TV's with MPEG4 DTT decoder

Pangea

This 3d tv seems to be popular now ,I think some stores are selling it for around a grand.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-LE40C750-Widescreen-Allshare-Internet/dp/tech-data/B003JEVQRK/ref=de_a_smtd
It has freeview HD too so that means it will work with Irish Mpeg4 right?

STB

Unless you can receive Freeview HD they are useless though. Same goes with 3D. This whole 3D thing em.....

Look you can get a DVB-T MPEG4 LCD or Plasma for less than half that price.

watty

3D isn't popular. Don't mistake expensive glossy marketing and news reports for Popularity! Before seeing it 25% are interested. After demonstrations only 12.5% are still interested. It's a way to sell new more expensive TVs. 3D films where 8% of cinema attendance. Most of those would have still been watched if not 3D. If a film isn't good in 2D it's only novelty value.

3D is actually the Victorian Stereoscopic system and identical to Viewmaster toy. It doesn't even work for 1/5th of population and gives almost everyone a headache with prolonged viewing.

It's not 3D Production companies are renting rather than buying "3D" equipment and no broadcaster has committed to in house "3D".

It may be good for certain games and new Nintendo 3DS handheld.

Pangea

watty wrote: »

3D isn't popular. Don't mistake expensive glossy marketing and news reports for Popularity! Before seeing it 25% are interested. After demonstrations only 12.5% are still interested. It's a way to sell new more expensive TVs. 3D films where 8% of cinema attendance. Most of those would have still been watched if not 3D. If a film isn't good in 2D it's only novelty value.

3D is actually the Victorian Stereoscopic system and identical to Viewmaster toy. It doesn't even work for 1/5th of population and gives almost everyone a headache with prolonged viewing.

It's not 3D Production companies are renting rather than buying "3D" equipment and no broadcaster has committed to in house "3D".

It may be good for certain games and new Nintendo 3DS handheld.

For people that are choosing 3D that samsung tv is a popular choice ,thats what I meant.
3D itself is not popular yet.
The ps3 is being updated to be a 3D player next week, which will mean there will be 38 million 3d players worldwide next week and the sony have lots of upcoming titles in 3D,

I think 3D just might become popular a lot of people who have played the console games in 3D say its amazing!
You mentioned percentages about people not liking it etc. Im not fond of surveys at all , usually we know nothing about them. :mad:

Pangea

STB wrote: »

Unless you can receive Freeview HD they are useless though. Same goes with 3D. This whole 3D thing em.....

Look you can get a DVB-T MPEG4 LCD or Plasma for less than half that price.

Are you saying that they wont recieve the Irish mpeg4 unless you can recieve the UK freeview hd channels in your area?

STB

Pangea wrote: »

Are you saying that they wont recieve the Irish mpeg4 unless you can recieve the UK freeview hd channels in your area?

No. Freeview HD can only be received in the UK or through overspill (ie coastal parts of Wicklow/Wexford or along the border with NIreland).

It should work with DTT here but its not the same spec. Wait til confirmed as working. If you are not in the afore mentioned areas why buy one anyway when dvb-t mpeg4 tv's are half that price !

Pangea

STB wrote: »

No. Freeview HD can only be received in the UK or through overspill (ie coastal parts of Wicklow/Wexford or along the border with NIreland).

It should work with DTT here but its not the same spec. Wait til confirmed as working. If you are not in the afore mentioned areas why buy one anyway when dvb-t mpeg4 tv's are half that price !

Yes I learned on this forum that freeview only works in some areas, It doesnt work in my area in Donegal.
3d would be my only reason for getting a freeview hd tv.
So just to clarify here and avoid confusion, even though I cant get freeview hd in my area, If I got a freeview hd tv , it may still pick up the Irish mpeg4 channels?

watty

A Saorview certified TV would be better.

Also an HDTV (even 3D) with Freeview, rather than Freeview HD won't work. Avoid the extra (significant) cost of so called 3D.
A "Freeview HD" HDTV may be OK. Wait till Nov/Jan unless you have no TV.

