TV's with MPEG4 DTT decoder

STB

The Cush wrote: »

The only thing is the spec in not mandatory for any product sold in the country. The spec is only mandatory for products seeking Saorview certification. In Jan 2010 there wasn't a public DTT service in the country and the TV wasn't being sold as ready for Irish DTT. Teracom were only appointed earlier this year for product testing.

Operational for standards for countries have to be adhered to afaik. Manufactures have consistently supported MHEG, via a stringent conformance regime and the development of country-specific profiles. When did this change for Ireland ?

My understanding is that DVB standards dictate that as manufacturing goes country profiles are created in line with published standards. This ensures that TVs are compliant for the country's destination. It means that they dont release ISDBT products in Europe and it dictates simple things like how VHF is turned off in UK but not Ireland.

Countries using ETSI ES 202 184 are well defined. It includes Ireland. Why isnt MHEG5 implemented per the mandatory requirements for iDTVs for Ireland. The UK have a specific model for UK - the B models. MHEG5 again is mandatory and is implemented.

The L models (Specified as Irish models) has no implementation of country profiled standards. We have been profiled with countries using MHP. This is nothing to do with Saorview certification but basic operational requirements and being included in the right profiled group of released TVs. Firmware turns off and on various basic requirements per country.

STB

watty wrote: »

OK missed the detail.

Totally agree
Problem is that here we have ASAI and CAI

Most people hardly know either exists.
While there is an online form for ASAI, you have to write a letter

You have to write, on real paper, for them to even progress.

They won't do anything as CAI is some sort of Quango with a question as to independence of decision process.

ASAI is industry association and believes the vendors without any independent verification.

Both are more useless than Chocolate Teapot, as at least you can eat Chocolate

The Consumer Electronic Distributors Association, (CEDA), is the sectoral association within ICT Ireland promoting the development and representing the interests of the major distributors of consumer electronic goods in Ireland.


In order to keep pace with this change CEDA regularly consults with Government and organisations such as RTE, the Commission for Communications Regulation and educational establishments to ensure that policy makers are up to date with the needs of the industry. Key areas of activity addressed by the association include:

• Representation of the industry in respect of Legal & Regulatory issues on a local & European basis.
• Environmental Issues
• Training & Skills Development
• After Sales Service Policies & Provision
• Communication Forum for Industry Specific Issues

At national level, the association is focussed on both short and long term issues. In the area of EU legislation and policy, there is a considerable advantage to being a member of a larger group such as ICT and IBEC. The introduction of the E U Waste from Electronics and Electrical Equipment (WEEE) directive, will place added responsibilities on all those within the supply chain to deal with recycling and disposal.

CEDA also compiles market statistics on the sales of a variety of "brown" goods in Ireland. Reflecting rising prosperity, these figures have shown consistent increases in recent years and give an interesting indication of the changing purchases of the Irish consumer.

Members of CEDA include:
Beko, LG Electronics, Audiovisual Import, Panasonic, Sharp, Mitsubishi, Philips Ireland, Sony Ireland, Sanyo, JVC, Dimpco, KAL.

The current chairman of the association is Mr. Sushil Teji, Sony Electronics.

Director : Kathryn Raleigh
Executive : Alicia Hunt
Secretariat : Patricia Keogh

For further details on the activities of CEDA, phone 01 605 1582


http://www.ibec.ie/IBEC/BA.nsf/vPages/Business_Sectors~ICT_Ireland~consumer-electronic-distributors-association?OpenDocument

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Manufactures have consistently supported MHEG, via a stringent conformance regime and the development of country-specific profiles. When did this change for Ireland ?
...
Why isnt MHEG5 implemented per the mandatory requirements for iDTVs for Ireland. The UK have a specific model for UK - the B models. MHEG5 again is mandatory and is implemented.

The stringent conformance regime for Ireland is the Teracom testing and Saorview certification process. DVB standards don't mandate MHEG-5 or any specific middleware.

MHEG5 will be implemented per the Saorview-certified mandatory requirements for DTT receivers in Ireland.

