CAP 1 exemptions

Oriana

Hi there,

This question may have been posted before. just signed uup to this website so im not sure.

I am in my final year of business studies in UL. I am hoping to do the ACA exams with the ICAI. I will be exempt for all the CAP 1 exams except the law paper. i heard it is possible to do the exam in May before starting my training contract and thus start work with the entire CAP 1's completed. I was wondering if anyone has done this, how much it would cost and if there is much work involved in studing for it? it would be great to have the exam done before starting work.

any help is appreciated!!

smcgiff

What would be your reasoning for doing this?

Surely you'd be better off getting a contract and getting exam leave etc? It wont speed up your qualification time.

Stabshauptmann

Indeed, please find attached the info you require, but I personally wouldnt go down this road if you have a job lined up. It wont increase your salary and you wont qualify any sooner, all you'll be doing is forfeiting 2-3 weeks paid leave. edit: not correct see last post

http://www.icai.ie/Global/exampapers/2008%20EXTERNAL%20ENTRY%20FORM.pdf
eitd: no assessment, thinking of law.

Really do think about why you're doing this

Oriana

thanks very much for that!!!
i know it wont speed up my qualification time but by going in and doin CAP 2 in my first year my salary should go up to a higher rate if i pass them than if i passed my CAP1 in that year!! thats what i have been told anyway!!! im still only thinkin about it!! just wanted to know how much it would cost me and that.

LightningBolt

I'm in a similar predicament, basically when getting my Cap 1 exemptions I was told I wasn't given my Fin A/C exemption because in my 1st year of college I got a D in one of the exams (looking back really should have gone to class:D) Subsequently in the rest of my Fin A/C exams I got a B or higher and thought I'd the exemption in the bag. Unfortunately not, I'm now doing a Masters that gives Cap 2 exemptions but the institute told me that I won't get my Cap 2's until I've that Cap 1.

I think I'd like to do the Autumn sitting next year before I start so I've no exams at all to worry about in my first year, don't think it'd make a difference to pay scales if I don't though because I presume I'll have passed the exam come the time of pay rises in June/July 09.

Failed Salesman

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Indeed, please find attached the info you require, but I personally wouldnt go down this road if you have a job lined up. It wont increase your salary and you wont qualify any sooner, all you'll be doing is forfeiting 2-3 weeks paid leave.

Are you fairly certain about that? As I'm fairly sure that while it won't affect your pay after you finish CAP 2, your pay as a senior will definitely be higher if you finished FAEs than those that haven't.

You'll still have to do the three and half years however.

Oh, and law does not give you 2-3 weeks study leave. Its considered half an exam in the ICAI, so you'll only get half a week, plus whatever exam leave the firm will entitle you too.

Stabshauptmann

Oriana wrote: »

thanks very much for that!!!
i know it wont speed up my qualification time but by going in and doin CAP 2 in my first year my salary should go up to a higher rate if i pass them than if i passed my CAP1 in that year!! thats what i have been told anyway!!! im still only thinkin about it!! just wanted to know how much it would cost me and that.

Id recommend you check this with someone in HR or management in the firm you hope to work for. [delete error]

FailedSalesman wrote:

Oh, and law does not give you 2-3 weeks study leave. Its considered half an exam in the ICAI, so you'll only get half a week, plus whatever exam leave the firm will entitle you too.

Under my firms study policy you should get 8.75 days, for those repeating just law this year they got 2 weeks. Other firms might have different policies.

Stabshauptmann

LightningBolt wrote: »

IUnfortunately not, I'm now doing a Masters that gives Cap 2 exemptions but the institute told me that I won't get my Cap 2's until I've that Cap 1.

Thats very strange, and illogical, but typical of the institute. A class mate who took all the same courses as me in college, and did better than me in each exam, got fewer exemptions that me. It just made no sense, but there was no arguing with the institute.

Failed Salesman

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Id recommend you check this with someone in HR or management in the firm you hope to work for. Im in one of the big4 and what happens here is that those who are exempt from CAP1 simply do no exams in their first year and then progress as normal.

