Dunne should move to featherweight

walshb

What has Duddy got to do with it?
Bringing in Duddy to deflect from your screw up!
I don't think he is going to win a world title either; but he
is a better PRO.

Now, let's dissect your waffle!

Dunne is NOT even close to the top and you are using him
with examples of PBF and Hatton. THOSE GUYS MADE IT AND
ARE ENTITLED TO 'DODGE' HERE AND THERE.

PBF won titles in multiple weights and was the best between 130-147 and you go and mention his dodging at 147 to back up your waffle:rolleyes:

You are not a fan of Dunne, you are obsessed.

Paul Cowzer is a fan, as he can admire whilst refusing to be blinded.

PBF and those beat the champs, not the 'right opponent'

Seriously, you should bow out now, it's getting seriously comical!

And alanceltic is the ONLY 1 who will agree with you in this
silly debacle!

PBF, Lewis and Hatton all had to fight the 'right opponent'...
Yeah, that makes real sense:rolleyes:

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

What has Duddy got to do with it?
Bringing in Duddy to deflect from your screw up!
I don't think he is going to win a world title either; but he
is a better PRO.

Now, let's dissect your waffle!

Dunne is NOT even close to the top and you are using him
with examples of PBF and Hatton. THOSE GUYS MADE IT AND
ARE ENTITLED TO 'DODGE' HERE AND THERE.

PBF won titles in multiple weights and was the best between 130-147 and you go and mention his dodging at 147 to back up your waffle:rolleyes:

You are not a fan of Dunne, you are obsessed.

Paul Cowzer is a fan, as he can admire whilst refusing to be blinded.

PBF and those beat the champs, not the 'right opponent'

Seriously, you should bow out now, it's getting seriously comical!

And alanceltic is the ONLY 1 who will agree with you in this
silly debacle!

PBF, Lewis and Hatton all had to fight the 'right opponent'...
Yeah, that makes real sense:rolleyes:

You have the mental capacity of a two year old. I said they where accused, I'll type it again so you have time to process it ACCUSED of taking on the the right opponents for what reason.

I am not comparing Dunne to these guys. I originally said that Dunne could win a title against the correct opponent. You said that idea was silly and replied as if this was a foreign concept in the game.

I replied with greats of the game who have also been accused of this not to compare them with Dunne but to highlight the fact that this happens in boxing.

walshb

Calm down T.K.O

You saying that Dunne could win a world title against the 'right opponent' is perfectly correct. It's just that the concept is silly and really shows that Dunne is not up to it. If he has to rely on the 'right opponent,' that shows his serious limitations. Calm down mate!

On serious note, the champ IMO would have to be very limited and Molitor is being hailed in Canada as quite quite good. He's unbeaten and polished and skilled. He has been named by some her as a potential win for Dunne. I say NO WAY from the bouts I have seen.

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

Calm down T.K.O

You saying that Dunne could win a world title against the 'right opponent' is perfectly correct. It's just that the concept is silly and really shows that Dunne is not up to it. If he has to rely on the 'right opponent,' that shows his serious limitations. Calm down mate!

Dude I never said Dunne was a world beater - I've said from the start the guys at the top of his division are on a different planet to Dunne.

The guy has a goal of winning a world title and I think he COULD possibly achieve that. If I was him or part of his team this would be the road I would go down.

I gotta disagree that the concept is silly - Lots of guys take that path. They all can not be a Chavez or a Barerra.

walshb

Mate, no harm done. We both can get a little too passionate fro time to time.
Let's enjoy the wait and I know you won't believe me, but I cheer for Dunne every time. I just know in my heart he hasn't got it and never will.

Paul, spot on!
I'm including myself as GUILTY by the way!

cowzerp

Im not a MOD but genuinely lads, leave off the name calling and insults, its ridiculus, opinions are like arssholes, everyone has 1.

just because someone disagree's with you is not reason to get all shiitty, bren does not like dunne's boxing, he gives his opinion on why, you give your opinion on why you do, end of.

its not like as if he does not give reasons like some people in relation to boxers..

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

Mate, no harm done. We both can get a little too passionate fro time to time.
Let's enjoy the wait and I know you won't believe me, but I cheer for Dunne every time. I just know in my heart he hasn't got it and never will.

Paul, spot on!
I'm including myself as GUILTY by the way!