In the UK MHEG5 is mandatory and is implemented on freeview-certified receivers. There is at least one non-MHEG5 receiver being used for freeview (see lawhec's post)

Other than the certified products it'll be up to the manufacturers to implement MHEG-5 and will probably do so in due course, e.g. I have two non Saorview certified Sony TVs; one does MHEG-5 in the Ireland setting the other doesn't.

watty

Saorview certification is just a convenience for retailer and consumer to take away guess work.

If the TV does DVB-T or DVB-T2, MPEG4, HD and AAC for ANY country then there is no excuse as MHEG5 is royalty free. Doubly no excuse if there is a UK Model that is HD an MPEG4, even if only DVB-T, though all newer UK HDTVs will be DVB-T and DVB-T2.

At this stage it reeks of product dumping.

I'm considering physical mail shot to all the major retailers, distributors and Manufacturers. It wouldn't be much expense.

Of course the Powers that Be should have a combo mail shot with Logos/Endorsement of

• Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources
• CAI
• ASAI
• BAI
• RTE NL
• RTE, TV3 and TG4
• Comreg

Signed by New head of Digital Awareness Campaign
http://www.rte.ie/about/pressreleases/2010/0701/directordso010710.html

RTÉ has appointed Mary Curtis to the new senior executive position of Director of Digital Switchover, with responsibility for an effective transition by audiences in the coming two years to digital television using the new Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) system.

(1st July 2010) via http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055956167

Minister Ryan: In the meantime, the clear responsibility of my Department, in conjunction with the RTÉ, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI), ComReg and other stakeholders, is to progress the digital switch-over process so that it meets the 2012 timeline for analogue switch off.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67436308&postcount=7
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68621009&postcount=41

The Government keep boasting about how they will make €500M from this (Profit auctioning TV spectrum AKA Digital Dividend, but it should be smarter than that, like 1M for Spectrum and Beauty Contest, value is then from Infrastructure)

When The Authorities do nothing, it's up to the Citizens, within the law of course.

winston_1

STB wrote: »

/ ***Notice for DVB functions: / This TV is designed to meet the standards (current as of August, 2009) of DVB-T/C/S/S2 (MPEG2 and MPEG4-AVC [H.264]) services. / The compatibility with future DVB services is not guaranteed. / DVB-T MPEG4-AVC broadcast is available in selected countries: Denmark, Spain, Estonia, France, Lithuania, Norway, Slovenia, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, Portugal. / DVB-C feature is available only in following countries: / Sweden (ComHem, Canal Digital), Demark (YouSee), Norway (Canal Digital), Finland (Cable Ready HD), Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands / The country list above is as of January 1st, 2010. / Check the latest information on the available services at the following website (English only): / http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/tv/

NO mention of Ireland! They better not hide behind the operational service. Its been on since 2008 on a test basis. The standard for Ireland was set in February 2008 and finalised in December 2008! Both were also published. Jeez do the manufacturers not have a logged standard for Ireland ???? And I am talking about mandatory inclusion of MHEG5 here!

Does the set off UK a a country in it's setup menu. If so, switching to UK should not stop MPEG4 working and may enable MHEG.

watty

On some UK sets that are Freeview, not FreeviewHD, indeed selecting "UK" does disable MPEG4

The Cush

winston_1 wrote: »

Does the set off UK a a country in it's setup menu. If so, switching to UK should not stop MPEG4 working and may enable MHEG.

Any MPEG-4 TV I've setup doesn't disable the MPEG-4 part with UK setting but with Sony TV's it can disable the VHF analogue tuner part of the TV. Setting to UK will enable MHEG-5 on TVs where it's not available in the Ireland setting.

STB

winston_1 wrote: »

Does the set off UK a a country in it's setup menu. If so, switching to UK should not stop MPEG4 working and may enable MHEG.

Does it offer MHEG by selecting UK. That what you are asking Winston ?

No. Thats the UK or B model which is specific to UK.

The L model doesnt include UK in the country profiles as a result.

The L is apparently an Irish model yet MHP is the default middleware despite CEDA writing to manufacturers in 2008 and despite Panasonic being a member of CEDA releasing a 2010 dvb-t product that fair enough has MPEG4 but incompatible middleware despite MHEG5 being manadatory in our country profile in iDTVs for our spec.