Deedsie

I was just checking a friends tv. This tv isn't compatible with saorview right? Philips 32pfl7332/10

I found this spec page but I am not sure what I am looking at:

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/32pfl7332_10/32pfl7332_10_pss_eng.pdf

STB

Deedsie wrote: »

I was just checking a friends tv. This tv isn't compatible with saorview right? Philips 32pfl7332/10

I found this spec page but I am not sure what I am looking at:

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/32pfl7332_10/32pfl7332_10_pss_eng.pdf

No it isnt (sound and no picture!). There is nothing in that spec sheet to tell you what its is! Sorry i meant to say its MPEG2 - they are common models sold in Ireland since 2007 and no good for DTT.

You would normally see MPEG4 H264 or in the case of the latest Phillips LCD's, they actually include a a better spec sheet : Digital TV: DVB Terrestrial*, DVB-T MPEG4*, DVB-C MPEG4*.

The ones with "H" at the end are the Phillips ones that do MPEG4. ie 32PFL9903H/10.

Pangea

Although many here are not keen on the "fake" 3D, it is still the same concept and im sure it looks pretty cool, even though its not 100% 3D I would still like to have a 3D tv.

STB

The Freeview HD TV should work, but I couldnt guarantee it. You should be able to get Freeview now though. Freeview HD isnt likely to come on stream until 2012, but you should receive the Freeview ones.

I suggest you start a thread about Freeview availability in Donegal. The likes of "lawhec" is up that way and may be able to advise you.

watty

What will you watch? It needs suitable Stereoscopic content.

Check in a Harvey Norman's demo that you are not one of the 20% it doesn't work for. Also it uses special glasses, so if you wear glasses you have a problem. ALL viewers have to wear the glasses, even people that it doesn't work for as otherwise they see a double image. Or else you have to turn off the effect.

Due to the hills and mountains only limited locations get N.I. freeview. A dish + Freesat is a more certain solution and has HD today.

Pangea

STB wrote: »

The Freeview HD TV should work, but I couldnt guarantee it. You should be able to get Freeview now though. Freeview HD isnt likely to come on stream until 2012, but you should receive the Freeview ones.

I suggest you start a thread about Freeview availability in Donegal. The likes of "lawhec" is up that way and may be able to advise you.

Thanks no I dont get freeview here ,I have play tv for the PS3 and its capable of getting mpeg4 and freeview but it cant find freeview, I think the hills is blocking the signal. One tv in the house (with bunny ears ) does pick up a very bad bbc, years ago we got bbc utv and ch4 no problem but not anymore.

watty wrote: »

What will you watch? It needs suitable Stereoscopic content.

Check in a Harvey Norman's demo that you are not one of the 20% it doesn't work for. Also it uses special glasses, so if you wear glasses you have a problem.

How come it doesnt work on some people?
3D for gaming would interest me. But i might just settle for a HD TV until 3D proves itself in the market.

Pangea

Has anyone noticed that there is a delay of like 3 seconds with the mpeg4 broadcast compared to the original analogue.
i.e. Irish mpeg 4 is 3 seconds behind analogue.
I noticed this when someone in the next room is watching analogue , and I am watching mpeg4 ,there is a noticeable delay.

Pangea

Pangea wrote: »

How come it doesnt work on some people?

It doesn't work on me. In order for 3D to work properly you need to be able to focus on both images at the same time to allow your brain to merge them together. However I can't focus using both eyes at the same time (amblyopia). I went to see Toy Story 3 in 3D and it just looked like a darker 2D film to me.

Sponge Bob

I reckon up to 2 out of 3 people have problems with 3D and will at the very least get headaches from it on sustained viewing. I would not recommend anyone buy a 3D TV unless the entire household can view and enjoy a 3D movie for the entire 1 hour 30 minute runtime in the cinema.

