Why doesn't O'Gara bulk up a bit?

thehighground

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

He doesnt need to bulk up, he just needs to learn how to tackle, simple as.
Ok he isnt the biggest on the team, but I'ven seen international players smaller than him be much better tacklers.

As said above, he has learned how to tackle since 2005. Did he miss any today? (presumably he would have been targetted as well )?

Watch him take down Chabal - and if you were a Munster supporter you would know he is not the defensive liability nowadays that he used to be. In fact, his quick reaction saved a try today.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=PG9jtYK4Sew

Stev_o

thehighground wrote: »

As said above, he has learned how to tackle since 2005. Did he miss any today? (presumably he would have been targetted as well )?

Watch him take down Chabal - and if you were a Munster supporter you would know he is not the defensive liability nowadays that he used to be. In fact, his quick reaction saved a try today.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=PG9jtYK4Sew

Aye but then he does something like this and you have to think wtf

thehighground

Stev_o wrote: »

Aye but then he does something like this and you have to think wtf

If you look at it, Shane Williams stepped him and caught him off balance. Shane Williams is a world class winger and about six other Munster players didn't make the tackles either.

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

If you look at it, Shane Williams stepped him and caught him off balance. Shane Williams is a world class winger and about six other Munster players didn't make the tackles either.

Are you saying those 6 other players would have, In O'Gara's position, have been bowled over like that?

No way.

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

Are you saying those 6 other players would have, In O'Gara's position, have been bowled over like that?

No way.

I'm saying that Shane Williams has a brilliant jink, was going one way and then went the other way so O'Gara was caught slightly off balance. He wasn't run down like there as you imply.

Some of the other didn't even get a hand on Williams as Williams is world class.

So, now are you impressed with ROG grounding hard man Chabal?

davyjose

I'm not at all impressed by O'gara's ability to tackle. If you're telling me he made a good tackle once, I'll believe you, but that "tackle" on Williams, was dire.

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

I'm not at all impressed by O'gara's ability to tackle. If you're telling me he made a good tackle once, I'll believe you, but that "tackle" on Williams, was dire.

Shane Williams has 43 tries for Wales in 59 caps. Fair few missed 'tackles' there.

Now, are you impressed that ROG grounded Chabal?

Amz

Hitting and grounding players like Chabal shouldn't be the exception, it should be the rule for professional rugby players.

The fact that people have been posting the same 1, or 2 clips of O'Gara making tackles (because they're the only ones out there) for the last couple of years, is to me, a sure sign that he needs to improve that aspect of his play.

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

Shane Williams has 43 tries for Wales in 59 caps. Fair few missed 'tackles' there.

Now, are you impressed that ROG grounded Chabal?

TBH, I'm not. Chabal was clumsy in that passage of play, besides which, I'm not impressed with a tackle when it's a once-off.

The bottom line is, we forgave O'Gara his lack of defensive prowess because of what he offered going forward. Now that that's on the wane, he's really starting to lose his appeal.
IMO O'Gara was at his best when there was competition in the Flyhalf postion for Ireland. Since Humphrey's got ditched*, we haven't seen the fight in ROG.

*Part of the great EOS legacy.

Sangre

ROG's man problem seems to be he always waits for the tackler to hit him. Also he always goes too high on the bigger players.

thehighground

Amz wrote: »

Hitting and grounding players like Chabal shouldn't be the exception, it should be the rule for professional rugby players.

The fact that people have been posting the same 1, or 2 clips of O'Gara making tackles (because they're the only ones out there) for the last couple of years, is to me, a sure sign that he needs to improve that aspect of his play.

I think most people are impressed when a player like Chabal is taken down!

Sorry, don't follow your logic here at all? No clips of missed tackles is surely an indication of it not being a big issue anymore?

You do notice a fair few clips around of Doug Howlett and Mafi making big hits though. Doug Howlett especially knows how to line his man up.

davyjose

There's no clips of me missing tackles for Ireland either? If no clips = great player, then I'm amongt the best, right?