Deedsie

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/4/40pfl8664h_12/40pfl8664h_12_pss_eng.pdf

Is this tv compatible? I still dont know what i am looking at. Sorry to keep asking guys

Volcane

watty wrote: »

On some UK sets that are Freeview, not FreeviewHD, indeed selecting "UK" does disable MPEG4

My brother has a LG 32 Plasma and when UK is selected as country no picture is available on rte channels. The TV has TnT and Boxer labels.

championc

STB wrote: »

Does it offer MHEG by selecting UK. That what you are asking Winston ?

No. Thats the UK or B model which is specific to UK.

The L model doesnt include UK in the country profiles as a result.

The L is apparently an Irish model yet MHP is the default middleware despite CEDA writing to manufacturers in 2008 and despite Panasonic being a member of CEDA releasing a 2010 dvb-t product that fair enough has MPEG4 but incompatible middleware despite MHEG5 being manadatory in our country profile in iDTVs for our spec.

If only Panasonic would wake up to the fact that they can finally release a joint UK and Ireland version. And if only they'd take on board the last line from the MoU of 01 Feb 2010 which quoted Ben Bradshaw, UK Minister as saying "BBC services will continue to be available in Ireland and Irish services continue to be available in Northern Ireland". A Service_Type tweak would open a huge extra potential market for Panasonic.

The Cush

Volcane wrote: »

My brother has a LG 32 Plasma and when UK is selected as country no picture is available on rte channels. The TV has TnT and Boxer labels.

TNT (France) and Boxer (Sweden) are MPEG-2 and will not display the Irish MPEG-4 pictures.

TNT-HD and Boxer certified receivers since April 2008 will be MPEG-4.

Does the TNT HD spec include AAC? If it doesn't then that's an issue.

The Cush

Karsini wrote: »

Does the TNT HD spec include AAC? If it doesn't then that's an issue.

Even though it's part of the spec it has not been tested during the engineering test transmissions.

What make/models are mpeg4 and freesat in 32 that work well aside from the panny's or is there only panny?

watty

The Cush wrote: »

Even though it's part of the spec it has not been tested during the engineering test transmissions.

Likely because they didn't have suitable play-out gear and not a priority.

Even with 2 x PSB Mux, once 2 or 3 of the main channels are HD, it would be attractive to halve the data rate of all the radio and TV sound by using AAC stereo instead of MP2. Almost all "freeview HD" TVs and set-boxes should cope. Similar Audio format to DAB+ or Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM, Mondiale means worldwide in French and Italian)

micratoyota

Hi Have the Sony Kdl32W 5810 Since June Great TV My problem is that BBC 4 has gone and I dont know how to reset it without doing a complete re scan and then sorting out all the channels again. This TV has no box and uses the line direct from the sat dish. Now in the box which i have inthe other room I am able to do a TP scan and get the new settings and bring them forward. Does anyone know how to find and transfer the BBC 4

STB

Karsini wrote: »

Does the TNT HD spec include AAC? If it doesn't then that's an issue.

I keep seeing refrences to AAC its HE AAC.

The audio codecs to be covered in Irish Spec are

MPEG-4 HE AAC Level 4, version 1 (ISO/IEC 14496-3) and

AC3 (Dolby Digital) and Enhanced AC3 (“Dolby Digital Plus”) (ETSI TS 102 366) and

MPEG-1 Layer II (ISO/IEC 11172-3), here only up to 2.0 stereo (Musicam)

STB

Deleted User wrote: »

What make/models are mpeg4 and freesat in 32 that work well aside from the panny's or is there only panny?

The LG Lf7700 range. Michael in Freesat in Fairview has two of them on display.

fat-tony

micratoyota wrote: »

Hi Have the Sony Kdl32W 5810 Since June Great TV My problem is that BBC 4 has gone and I dont know how to reset it without doing a complete re scan and then sorting out all the channels again. This TV has no box and uses the line direct from the sat dish. Now in the box which i have inthe other room I am able to do a TP scan and get the new settings and bring them forward. Does anyone know how to find and transfer the BBC 4

Are you not using the Freesat software on this tv? I agree - it's an excellent set.:)
If you do an install using the UK as your location (you need to input a postcode) you will get the Freesat one week EPG and a sensible layout of channels. This has the side effect of putting the Saorview TV and radio channels in the 800's but it's trivial to move 16 radio and tv channels to positions 1, 2, 3 etc.