The Cush

Pangea wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that there is a delay of like 3 seconds with the mpeg4 broadcast compared to the original analogue.
i.e. Irish mpeg 4 is 3 seconds behind analogue.
I noticed this when someone in the next room is watching analogue , and I am watching mpeg4 ,there is a noticeable delay.

That's normal, it's the same for DAB digital radio versus analogue radio. It can be annoying if the TVs are within earshot of each other.

The delay is due to the extra processing required for a digital transmission, encoding of the tv signal before transmission, and the decoding at the home. There can also be a delay between different digital TVs.

See this post over in Digitalspy - Why is Freeview 4 seconds behind analogue

Souriau

I am looking for a new TV with MPEG-4 which many are out there but I also want to have a USB port that allow me to playback MPEG-2 TS format.
Does anyone know of a TV that can do this MPEG-2 TS playback via USB?

Souriau

Souriau wrote: »

I am looking for a new TV with MPEG-4 which many are out there but I also want to have a USB port that allow me to playback MPEG-2 TS format.
Does anyone know of a TV that can do this MPEG-2 TS playback via USB?

I have the Samsung LE40C530 and it can play MPEG-2 TS files, I used one recorded from BBC HD and it played back fine.

STB

Souriau wrote: »

I am looking for a new TV with MPEG-4 which many are out there but I also want to have a USB port that allow me to playback MPEG-2 TS format.
Does anyone know of a TV that can do this MPEG-2 TS playback via USB?

MPEG TS is a format recorded by sat boxes. TS being the raw transport streams.

watty

MPEG-TS = Transport stream. Format of all DVB transmissions
MPEG-PS = Programe Stream. Package for all Video discs such as VCD, S-VCD, DVD, BD etc.

http://wiki.videolan.org/MPEG

Souriau

STB wrote: »

MPEG TS is a format recorded by sat boxes. TS being the raw transport streams.

Thanks, I know it is from my Humax box and for the file size is lot smaller,
1 hour recording is just 1GB compare to same recording in MPG is 2.5GB while in another format of the same. M2TS is just 1.9GB

what is M2TS?

TS format allow bitrate is 15 Mbps
MPG format bitrate is 6Mbps but 2.5 times bigger file size

How is this possible, different compression or something else?

STB

Souriau wrote: »

Thanks, I know it is from my Humax box and for the file size is lot smaller,
1 hour recording is just 1GB compare to same recording in MPG is 2.5GB while in another format of the same. M2TS is just 1.9GB

what is M2TS?

TS format allow bitrate is 15 Mbps
MPG format bitrate is 6Mbps but 2.5 times bigger file size

How is this possible, different compression or something else?

They are only containers. M2ts is normally associated with AVCHD (MPEG4) files.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG_transport_stream
http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-2_2006_en.html

watty

The header on a saved TS may quote peak bit rate, or the original total stream before de-muxing the channel you want. or be fictitious. TS is live transmisssion and bitrate can't be known by receiver in advance and maybe vary.

File size is related to average bitrate. With simple on the fly compression, often constant bit rate is used.

Note that Variable bit rate peaking at 6Mbps and as low as 0.5MBps can be an average of 1.5Mbps. Using constant bit rate encoding would need 6Mbps for similar quality. Sudden movement, fast panning etc can easily overwhelm CBR set at too low a rate.
VBR is of most advantage on a disc or statistically multiplexed selection of channels.

Domestic cameras and recorders often use CBR (Constant bit rate).

John Dough

Has anyone bought one of these link below? it says TNTHD and freeview but does not say Freeview HD but DVB-T is shown and the tuner information in the spec. is HD/C which means very little!!

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/7048418/art/lg/42pj150-plasma-screen.html?tag=mail_ie_uk_2010-09-21_49038&srcid=3666

STB

John Dough wrote: »

Has anyone bought one of these link below? it says TNTHD and freeview but does not say Freeview HD but DVB-T is shown and the tuner information in the spec. is HD/C which means very little!!

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/7048418/art/lg/42pj150-plasma-screen.html?tag=mail_ie_uk_2010-09-21_49038&srcid=3666

Its suitable for reception of Irish DTT. Like France (TNT HD) we use MPEG4 on DVB-T. Of course it doesnt say Freeview HD.

