Q about roundabouts

darling.x

my old driving instructor used the clock system for dealing with roundabouts. My newer driving instructor uses the exits system. So whats the best method for dealing with roundabouts. Whats a tester looking for or would it matter which method you'd use in a test. I'm confident on what lane to approach in and where to signal with the two methods.

challengemaster

I have no idea what you're on about. What have clocks got to do with roundabouts?

DonalN

please explain these 2 methods ...

Kershaw.D

:eek:Not a clue what your talking about could you please explain

darling.x

The clock system: any exits from 6 to 12 - approach in the left lane (or middle lane if there is 1 for going stragiht ahead). Any exits from 12 to 6, approach in the right hand lane.

su_dios

challengemaster wrote: »

I have no idea what you're on about. What have clocks got to do with roundabouts?

Its quite obvious he means first exit would be 9 o'clock, straight ahead 12 o'clock etc.

TBH calling the exits as they are is a better way and would be less confusing. The clock system is handy for starting out I suppose. Get your new instructor to run with the system you prefer.

darling.x

The exit system:
1st exit. Approach in the left lane, and signal left.
2nd exit: approach in the left lane (or middle lane if there is 1). Signal left as you pass the exit before the 1 you want to take.
3rd or more exits: approach in the right lane, signal right. Signal left as you pass the exit before the exit you want to take.

Wishbone Ash

darling.x wrote: »

The exit system:
1st exit. Approach in the left lane, and signal left.
2nd exit: approach in the left lane (or middle lane if there is 1). Signal left as you pass the exit before the 1 you want to take.
3rd or more exits: approach in the right lane, signal right. Signal left as you pass the exit before the exit you want to take.

......unless signage/road markings indicate otherwise.

driverite

They are both correct, The clock system is the easiest way to teach and explain to a new driver, but for your test,The tester will tell you take for example the 4th exit the road to the right

J_R

darling.x wrote: »

The exit system:
1st exit. Approach in the left lane, and signal left.
2nd exit: approach in the left lane (or middle lane if there is 1). Signal left as you pass the exit before the 1 you want to take.
3rd or more exits: approach in the right lane, signal right. Signal left as you pass the exit before the exit you want to take.

There is a roundabout at the Retail Park on approach to Sligo. It has just three exits.

1st exit at 12 0'clock
2nd exit at 3 0'clock
(3rd exit 6 0'clock)

So ask your new instructor how to explain how you would negotiate same using his system.

Also "or middle lane if there is 1" sounds very suspect. You only use "middle" lane for straight ahead if left lane is blocked

My advice return to your 1st instructor. At least he understood roundabouts.

Wishbone Ash

J_R wrote: »

Also "or middle lane if there is 1" sounds very suspect. You only use "middle" lane for straight ahead if left lane is blocked

I think the OP is referring to the many roundabouts in the Dublin area where the left approach lane is dedicated to first exit only. In those cases, a driver taking the second exit is obliged to approach in the centre lane.

This centre lane usually evolves into the left after the first exit (as the original dedicated first exit left lane discontinues).

The annoying thing about some of those roundabouts is that they only have road surface markings which, when there is heavy traffic, can be difficult to see in advance for those unfamiliar with the area.

driverite

JR i think your missing the point,
we could discuss every single rounabout from Dublin to Sligo, and of course there are exceptions to the rule. There is a rounabout on the southern cross in Bray, Ist exit at 9, 2nd at 12 3rd at 3. But the left lane is for left only so you have to be in the right lane to take the 2nd exit at 12o'clock.

When Testing the tester will say 1st, 2nd or 3rd exit etc. Most of the guys who i know will also say "take the 3rd exit road to the right, following the dublin road".

As a learning tool i think the clock system is cuite good,

J_R

driverite wrote: »

JR i think your missing the point,
,

I do not think so.

The only way to teach the correct way to negotiate ALL roundabouts is by using the clock face. Using numbers, when that number can be anywhere on the circumference of the circle can lead to confusion.

It is quite simple

All exits before or at 12 0'clock keep left,
All exits after 12 0'clock keep right

That covers all basic roundabouts. Otherwise, road markings and signs dictate.

A proper driving instructor should just not teach people how to negotiate the roundabouts on the test route or the phraseology the test examiner will use, but how to deal with all roundabouts they are ever likely to meet in a lifetime of driving.

After a lesson with a proper instructor a pupil should not be confused in any way whatsoever and should fully uinderstand how to approach and negotiate all roundabouts.

Passing the test is then very simple.

challengemaster

That 'clock system' crap just confused the hell out of me. And you're saying its easiest?!

How hard is it to remember - first 2 turns, left lane, Any others, right lane unless otherwise directed.. I do believe its in the rules of the road too.. It's not exactly rocket science.

Why involve clocks and make things more complicated... If I had to think of a clock everytime I came to a roundabout (especially in this country, where the county council seem to decide to put 1 every 100m for no reason) I'd more than likely have crashed by now, or be completly insane..