I use the Freesat EPG on the set and it automatically found the updated BBC4 location.

watty

STB wrote: »

I keep seeing refrences to AAC its HE AAC.

The audio codecs to be covered in Irish Spec are

MPEG-4 HE AAC Level 4, version 1 (ISO/IEC 14496-3) [AKA AAC+ , casually referred to as AAC] and

AC3 (Dolby Digital) and Enhanced AC3 (“Dolby Digital Plus”) (ETSI TS 102 366) and

MPEG-1 Layer II (ISO/IEC 11172-3), here only up to 2.0 stereo (Musicam) [AKA MP2]

You are quite correct. We are getting Sloppy.



From RTE clarification doc http://rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FTA-DTT-Receiver-Spec.pdf

All IRDs shall be able to receive and decode MPEG4 AVC (H.264) based SDTV and HDTV services,
MHEG5 data services, and DVB subtitling services.
Compared to NorDig Unified 2.0 basic profile specification, the following major additional minimum
requirements and clarifications are applicable for all IRDs:
• MPEG4 HD Level mandatory on all IRDs which among other things includes:

o Video decoding (see chapter 5.2)

ƒ MPEG4 HP@L4 HDTV (observe this includes HP@L3 SDTV)
ƒ MPEG2 SDTV

o Audio decoding (see chapter 5.3)

ƒ HE.AAC Level 4 multi-channel audio and
ƒ Enhanced AC3 (“Dolby Digital Plus”) multi-channel audio and
ƒ MPEG1 Layer 2 stereo audio

o DVB HD Subtitling
o Applicable SI for HD level

• MHEG-5 UK Profile, version 1.06 mandatory on all IRDs IRDs shall include MHEG-5 API UK profile version 1.06 with support of HDTV video as specified in DTG D-Book specification [UK Freeview HD].

later says

5.3.1. Audio format decoding

The IRD shall support monaural (mono), stereo (including joint stereo) and multi-channel (up to 5.1)
audio decoding for:

• MPEG-4 HE AAC Level 4, version 1 (ISO/IEC 14496-3) and
• Enhanced AC3 (“Dolby Digital Plus”) (ETSI TS 102 366) and
• MPEG-1 Layer II (ISO/IEC 11172-3), here only up to 2.0 stereo

The IRD should also support parametric stereo audio decoding for MPEG-4 HE AAC Level 4 (i.e. version 2). (Parametric Stereo (PS) is only applicable for use of MPEG4 HE.AAC version 2 stereo audio and mainly target for use in Radio services, i.e. not applicable for 5.1 or mono audio services
and not applicable for any Enhanced AC3 or MPEG-1 Layer II).

5.3.2. Simultaneous audio format decoding

The IRD shall support audio decoding with at least one audio format at the time, (i.e. some services
are using HE.AAC, some Enhanced AC3 and some others MPEG-1 Layer II).
Observe that some services may have several audio streams, for example with different languages b
the same audio format.

5.3.3. 2-channel audio downmix

The IRD shall support 2-channel Downmix of both HE.AAC and Enhanced AC3 incoming multi-
channel (up to 5.1) stream into a 2 channel output (stereo).
It shall not be required to use external audio (decoder) equipment, like audio home theatre system, f
the MPEG4-services with multi-channel audio. External interfacing equipment (like TV display uni
shall not be required to support more than 2 channel PCM audio within main V/A interface
(HDMI/SCART).
5.3.4. Audio settings from factory default
Factory default shall be that 2-channel down-mix of multi-channel audio for the Main output (HDMI
and SCART).

5.3.5. Variable bitrate

The IRD shall support decoding of variable bitrate of HE.AAC up to level 4 audio stream.

5.3.6. HDMI/SCART audio during digital audio

output
The audio should not be silence in main V/A interface (HDMI/SCART) when outputting digital
(surround) on digital audio interface (SPDIF) interfaces, i.e. it is recommended to continue outputting
2 channel PCM audio in parallel when outputting multi-channel audio (DTS/AC3/AAC/PCM) on the
separate audio interface.