I'm a reasonable guy I can accept that.

13663046

Walsh to say Dunne has no chance of winning any title against any opponent is a bit unfair, and frankly not a very intelligent comment especially from anyone who knows anything about boxing. In boxing anything is possible, who would have believed Douglas beating Tyson, rahman beating Lewis and maybe recently Pacman beating de la hoya, (although you probably predicted all these fights as you are an expert). I am not saying Dunne has the same odds as Douglas v tyson of winning a world title, as I do think he is more than capable of winning a title.

As for moving up a weight I still haven’t made up my mind, but it is definitely a viable option.

Walsh it is clear you see Bernard as a poor fighter, which is fine, but is kind of blind as you have dismissed a lot of his achievements. I know your feed up talking about Dunne and you "will say it no more", but let the others guy talk about Dunne instead of trying to force your opinion on them. I know this sounds rude but I don’t mean to be, it looks like you are trying to pollute people with made up information on Dunne and show no proof, and have contradicted yourself so many times in this topic.

For the whole argument on Dunne and Leonard did he or didn’t he get kicked out I assure you he didn’t. Type in google “Sugar Ray backs 'Ben' Dunne”. I remember Leonard being in Dublin recently backing Dunne, which doesn’t sound like someone who left under bad terms. As for Dunne not getting snapped up in the US this is an easy one, he was never going to get as much money there than if he fought here where everyone knows him and he will sell out every time, case closed.

walshb

13663046 wrote: »

Walsh to say Dunne has no chance of winning any title against any opponent is a bit unfair, and frankly not a very intelligent comment especially from anyone who knows anything about boxing. In boxing anything is possible, who would have believed Douglas beating Tyson, rahman beating Lewis and maybe recently Pacman beating de la hoya, (although you probably predicted all these fights as you are an expert). I am not saying Dunne has the same odds as Douglas v tyson of winning a world title, as I do think he is more than capable of winning a title.

As for moving up a weight I still haven’t made up my mind, but it is definitely a viable option.

Walsh it is clear you see Bernard as a poor fighter, which is fine, but is kind of blind as you have dismissed a lot of his achievements. I know your feed up talking about Dunne and you "will say it no more", but let the others guy talk about Dunne instead of trying to force your opinion on them. I know this sounds rude but I don’t mean to be, it looks like you are trying to pollute people with made up information on Dunne and show no proof, and have contradicted yourself so many times in this topic.

For the whole argument on Dunne and Leonard did he or didn’t he get kicked out I assure you he didn’t. Type in google “Sugar Ray backs 'Ben' Dunne”. I remember Leonard being in Dublin recently backing Dunne, which doesn’t sound like someone who left under bad terms. As for Dunne not getting snapped up in the US this is an easy one, he was never going to get as much money there than if he fought here where everyone knows him and he will sell out every time, case closed.

Not intelligent?
Well, if he wins a legitimate world title or even beats a TOP 10 fighter then maybe I'll take that comment a little more
serious.So far he has done NOTHING on the world scene.
So, so far I haven't said anything untrue or unintelligent.
Me thinking he's not world beater by any stretch is
my opinion and to date it has been valid!

What he did achieve is a matter for debate. I rate it
decent, but still well below world class.

As for Ray Leonard the arse licker. He is renound for
buttering up and hyping and speaking crap

Johner

First things first I cheer for Dunne as much as the next Irish bloke but come on I cant believe most of you's believe Dunne is even near World level. His level is European. He dosent have the chin or the power to trouble any one. Lets see him get near the European title first which I dont believe he will even get back.

13663046

walshb wrote: »

Not intelligent?
So, so far I haven't said anything untrue or unintelligent.

As for Ray Leonard the arse licker. He is renound for
buttering up and hyping and speaking crap

So you didnt say bernard dunne was chased from the wild card gym for being rubbish? when all the facts say otherwise.

Ray Leonard is an arse licker? lol where do you get this stuff?

I think Dunne's next fight is for a world title, Im not saying he is a world dominator, I do fancy for a world title. Only time will tell, Go on Dunne!!!

walshb

13663046 wrote: »

So you didnt say bernard dunne was chased from the wild card gym for being rubbish? when all the facts say otherwise.

Ray Leonard is an arse licker? lol where do you get this stuff?

