Trade-in values becoming rediculous...

thelordofcheese

creggy wrote: »

I never trade in games, I wouldn't give them satisfaction. My brother went in trade in FIFA 08 in gamestop on Henry St. They would only give him €2! This was well before FIFA 09 came out.

ITT: people don't understand supply and demand.

noodler

tifosi 1 wrote: »

The reason Xtravision offers often twice the trade in price is because they haven't been in the trade in business long enough to realise that if you buy high you have to sell high. The shelf life of games has dropped dramatically this generation. Gamestop/Game give really bad prices so that when they need to lower the price to shift a bulk load they don't make a loss. Xtravision will find this out in due course and then they'll be giving crap trade in prices(about 2 years ago Game gave great trade in prices). It's not fair to consumers but when did a business ever give a damn about them

They've been doing it for 3 years at least. From ym 3 years experience in XV (a small branch), there was a fairly booming Trade-in ermm.... trade.

Their prices are still bad for anything thats a year old.

xbox36016

i think gamestop is the bast for trade in last weak 4 games in gamestop 60 euro but in Xtravision thay where going to give me 20 euros so which is bitter than

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

tifosi 1 wrote: »

The reason Xtravision offers often twice the trade in price is because they haven't been in the trade in business long enough to realise that if you buy high you have to sell high. The shelf life of games has dropped dramatically this generation. Gamestop/Game give really bad prices so that when they need to lower the price to shift a bulk load they don't make a loss. Xtravision will find this out in due course and then they'll be giving crap trade in prices(about 2 years ago Game gave great trade in prices). It's not fair to consumers but when did a business ever give a damn about them

My personal opinion: Xtravision tend to give more but their prices are dearer on both their pre owned and new games. So you may get 10 euro more on a game but you pay that 10 euro back on the game you purchase.

But thats not really why I quoted this post ...

Not all businesses don't give a damn about consumers - we do - that's all I have to say

kendragon

I'll vouch for gamesnash on the trade in point.. I got way better value on my trade ins through them than i did checking out game, xtravision and gamestop (and i have a mate that runs one of these). and it wasnt a small difference either, but substantially better.

cian1500ww

Gamesnash give you excellent value for trade-ins. Plus they have a very good trade-in system and even pay the postage cost.

TerrorFirmer

Gamesnash.ie wrote: »

My personal opinion: Xtravision tend to give more but their prices are dearer on both their pre owned and new games. So you may get 10 euro more on a game but you pay that 10 euro back on the game you purchase.

But thats not really why I quoted this post ...

Not all businesses don't give a damn about consumers - we do - that's all I have to say

I was in my local and I was seriously impressed by the pre-owned prices. I know I saw Hells Highway for 19.99 2nd hand a week ago, and a few other similar recent titles for the same price. Maybe that's normal already, but I didn't think so and I certainly don't think you'd be getting games that recent any cheaper 2nd hand elsewhere....Also have a 3for2 on some items, which works out pretty well.

TheDoc

Never have and never will trade in games. The only time i have is when i went into a Game store ( wont name) and picked up heavingly swords on release day for a mate, it came up as 5.00 euro on the till...the guy said it was a mistake and i said argued that he had to give me the price it was on the till, the minute he said " ok yeah i guess so" i replied " ok now give me another 40 copies"

I'm pretty much the reason you see a stockpile of these around the dublin area, cause on release day, gamestop were giving 40 euro cash for them

**** you gamestop and game

I honestly cant stand their pricing on new games and second hand. Gamestop have come down a bit in recent weeks, but if it was 3 months ago id well expect gears of war 2 to be 75 euro new.

I gave up years ago trying to persuade and educate the irish populace, cause generally they are a lazy shower of muppets.

Use ebay, use adverts, use buy and sell, use word of mouth.

Stop giving profit to the rip off merchants who are brining down the gaming industry. Its not pirates, its the over inflated second hand market, giving these companies double and triple profits on a game.

I wonder if gaming developers started demanding fees from second hand games...how long would the second hand gmaing market in game and gamestop etc last.

It would be gone in a week

cian1500ww

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Never have and never will trade in games. The only time i have is when i went into a Game store ( wont name) and picked up heavingly swords on release day for a mate, it came up as 5.00 euro on the till...the guy said it was a mistake and i said argued that he had to give me the price it was on the till, the minute he said " ok yeah i guess so" i replied " ok now give me another 40 copies"

I'm pretty much the reason you see a stockpile of these around the dublin area, cause on release day, gamestop were giving 40 euro cash for them

**** you gamestop and game

I honestly cant stand their pricing on new games and second hand. Gamestop have come down a bit in recent weeks, but if it was 3 months ago id well expect gears of war 2 to be 75 euro new.

I gave up years ago trying to persuade and educate the irish populace, cause generally they are a lazy shower of muppets.

