A few songs if you dont mind reading and opinions

pajodublin

Would like to hear what you all think
all these have been recorded at some stage using most of the lyrics below
so if you want to hear them just ask

1. Say that you're wrong

Here I am waiting
Constantly changing
Waiting for you to arrive
Another big lesson that keeps you all guessing
While keeping my eyes on the prize
Maybe one day we'll all go away
But it won't be too far for too long
We'll fuss and we'll fight
Maybe all night but
You'll never say that you're wrong

Say that you're wrong
Say that you're wrong

You fly away from
Me, I'll stay at home
Leave all your troubles behind
Go think it over maybe I'll move on
But you say you really don't mind
Maybe one day we'll all go away
But it won't be too far for too long
We'll fuss and we'll fight
Maybe all night but
You'll never say that you're wrong

Say that you're wrong
Say that you're wrong
Say that you're wrong
Say that you're wrong

2. Feel Alive (unfinished)

(V)In the summer
then it's over
and all i can see is you
on the upside
it helps me try to realise somehow
it is safe to turn the other cheek
i don't know how
you can take this
to get through all the week
But I

(C) Feel alive, i see the skies
i feel alive not too far away
I feel alive, i know whats right
I feel alive just for one day



3. Butterfly

Now you know your day is long
and you feel as though the work you do is never done
How you know your race is run
Just hold on to me we'll be the light that makes the sun

Butterfly, the colour of the sky when the light hits your eyes
Butterfly, I know the reasons why before you're making me smile
Butterfly, the tiniest moments that will last through our lives
Butterfly, we got hopes and dreams, let's sit and watch them fly

What I've looked for now have found
and I promise you that I could never let you down
don't move don't make a sound
I can feel my heart and I hear yours beating all around

Butterfly, the colour of the sky when the light hits your eyes
Butterfly, I know the reasons why before you're making me smile
Butterfly, the tiniest moments that will last through our lives
Butterfly, we got hopes and dreams, let's sit and watch them fly
Sit and watch them fly,
Sit and watch them fly



thanks
Pajo

Mulan

Hi there

I think butterfly is very good.
It Feels like a soft song with soft music, if that makes any sense.

Would love to hear it.

Thanks

reunion

pajodublin wrote: »

1. Say that you're wrong

Here I am waiting
Constantly changing
Waiting for you to arrive
Another big lesson that keeps you all guessing
While keeping my eyes on the prize
Maybe one day we'll all go away
But it won't be too far for too long
We'll fuss and we'll fight
Maybe all night but
You'll never say that you're wrong

Ok so as i read this, im putting my own version of music behind this, and what i hear is guitar and drums. (maybe drums not sure if it is the guitar played differently or if its drums.) Maybe a live recording might help.

Here I am
waiting for you
Waiting for you(the you is slightly extended) to arrive
Another lesson keeps me guessin' (i know i hate people who shorten words like this too but its works better in the song)
While keeping my eyes on the prize (Is this line really nessicary?)
That one day we can go away (maybe can doesn't need to be there)
it's not too far or too long
We'll fuss and fight
Maybe all night
but You never
never say
that you're wrong.



Ok i have just realised now that actually, how its sang etc is something similar to Far away by Nickleback (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4y-RzVGrHg) and maybe it might be too similar with just different lyrics in my head... so I'm going to stop because it's probably not constructive as this is clearly not the way the song was meant to be played, again a live recording or at least some sort of beat/rythem might help.

pajodublin

Mulan wrote: »

Hi there

I think butterfly is very good.
It Feels like a soft song with soft music, if that makes any sense.

Would love to hear it.

Thanks

http://www.myspace.com/illusionalmusic
number 3 in the music player


@reunion: same address as above but number 2
its a live version
full version has drums

Mulan

Nice stuff there
Nice album cover
Good Luck

cufroige

Hey Pajo,
Just listened to Butterfly on myspace. there's potential but I would try & re-draft it. I've just drank a lot of coffee so I'm a bit unfocused here but I'll try to help with a critique.

Firstly,the woman in question is the butterfly metaphor (assuming it is a woman ;-)), so you shouldn't also lend that metaphor to your collective hopes & dreams. So you need to choose what/who is represented by the butterfly, and nothing else takes flight only the 'butterfly'
I think you've more scope for the lady as the butterfly.