Why would it say anything about Freeview HD which would require a DVB-T2 tuner. The product is for the French market and will work for Irish DvB-T.

John Dough

Why would it say anything about Freeview HD which would require a DVB-T2 tuner. The product is for the French market and will work for Irish DvB-T.[/QUOTE]

Not correct my friend this product is sold in the E.U. not just France so as such
these sets are useless so for people living in the border counties or N.I. as Freeview HD will be the standard there shortly so it seems they are dumping them on unsuspecting punters 'cos DVB-T2 will be the HD standard for the E.U. countries so similar to the dealers trying to fob off their Mpeg2 sets like those German supermarkets chains ,buyers beware!!

STB

John Dough wrote: »

Not correct my friend this product is sold in the E.U. not just France so as such
these sets are useless so for people living in the border counties or N.I. as Freeview HD will be the standard there shortly so it seems they are dumping them on unsuspecting punters 'cos DVB-T2 will be the HD standard for the E.U. countries so similar to the dealers trying to fob off their Mpeg2 sets like those German supermarkets chains ,buyers beware!!

WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG.

John Dough you have been posting around here long enough to have a grasp of what is going on. I am shocked!

Jeez. Tell me you understand what basic certification branding is for various countries! TNT HD is the certification for France.

And that nonsense about dvb-t2 being the HD standard for Europe - WHERE did you pick that up ?????

EACH COUNTRY has adopted their OWN PLATFORM and SPEC!!

The majority of country WILL use DVB-T for MPEG4 HD! ONLY the UK use DVB-T2 for HD.

Tell me you understand this.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

ONLY the UK use DVB-T2 for HD.

Finland, Sweden and Italy will also use DVB-T2 for HD, some other countries are running trials - almost all are DVB-T/MPEG-2 for SD.

watty

The Cush wrote: »

Finland, Sweden and Italy will also use DVB-T2 for HD,

We are so delayed that we didn't roll out DVB-T MPEG2, which is a silver lining in cloud.
But also don't forget folks, that while DVB-T2 is a good choice today, that is nearly 2 years late.
There was supposed to be finalised the spec in 2007, then in 2008 for 90% roll-out by December 2009! DVB-T2 was only on Trials then.
Only the doctrinaire clinging to the idea of Pay DTT prevent DTT rollout in 2000 and then later by early 2008 then later (when no time limit on Boxer/Onevision) the roll out by 2009 had not happened.

No-one then wanted to change the spec when everything running so much behind hand. Didn't first public TX of DVB-T2 only December 2009 and setboxes only available this year.

Now if there had been another year of pointless negotiations and posturing and RTE NL hadn't taken the Government at their word in 2007/2008 and went and spent nearly €40M on gear for PSB and Pay TV Mux, we would be looking at DVB-T2 + MPEG4.

Plenty of the newer rollouts are using DVB-T + MPEG4 for HD.
Virtually all the original DVB-T + MPEG2 will go for DVB-T2 + MPEG4 to add HD.
People even further behind than us that are having HD, will have DVB-T2 + MPEG4 from the start.

So given the Stupid timescale and withering about, DVB-T + MPEG4 was best compromise.
Also DVB-T2 + MPEG4 + AAC boxes will work (and fully probably if MHEG5).
We don't have much Indigenous PayTV (Setanta + TV3e?) or complete 4 channel analogue UHF to run so the extra spectrum saving of DVB-T2 isn't important. We don't in fact even have Pay TV operator on DTT as some other countries do.

In the extremely unlikely event of payTV happening on DTT it could use DVB-T2 on its Multiplexes and they can supply a free set-box with card.

So I don't see any problem at all with DVB-T + MPEG4 + AAC
MHEG5 is a reasonable Middleware choice as UK use it. The only viable alternative is MHP.

STB

The Cush wrote: »

Finland, Sweden and Italy will also use DVB-T2 for HD, some other countries are running trials - almost all are DVB-T/MPEG-2 for SD.