Are they saying then "MPEG4 HE.AAC version 2 stereo audio and mainly target for use in Radio services"


It looks to me like there is some intention that a "Freeview HD" box should work here. The only major difference is that Freeview HD has DVB-T2, and that works on DVB-T anyway...

A Minimum Spec Saorview box will work with basic Freeview (includes MPEG2) but not FreeviewHD as it has DVB-T not DVB-T2 tuner.

So if you think you ever going to get good enough aerial signal from NI after ASO in 2012, get a FreeviewHD box. Wales is already post ASO.

Pangea

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-LE32C530-32-inch-Widescreen-1080p/dp/tech-data/B003EEM1M4/ref=de_a_smtd

Dont think this tv has mpeg 4 does it?

watty

Interesting:
TV bought over a year ago in Aldi. They gave money back.

It's possible ANY TV bought since Oct 2008 might be covered. Even if it not HD and only Analogue!
http://www.techtir.ie/blog/cinocat4/no-dtt-get-money-back

Souriau

fat-tony wrote: »

Are you not using the Freesat software on this tv? I agree - it's an excellent set.:)
If you do an install using the UK as your location (you need to input a postcode) you will get the Freesat one week EPG and a sensible layout of channels. This has the side effect of putting the Saorview TV and radio channels in the 800's but it's trivial to move 16 radio and tv channels to positions 1, 2, 3 etc.

I use the Freesat EPG on the set and it automatically found the updated BBC4 location.

And from 7pm you will get BBC1 HD added to the list automatically on Freesat
BBC1 HD 108
BBC HD 109

championc

Just a question for the knowledgable folk on here in relation to MHEG-5. Am I correct to say the the EPG is driven by it ? If so MachineHead, given the EPG is now up and functioning, what do you get on the Panasonic D25L - or have I got this all wrong (watty / STB) ?


C

fat-tony

The EPG is one part of the data stream transmitted to your TV or STB. The MHEG-5 software, which is a separate stream, is for displaying fancy teletext-type info which could include a programme guide. MHEG is also the foundation of the "Red Button" service on BBC which allows you to watch alternative streams of video when sporting events are presented. You will receive an EPG without MHEG. Most of the cheapie STBs (non-approved ones) won't have MHEG but will display the full 7 day Saorview EPG.

STB

STB wrote: »

I keep seeing refrences to AAC its HE AAC.

The audio codecs to be covered in Irish Spec are

MPEG-4 HE AAC Level 4, version 1 (ISO/IEC 14496-3) and

AC3 (Dolby Digital) and Enhanced AC3 (“Dolby Digital Plus”) (ETSI TS 102 366) and

MPEG-1 Layer II (ISO/IEC 11172-3), here only up to 2.0 stereo (Musicam)

Believe it or not I was actually going to write HE-AAC and then thought "am I being too specific here?"

micratoyota

fat-tony wrote: »

Are you not using the Freesat software on this tv? I agree - it's an excellent set.:)
If you do an install using the UK as your location (you need to input a postcode) you will get the Freesat one week EPG and a sensible layout of channels. This has the side effect of putting the Saorview TV and radio channels in the 800's but it's trivial to move 16 radio and tv channels to positions 1, 2, 3 etc.

I use the Freesat EPG on the set and it automatically found the updated BBC4 location.

Hi when I bought the set in June, I installed the Freesat which i agree is much better but I lost the Rte's and TV3 on the VHF. I live in Cork city so I don't know if Saorview is up and running here. I get my signal from Collins Barracks transmitter via Spur Hill I believe

fat-tony

micratoyota wrote: »

Hi when I bought the set in June, I installed the Freesat which i agree is much better but I lost the Rte's and TV3 on the VHF. I live in Cork city so I don't know if Saorview is up and running here. I get my signal from Collins Barracks transmitter via Spur Hill I believe

Ah yes - the old VHF is turned off when you set it to UK. I would have assumed Cork City is served by DTT. Spur Hill CH45 is on the RTENL list - anyone local confirm this? Now that TV3 has been added, you would have a full complement of national TV stations plus 10 radio channels.

watty

Spur hill is all UHF, TV3 isn't VHF anywhere. Spur Hill is supposed to be DTT
10 Spur Hill Cork 45 66 68 49, H, E # Yes 51.8560, -8.5159

Now it doesn't matter.