I think Dunne's next fight is for a world title, Im not saying he is a world dominator, I do fancy for a world title. Only time will tell, Go on Dunne!!!

Ray Leonard for many years has always hyped any fighter he has ever been asked about; he can never simply be honest, and every fighter to him is great. I have heard him so much thru the years, and especially on HBO.

Anyway, I didn't ever say Bernad was run out of the wild card gym.
I said I heard rumours that he was, and I also said it was my
belief that Bernard simply wasn't excelling in the States and was
most likely 'let go,' despite what both camps said about the matter.

So, read up first before making such claims!

13663046

walshb wrote: »

Shane, he was 'let go' in America because he wasn't up to it. He came back to Ireland because the Americans knew he wasn't going anywhere on the world stage.

Waow you have a comeback for everything, I did read up. there it is in your own words, laying this as factual information. You just arent making any sense, Sugar Ray Leonard thinks Dunne is crap? but yet he goes round saying he is an excellent fighter, that doesn't sound right.

It sounds like I have it out for you walsh, but I dont lol. I just want to correct some of your statements, can you leave it now and not get the last word in on how I am wrong lol.

Big Ears

13663046 wrote: »

Waow you have a comeback for everything, I did read up. there it is in your own words, laying this as factual information. You just arent making any sense, Sugar Ray Leonard thinks Dunne is crap? but yet he goes round saying he is an excellent fighter, that doesn't sound right.

It sounds like I have it out for you walsh, but I dont lol. I just want to correct some of your statements, can you leave it now and not get the last word in on how I am wrong lol.

Whether a fighter is great or not Ray Leonard will tell you he is, Leonard is a yes man. Always has been, he plays to a role which boosts his career.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

Whether a fighter is great or not Ray Leonard will tell you he is, Leonard is a yes man. Always has been, he plays to a role which boosts his career.

Big Ears, thank you, thank you, thank you.

The guy is unreal, everyone he has ever been asked about is great.
He can never be honest!

13663046, have you a name?

Anyway, it is MY belief that Dunne didn't cut it in the States and WAS
let go. We may never find out the real reason and probably Dunne and Ray's team are the only people who know the real reason. It's just a belief of mine; apologies for passing it off as fact. I didn't think I did to be honest

sston

walshb wrote: »

Big Ears, thank you, thank you, thank you.

The guy is unreal, everyone he has ever been asked about is great.
He can never be honest!

13663046, have you a name?

Anyway, it is MY belief that Dunne didn't cut it in the States and WAS
let go. We may never find out the real reason and probably Dunne and Ray's team are the only people who know the real reason. It's just a belief of mine; apologies for passing it off as fact. I didn't think I did to be honest

The real reason was that Sugar Ray Leonard's promotional firm fell apart due to a disagreement he had with his partner in that business (a rich, Norwegian guy if I remember correctly, he put up the cash and Leonard was the public face of the company).

Anyway they fell out over the Contender series that Sugar Ray was starting to get involved in at that point and the company was wound up with all the fighters they had under promotional contract being made free agents.

Hard to remember all the fighters they had but I think one of them was Juan Carlos Gomez, the Cuban heavyweight who's fighting Vitali Klitschko next. Joe Mesi was another although I think even by the time the company finished up he had already left after falling out with Leonard.

My guess is Dunne could have got another decent contract out there with one of the other promoters, particularly on the east coast where he could have done a "Duddy" in New York but he was homesick and at the stage in his career where he could come home and make a name for himself here.

T-K-O

sston wrote: »

The real reason was that Sugar Ray Leonard's promotional firm fell apart due to a disagreement he had with his partner in that business (a rich, Norwegian guy if I remember correctly, he put up the cash and Leonard was the public face of the company).

Anyway they fell out over the Contender series that Sugar Ray was starting to get involved in at that point and the company was wound up with all the fighters they had under promotional contract being made free agents.

Hard to remember all the fighters they had but I think one of them was Juan Carlos Gomez, the Cuban heavyweight who's fighting Vitali Klitschko next. Joe Mesi was another although I think even by the time the company finished up he had already left after falling out with Leonard.

My guess is Dunne could have got another decent contract out there with one of the other promoters, particularly on the east coast where he could have done a "Duddy" in New York but he was homesick and at the stage in his career where he could come home and make a name for himself here.

More likely and believable story.....