Indeed (I knew that but didnt want to confuse matters). I'd previously posted the Digitag list which is the latest list I have of who is doing what. And Watty is right, everything is about timing. At least by not being an early adopter we dont have the problem of double DSO ! A lot of the early pioneers are stuck with MPEG2 and it may suit them not to do anything until well after 2012.

It is a very simplistic view to take that version 2 is better than version 1 of anything. Dont forget the main reason that the UK is adopting this is that they have capacity problems due to its number of stations and its use of legacy lossy inefficient codec MPEG2 and the wish to carry HD content. So its a UK solution to a UK problem.

The majority of countries in Europe who have been tresting DTT in the mid noughties have adopted DVB-T and MPEG4.

We wont have capacity probolems running MPEG4 SD and HD channels on DVB-T. People think they are being swindled by not adopting DVB-T2, but its only advantage is more efficient use of bandwidth for getting more stations on a mux. There is no quality increase for Ireland in adopting dvb-t2.

watty

STB wrote: »

We wont have capacity problems running MPEG4 SD and HD channels on DVB-T. People think they are being swindled by not adopting DVB-T2, but its only advantage is more efficient use of bandwidth for getting more stations on a mux. There is no quality increase for Ireland in adopting dvb-t2.

Beautifully and clearly put. Also absolutely nothing stopping people using UK DVB-T2 HD boxes, Probably*.

(* It should be OK and UK DVB-T2 boxes tested seem OK. Will any get dual Freeview HD + Saorview logo? Advantage in N.I and 10% of IRL market).

championc

watty wrote: »

Beautifully and clearly put. Also absolutely nothing stopping people using UK DVB-T2 HD boxes, Probably*.

(* It should be OK and UK DVB-T2 boxes tested seem OK. Will any get dual Freeview HD + Saorview logo? Advantage in N.I and 10% of IRL market).

Although from another thread, it would seem that UK Panasonic TV's (or more specifically the G20B) will possibly have issues with the ServiceType coding - see STB's posting http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67975019&postcount=16

John Dough

STB wrote: »

WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG.

John Dough you have been posting around here long enough to have a grasp of what is going on. I am shocked!

Jeez. Tell me you understand what basic certification branding is for various countries! TNT HD is the certification for France.

And that nonsense about dvb-t2 being the HD standard for Europe - WHERE did you pick that up ?????

EACH COUNTRY has adopted their OWN PLATFORM and SPEC!!

The majority of country WILL use DVB-T for MPEG4 HD! ONLY the UK use DVB-T2 for HD.

Tell me you understand this.

Keep your knickers on mate!!

It is all on the E.U. website Try Googling!!!

The Cush

John Dough wrote: »

It is all on the E.U. website Try Googling!!!

Same easy answer every time.

When you post a statement as fact at least back it up with a link and don't expect others to waste their time searching for something that doesn't exist.

The closest the EU have come to DVB-T2 is recommending that spectrum efficient standards (incl. MPEG-4 with DVB-T) to be used in the EU so that the Digital Dividend can be achieved in the shortest time possible. It is not mandated and each country will decide in their own best economic and industry interests.

STB

John Dough wrote: »

Keep your knickers on mate!!

It is all on the E.U. website Try Googling!!!

Me knickers are on pal.

I know what I am talking about John Dough.

My suggestion is you stop gooooogling!

reslfj

The Cush wrote: »

The closest the EU have come to DVB-T2 is recommending that spectrum efficient standards (incl. MPEG-4 with DVB-T) to be used in the EU so that the Digital Dividend can be achieved in the shortest time possible.

The EU consultation asked among other things if MPEG-4 and/or DVB-T2 should be required in STB/IDTV's.
Consultation document 2009-09-04


The EU concluded that the recommendations should focus on early DSO (before 2012 if possible) and on harmonised DD - i.e. clearing the 800 MHz band.
Council (of EU ministers) conclusions.


