what would you feel is the right amount to pay for restoration of a car

stixand7bits

I have just started up on my own restoring cars and after bills and everything came to the price of 22.50euro's an hour labour. For a respary of a car 500 plus paint. what do you think is a good price? not out to make a killing as it is a job i love to do. Any give me cost of how much they paid to get work done on their own cars would be gratefull.:)

BeardyGit

Are you professionally experienced?

Do you have a dry and secure workshop, including storage space while you dismantle and restore vehicles?

Do you have a heated booth for spraying?

Do you have genuine reference customers who have entrusted you with their pride and joy, and been delighted with the results?

Or are you an enthusiast planning on doing this from a barn/shed on a farm for example?

What welding kit and experience do you have?

Are you fully insured, including your premises?

What happens if you stuff up a job on a car?

All the above are fair questions, and need to be answered before you go any further. Everyone here can quote a price they've paid for work, but to be honest, we're not really comparing apples with apples in most cases.

You need to sell your services, so how about answering the above, then people can let you know what they'd be happy paying for what you can offer?

Cheerio,

Gil

galwaytt

+1 on Gil's points, but fwiw, Eur 22.50/hr is cheap, so I'd like to know how you could work down to that and still make a living....

Sids Not

If it helps, i'm being charged 4000 for a bare metal respray......

carchaeologist

Sids Not wrote: »

If it helps, i'm being charged 4000 for a bare metal respray......

On what car,that should be a concours paint job!:)

stixand7bits

I do have a dry and secure workshop, madness to try and do that outside.
Have enough space in the workshop for 8 cars 9 if put one in the spray booth.
Welding is tig and mig and of course need to have woodwork skills for wooden framed cars.
Both me and the premises are insured
there is a contract drawn up between my self and customer so both know where we stand.
I learned my lesson the hard way letting a car go before i got paid and rubber cheque.
I am sure a few of the customers would be happy to give a reference.
Plus i am restoring a car for myself to show my skills
as for stuffing up a car the, car does not leave until customer is happy and paid.


Cheers gil for pointing this out
As for making a living out of it my overheads are low.
4000 for a bare metal respray sounds right, if went sand blast then outside panels by hand.
Or dipped.

junkyard

I hate to pi** on your parade so to speak but I've been restoring classic cars for years now and I can honestly say I've never made money from it, even charging 40 euros an hour. You'll very very rarely get someone to pay for a restoration long term. I deal in cars and have a crash repair business and it's the modern stuff that bales out the old stuff every time as a result I now only do my own stuff now.

dutchcat

junkyard wrote: »

I hate to pi** on your parade so to speak but I've been restoring classic cars for years now and I can honestly say I've never made money from it, even charging 40 euros an hour. You'll very very rarely get someone to pay for a restoration long term. I deal in cars and have a crash repair business and it's the modern stuff that bales out the old stuff every time as a result I now only do my own stuff now.

+1 i was doing the same and never made a penny at it,even getting harder with the EPA ,water based paints etc etc

Sids Not

Would there be enough work to keep you going ??? Its ok saying you love doing it as a hobby/job but when you consider the work in restoring a car it soon becomes a chore (for me anyway) , you cant just leave it for a couple of weeks till you get in the mood again...:rolleyes: Then unless you can weld, paint,sew etc etc you'll be depending on others ,who will always let you down.....;)

gofaster_s13

As the famous expression goes "Never make your hobby your job" all of a sudden you have no hobby:(

Sids Not

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

As the famous expression goes "Never make your hobby your job" all of a sudden you have no hobby:(

....and no job.....:D

shaywest

just delivered a jag mk2 to the customer ,he's delighted with it but the price tag of €3,800 nearly floored him.
replaced two sills a bit of patching here and there and a respray,not concours but perfectly presentable,i was lucky this time that the guy had reasonable expectations and the money to pay me.garantee you that most car enthusiasts will be the exact opposite!
buy the way i hardley broke even when it was all added up in the end.
i wish you well but be carefull who you take cars in from a lot of guys out there are all talk and no diamonds

Dustpuppy

I charge from 10K up for a full restore just only for the work. Parts will be charged extra. I have enough work for the next 6 month. The cars i do are realy rare. At the moment a Porsche 911 Carrera RS and a 1973 Volkswagen Squareback with modifications. A lot of people saying, that it is very expensive, but i know how much work it is. I have to pay my garage, tax, esb, and so on for the 3-6 month i need.
Here u can have a look http://dustpuppy.250x.com/

carchaeologist

Dustpuppy wrote: »

I charge from 10K up for a full restore just only for the work. Parts will be charged extra. I have enough work for the next 6 month. The cars i do are realy rare. At the moment a Porsche 911 Carrera RS and a 1973 Volkswagen Squareback with modifications. A lot of people saying, that it is very expensive, but i know how much work it is. I have to pay my garage, tax, esb, and so on for the 3-6 month i need.
Here u can have a look http://dustpuppy.250x.com/

Just went to that link,did you do the work on this chassis?