Seriously, who's going to post clips of people missing tackles? :rolleyes:

brianthebard

How much of that tackle is down to o'Gara and how much of it is down to the guy who goes over him and hits Chabal in the chest? Watch it again, the big knock comes from the second guy. O'Gara might have taken him down without the second man, but it wouldn't even have been worth taping I'd say. You're arguing that no vids of missed tackles means he's ok, but there's only been one video of him making a tackle posted, so what does that say?

Actually, if you play it back and keep hitting play pause you'll see just how weak O'Gara was in that tackle, he's spun off to the side and only for the second guy Chabal probably would've carried on without flinching tbh. (stop it at 5/6 secs and see who's making the hit).

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

TBH, I'm not. Chabal was clumsy in that passage of play, besides which, I'm not impressed with a tackle when it's a once-off.

The bottom line is, we forgave O'Gara his lack of defensive prowess because of what he offered going forward. Now that that's on the wane, he's really starting to lose his appeal.
IMO O'Gara was at his best when there was competition in the Flyhalf postion for Ireland. Since Humphrey's got ditched*, we haven't seen the fight in ROG.

*Part of the great EOS legacy.

You've obviously forgiven and well forgotten Humphs defensive frailties :rolleyes:

So, is it ROG's fault that Sexton & O'Connor and Humphs jun. can't get a game for their Province and that he has no competition. What happened to Jeremy Staunton who was meant to be very talented?

Maybe its not such an easy position to play as you might think.

thehighground

brianthebard wrote: »

How much of that tackle is down to o'Gara and how much of it is down to the guy who goes over him and hits Chabal in the chest? Watch it again, the big knock comes from the second guy. O'Gara might have taken him down without the second man, but it wouldn't even have been worth taping I'd say. You're arguing that no vids of missed tackles means he's ok, but there's only been one video of him making a tackle posted, so what does that say?

Actually, if you play it back and keep hitting play pause you'll see just how weak O'Gara was in that tackle, he's spun off to the side and only for the second guy Chabal probably would've carried on without flinching tbh.

Amz's argument, not mine. I was looking for clarification as to what was meant.

brianthebard

thehighground wrote: »

Amz's argument, not mine. I was looking for clarification as to what was meant.

You were saying its a good tackle, but its not really imo.

[Jackass]

thehighground wrote: »

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=PG9jtYK4Sew

It may have a little something more to do with the shoulder of Axel Foley to the face than O'Gara hugging his ankles that made him a little groggy....

Don't follow what the commentator is telling you, just watch the clip

thehighground

brianthebard wrote: »

You were saying its a good tackle, but its not really imo.

Sorry, we're onto the quality (entertainment value?) of tackles now, are we?

Posters commented that ROG does not tackle. There is a vid of him tackling. So, he does.

I watch all of Munster's games ... and ROG is not the soft tackle touch that some of you want to believe here.

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

You've obviously forgiven and well forgotten Humphs defensive frailties :rolleyes:

No ... I'll repeat myself because obviously you didn't get it the first time: ROG has, in my opinion, gotten worse since Humphreys -- a geniune challenge to his position -- got dropped/retired from b eing a contender for Ireland's Outhalf position. Simple. ROG was sh!t at the World cup, average in the 6 Nations and mediocre at these autumn internationals. If we had any genuine rival to replace him, he'd having to try a lot harder for his place.

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

Posters commented that ROG does not tackle enough.

Fixed for you.

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

No ... I'll repeat myself because obviously you didn't get it the first time: ROG has, in my opinion, gotten worse since Humphreys -- a geniune challenge to his position -- got dropped/retired from b eing a contender for Ireland's Outhalf position. Simple. ROG was sh!t at the World cup, average in the 6 Nations and mediocre at these autumn internationals. If we had any genuine rival to replace him, he'd having to try a lot harder for his place.