MPEG-4 and DVB-T2 were not included as they were believed to be implemented rather soon anyway.

The DD and the 800 MHz band is not a EU 'thing', it is an ITU/WRC07-WRC11/CEPT plan that the EU is recommending.


Lars

reslfj

STB wrote: »

It is a very simplistic view to take that version 2 is better than version 1 of anything.
We wont have capacity probolems running MPEG4 SD and HD channels on DVB-T. People think they are being swindled by not adopting DVB-T2, but its only advantage is more efficient use of bandwidth for getting more stations on a mux. There is no quality increase for Ireland in adopting dvb-t2.

I may agree - in view og the current financial situation - that DVB-T/MPEG-4 is OK for Irland - at least for now.

But DVB-T2 has huge quality benefits compared to DVB-T. There are very many features within DVB-T2 that makes the signal much more robust - even at the higher bit-rates.



Let me mention a few:

• 10+ dB higher impulse robustness - (32k mode and/or deep time-interleave)
• Indirect signals (e.g. indoor-aerials)- Rayleigh channels - have lower C/N requirements - ('rotated constellations' 'bit interleave' 'frequency interleave')
• 0 dB echo robustness is much higher - not least for the higher coderates - ('rotated constellations' 'bit interleave' 'frequency interleave')
• PAPR reduction - potential savings in power and TX-equipment.
• Country wide SFN is possible with DVB-T2, but not with DVB-T.

Watty wrote:

Also DVB-T2 + MPEG4 + AAC boxes will work (and fully probably if MHEG5).

And may well be the closest thing to 'futureproof' there is.


Lars

The Cush

reslfj wrote: »

The EU consultation asked among other things if MPEG-4 and/or DVB-T2 should be required in STB/IDTV's.
Consultation document 2009-09-04


The EU concluded that the recommendations should focus on early DSO (before 2012 if possible) and on harmonised DD - i.e. clearing the 800 MHz band.
Council (of EU ministers) conclusions.


MPEG-4 and DVB-T2 were not included as they were believed to be implemented rather soon anyway.

The DD and the 800 MHz band is not a EU 'thing', it is an ITU/WRC07-WRC11/CEPT plan that the EU is recommending.


Lars

Yes, thanks reslfj. I knew that but was keeping it as simple as possible in reply to John Dough who said "'cos DVB-T2 will be the HD standard for the E.U. countries" and as we both know DVB-T2 has not been mandated by the EU as the HDTV standard in the EU countries and is for each country to decide its own standard, which could be DVB-T2 or DVB-T together with MPEG-4. Ireland as you can see from recent posts started DVB-T/MPEG-4 HD video tests yesterday.

We discussed this very recently if you remember and John Dough was there too.

watty

That's why the likely compromise is that if payTV EVER happens on DTT, it can use DVB-T2 on its Multiplexes and supply DVB-T2 PayTV boxes.

reslfj

The Cush wrote: »

We discussed this very recently if you remember and John Dough was there too.

Sure, but then I only stated the facts - this time I have linked to the EU papers.

You should note that this EU consultation process was a year ago and much have happend on the MPEG-4 front and even more with DVB-T2.

I have just heard from Teracom (Boxer) in Sweden, that they - even though T2 will not be mandatory before 2012 (15 month) in the Nordig spec., - expect the prices of all DTT devices with or without DVB-T2 to be almost identical within a few months - except for very low cost FTA STB's.

Lars

reslfj

watty wrote: »

....if payTV EVER happens on DTT ...

Boxertv.dk do not have a lot of customers - not yet at least - and we do not have access to any free satellite channels (in our own language). I think pay-DTT will be very difficult in ROI.

watty wrote: »

... it can use DVB-T2 on its Multiplexes and supply DVB-T2 PayTV boxes.

Without a doubt. A 'free' STB with a pay-DTT subscribtion most surely will be a DVB-T2 STB.

Where will the capacity for the BBC channels (MoU) come from ? BBC-1 will be in HD by year end.