Second, on first listen I couldn't relate to what exactly you're expressing to your lady, as it is a bit unclear. In general it's obviously about love, but the content of what that love means and what you are offering is not hitting with impact. I'm sure you want your audience to relate or to say 'damn, i wish i could say that 'or 'that's exactly how I feel'...& in order to do that you need to clarify what exactly it is you're saying to butterfly. What i do get after reading the lyric a few times is that....

1. butterfly works hard & is knackered or maybe going through a lot
2. you want to look after butterfly & love her & be her rock, her love
3. this is possibly a new relationship or if not there is something else going on, some sort of stress on butterfly
4 butterfly makes you happy
5 you want to build a future together

I gathered this information only from reading your lyrics & listening more than once. You only have 3 minutes to express these things & they need to be clear, understood & relatable to the listener, first time around.

I would rework the lyrics to say the above clearer, more consisely, memorably & in a catchier way. The chorus alone is a mouthful.

I've done a quick drafting of your lyrics below to give an example of what I mean. Remember the old adage, Less is more.
Ryhme as accurately as you can, (some will disagree with this in general but for this song I think it applies) it will lodge the information in the listeners brain.
Also, pay careful attention to how your lyrics land on the music you play beneath them... stress syllables/ words with what sounds like a natural rythm.. and be repeat the pattern of syllables. Don't have 2 ryhmed lines 1 with 4 syllables & the other with 5, if ya get me

Here is just an example of what might be an edited version/draft, I'm not trying to re-write your song, (it's a draft it's just a working example, a reference) because the song has good potential. You need more clarity in the lyrics to get your general statement across, more musical space (ie less words)

By the way, are you sharing the reference to 'long day' as being a butterflys entire lifespan/ and also miss butterfly's long working/emotional day? I don't think it's obvious enough as a pun or whatever the term is, it'll be lost on us (ur listeners) maybe write a list of things relative to a butterfly & see if you can work in some of those words (even one) like 'wings' 'fragile' 'cocoon' that'd ryhme nicely with moon!! Lol...but remember you've already got the metaphor so you're not looking for another metaphor, just an elaboration/reinforcement of the butterfly one.
Also, you don't need to tell a story here, you are just reinforcing that you are in love. so concentrate on a list of good words/ phrases rhymes & find the best way to place them

So here is what the next draft might look like,

Hey I know your day is long (there's a whole 2 bars of musical space here)
The work you do is never done
I will be your light, your sun
Just hold on to me I'll be there
when your race is run (this is completely off subject with the butterfly metaphor/theme, obviously butterfly's don't run)
maybe [day is done]

Butterfly, Colouring the sky
Butterfly, that light in your eyes
Butterfly you're my reason why
Butterfly, you're making me smile
(you need to mess around quite a bit to achieve a good sing along chorus here, something simple & fluid... Actually it would be a good idea to end the last line of your chorus with the word 'butterfly...."blah blah blah, butterfly")

All that dreaming now I've found
Feel so lucky I won't let you down
your wings beating to the sound
my heart's full of hope
with you around

Or something..whatever, just try shortening & tightening your expressive language. Keep it as simple as you can
And keep drafting until you're happy that it sounds natural, flowing, familiar.

Draft, draft draft, sing each version, record yourself doing it & you will more than likely stumble on a perfect line by accident.

If you put your sweat into this you'll have a great tune there for yourself!

I hope this is somewhat helpful to you.....;)

Keep it up & the best of luck

pajodublin

cufroige wrote: »

Hey Pajo,
Just listened to Butterfly on myspace. there's potential but I would try & re-draft it. I've just drank a lot of coffee so I'm a bit unfocused here but I'll try to help with a critique.

Firstly,the woman in question is the butterfly metaphor (assuming it is a woman ;-)), so you shouldn't also lend that metaphor to your collective hopes & dreams. So you need to choose what/who is represented by the butterfly, and nothing else takes flight only the 'butterfly'
I think you've more scope for the lady as the butterfly.

Second, on first listen I couldn't relate to what exactly you're expressing to your lady, as it is a bit unclear. In general it's obviously about love, but the content of what that love means and what you are offering is not hitting with impact. I'm sure you want your audience to relate or to say 'damn, i wish i could say that 'or 'that's exactly how I feel'...& in order to do that you need to clarify what exactly it is you're saying to butterfly. What i do get after reading the lyric a few times is that....