ROG won the match today for us:

1. He wound up the Argentinians, who gave away penalties (Alan Quinlan/Denis Leamy were missing) - he kept his head better than they did.
2. He was playing badly (as were the whole team). He kept his head and kept at it and got all of the points (or made them - Tommy Bowe didn't have to do too much).
3. Saving that try was match turning.
4. He knows how to win ugly. Job done.

My question to you - why do you think that there are no outhalves competing for the No. 10 shirt? Jeremy Staunton was highly regarded. Ian Humphreys couldn't make it at Leicester. Sexton started well, but now can't get a game in Leinster. Keatley is doing well - but so did Sexton last year.

I'd love if we had a decent backup 10 - but slagging the one off that we have is just pointless (particularly after winning the game for us today).

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

Fixed for you.

:D:D:D

Great display of debating skills there.

davyjose

Just correcting the poster's grasp of the conversation.

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

Just correcting the poster's grasp of the conversation.

You mean like this post?

He doesnt need to bulk up, he just needs to learn how to tackle, simple as.
Ok he isnt the biggest on the team, but I'ven seen international players smaller than him be much better tacklers.

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

ROG won the match today for us:

1. He wound up the Argentinians, who gave away penalties (Alan Quinlan/Denis Leamy were missing) - he kept his head better than they did.
2. He was playing badly (as were the whole team). He kept his head and kept at it and got all of the points (or made them - Tommy Bowe didn't have to do too much).
3. Saving that try was match turning.
4. He knows how to win ugly. Job done.

My question to you - why do you think that there are no outhalves competing for the No. 10 shirt? Jeremy Staunton was highly regarded. Ian Humphreys couldn't make it at Leicester. Sexton started well, but now can't get a game in Leinster. Keatley is doing well - but so did Sexton last year.

I'd love if we had a decent backup 10 - but slagging the one off that we have is just pointless (particularly after winning the game for us today).

Two things: first off, winding up the opposition is idiotic and low. I feel we can without that - call me old fashioned. Also he made some ridiculous drop goal attempts, which I feel were a result of him being wound up.

Secondly, we don't have a replacement for O'Gara, he'll be there til he retires, and that, I'm afraid, is a tragedy for our Rugby nation. I never rated Staunton or Humphrey's, but I think Sexton is being pushed out by one of the best backs on the planet, and until you question why munster have a bag load of has-been kiwi's on their side, then you can hardly question why JS is being kept out of a place in the Leinster side.

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

You mean like this post?

Nope. You read the post I quoted. Nobody here said ROG NEVER EVER made a tackle.

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

Two things: first off, winding up the opposition is idiotic and low. I feel we can without that - call me old fashioned. Also he made some ridiculous drop goal attempts, which I feel were a result of him being wound up.

Secondly, we don't have a replacement for O'Gara, he'll be there til he retires, and that, I'm afraid, is a tragedy for our Rugby nation. I never rated Staunton or Humphrey's, but I think Sexton is being pushed out by one of the best backs on the planet, and until you question why munster have a bag load of has-been kiwi's on their side, then you can hardly question why JS is being kept out of a place in the Leinster side.

Tell me, are you ok with the carry-on of 'one of the best backs in the planet'?

Argentina are just a horendous team to play against. They usually bully Ireland. Fire with fire is what is needed. ROG took them on at their own game and beat them today. btw, ROG does not have a reputation for 'getting at' or trying to wind up the opposition, unlike the good Doc.

As for the ridiculous drop goals - they eventually worked - because it looked like no one else was going to make it over the try line - Tommy Bowe or Rob Kearney don't have the pace of the Munster kiwi has-beens* (Howlett & Mafi).

*That really made me smile. Hopefully the 7s ruling will change and Warwick & Mafi might declare for Ireland as they are certainly not 'has-beens'.

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

Nope. You read the post I quoted. Nobody here said ROG NEVER EVER made a tackle.

The inference is there that ROG can't, won't, is liability, does not, makes a hash of etc. etc. etc.

or did you mean something else?

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

The inference is there that ROG can't, won't, is liability, does not, makes a hash of etc. etc. etc.

or did you mean something else?