It is MY belief that Dunne schooled Walsh as an amateur and that was the spawn of his nemesis. It is also MY belief that walsh was a MOD at this huge international boxing site but he was sent packing when they found out how badly Dunne schooled him in the summer of 69.

walshb

You have some strange beliefs there mate!:D

Anyway, anyone know or care to predict the next fight on
Dunne's agenda?

I would say another bum in maybe April, and then, I don't know.

Does it really look likely that he will fight for a world title
by Sept 2009?

Hangballlouie

walshb wrote: »

You have some strange beliefs there mate!:D

Anyway, anyone know or care to predict the next fight on
Dunne's agenda?

I would say another bum in maybe April, and then, I don't know.

Does it really look likely that he will fight for a world title
by Sept 2009?

I think he will get a title shot this year Walsh but has no chance imo of beating any of the champions at either Super-bantam or featherweight.

I love seen Irish boxers do well and have watched Bernard since his amateur days so as much as I want him to win, it ain't gonna happen.

One thing I will say is that I feel his management don't give two f**ks about him.
Thats the impression I got when watching that documentary over the christmas.
As soon as he lost, his manager was talking about other boxers, like Lee, Macklin etc.
Maybe my disike for his manager is clouding my judgement?

walshb

I really would rather see him in with a fairly decent and ranked 122 ln fighter.
To date, that hasn't happened, career 1 or 2. At least then we can say if he would stand any chance at a tilte. As it stands, he has NO chance of beating any of them; I just hope when or if he gets the shot, he manages to give a half decent account of himself.

joepenguin

walshb wrote: »

I really would rather see him in with a fairly decent and ranked 122 ln fighter.

+1

The wbc have made Vasquez their champion emeritus.

For the benefit of those not familiar with this term it basically means Vasquez is the champ but as he is in no position to defend it, 2 others fight for the title and Vasquez is granted an immediate shot at the title as soon as he is back in action

Recently Toshiaki Nishioka beat Genaro Garcia fought for the belt. He was already the interim champion (and for all intents and purposes still is unless Vasquez wants Marquez immediately or is moving to featherweight) but officially he is the wbc world champ proper.

So we have another super bantamweight world champ in Nishioka. see his record here: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14023&cat=boxer won 33 (KO 20) + lost 4 (KO 1) + drawn 3 ko 50%

IMO this has to be the best shot for a world title. Vasquez is out of the picture anyway and that leaves cabellero and juanma lopez at super bantam. Plus he doesnt have to move up in weight.

It is time for Dunne to face a quality 122 opponent. His team should see whats the best fight that would put him in line for Nishioka. He has fought outside of japan 3-4 times and id imagine Dunne could sell out the point facing this guy. Or at least surpass what would have sold out the old point which was jammed for the pickering fight.

The question is, if he isnt granted a shot without one more fight (and i reckon dunnes win over faccio will just about put him in a position to be a voluntary) who does he fight in the meantime while pushing himself up the rankings.

T-K-O

hangballlouie wrote: »

I think he will get a title shot this year Walsh but has no chance imo of beating any of the champions at either Super-bantam or featherweight.

I love seen Irish boxers do well and have watched Bernard since his amateur days so as much as I want him to win, it ain't gonna happen.

One thing I will say is that I feel his management don't give two f**ks about him.
Thats the impression I got when watching that documentary over the christmas.
As soon as he lost, his manager was talking about other boxers, like Lee, Macklin etc.
Maybe my disike for his manager is clouding my judgement?

I only caught the last 20 mins of that doc, but I have always felt that way about Dunnes entire team - bunch of amateurs...


Peters "Bernard was my mona lisa" translation "Bernard was my cash cow"

walshb

joepenguin wrote: »

+1


The question is, if he isnt granted a shot without one more fight (and i reckon dunnes win over faccio will just about put him in a position to be a voluntary) who does he fight in the meantime while pushing himself up the rankings.

And we all know what the term voluntary means. Dunne is the voluntary challenger, or to the champs team, a bum! That's the way the fight game goes.

Dunne's team are right to try get the title shot next if it's a big money earner; because Dunne is fast runing out of time and there are only so many
tomato cans one can fight, before even the suckers become suspicious.

I would like to see a top ten opponent first; but if I were Dunne's manager, a world title, because he is not going to beat either (top ten or world champ).