I had lessons with a proper instructor, I was in no way confused about how to approach any roundabout as he told me the 'exits system' as you are calling it. Not.Rocket.Science.

J_R

challengemaster wrote: »

That 'clock system' crap just confused the hell out of me. And you're saying its easiest?!

How hard is it to remember - first 2 turns, left lane, Any others, right lane unless otherwise directed.. I do believe its in the rules of the road too.. It's not exactly rocket science.

Why involve clocks and make things more complicated... If I had to think of a clock everytime I came to a roundabout (especially in this country, where the county council seem to decide to put 1 every 100m for no reason) I'd more than likely have crashed by now, or be completly insane..

I had lessons with a proper instructor, I was in no way confused about how to approach any roundabout as he told me the 'exits system' as you are calling it. Not.Rocket.Science.

No it is not. The only exit that is numbered in the Rules of the Road is the First exit. All other exits are designated by using the words "Straight Ahead" or "later". The 2nd exit is not mentioned

Obviously the roundabouts the OP and yourself encountered on your lessons and test were ones where the 2nd exit was before or at 12 0'clock.

If the 2nd exit was to the right of straight ahead your first 2 turns, left lane would be wrong.

Because it is the simplest way, the test examiners use the Clock method to help them mark as

Position at Roundabouts

Where an applicant intends to take any exit in the 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock position, subject to road markings, the approach should normally be in the left-hand lane.

The approach should normally be in the right-hand lane for any exit after the 12 o'clock position, or a fault may be recorded for 'Position at Roundabouts'.

From Driving Test Marking Guidelines

driverite

A proper driving instructor should just not teach people how to negotiate the roundabouts on the test route or the phraseology the test examiner will use, but how to deal with all roundabouts they are ever likely to meet in a lifetime of driving.

JR What you are talking about are two different things. About what actually happens and what should happen.

Are you really saying that an instructor should not teach there pupils what or how an examiner is going to instruct them. That's nuts.

If you were teaching a pupil to drive then they go in for a test and not understand what the tester mean when he instructs to do things For example like roundabouts then he is not doing this job properly.

I get people in to me who are told by your "proper instructors that they cant cross there hands on a test when turning that's it is a fault which is wrong. You can cross your hands, Another example is having

to hold the wheel 10 to 2, That is you don't hold it that way it is a fault which is also wrong, you can hold what ever way you want once you have 2 hands on the wheel,

Another is dead steering, used to be a fault but not anymore.

Should and what they do are two different things

javaboy

driverite wrote: »

Another is dead steering, used to be a fault but not anymore.

Will dry/dead steering not get you a fault in your turnabout though? That's where people are most likely to do it too.

driverite

Nope you wont get a mark on the turnabout if you do it,

Alanstrainor

javaboy wrote: »

Will dry/dead steering not get you a fault in your turnabout though? That's where people are most likely to do it too.

There's no longer a fault for dry/dead steering as said. But it's not the best practice, as it puts extra strain on the steering column and causes undue wear on the front tires.

javaboy

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There's no longer a fault for dry/dead steering as said. But it's not the best practice, as it puts extra strain on the steering column and causes undue wear on the front tires.

There's also the fact that you don't necessarily know what direction you're pointing. My instructor told me that was the primary reason it was frowned upon for test purposes rather than thread wear.

driverite

I'm not saying if its right or wrong to do.

The question was is it a fault? and the answer was no its not a fault.

I'm not getting the point about not knowing the direction java

javaboy

driverite wrote: »

I'm not saying if its right or wrong to do.

The question was is it a fault? and the answer was no its not a fault.

Yeah I'm not arguing on that one. I'll take your word for it.

I'm not getting the point about not knowing the direction java

Basically if you turn the wheel while the car is motionless, you can't be 100% sure of what exact direction you're pointing in. Personally I don't think it would be much of an issue for most people. More a case of being considered bad practice.

J_R

driverite wrote: »

A proper driving instructor should just not teach people how to negotiate the roundabouts on the test route or the phraseology the test examiner will use, but how to deal with all roundabouts they are ever likely to meet in a lifetime of driving.

JR What you are talking about are two different things. About what actually happens and what should happen.

Are you really saying that an instructor should not teach there pupils what or how an examiner is going to instruct them. That's nuts.

If you were teaching a pupil to drive then they go in for a test and not understand what the tester mean when he instructs to do things For example like roundabouts then he is not doing this job properly.

I get people in to me who are told by your "proper instructors that they cant cross there hands on a test when turning that's it is a fault which is wrong. You can cross your hands,

What I said is in RED

A good driving instructor simply teaches a person to drive. Pupil then applies for the test and a Government appointed examiner checks to see what kind of job they have done.

In the lessons a proper driving instructor will have been using the same terminology and phraseology the examiner will also use, so there is no need to instruct one way then say however the examiner will use a different format. Especially relating to roundabouts.

Proper instructors and examiners speak the same language.

Opting out from this discussion