Lars

The Cush

reslfj wrote: »

expect the prices of all DTT devices with or without DVB-T2 to be almost identical within a few months - except for very low cost FTA STB's.

Lars

reslfj wrote: »

Without a doubt. A 'free' STB with a pay-DTT subscribtion most surely will be a DVB-T2 STB.

Where will the capacity for the BBC channels (MoU) come from ? BBC-1 will be in HD by year end.

Lars

First off the BBC channels in relation to the MoU is a dead duck because of the failed commercial DTT process. RTÉ has said that these channels will not be part of the PSB muxes and that they are available on freesat or Sky if you wish to pay. BBC1 HD will not replace BBC 1 SD, it will be a simulcast, probably until the UK decides to migrate all muxes to DVB-T2.

By the end of 2012 with ASO happening on both sides of the border and the different DTT standards a DVB-T2 freeview-HD receiver will be necessary if you want to watch the NI freeview-HD overspill. I would expect these Saorview certified DVB-T2 compatible receivers to be available long before that.

reslfj wrote: »

Sure, but then I only stated the facts - this time I have linked to the EU papers.

I was going to leave that for John Dough to do, he's big into googling the EU websites.

watty

An MOU is no commitment to spend money or indeed really do anything more that say we won't try and block stuff...

Machinehead

Quick Pop Quiz: Are DVB-T2 & DVB-T (MPEG4-AVC [H.264]) one in the same?

copacetic

no

Machinehead

copacetic wrote: »

no

Crap - I thought my Panny D25L was future proofed. First no MHEG5, now no DVD-T2..

copacetic

it's extremely unlikey you'll miss not having DVB-T2 in Ireland for the lifetime of your TV set.

STB

reslfj wrote: »

Boxertv.dk do not have a lot of customers - not yet at least - and we do not have access to any free satellite channels (in our own language). I think pay-DTT will be very difficult in ROI.

Without a doubt. A 'free' STB with a pay-DTT subscribtion most surely will be a DVB-T2 STB.

Where will the capacity for the BBC channels (MoU) come from ? BBC-1 will be in HD by year end.

Lars

Pay DTT outside of just a Top up TV Sports channels was always going to be a non runner.

Most UK DVB-T2 products available in Ireland are DBook spec.

The Teracom document referred to in this thread do not take in to account the add ons Ireland has made to Nordig for our requirements but as you can see there are there are differences alone with Nordig and UK dvb-t2 spec. Our nearest neighbour would be the source of such grey boxes/Tvs.

Anyhow any approved products or ROI will receive "Saorview" certification and would not be dvb-t2 off the shelf from the UK unless conforming with RTE spec. As a grey box they may well work but given what I have seen defined in previous UK Dbook firmware it can not be relied on as manufacturers can take very narrow views on spec.

Back to manufacturing standards which is a separate issue. So whilst it would be nice to have a standardisation to cover all of Europe specs I cant see it being implemented any day soon and even then there will be a lead in time (first of all to allow the products become affordable and secondly to allow the old legacy TVs have their allowable shelf life). And in this regard the biggest bugbear is the early adopters of DTT (the swiss etc of this world). Nearly all of the early adopters broadcast in MPEG2 including our neighbours in GB who still broadcast in MPEG2 for their SD stations. Big problem is warehouses full of MPEG2 products for those early adopter markets. Certainly the manufacturers will be reluctant to just dump them overnight (I wish they would!!!). Given 2012 as ASO/DSO, conservatively that could take up to 10 years for MPEG2 only IDTVs to die (and that is assuming no further such manufacturing of MPEG2 takes place). CI+ standardisation will be a big help to where you are going with this.

Where will additional capacity come from you asked. RTE NL are not confined to 1 mux. They will be using a second mux which may be up and running by April 2010. DVB-T platform will be used or a long time to come over here for a long time to come.

watty wrote: »

An MOU is no commitment to spend money or indeed really do anything more that say we won't try and block stuff...

People seem to presume that any such implementation of MOU carried stations would require a change in the broadcast platform adopted by Ireland. Why ?