Music production help

kenji

First off hello to all,have been checking out this forum for quite a while and its my first post..Anyway im looking for any help regarding producing tracks,electronic,techno specifically,Being listening to electroinc music for about 13,14 years and mixing on and off for quite a few but unfortunetly
never got into creating tracks which ive wanted to do for some time.Keep in mind i am a complete noob to this:pac:just trying to gather info at the moment
i know a course would be ideal but not practical due to work travel etc,So basically has anyone thought themselves or how did ye start when ya got into it,
Appreciate and info,links,advice etc..i know its a very broad question but sound for any help..btw posted here and not production forums as its only electronic stuff im concerned with and have seen lots of posts on the subject here.
Thanks in advance......

Anima

Get FLStudio and start playing with it basically. I think its probably the best for beginners and it does pack a fair amount of features. Theres loads of sites for tutorials and you'll get a good idea of how things are done after a while. Theres also Reason which is a bit more daunting at first but is quite good also.

seannash

well im kinda like yourself.i cant play an instrument,havbe no musical training so was very confused about how to make track.
best advice is just to start,then ask questions.
most of the programmes out there will let you make music,my choice is logic.its a great all rounder and you wont out grow it.
but yeah i basically started by making mashups in ableton and then slowly started to make my own sounds.
join a forum that is production based,preferrably dance and get on there and ask questions.
i honestly wouldnt have gotten very far without these forums and from these places ive met people who have helped me no end in getting a better sound.
so yeah,start and start asking more specific questions.
to begin with you will need, a laptop,some software(logic,reason,cubase) a midi keyboard,soundcard and maybe some monitors(not essential in the begining whilst your learning the programmes.
if you have a mac you can for go the soundcard as the inbuilt soundcards are good enough to use,pcs stock sound cards are a bit ****.

acman

Check it out:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52935300&postcount=5

Posted by the guy from Binary Finary

jtsuited

get logic or cubase (if you are on mac, get logic)

get a decent drum sample library (vengeance house essentials and minimal house are the best out there)

Get started.

I could go into detail about how to make techno from scratch but I'd probably crash the boards servers.

Main thing to start learning is music theory and sound engineering basics.

Anima

The main thing I would recommend is not to start a project the same way each time. Always try and do things differently and avoid presets/templates. The whole point is that you're making YOUR music and not just modifying someone elses effort. You'll develop an ear sooner than you think and the most important thing is to know when you don't like the sound of something.

If you feel it sounds weak (be it a sample or a synth module), bin it and try something else. You can't "polish a turd" and its true. You can't add valuable frequencies where they don't exist so use quality samples always and never except anything less. I know I've often played with a synth/sample thinking I can make it sound good but it never works out and its a waste of time. Work ONLY with quality samples or with quality synth sounds (lots of dynamic range, expressiveness, change basically). You'll soon find that you won't need to compress or EQ as much and things fall much easier into place.

ArmCandyBaby

This thread reminded me of a random quote that i heard years ago, it's probably not the advice the OP was looking for but I think it's a classic and worth sharing anyway. Maybe someone who hasn't heard it before will appreciate it. If I can remember correctly this was his reply when asked why the BBC Radiophonic Workshop began to suck in the later decades after producing some brilliant music (Dr. Who etc.) when it first started up.

There comes a moment where the technology gets closer and closer to the imagination and creativity of the writer, and in the end, if you're not careful, it overtakes. And suddenly, serendipity — which before was from your own sweat and blood — comes by saying "If I press one of these 397 buttons, maybe I'll get something out of it." Now, at that moment, the machinery is driving the creativity, and the creativity is (no longer) driving the machinery. — David Cain, BBC Radiophonic composer from 1967-1973

gsparx

it's like anything really, it takes practice.
obviously, the first thing you need is an instrument.
instruments come in the shape of software these days, so get yourself some software.
i started on reason and think it's a great program right out of the box.
don't worry about trying to create a masterpiece at first, just put some loops/ sounds together, experiment and as you go on you'll learn the program. it's loads of fun too.
there's no substitute for reading the manual and the reason manual is particularly good.
learning how make sounds on a synth is important too. that way if you hear a sound in your head you know how to go about creating it.
hopefully, you have some musical ability too 'cos you'll need that eventually!
you may find after a while you never ever want to leave your studio....
good luck.

gsparx

acman wrote: »

Check it out:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52935300&postcount=5

Posted by the guy from Binary Finary

impressive. that's a great resource, recommended reading for sure.

empirix

Anima wrote: »

If you feel it sounds weak (be it a sample or a synth module), bin it and try something else. You can't "polish a turd" and its true. You can't add valuable frequencies where they don't exist so use quality samples always and never except anything less. I know I've often played with a synth/sample thinking I can make it sound good but it never works out and its a waste of time. Work ONLY with quality samples or with quality synth sounds (lots of dynamic range, expressiveness, change basically). You'll soon find that you won't need to compress or EQ as much and things fall much easier into place.