ROG is sh!t at defending. Can i make it any clearer than that?

thehighground

davyjose wrote: »

ROG is sh!t at defending. Can i make it any clearer than that?

Interesting use of words for one who declares to be 'old-fashioned' about winding up opponents.

Now that you are on a roll about behaviour, what do you think of the Doc's behaviour generally ?

davyjose

thehighground wrote: »

Tell me, are you ok with the carry-on of 'one of the best backs in the planet'?

What Carry on is that then?

thehighground wrote: »

Argentina are just a horendous team to play against. They usually bully Ireland. Fire with fire is what is needed. ROG took them on at their own game and beat them today. btw, ROG does not have a reputation for 'getting at' or trying to wind up the opposition, unlike the good Doc.

Agreed, Argentina are a horror to play against, as are all the 4 top ranked teams.
I have no national allegience to the doc, you seem to be confusing my support for my club with my support for Ireland. Something you clearly seem to have trouble with.
And as for being bullied, that just means your crap. Good sides don't get bullied.

thehighground wrote: »

As for the ridiculous drop goals - they eventually worked - because it looked like no one else was going to make it over the try line - Tommy Bowe or Rob Kearney don't have the pace of the Munster kiwi has-beens* (Howlett & Mafi).

*That really made me smile. Hopefully the 7s ruling will change and Warwick & Mafi might declare for Ireland as they are certainly not 'has-beens'.

I'm sure it made you smile, but I don't have time for "eventually" this is international Rugby, and ROG's posturing is something that really doesn't fit in.
BTW, doug Howlett done a really good impression of Tommy Bowe for the try (1 of two things ROG didn't boll0x up today).

daveyrovers

I'm sorry you can call this an anti ROG post if you like but this is a reality check for Ireland.

Our so called expert pundits ie Tony Ward and George Hook are so hung up on ROG that they hand him Man of the Match even when he has an appalling game. Let's look at what he did all day Yesterday.

The positives.
1) Mentally he was able to turn a game that was not going his way into something that we got the win out of.
2) He did make two assisted tackles.
3) He kicked all Irelands points and in large was more or less responsible for all of Irelands points (bowe took the try well but if he hadn't scored from that we really deserved to lose)

The Negatives.
1) The 3 points he gave away with that ridiculous hit at the ruck.
2) His conversion rate of attempted points and actual points was prob around 60%
3) There were two glaring missed tackles I'm sure there were more but I could only see two I've only watched the match once.
4) Unusally for ROG he had a few very poor passes (BOD threw out a few ridiculous ones as well but this post is about ROG)
5) For some reason he seemed to be competing with John Hayes at the side of the ruck for first up tackle, leaving a forward to cover his space in the backline (this could have been something that Kidney asked him to do as perhaps he finds it easier to get someone down at the side of the ruck because they don't have time to build up speed) but if you watch the match again on 2nd phase ROG is standing at the side of the ruck more than 50% of the time.

Man of the match was a joke. Tony ward loves him because he prob reminds him of himself in defence (both are yellow). Unfortunatley we've no ollie Campbell around and he's the best we've got but he won't even make the lions as a back up first five.


While I like hookie he knows very little about rugby didn't know who Mafi was when Munster signed him. Had never heard of leinsters signing Isa Nacewa who has been regularly playing with the Auckland Blues for the past five years. It's not my job to be a rugby pundit but if it was I would certainly know pretty much all the names that are playing regularly in super 14, you'd need to be following more than just leinster and Munster in the HC look oversees Barnes and morris knew all about these guys.

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

Posters commented that ROG does not tackle. There is a vid of him tackling. So, he does.

LOL great logic...

Why does that video always get posted? Its not even an exceptional tackle its a standard rugby tackle ffs I would expect any player to make it. The fact that that video of what is essentially a normal tackle keeps getting posted only furthers my belief that O'Gara cannot tackle

RuggieBear

yawn.

daveirl

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