Use ebay, use adverts, use buy and sell, use word of mouth.

Stop giving profit to the rip off merchants who are brining down the gaming industry. Its not pirates, its the over inflated second hand market, giving these companies double and triple profits on a game.

I wonder if gaming developers started demanding fees from second hand games...how long would the second hand gmaing market in game and gamestop etc last.

It would be gone in a week

So if they did that they'd have to do the same to secondhand car market and any other secodhand markets. There's nothing worong with buying and selling secondhand games. Developers are just getting greedy. They got full price for the game in the first place.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

cian1500ww wrote: »

So if they did that they'd have to do the same to secondhand car market and any other secodhand markets. There's nothing worong with buying and selling secondhand games. Developers are just getting greedy. They got full price for the game in the first place.

That may well be the most intelligent pro trade in argument I have heard.

For what it's worth the developers / publishers do not want their games being traded in and sold on for obvious reasons. This is an ongoing debate in the industry. However the developers are fighting back such as ...

1) By releasing further content months after the game has come out encouraging gamers to hold onto their purchase longer.
2) By making items a one time use only - example is the forthcoming Wii Speak which comes with a unique code to download the new Wii Speak channel - sell Wii Speak on and that code can't be used again.

There is another side to the coin though and some publishers have openly agreed with it ..

In the second hand car market the car companies can't stop you selling on your vehicle but they hope you replace your old car with a new car of the same brand. The market exists both for pre owned cars and the budgets that come with them versus those who have the budget for a new car. People don't hold onto their old car when buying a new one. Likewise most Gamers could not afford to stock pile their games without ever moving them on. If that was the case then the money would not be there for new games.

As retailers / traders of pre owned games ourselves we can clearly see that there are some customers who want the new release on the day it comes out and are willing to pay the market price for it whereas there are some who will wait for that game to become available pre owned and purchase it then at a lower price.

Some publishers argue that the pre owned market keeps the cost of new games higher as publishers try to get the best price for the game now knowing it may be traded / used multiple times without any further revenue. At the same time though the pre owned prices close to release date anyway are very much dictated by the cost of the game new.

We actually think here at Gamesnash that the best way forward would be for a system to be implemented which would generate royalties to publishers for each pre owned game sold - we think that this would bring down the costs of gaming all round - as a) the publishers would retail the games new cheaper and b) as a result the pre owned prices would also come down in line with it.

thelordofcheese

cian1500ww wrote: »

So if they did that they'd have to do the same to secondhand car market and any other secodhand markets. There's nothing worong with buying and selling secondhand games. Developers are just getting greedy. They got full price for the game in the first place.

*shakes head*

Firstly, i think you mean publishers are getting 'greedy'.

Unless you self-publish, or are one of the top tier companies, developers get fuck all of the money you hand over for a game. They usually get paid a flat fee to make the game and that's it. On occasion they might get royalities but these usually carry enough stipulations to make them pratically worthless.

Secondly your car comparison is vitally flawed in a number of areas.

First, owners of second hand sales of cars still have to have the car serviced, and spare parts come from who? The manufacturer. The changing of ownership doesn't affect the post-sale revenue stream in the slightest.
In comparison, publishers get nothing from second hand sales.

Secondly, you don't own the game, just the licence to run it. This is a contentious but important point. It's not like a car where you actually own the car, you only have the right to use that software on your PC/Console. This, coupled with piracy, is why there is no second hand PC market in an offical sense.

If console piracy ever took off the way PC piracy has the second hand trade would collapse almost instantly.



And finally

[QUOTE=[DM]-TheDOC-]The only time i have is when i went into a Game store ( wont name) and picked up heavingly swords on release day for a mate, it came up as 5.00 euro on the till...the guy said it was a mistake and i said argued that he had to give me the price it was on the till, the minute he said " ok yeah i guess so" i replied " ok now give me another 40 copies"[/QUOTE]

No he didn't. All shop employees should be told of "invitation to treat", for people like you.
And the second you asked for forty copies i'd have thrown you out of the shop.

cian1500ww

thelordofcheese wrote: »

*shakes head*

Firstly, i think you mean publishers are getting 'greedy'.

Unless you self-publish, or are one of the top tier companies, developers get fuck all of the money you hand over for a game. They usually get paid a flat fee to make the game and that's it. On occasion they might get royalities but these usually carry enough stipulations to make them pratically worthless.

Secondly your car comparison is vitally flawed in a number of areas.

First, owners of second hand sales of cars still have to have the car serviced, and spare parts come from who? The manufacturer. The changing of ownership doesn't affect the post-sale revenue stream in the slightest.
In comparison, publishers get nothing from second hand sales.

Secondly, you don't own the game, just the licence to run it. This is a contentious but important point. It's not like a car where you actually own the car, you only have the right to use that software on your PC/Console. This, coupled with piracy, is why there is no second hand PC market in an offical sense.