I disagree with this big time, if you cant improve something thats already bad then your in trouble, its not the turd thats the problem - its you! AFX, Vibert, Jenkinson, Kraftwerk, JM Jarre - say that to them, its what makes a great artist greater!!

seannash

gsparx wrote: »

it's like anything really, it takes practice.
obviously, the first thing you need is an instrument.
instruments come in the shape of software these days, so get yourself some software.
i started on reason and think it's a great program right out of the box.
don't worry about trying to create a masterpiece at first, just put some loops/ sounds together, experiment and as you go on you'll learn the program. it's loads of fun too.
there's no substitute for reading the manual and the reason manual is particularly good.
learning how make sounds on a synth is important too. that way if you hear a sound in your head you know how to go about creating it.
hopefully, you have some musical ability too 'cos you'll need that eventually!
you may find after a while you never ever want to leave your studio....
good luck.

just like to point out that reason doesnt have audio in so you cant record instruments or vocals into it and it doesnt support 3rd party applications.this means you cant use other vst effects and softsynths.your stuck with what reason gives you,while great isnt ideal

Anima

I disagree with this big time, if you cant improve something thats already bad then your in trouble, its not the turd thats the problem - its you! AFX, Vibert, Jenkinson, Kraftwerk, JM Jarre - say that to them, its what makes a great artist greater!!

Theres a limit to have much you can do though. If theres nothing there to work with, then its always going to sound bad. I agree those artists you mentioned could probably make anything sound good but they're extremely talented and most of us are not :P

gsparx

seannash wrote: »

just like to point out that reason doesnt have audio in so you cant record instruments or vocals into it and it doesnt support 3rd party applications.this means you cant use other vst effects and softsynths.your stuck with what reason gives you,while great isnt ideal

this is true. kenji, if you have a fairly recent mac you probably have garageband which also comes with loops, instruments and effects. it can also be used to record audio.
if you're on a windows PC i'm pretty sure there's a freeware audio recorder to at least get you going in that department.

empirix

As an avid Pro Tools user - im gonna recommend this, PT 8 is being released in december and looks savage, its an expensive choice though!

kenji

Thanks for the replies lads,So basically i should start messin around with something like fl wich i had installed already and work on trial and error,as regarding a setup up i have a dell xps m1530,yamaha hsm80 monitors,audiophile usb ex soundcard and had fl and ableton live installed,kinda confused with all the additional gear like plug-ins,midi controllers,drum machines etc is everything u need not in a program like reason,cubase etc,Hope i can get into it and stick at it,A big question would be has any of ye that has learned this done so without doing a course??Thanks again lads...

seannash

i think the majority of people would be self taught.
ive learned by myself.from what i understand courses tend to focus on the side of engineering that entails recording bands and not really dance music.
so i dont think theyll be of any great benefit.but you can definitely teach yourself how to do it and get professional results at the end of it(may take a few years).better off spending money on equipment rather than a course imo.
just be patient and itll soon fall into place

gsparx

kenji wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads,So basically i should start messin around with something like fl wich i had installed already and work on trial and error,as regarding a setup up i have a dell xps m1530,yamaha hsm80 monitors,audiophile usb ex soundcard and had fl and ableton live installed,kinda confused with all the additional gear like plug-ins,midi controllers,drum machines etc is everything u need not in a program like reason,cubase etc,Hope i can get into it and stick at it,A big question would be has any of ye that has learned this done so without doing a course??Thanks again lads...

a course might help but it's certainly not necessary.
if you have FL and Live then you don't need any additional software, plug-ins or drum machines for now. the software you have contains all these things. you may find you need to add later but you've got plenty of toys at your disposal.
what you will need is some kind of keyboard to play the sounds you have stored on your computer.
you can "draw" notes with a mouse but this is obviously very limiting.
the keyboards/ synths available can broadly be divided into two categories. one type is simply a midi controller (usually cheaper). it has no sounds of its own and controls whatever software instruments you have on your computer. the other is a more traditional synthesizer which has its own sounds/ filters/ FX etc. this type can also be used to control external sounds.
keyboards are usually connected to the computer via midi interface and /or USB.
hook up a keyboard, read the manuals and start messing around.
i found Live to have a fairly steep learning curve but it's a great program. maybe for someone else starting from scratch it could be great to learn on.