1. butterfly works hard & is knackered or maybe going through a lot
2. you want to look after butterfly & love her & be her rock, her love
3. this is possibly a new relationship or if not there is something else going on, some sort of stress on butterfly
4 butterfly makes you happy
5 you want to build a future together

I gathered this information only from reading your lyrics & listening more than once. You only have 3 minutes to express these things & they need to be clear, understood & relatable to the listener, first time around.

I would rework the lyrics to say the above clearer, more consisely, memorably & in a catchier way. The chorus alone is a mouthful.

I've done a quick drafting of your lyrics below to give an example of what I mean. Remember the old adage, Less is more.
Ryhme as accurately as you can, (some will disagree with this in general but for this song I think it applies) it will lodge the information in the listeners brain.
Also, pay careful attention to how your lyrics land on the music you play beneath them... stress syllables/ words with what sounds like a natural rythm.. and be repeat the pattern of syllables. Don't have 2 ryhmed lines 1 with 4 syllables & the other with 5, if ya get me

Here is just an example of what might be an edited version/draft, I'm not trying to re-write your song, (it's a draft it's just a working example, a reference) because the song has good potential. You need more clarity in the lyrics to get your general statement across, more musical space (ie less words)

By the way, are you sharing the reference to 'long day' as being a butterflys entire lifespan/ and also miss butterfly's long working/emotional day? I don't think it's obvious enough as a pun or whatever the term is, it'll be lost on us (ur listeners) maybe write a list of things relative to a butterfly & see if you can work in some of those words (even one) like 'wings' 'fragile' 'cocoon' that'd ryhme nicely with moon!! Lol...but remember you've already got the metaphor so you're not looking for another metaphor, just an elaboration/reinforcement of the butterfly one.
Also, you don't need to tell a story here, you are just reinforcing that you are in love. so concentrate on a list of good words/ phrases rhymes & find the best way to place them

So here is what the next draft might look like,

Hey I know your day is long (there's a whole 2 bars of musical space here)
The work you do is never done
I will be your light, your sun
Just hold on to me I'll be there
when your race is run (this is completely off subject with the butterfly metaphor/theme, obviously butterfly's don't run)
maybe [day is done]

Butterfly, Colouring the sky
Butterfly, that light in your eyes
Butterfly you're my reason why
Butterfly, you're making me smile
(you need to mess around quite a bit to achieve a good sing along chorus here, something simple & fluid... Actually it would be a good idea to end the last line of your chorus with the word 'butterfly...."blah blah blah, butterfly")

All that dreaming now I've found
Feel so lucky I won't let you down
your wings beating to the sound
my heart's full of hope
with you around

Or something..whatever, just try shortening & tightening your expressive language. Keep it as simple as you can
And keep drafting until you're happy that it sounds natural, flowing, familiar.

Draft, draft draft, sing each version, record yourself doing it & you will more than likely stumble on a perfect line by accident.

If you put your sweat into this you'll have a great tune there for yourself!

I hope this is somewhat helpful to you.....;)

Keep it up & the best of luck

thanks for the tips, some good advice there although i dont think i'd ever change the chorus as it means something to me and the lady in question
(the lady in question is my long term GF of 8 years)
i'll give you reasons why

Butterfly, the colour of the sky when the light hits your eyes (she has blue eyes that really illuminate in the sunlight)
Butterfly, I know the reasons why before you're making me smile (i always know whats wrong or what she's up to and trying to cheer me up even though she is down)
Butterfly, the tiniest moments that will last through our lives (just little memories that we will always have together)
Butterfly, we got hopes and dreams, let's sit and watch them fly (we HAVE hopes and dreams and obviously the flying part relates to the butterfly)

i have drafted this song a heap of times, i do like some of our ideas, syllables and close rhyming and having more butterfly characteristics.
Im currently in the process of putting everything together to maybe re-record later this year some of the old tracks and some new ones
ive taken everything on board you've said and again thanks

pajo

cufroige

No prob Pajo, you're very welcome...
As I said before, it’s a nice tune…the melody certainly sticks in your head. That’s really something to be excited about!!