If console piracy ever took off the way PC piracy has the second hand trade would collapse almost instantly.

Actually you are flawed when you referred to people having to buy parts from manufacturers. They are several companies out there who make replacement parts for cars that are not genuine but are perfect. Also parts can be sourced from autobreakers. Obviously you've never opened the bonnet of a car.
Personally I don't find anything wrong with trading secondhand games. Games aern't cheap and most people can't afford to buy loads of new games and leave them sitting on a shelf never to be used again. Seeing as the only ones who are losing out are publishers who as you say make the most money out of a game then I don't see why we should be worried about them loosing money.

thelordofcheese

cian1500ww wrote: »

Personally I don't find anything wrong with trading secondhand games. Games aern't cheap and most people can't afford to buy loads of new games and leave them sitting on a shelf never to be used again. Seeing as the only ones who are losing out are publishers who as you say make the most money out of a game then I don't see why we should be worried about them loosing money.

Who do you think finances the development of most games?

cian1500ww

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Who do you think finances the development of most games?

Yes but as you said the developers get very little of the proceeds, where does all the rest of money go to apart from advertising ??

xbox36016

ya thare bad but whan you sell a car you lose bigger monay

cian1500ww

xbox36016 wrote: »

ya thare bad but whan you sell a car you lose bigger monay

Well that depends on a lot of things: mileage, condition, model etc.

thelordofcheese

cian1500ww wrote: »

Yes but as you said the developers get very little of the proceeds, where does all the rest of money go to apart from advertising ??

Aside from advertising, publishers usually deal with/pay for

Aquiring the license/rights for games (not always applicable, but very important alot of the time)
QA Testing (publishers do actually do this)
Pressing (taking the ROM and making it into a game)
Shipping and distribution
Translation
and ontop of that are wages and overheads of actually running a business.

Most developers are, like i said, only contracted to develop a game and that's it. Everything else is the publishers doing.

Don't misunderstand, publishers can and often are horrible to developers and customers. But they also power the entire industry, this attitude amongst gamers of "OLOL PUBLISHERS DO NOTHING AND TAKE ALL THE MONIES!" is just such horrible rubbish.
They are a necessary evil.

also inb4 someone mentions steam, that's an alternative distribution method, not an alternative to the current industry model.

xbox36016

not anymore a one year old car is warth about 6000 to 30000 less than you pay for it

seraphimvc

the trading and sale prices are mad i know!!sometimes if ye are lucky like me a student take a look in the shop while waiting for a bus everyday ,crazy price for some big titles.

teh trade in system is the weirdest system ever,my blackhawk+GT4+some game ps2 gave me back 20euro last time.never ever trade in game again.

cian1500ww

xbox36016 wrote: »

not anymore a one year old car is warth about 6000 to 30000 less than you pay for it

Yeah but it doesn't just depend on that, I know of cars that have gone up in value and are now worth more than they were when new but thats different. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the trade-in value on games changes quite a fair bit and really depends on demand. Like a shop with loads of copies of fifa 08 will give a poor trade-in price for it because they don't sell well. The trade-in market is a lot different to the new market as there is no RRP on pre-owned games. Therefore you'd be amazed by the different quotes you might get for your games. Plus the whole quality of the disc, case manual etc. has to be taken into consideration.

noodler

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Never have and never will trade in games. The only time i have is when i went into a Game store ( wont name) and picked up heavingly swords on release day for a mate, it came up as 5.00 euro on the till...the guy said it was a mistake and i said argued that he had to give me the price it was on the till, the minute he said " ok yeah i guess so" i replied " ok now give me another 40 copies"

Are you actually saying you got it for a fiver, that you got 40 copies?

Is any of this true?

The only time we ever had to give someone a cheaper price in XV was if it was advertised in the media, possibly shop windows-thats a grey area.

We didn't have to give anything if something was stickered wrong in the shop-I mean have you seen an XV on a Saturday evening? Kids roaming about etc-how the hell can we honestly work that one.

Don't even get me started on the junkies who periodically came in an purposely put second hand prices on new stock and tried to convince me I had to give it to them at that price.

thelordofcheese

noodler wrote: »

Are you actually saying you got it for a fiver, that you got 40 copies?

Is any of this true?

i think he meant he got 40 copies for 200Euro (40 * 5).

Frankly, it sounds like shit, but you never know.

noodler

The idea that another experienced staff member wouldn't stop him is hard to believe.

Also if someone had his attitude and then asked me for 40 copies of something I would be immediately suspicious.

Anyway, don't believe a word of it. If he did get away with getting a single copy at that price he should consider himself lucky.

cian1500ww

I think he was only joking about the 40 copies bit.................

thebman

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Secondly, you don't own the game, just the licence to run it. This is a contentious but important point. It's not like a car where you actually own the car, you only have the right to use that software on your PC/Console. This, coupled with piracy, is why there is no second hand PC market in an offical sense.