+1

I think this just emphasises how different the big 4 can be. Anyone exempt from CAP 1 in my firm simply go straight to CAP 2.

Fruiti

Failed Salesman wrote: »

+1

I think this just emphasises how different the big 4 can be. Anyone exempt from CAP 1 in my firm simply go straight to CAP 2.

Absolutely - this is the policy in my firm too. I can't believe people in some firms who are exempt from CAP 1 do nothing for year 1 thus they don't qualify until year 3? that's bizarre. Most people in my firm would qualify at the end of Year 2 and so are on post FAE salary after 2, not 3 years. That seems like a blatent attempt by one of the firms to keep trainees on unqualified salaries for a year longer to be honest. So for the OP, assuming her firm allows her to proceed straight to CAP 2 then she will speed up her qualification (and her salary increases!) by a year by doing what's she's planning. Plus the Law exam isn't exactly taxing!!

Stabshauptmann

I had a talk with a few more people to get the policy straight and a talk with a friend of mine in HR in another accounting firm.

Yes, do the exam externally. Ill see if I can type the detail before boards goes down

Its people with the MAcc we dont let do the FAEs in their first year, prob something to do with too high staff turnover otherwise.

We, and most places, will let you go straight into CAP2, which means you will sit FAE sooner and get more money over the course of your 3.5 years.

Your pay is made up of
Experience (no. of years)
Performance (we've a 5 point evaluation scale)
Exams

Your pay after doing the FAEs wouldnt be higher than someone who started a year before you and didnt get a CAP1 exemption, but it would certainly be higher than those who started the same time as you and were only after sitting CAP2.

Sorry for the confusion, Best of luck.

Running Bing

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Your pay is made up of
Experience (no. of years)
Performance (we've a 5 point evaluation scale)
Exams

Thats interesting...could you elaborate a bit more on the scale?


Any idea how much weighting is given to performance during pay reviews?

Fruiti

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Its people with the MAcc we dont let do the FAEs in their first year, prob something to do with too high staff turnover otherwise.

We, and most places, will let you go straight into CAP2, which means you will sit FAE sooner and get more money over the course of your 3.5 years.

Your pay is made up of
Experience (no. of years)
Performance (we've a 5 point evaluation scale)
Exams

Your pay after doing the FAEs wouldnt be higher than someone who started a year before you and didnt get a CAP1 exemption, but it would certainly be higher than those who started the same time as you and were only after sitting CAP2.

Sorry for the confusion, Best of luck.

That's what I thought! Same in my firm - lord, they'd be keeping everyone a pauper if they were refusing to let ppl sit exams in 1st year!:)

We've a 5 point scale as well and for trainees, there's about €1,500 in the difference in terms of pay for each level - so it goes something like - everyone gets a standard payrise then depending on the rating you get, you get a further increment. So if you get the top rating and ur friend only gets the middle rating, then you'd earn €3k more assuming ur at the same level in terms of exams etc! so it's worth it to work hard!!

Failed Salesman

It's hard to quantify exactly how performance affects your pay. For starters, the higher your level, the bigger the difference in pay between a good/standard/poor performer.

Also, the difference in pay between a poor or standard performer and a standard or good performer aren't necessarily the same either. Can be quiet confusing

Oriana

thanks for that. i think i might do it in may and then have it done and hopefuly pass it. i heard the law exam isnt too hard anyway just requires some study. im thinkin of going to one of the big 4 and starting into cap 2 in my first year! sooner i get qualifed the better.
thanks for all the help here!!!!

LightningBolt

Provided you've your Cap 1's everyone starts their Cap 2's in first year. If you go in having done the masters (Cap 2's;)) you won't do any exams in the first year.

On a side note, do the FAE's require actual knowledge of day to day accounting practice unlike Cap 2 where some people get them through practice whilst others get them through the masters. ie Would it be possible just to study for the FAE's having no work experience?

And yes, I know it's never gonna happen:D

ams

Technically yes (people who train outside practice would have to do this i.e. no day to day accounting experience).

Obviously this would make some of the exams espec. auditing harder. Its not too different though than people who work in funds and have never done a tax return doing the exams so once you put the work in you'd get through them.