I only had a very brief chat with a senior engineer on the project.

He also said the Castletown - Nenagh section wouldn't be open until Christmas.

That is just gutting news. How is the Castletown to Nenagh road taking so long.

L1011

Michael Lowry was on TippFM this morning saying (in relation to another matter) that the "M7 project is ending on September 30th". Take from that what you will...

scartman1

jacksie66 wrote: »

Was up at the road again today. Great progress made in a week! Another week or so and I say we'll be flyin it. Here's some pics for ye to gawk at

In fairness to the sub contractor who I understood carried out this entire piece of work for Bothar Hibernian, it has to be handed to him that they did not hang about once they got on the ground. They are from Ballinasloe, MEIC.

123easy

scartman1 wrote: »

In fairness to the sub contractor who I understood carried out this entire piece of work for Bothar Hibernian, it has to be handed to him that they did not hang about once they got on the ground. They are from Ballinasloe, MEIC.

I suggest you look up who the constituent companies of Bothar Hibernian are!!

scartman1

Bothar Hibernian are a joint venture as i understand of Coffey, McNamara and Mota Engil, but MEIC are not part of BH. They work independently. I have seen them in Lahinch last Summer doing the life guard station.

Regardless, they got stuck in and got the work done. It was like clockwork. Credit where credit is due.

L1011

MEIC stands for Mota Engil Ireland Construction. They have been doing all of Mota Engil's work on this project.

gryff

gawd I thought it was Matty English Incredible Contractin' ... anyway - was up the road last night and the crash barrier is more or less finished and the 'template' or whatever you call is on on the tarmac for the line painting and cats eyes....days in it..

Deedsie

gryff wrote: »

gawd I thought it was Matty English Incredible Contractin' ... anyway - was up the road last night and the crash barrier is more or less finished and the 'template' or whatever you call is on on the tarmac for the line painting and cats eyes....days in it..

Mighty stuff, I wonder if they will be working through the weekend to get it done? It should definitely be done by the end of August? Will the ancillary works really take until September 30th?

trellheim

i'd sat the nra are watching that chunk of expenditure like hawks so i'd say probably sooner than not. What happens if she sinks again ?