It looks like a great job,but you are losing the original floorpan pattern,which will look strange when finished,or is that what the customer wants?I dont mean to sound negative,but i like things to be original if possible.I can see how things get very expensive though,im at my beetle at the minute,and a semi stripdown has taken nearly two days to get everything taken apart without breaking stuff,i havnt even started cutting out rust yet!!



I think to go to this amount of work is amazing,very impressive

Kevin_Herron

The repair sections for the floors probably arent available? I dont see why you'd make your own if they were.

Abelloid

Kevin_Herron wrote: »

The repair sections for the floors probably arent available? I dont see why you'd make your own if they were.

http://www.typethreedetectives.com/

They're £195 each.

Sids Not

Id imagine the sheet of steel cost a lot less.....;)

carchaeologist

Sids Not wrote: »

Id imagine the sheet of steel cost a lot less.....;)

Fair enough that might be true,but it looks wrong IMO without having the right pressings,but thats just my opinion!
Maybe the owner wanted the flat floor look,he did say it was a modified car.

Sids Not

Think you missed my sarcastic wink..;)...If it was me paying up to 10k for a resto i'd insist on the panels being replaced like for like....;);)

carchaeologist

Sids Not wrote: »

Think you missed my sarcastic wink..;)...If it was me paying up to 10k for a resto i'd insist on the panels being replaced like for like....;);)

Ha,oops!!Get ya now!:pFor 10K id want genuine NOS VW panels fitted!!

Dustpuppy

I covered the pans, because they where thin like paper and full of little holes. And i did it this way, because the car will be raised from 54BHp to over 250BHp. The floor is a bit more heavy, but it is also extra strong.

Here's a little list of work i do on a full restore:
Full strip down
All parts sand blasted or hand cleaned including the body
All metal sheets and panels welded in, not patched over holes
As possible i use new repair panels
Parts which i can't get, i will copy from the original
All cables new
Instruments cleaned and if wanted set to zero
All pipes new
All screws new
All rubbers new
Full respray

The car is absolutely rust free after all

And so on. It take a minimum time of 3 month to do a full restore. If u ever seen Overhauling, then u know how much work it is. They have 30 people, working 12 or more hours a day, over 7 days (20x12x7=1680 hours). I don't have 20 people, only up to 3 so it takes a bit more time :-)
With 1680 hours and 10K it's only 6 euro per hour. It's ok, if i charge parts extra, i think.

PaulK_CCI

Dustpuppy wrote: »

I covered the pans, because they where thin like paper and full of little holes. And i did it this way, because the car will be raised from 54BHp to over 250BHp. The floor is a bit more heavy, but it is also extra strong.

Ok, but if strenghtening was a reason for using the sheet instead of putting in a proper factory panel, why only do just one side??
.... to be honest, if this was my car, I would not be pleased at all... either do both sides so that they look the same, or use a proper replacement panel...

I mean, if this much power goes into the car, weight distribution is critical too: as this is the driver's side, which is now more than likely heavier than the passenger's side, plus the driver also sitting there, it will create an uneven weight distribution, and with 250bhp pushing you against a tight corner, you sort of don't want any unexpected surprises...

By the way, tell me more about the 73 RS? I know most of the original RS's floating around Ireland, so I am always quite curious to learn of any others around. Is it a Touring, lhd, rhd? Matching number engine? What needs to be done to it?

junkyard

Dustpuppy wrote: »

I covered the pans, because they where thin like paper and full of little holes. And i did it this way, because the car will be raised from 54BHp to over 250BHp. The floor is a bit more heavy, but it is also extra strong.

Here's a little list of work i do on a full restore:
Full strip down
All parts sand blasted or hand cleaned including the body
All metal sheets and panels welded in, not patched over holes
As possible i use new repair panels
Parts which i can't get, i will copy from the original
All cables new
Instruments cleaned and if wanted set to zero
All pipes new
All screws new
All rubbers new
Full respray

The car is absolutely rust free after all

And so on. It take a minimum time of 3 month to do a full restore. If u ever seen Overhauling, then u know how much work it is. They have 30 people, working 12 or more hours a day, over 7 days (20x12x7=1680 hours). I don't have 20 people, only up to 3 so it takes a bit more time :-)
With 1680 hours and 10K it's only 6 euro per hour. It's ok, if i charge parts extra, i think.

6 euros an hour? Are you serious? Is that what you charge?

maidhc

junkyard wrote: »

6 euros an hour? Are you serious? Is that what you charge?

When I was in college (which isn't long ago!) I tried doing up a few tractors and selling them. Even then it didn't pay. It was easier to be broke!

Have you any more plans for an "open day"?

shaywest

Dustpuppy wrote: »

I covered the pans, because they where thin like paper and full of little holes. And i did it this way, because the car will be raised from 54BHp to over 250BHp. The floor is a bit more heavy, but it is also extra strong.