Tis Mullaghanish & Maghera that have RTE1 & RTE 2 on VHF for bits of Cork/Kerry/Limerick/Clare.

micratoyota

watty wrote: »

Spur hill is all UHF, TV3 isn't VHF anywhere. Spur Hill is supposed to be DTT
10 Spur Hill Cork 45 66 68 49, H, E # Yes 51.8560, -8.5159

Now it doesn't matter.

Tis Mullaghanish & Maghera that have RTE1 & RTE 2 on VHF for bits of Cork/Kerry/Limerick/Clare.

Am using old chorus line to receive rte's etc but have now tried an old indoor airial and can get a signal though poor so I will now go back and install Freesat. Will I be able to bring the Irish channels from the 800's to 1,2,3 4 . I have a feeling that I read somewhere that you can't move Freesat channels

micratoyota

watty wrote: »

Spur hill is all UHF, TV3 isn't VHF anywhere. Spur Hill is supposed to be DTT
10 Spur Hill Cork 45 66 68 49, H, E # Yes 51.8560, -8.5159

Now it doesn't matter.

Tis Mullaghanish & Maghera that have RTE1 & RTE 2 on VHF for bits of Cork/Kerry/Limerick/Clare.

Hi receiving rte's etc from an old chorus connection. Tried the TV with an old indoor aerial and got poor reception but I know that its there. Will now go and install Freesat, but one question can i move the rte's which I believe are on the 800's to No. 1 etc

Machinehead

championc wrote: »

Just a question for the knowledgable folk on here in relation to MHEG-5. Am I correct to say the the EPG is driven by it ? If so MachineHead, given the EPG is now up and functioning, what do you get on the Panasonic D25L - or have I got this all wrong (watty / STB) ?


C

The only EPG on the D25 is Panasonic's own inbuilt 7 day TV Guide. No fancy MHEG5/Red/Green button services. Pity - at this stage I think Panasonic have given up responding to my emails re software upgrade to activate MHEG5.:(

micratoyota

micratoyota wrote: »

Am using old chorus line to receive rte's etc but have now tried an old indoor airial and can get a signal though poor so I will now go back and install Freesat. Will I be able to bring the Irish channels from the 800's to 1,2,3 4 . I have a feeling that I read somewhere that you can't move Freesat channels

Have installed Freesat starts with 101 BBC but no Irish Channels where am I going wrong. Got option Freesat or DVB-S

micratoyota

micratoyota wrote: »

Have installed Freesat starts with 101 BBC but no Irish Channels where am I going wrong. Got option Freesat or DVB-S

Freesat is satellite, you won't get the Irish channels free on satellite. You need a DVB-T tuner with MPEG-4 support and a suitable UHF aerial.

micratoyota

The Cush wrote: »

PM sent.

You helped me last June with Sony W5810 with full instructions for FTA channels but now Fat Tony says that I should be using Freesat and i should pick up the 16 Saorview digital channels . I have gone back to factory settings and got the option Freesat or DVB-S . Choose Freesat and entered uk postcode. Installed full freesat starting with 101 but no Irish channels.. Can you please help me again.

micratoyota

fat-tony wrote: »

Are you not using the Freesat software on this tv? I agree - it's an excellent set.:)
If you do an install using the UK as your location (you need to input a postcode) you will get the Freesat one week EPG and a sensible layout of channels. This has the side effect of putting the Saorview TV and radio channels in the 800's but it's trivial to move 16 radio and tv channels to positions 1, 2, 3 etc.

I use the Freesat EPG on the set and it automatically found the updated BBC4 location.

Installed Freesat with uk postcode but no Saorview channels. ?????

The Cush

micratoyota wrote: »

You helped me last June with Sony W5810 with full instructions for FTA channels but now Fat Tony says that I should be using Freesat and i should pick up the 16 Saorview digital channels . I have gone back to factory settings and got the option Freesat or DVB-S . Choose Freesat and entered uk postcode. Installed full freesat starting with 101 but no Irish channels.. Can you please help me again.