I think we should just compare it to movie sales as it is a very similar market with just as much possibility for piracy in this day and age.

You don't see preowned movies very often and there is a very good reason. People hang on to movies they buy because they are worth less to begin with and it wouldn't be worth selling them on.

Also in many cases, its because they perceive that the product has a value after being watched as they can watch it again and enjoy it.

The strength of the second hand game market shows most games don't have replay value and are in fact just poor products and the developers don't deserve anything for making a poor product. If a developer makes a good game and supports it well then people won't sell it on.

The second market is good for the games industry at the moment as it is making them see the need to add after sale and replay value.

This can only be a good thing for consumers IMO. I know most stores rip off people on trade in prices and people are fools for not using the alternatives in place to avoid this system but people are lazy and can't be ar*sed TBH so this market will continue until its killed by having better value for products.

Activation codes so a product can only run on one console should be made illegal. This only harms the consumer and the market. You may buy a license to play the game but when you sell the game or trade it in you are basicaly trading or selling this license which you no longer want and not the game.

Anyone suggesting you shouldn't be able to do this has an invested interest in preventing it IMO. This is not how the consumer market works in any other area and it is ludicrious to suggest that it should become common place in the gaming market.

If they do this, hackers will just find a way around it so it won't prevent anything and will just drive away consumers or drive them to piracy and in a market they are trying to grow, mistreating consumers is a stupid thing to do.

More people should go the way of Valve and offer updates and content after the game is released and support the gaming community and gamers will not want to trade in the product.

The whole problem is games are being made to play once and discard by a lot of developers at the moment. There is a market for this but it is over inflated at the moment IMO.

MooseJam

funny thing is a lot of people go the console route because they think a gaming PC is too expensive , but if you game a lot you could buy 100 games over the life of the console - Thats 5 thousand down the drain, you could buy a very nice gaming pc for 7 or 8 hundred and download all your games, sure the initial outlay is a bit more than a console but thats it , you don't have to fork out 50 or 70 quid every two weeks for a new game, works out a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run, plus you have a nice pc which can be used for an awfull lot more than a console can

seraphimvc

MooseJam wrote: »

funny thing is a lot of people go the console route because they think a gaming PC is too expensive , but if you game a lot you could buy 100 games over the life of the console - Thats 5 thousand down the drain, you could buy a very nice gaming pc for 7 or 8 hundred and download all your games, sure the initial outlay is a bit more than a console but thats it , you don't have to fork out 50 or 70 quid every two weeks for a new game, works out a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run, plus you have a nice pc which can be used for an awfull lot more than a console can

good point actually.sometimes i was wondering the games collection.i bought only those i love,at least 1000euro there :pac:

cian1500ww

MooseJam wrote: »

funny thing is a lot of people go the console route because they think a gaming PC is too expensive , but if you game a lot you could buy 100 games over the life of the console - Thats 5 thousand down the drain, you could buy a very nice gaming pc for 7 or 8 hundred and download all your games, sure the initial outlay is a bit more than a console but thats it , you don't have to fork out 50 or 70 quid every two weeks for a new game, works out a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run, plus you have a nice pc which can be used for an awfull lot more than a console can

Yeah but you still have to keep the PC updated otherwise you'll find yourself playing games that have to have graphics set to worse than their console counterparts in a few years time. I use both and I build high performance PC's so I know what I'm talking about how much you have to spend on hardware every now again. Console gaming for me is just much less hassle, no worries aboutes drivers, os compatibilities, mucked up installs etc.

MooseJam

If you bought a pc for 800 I would say it would last you a good 2 years, then an upgrade of maybe 200 euro would do you another two years, thats a grand,
a console plus buying 100 games = 5300 euro, It all adds up, of course downloading all your games assumes you have no ethics, you could also sell the games of course but I'd say it would still cost you a lot more , console games are very expensive, it's a bit like the cost of running a printer, you think O theres a great printer for 200 euro but you never think off all those ink refills

cian1500ww

MooseJam wrote: »

If you bought a pc for 800 I would say it would last you a good 2 years, then an upgrade of maybe 200 euro would do you another two years, thats a grand,
a console plus buying 100 games = 5300 euro, It all adds up, of course downloading all your games assumes you have no ethics, you could also sell the games of course but I'd say it would still cost you a lot more , console games are very expensive, it's a bit like the cost of running a printer, you think O theres a great printer for 200 euro but you never think off all those ink refills

Yeah but 100 games ??? I had my PS2 for a good 4-5 years and I only had a max. of 30 games for it. If someone can afford to buy a new game every week then they can afforad a new console every couple of years. An €800 computer would have to be upgraded quite regularly if it doesn't have the best hardware from new.