Here's a little list of work i do on a full restore:
Full strip down
All parts sand blasted or hand cleaned including the body
All metal sheets and panels welded in, not patched over holes
As possible i use new repair panels
Parts which i can't get, i will copy from the original
All cables new
Instruments cleaned and if wanted set to zero
All pipes new
All screws new
All rubbers new
Full respray

The car is absolutely rust free after all

And so on. It take a minimum time of 3 month to do a full restore. If u ever seen Overhauling, then u know how much work it is. They have 30 people, working 12 or more hours a day, over 7 days (20x12x7=1680 hours). I don't have 20 people, only up to 3 so it takes a bit more time :-)
With 1680 hours and 10K it's only 6 euro per hour. It's ok, if i charge parts extra, i think.

don't think zeroing clocks is a good idea, even on a classic

carchaeologist

shaywest wrote: »

don't think zeroing clocks is a good idea, even on a classic

I would only do this if the car was totally rebuilt,engine and all,or changed to something that it wasnt originally(new engine and transmission etc).

carchaeologist

Dustpuppy wrote: »

I covered the pans, because they where thin like paper and full of little holes.quote]
Not wishing to demean your work,but when you say cover the floors,is that weld new metal over old,or cut out the old rusty pans then weld in the new metal?If you dont chop out the rusty steel would that not create a rust trap between the two layers sandwitched together?

shaywest

glad to hear it .
you could find your self making licence plates instead of restoring cars

Dustpuppy

PaulK_CCI wrote:

Ok, but if strenghtening was a reason for using the sheet instead of putting in a proper factory panel, why only do just one side??

It's done on both sides and on top and bottom.

junkyard wrote:

6 euros an hour? Are you serious? Is that what you charge?

No, i charge much more per hour, but u can't price a full restore by hour, or would u pay, if i tell u, that it takes 1000 hours each for 30 or 40 euro?

carchaeologist wrote:

Not wishing to demean your work,but when you say cover the floors,is that weld new metal over old,or cut out the old rusty pans then weld in the new metal?If you dont chop out the rusty steel would that not create a rust trap between the two layers sandwitched together?

All unsave metal was cut out. The chassis was fully sand blasted and complete rust free before i started.

maidhc wrote:

Have you any more plans for an "open day"?

No time, but everbody can feel free to come around and have a look.

Abelloid

From those pics it does look like the original floor is still there - the grid of plug welds?

mustang68

and this Ladies and Gentlemen is the problem with restoring Classic Cars.

Seems that no one ever makes real money off it as a business (six euro an hour?!), and because of the critical nature of the customers I'd say its a hard business to be well respected in.

Dustpuppy

dutchcat wrote: »

if i went to buy that variant fully restored ,I would leave it there with that floor seems a shame for the sake of a few hundred quid

And i think it is a shame that some people open the mouth without reading first and using the brain.
This car will get an engine with 5 times power of the original one. From 54BHP to over 250BHP. From 85NM to 270NM. 110Kg more weight behind the back axle. I want to see what happens, if you push the trottle down once with original floor pans.

And it is not a few hundred quid. The time to make this floor cost much more, then just putting original floors in.

Another thing i want to know is, if you also will say that all custom designers, like Chip Foose, Boyd Codington, or others, who make Hot Rods from classic cars, much older and much more rare then a Variant, has to be shamed about the work they do?


It's your opinion, if you will not drive this car, but next time use words, that will not blame others, please.

Sids Not

Sorry mate but with the pictures i've seen of your work i think you should'nt compare yourself to Foose and Co.
Its probably acceptable to your customer but if it was me i would'nt be happy..
I would insist on the proper floor pan ,and not flat sheet steel with little strength (hence the ribbing on the stock floor)..AND a proper tube/box frame to handle all that extra HP...
The flat floor looks like it will sound like a bass drum and it might even flex as it doesnt look like its supported .and god forbid any water gets into the "sandwich"..am i right...?
Dont get me wrong, your customer might be well chuffed and thats all you need to worry about....
Suffice to say he might be a member of this forum though..;)

Dustpuppy

I don't want to compare my self with the big ones. I only want to say, that he never would say to someone like Foose and CO. that they have to be shamed, because they customizing classic cars.

Sids Not

Not really getting what you mean.......who has mentioned customising cars.....:rolleyes:
I for one think its brilliant to see someone doing this in this country, but it needs to be done well, not always to perfection, but to a good standard...;)

PanhardPL

Sids Not wrote: »

Not really getting what you mean.......who has mentioned customising cars.....:rolleyes:
I for one think its brilliant to see someone doing this in this country, but it needs to be done well, not always to perfection, but to a good standard...;)

Take a look at some of the restoration work that has already been done, and you will see some real workmanship. Many of his completed works are to be found in www.classiccar.ie.

stixand7bits

just to say to those who said they been charging 30euro+
i am doing it at my price and making a living