kenji

Well i have been playin around with FL8 for the past week now and have kinda figured out how it works but as regarding the composition,building of tracks,placing of sounds etc im fairly lost atm,so if anyone could advise me on a good source(books,online etc)of music theory this should help?Bear in mind i am a noob:rolleyes:Also any recommendations on a midi keyboard,nothing too high end but something i would get use out of at the same time..Cheers lads...

seannash

pick a track you like and copy it,if they have drums at the begining for 30 seconds do drums for 30 seconds.if they introduce the bass at 30 seconds you introduce the bass at 30 seconds etc etc.

Stu-b-one

just a suggestion on the midi keyboard make sure to get one with midi in out and through you will need it as your midi chain grows

-jethro-

producing music is not something you can learn yourself, unless you are extremely dedicated and talented. i studied digital audio for 2 years - learning reason, pro tools, midi interfaces and recording studio sound decks. its something that you really need someone to show you how to do things, because if you try learn it yourself youl inevitably miss out on lots of details.

Programs like reason, pro tools and ableton are not easy to learn if your trying to make 'proper' music, ive been using the first two for over 4 years now and im still learning.

and as for mastering, thats something you cannot teach yourself, its the most difficult art of all and regardless what anyone says you need to be taught this for sure!

seannash

-jethro- wrote: »

producing music is not something you can learn yourself, unless you are extremely dedicated and talented. i studied digital audio for 2 years - learning reason, pro tools, midi interfaces and recording studio sound decks. its something that you really need someone to show you how to do things, because if you try learn it yourself youl inevitably miss out on lots of details.

Programs like reason, pro tools and ableton are not easy to learn if your trying to make 'proper' music, ive been using the first two for over 4 years now and im still learning.

and as for mastering, thats something you cannot teach yourself, its the most difficult art of all and regardless what anyone says you need to be taught this for sure!

well obviously you wont be able to learn it yourself without help but a course isnt necessary.i know lots of people who make music and have never taken a course.theres production forums where you can pick up tips and tricks and get input from other people.theres also article you can read aswell as books.
join a production forum for your chosen software and start asking questions or searching for answers there

electrofilth

it is possible to be self-taught, but i suppose that depends on how good you are at figuring stuff out and comprehending manuals.

Personally I was in bands for years so understand music structure and basic theory and also I did a full time one year course in sound engineering in 2000 in Temple Lane Studios.

The course was brilliant, it covered mainly studio recording and sound engineering theory and a lot of digital workstations too. It was as comprehensive as a one year course could be, and I regret not paying more attention to the in-depth theory classes we had. There was a part time dj course there too and we shared classes with them. A friend of mine i doing a part time course there on Tuesdays and he loves it.

Hes doing it to learn how to make tunes digitally, and he earns tons of money so naturally for him it was a straightforward choice to go learn from someone else and pay 1000euro instead of figuring it out himself.

Learning from scratch yourself might be hard going but it possible.Anyone can throw a loop of drums, bass, and synths on a programme like reason, logic or cubase and have the basics of a tune going, it doesnt require much creativity or knowledge, its what you do with your sounds and how you manipulate them that makes any tune stand out.

Obviously whatever programme you are creating tunes on will have a manual (if not look up online). Study the manual in depth, if you dont understand anything then google it or ask on a forum...even youtube has lots of free tutorials...Get your head around the basics, master them , then worry about plug ins and all that.

I think then when you have an understanding of how to use your programme, if anything, you should get some sort of manual on the basics of sound engineering to get your head around things like compressors, noise gates, dynamics, EQ'ing, there is just so much to learn. Enough info on these and most sound engineering are available on wikipedia, so you dont even have to buy a book, although its handy to have a book to pick up for reference. Make your own notes if none of it sinks in.

As for song structure, just train your ear to analyse other tunes and pick out what you think makes them effective then figure out how to do it in your tune.

No rush with anything, results will come and if all that seems to much bother, then maybe a course is for you....check out the place I studied in...
http://www.soundtrainingcentre.com/programmes.php?ID=2&PHPSESSID=c1747019a1b214fea5ecd6962b5d7cdc

its expensive but worth it...if its outside your budget there are a lot of online courses or dvds on anything you want to know, just google them. They are a lot more affordable