I don't use the freesat option but have you done a digital terrestrial scan? The DTT scan is seperate to the satellite scan.

Menu - Digital Set-up - Digital Tuning - Digital Auto Tuning (full vhf/uhf scan) or Digital Manual Scan (select channel number to begin scan)
I suggest Digital Auto Tuning.

fat-tony

micratoyota wrote: »

Installed Freesat with uk postcode but no Saorview channels. ?????

The Freesat scan will bring in the BBCs, ITVs,CH4s etc on the satellite connection.
On the terrestrial aerial connection you need to connect an aerial (not the Chorus/UPC cable which will have the RTEs etc on VHF). Whether you need an external aerial or an indoor aerial is dependant on location. You can try The Cush's recommendation to do Digital Auto tuning and it will scan all UHF channels for a DTT signal. As I posted earlier and watty confirmed, CH45 is the first multiplex for DTT from Spur Hill. The TV will automatically store the RTE tv and radio channels in the 800s, and it is easy to move them to 1, 2, 3 or whatever numbering you like. The Freesat channels can't be moved as they are linked to the Freesat EPG.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Interesting:
TV bought over a year ago in Aldi. They gave money back.

It's possible ANY TV bought since Oct 2008 might be covered. Even if it not HD and only Analogue!
http://www.techtir.ie/blog/cinocat4/no-dtt-get-money-back

The ALDI Specialbuys flyer this week has a 19" Tevion TV advertised "with analogue tuner" no mention of digital but does state it has "7 day epg" and "CI slot" that supports the use of an SD card.

With the Saorview DTT name now out there consumers can ask with confidence if the TV they are buying will work with Irish DTT.

watty

The Return under "sales of goods" and EU & Irish Law will apply to Analogue only TVs as they are not fit for purpose
* Don't get all Irish Channels
* Now Analogue will be off in just under two years.

Your "contract" is with shop that sold it and it's deemed reasonable that a TV should last two years at least or it's not "fit for purpose". Over two years ago manufacturers, Distributors and retailer associations were notified of the upcoming Digital TV. It's just the same as if you are sold a UHF only Analogue rather than VHF+ UHF. If it's sold as a TV at all, inside last two years it has to at least support MPEG4 HD reception (downscaling to SD is allowed), HE-AAC sound and DVB-T. The MHEG5 support only applies to TVs sold since end of July 2010, because it wasn't 100% confirmed, though even March 2008, that was very likely so any decent Retailer ought to replace for that also. Lack of Saorview certification isn't an issue. Currently UK "Freeview HD" sets (not "HD Ready" or "Full HD" with "Freeview", which now shouldn't be sold in UK as they will never receive HD in UK without a box) will tick all the boxes and anything French "TNT HD" compatible (i.e. everything except MHEG5) is probably acceptable before August 2010.

STB

watty wrote: »

The Return under "sales of goods" and EU & Irish Law will apply to Analogue only TVs as they are not fit for purpose
* Don't get all Irish Channels
* Now Analogue will be off in just under two years.

Your "contract" is with shop that sold it and it's deemed reasonable that a TV should last two years at least or it's not "fit for purpose". Over two years ago manufacturers, Distributors and retailer associations were notified of the upcoming Digital TV. It's just the same as if you are sold a UHF only Analogue rather than VHF+ UHF. If it's sold as a TV at all, inside last two years it has to at least support MPEG4 HD reception (downscaling to SD is allowed), HE-AAC sound and DVB-T. The MHEG5 support only applies to TVs sold since end of July 2010, because it wasn't 100% confirmed, though even March 2008, that was very likely so any decent Retailer ought to replace for that also. Lack of Saorview certification isn't an issue. Currently UK "Freeview HD" sets (not "HD Ready" or "Full HD" with "Freeview", which now shouldn't be sold in UK as they will never receive HD in UK without a box) will tick all the boxes and anything French "TNT HD" compatible (i.e. everything except MHEG5) is probably acceptable before August 2010.

Watty, it has been mandatory since February 2008. The finalised version in December 2008 made no changes. CEDA members were written to. Panasonic are a member of CEDA and should know better. This can be sorted with firmware in the event that the TV has MHEG5 which is just turned off.