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

And we all know what the term voluntary means. Dunne is the voluntary challenger, or to the champs team, a bum! That's the way the fight game goes.

Dunne's team are right to try get the title shot next if it's a big money earner; because Dunne is fast runing out of time and there are only so many
tomato cans one can fight, before even the suckers become suspicious.

I would like to see a top ten opponent first; but if I were Dunne's manager, a world title, because he is not going to beat either (top ten or world champ).

Again you paint the picture completely incorrectly, is David Haye a bum he is a voluntary..

walshb

Haye is not a bum; but generaly speaking, the voluntary challenger is usually below par or not rated all that high, and in Dunne's case; yes he would be considered a bum, as he has done nothing on the world scene at all.
Haye was the undisputed Cruiser champ; a little difference wouldn't you agree?:rolleyes:

Again, you keep bringing in other names. I concede; there are others too who are bums and who are getting shots. I get that, ok? But Haye was a bad example you gave.

Dunne is NOT ranked at all by ANY of the major bodies and it's not lke he's even a former champ or a champ moving up in weight etc. He has no bargaining
power whatsoever. Haye has serious bargaining power, a resume and world championship credentials. This is all too obvious, at least for me!

And Rated number 5 by the WBC and number 2 by the lower rated WBO.

I guess my use of the word 'bum' regarding Dunne is offending you.
Ok, I take it back; let's say 'less worthy.'

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Haye is not a bum; but generaly speaking, the voluntary challenger is usually below par or not rated all that high, and in Dunne's case; yes he would be considered a bum, as he has done nothing on the world scene at all.

Bren thats not fair, if your right and Dunne is not world class that does not make him a bum, a bum loses to journeymen and on a regular basis too.

walshb wrote: »

I guess my use of the word 'bum' regarding Dunne is offending you.
Ok, I take it back; let's say 'less worthy.'

Less worthy is a fair term,same applies to Haye-thats why they are not getting it due to rankings but this is nothing new or unusual, and many unranked fighters have won titles and defended it so its not really a big issue, he's coming to or past peak so now is the time to give him a go, its now or never as Elvis would of said!

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Bren thats not fair, if your right and Dunne is not world class that does not make him a bum, a bum loses to journeymen and on a regular basis too.



Less worthy is a fair term,same applies to Haye-thats why they are not getting it due to rankings but this is nothing new or unusual, and many unranked fighters have won titles and defended it so its not really a big issue, he's coming to or past peak so now is the time to give him a go, its now or never as Elvis would of said!

Maybe the word is too strong a term; but different folks will apply
it differently. Hey, until Bernard beats a top ten fighter, then he may remain a bum to some people; but I do understand your point.

Dunne's highest ranking is 14 by the less than impressive WBO.
Haye is number 2 with the less than impressive WBO

Also, Bernard has been campaigning at 122 lbs for some years now; Haye is
barely into the heavyweight scene and he is still a hell of as lot
more worthy than Dunne!

But surely the comparison with Haye is far far off the mark. Haye is all I said he is; Dunne hasn't come close to what Haye has achieved and the rankings
alone separate them.

Haye may well be a voluntary due to him simply NOT
being the Number 1 contender; but he is still world world class.

Dunne is a voluntary and he is not ranked, has not beaten any class
opponents or top ten opponents and has never ever challenged on the world scene. This is so far removed from Haye's world!

jdivision

Dunne has no chin, he'd struggle against anybody world class in his current division, if he stepped up he'd be destroyed by the heavier hitting.

conceited

Dunne has no chin, he'd struggle against anybody world class in his current division, if he stepped up he'd be destroyed by the heavier hitting.

He has speed and great footwork.He hasn't a knockout punch but he is a out fighter.
His reach, hand speed, reflexes, and footwork are what win him fights by going the distance.

joepenguin

Anyone know how good Nishioka is and how do you think Dunne would fair out against him?

Walshb I have to say I agree with you and its always been my opinion that Dunne should look to land himself a world title shot asap becuase if he faces one of the major contenders in the division he may very well see himself with anothe loss and with that goes his world title shot and bargaining power with Munroe.
Thats not been negative either, its a really tough division and he could pick the wrong fight. If he beat a wbc top 10 opponent at his weight it would gain him a lot of credability and boost his and his fans confidence.