I'll just say this (for the sake of songwriting, professionally)

I understand there are reasons for your chorus being as it is, that you like it that way because it has a specific meaning to you... BUT as the listener, it's not important to me... I want to sing along, I want to take your words & relate them to ME..it's all about me me me!!! (I am the listener, I buy your music..)
Do you know what I mean? Exploit your listener's selfishness by tweaking (coz us songwriters are manipulators) whatever way you must to get them involved.

They really don't care about you & your OH (really, it's true) You don't have to sacrifice meaning in your lyric at all...just tweaking enough to keep the gist but slamming home the musical components means you get your song sold & your girlfriend gets a nice new hermes bag with the dosh!!! lol, just kidding about that last bit...but I hope you understand what I mean coz it's very important. Editing your own work..letting go of specifics etc.. A lot of the time, for us not to do so is a case of either Ego, laziness, feeling you can't do any better...among other things!

I say this to be honest because in the business of songwriting (like it or not) exploitation is at work & the listeners (you & Me) don't even know it. That's why we love the songs we do...we're being exploited, lyrically, melodically, harmonically..It's the dirty little secret of songwriting!!!
Sure there are amazing artists out there composing songs genuinely from the heart, but the emotional creative abandon comes second only to technique!! That means tweak..tweak..that is the perspiration that accompanies the inspiration. There is no such thing as good enough as is.

Case in point:
The Classic Song "Midnight Train to Georgia" was originally titled (Get this..)
"midnight plane to Houston!" That is a fact!

Now if we're talking specifics, I'm sure That example justifies the fact that as writers of songs we need to learn to let go of specifics to better our songs, not for ourselves, but for the songs, for the listeners... It makes us better writers...
(midnight train to Georgia SOMEHOW is just so much more effective & visually powerful-Maybe it's that there are no Airports involved?) Whatever it is it works!! I’m sure the if the writer WAS SPECIFICALLY taking a plane to Houston he had to decide that for the sake of the lyric a ‘train to Georgia’ was more effective.. So he changed his travel plans sure, but he was still leaving!!! Ya get me?

That is not a personal criticism Pajo...Just an honest response, (and one I have taken considerable time to bother with) to your own response that you don't want to change your chorus.. It can always be better, changing it is merely experimental unless it totally rocks, otherwise what you have is still there. Changing things within our songs doesn't mean our songs suffer, we are never in pursuit of a sh1ttier verse or chorus, only better..

Professionals won’t..repeat WILL NOT take writers seriously when we justify mediocracy in our work... An audience won’t either... we owe it to ourselves to sweat, to edit, to let go, to throw it out, to start again, to raise our standards, to strive towards that classic, to never be happy with our songs until strangers sing them in the streets!! (or after our gigs)

We create with our hearts & minds, we create the beginnings of wonderful things, then our ego's ruin our creativity's full potential by kidding us that the inspiration alone is the purest form, that overworking a song’s potential to market it is somehow a sellout. It turns us into Hacks!!
Don't let that happen...:o

Don’t be fooled by the “coolness” of writers such as Oasis & the like who have us believe those wonderful songs started out as good as the finished product. THERE WAS SWEAT…believe it!!!
Good luck with your work.... x

pajodublin

again thanks for the reply
and what a reply
if anything that reply of yours was a real eye opener
makes you really think how it all works
i try to work hard on my songs but for some reason my brain is forcing me into quantity rather than quality

For example
after recording an EP of 7 songs with my band last year
1 song which i loved and loved to play came out so weak i cant even bare to listen to it or even play it anymore
i dont even think a tweak in this song will make it right
Maybe a future B-side
i get what your sayin about the listener
my job is to sell it to them as they would want to hear it and replay it as though they are the figures of the song.
I have not tried this with Butterfly but have tried it with a few others.
the only thing that came from it was me getting annoyed that i couldnt change something because i was so used to how it was.
Eventually i re-wrote the whole song and changed some chords and the whole outlook of the song spoke to me as an outsider.
it was hard work but certainly worth it

Butterfly will probably be the hardest one for me to change but i have a few ideas (rather than the song being directed at someone, the song to be a story to be told to the masses, if u get what i mean)
this song will take days to fix and im hoping to lock myself in a room until i do it,

when i get that chance i will post up the lyrics and send you a PM to have a look and let me know what you think

Thanks Again

Pat