We have been lobbed in with Nordig countries in the L range that panasonic 2010 TVs. Our basic requirements go beyond Nordig standards and includes MHEG5. Perhaps we should be profiled with the UK from now on despite us only using dvb-t for HD.

Either way there rreally is no excuse for all this messing. The weight of a 66million population would change matters but little old Ireland, well we are not big bucks when it comes to TV sales in Europe.

Sponge Bob

Lack of MHEG5 is not a showstopper if they broadcast the 'old' teletext for the next few years as well like they do now. If you can see and hear the thing it is a Television

watty

Selection of "hidden" sport stream not on a Channel Sponge Bob. Other stuff possibly.
green/red button. MHEG5 isn't just the fancy text.

But I agree that the most important is that video and audio work. Since MHEG5 is royalty free though and is tiny CPU overhead what excuse? MHP costs money.

Machinehead

Just sent this to RTÉNL ~ one wonders what kind of response if any I will get in return.

"To Whom It May Concern:

I would appreciate if you could provide me with an answer to the following. At what date did the published document entitled “Minimum Receiver Requirements for Free-to-Air Digital Terrestrial Television for Radio Telefis Éireann” Version 1.0 Issue 1 Date: 2008-12-19 become mandatory/compulsory for manufacturers offering IRD televisions/set top boxes for sale in the Republic of Ireland?"

The Cush

Machinehead wrote: »

Just sent this to RTÉNL ~ one wonders what kind of response if any I will get in return.

"To Whom It May Concern:

I would appreciate if you could provide me with an answer to the following. At what date did the published document entitled “Minimum Receiver Requirements for Free-to-Air Digital Terrestrial Television for Radio Telefis Éireann” Version 1.0 Issue 1 Date: 2008-12-19 become mandatory/compulsory for manufacturers offering IRD televisions/set top boxes for sale in the Republic of Ireland?"

Interesting question . Looking forward to the reply.

I suspect you will get a reply similar to this - The Minimum Receiver Requirements is the minimum specification required for DTT receivers being submitted by manufacturers to Teracom for Saorview conformance testing prior to Saorview certification.

Machinehead

Crush, I figure you just read the mind of someone at RTÉNL or perhaps work for them on the QT.

The Cush

Machinehead wrote: »

Crush, I figure you just read the mind of someone at RTÉNL or perhaps work for them on the QT.

I wish. If I did I probably wouldn't be posting here

jonnygee

Would i be correct in thinking that any saorview sets sold here from now on will actually be freeview hd sets with a soarview sticker added. Is it correct that freeview hd sets can do saorview but offical saorview sets (current specs.) cant recieve freeview hd, so for eventual freeview hd overspill current saorview spec sets wont be enough.

The Cush

jonnygee wrote: »

Would i be correct in thinking that any saorview sets sold here from now on will actually be freeview hd sets with a soarview sticker added.

No, any DTT receiver carrying the Saorview certified logo has been independently tested by Teracom and conforms to the Saorview spec. Saorview certified receivers could also be freeview or freeview-HD certified, TNT France certified, TDT Spain certified etc. etc.

jonnygee wrote: »

Is it correct that freeview hd sets can do saorview but offical saorview sets (current specs.) cant recieve freeview hd, so for eventual freeview hd overspill current saorview spec sets wont be enough.

Saorview certified receivers could also be freeview only certified or freeview-HD certified, it will depend on which tuner is installed DVB-T or DVB-T2. Freeview-HD receivers will receive the Irish DTT channels and are used by some members here. (just to add to the confusion some freeview only certified receivers are also MPEG-4 and can display the Irish channels but not the freeview HD ones)

If you live in an overspill area a Saorview/freeview-HD certified TV (none available yet) or freeview-HD certified will be required to receive both services incl MHEG-5 for digital text/red button.

Saorview = DVB-T/MPEG-4/MHEG-5
Freeview = DVB-T/MPEG-2/MHEG-5
Freeview-HD = DVB-T2/MPEG-4/MHEG-5

DVB-T2 is backwards compatible with DVB-T
MPEG-4 is backwards compatible with MPEG-2