Higher education Access routes. HEAR / DARE 2010!!

christina_x

GA361 wrote: »

SCANDALOUS :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
The points thing is an outrage.The financial aid is fine.But giving extra points. . :mad::mad::mad:That just p!sses me off.Damn double-standards:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:.

i got the HEAR grant last year. It doesnt effect you getting into college. There are places set asside for HEAR students, and those places must then be filled, we dont take any places away from other students, there are no more/less places available for you than there would be if there was no HEAR programme

christina_x

wasssuuup wrote: »

BTW I'm not looking for a debate here about if its unfair etc.(i think its very fair)
I can qualify for the HEAR programme. Ive read a lot of info. about it but I'm wondering does anybody know how far off you can be from a course when you apply through HEAR? Is there a set amount or what? And how much of a grant are we talking about?
thanks

it depends on the college and how close your living to the college.
Im from Donegal and am in NUIG and got 750. As far as i can remember the ones that were from galway city got 500 or so.
And then my friend in UCD got 500 or so (i think)

christina_x

Mario007 wrote: »

thats one reason why i don't like the access programme, i mean i signed up for iit but i dont like the idea of being put into a college even if i didn't get the points for the course, which is completly destroying the points system.

well then to make yourself feel better, get the points on your own. Just use the programme for the grant.
Thats what i did! Sure its great getting reduced points, but its not the same as knowing you did it on your own. But.. at the end of the day, if you do get the course on reduced points, youl be very glad for them!

wasssuuup

christina_x wrote: »

it depends on the college and how close your living to the college.
Im from Donegal and am in NUIG and got 750. As far as i can remember the ones that were from galway city got 500 or so.
And then my friend in UCD got 500 or so (i think)

ok thanks finally a straight answer....
and do you know about the points? how far off can you be?...

theowen

wasssuuup wrote: »

ok thanks finally a straight answer....
and do you know about the points? how far off can you be?...

10-20%

phasers

wasssuuup wrote: »

BTW I'm not looking for a debate here about if its unfair etc.(i think its very fair)
I can qualify for the HEAR programme. Ive read a lot of info. about it but I'm wondering does anybody know how far off you can be from a course when you apply through HEAR? Is there a set amount or what? And how much of a grant are we talking about?
thanks

You can get a reduction of between 10-20% of your course's points.

I'm getting the grant this year and HEAR students receive between 1100-1300 euro, I'm not sure what qualifies you to get more. You can also qualify for subsidised on campus accommodation sometimes

jrk92

phasers how do you know it is 1100-1300 euro this year?? ppl tell me.. if I have an exceptional family situation and I would like to speak with someone from HEAR where should I send my email? to cao or to college??

phasers

jrk92 wrote: »

phasers how do you know it is 1100-1300 euro this year?? ppl tell me.. if I have an exceptional family situation and I would like to speak with someone from HEAR where should I send my email? to cao or to college??

Well on the "Orientation week" we had the woman told me.

Check here for contact information: http://www.accesscollege.ie/hear/contact.php
Also speak to your school's career guidance counsellor.

My application went through Trinity (Which I think are the central body of it but I'm not sure) so maybe contact them and ask where to go with it.

stainluss

If someone gets enough points to get in normally and they have applied through HEAR, do the just get a normal space as if they had not appied through HEAR? (and not one of the 15% allocated to HEAR?)

Crow92

Afaik if there's 5 places set aside for students on HEAR on a particular course and there's 20 people looking for the course on the HEAR programme then the 5 with the highest points get the places,

i.e it could be 5 students who got 490 instead of 500 and they'd get in,
There's no set numbers of points reduced it's down to the demand.

stainluss

Crow92 wrote: »

Afaik if there's 5 places set aside for students on HEAR on a particular course and there's 20 people looking for the course on the HEAR programme then the 5 with the highest points get the places,

i.e it could be 5 students who got 490 instead of 500 and they'd get in,
There's no set numbers of points reduced it's down to the demand.

Yes but if one of those got more than 500, would they be given one of the HEAR places or one of the other 15??

theowen

Crow92 wrote: »

Afaik if there's 5 places set aside for students on HEAR on a particular course and there's 20 people looking for the course on the HEAR programme then the 5 with the highest points get the places,

i.e it could be 5 students who got 490 instead of 500 and they'd get in,
There's no set numbers of points reduced it's down to the demand.

stainluss wrote: »

Yes but if one of those got more than 500, would they be given one of the HEAR places or one of the other 15??

Email them sure, doubt anyone would actually know on here.

jrk92

what does Indicator 3 mean?( in Application Guide): it says: 'Your family receives a means-tested social assistance payment.' can anyone explain it for me? it is related with social welfare but what exactly? I don't get this term: means-tested..

theowen

jrk92 wrote: »

what does Indicator 3 mean?( in Application Guide): it says: 'Your family receives a means-tested social assistance payment.' can anyone explain it for me? it is related with social welfare but what exactly? I don't get this term: means-tested..

The dole? I'm sure there's others too.

almostnever

jrk92 wrote: »

what does Indicator 3 mean?( in Application Guide): it says: 'Your family receives a means-tested social assistance payment.' can anyone explain it for me? it is related with social welfare but what exactly? I don't get this term: means-tested..

Not sure which social welfare payments it refers to,but "means tested" means that social welfare payments based on income etc are the ones it includes. For example,the unemployment benefit or jobseekers allowance. Non means tested social welfare would be something like child benefit,because everybody gets it regardless of income. AFAIK,there are other criteria to be assessed and considered as far as means testing goes,but there's a rough outline for you.

Foxx92

christina_x wrote: »

it depends on the college and how close your living to the college.
Im from Donegal and am in NUIG and got 750. As far as i can remember the ones that were from galway city got 500 or so.
And then my friend in UCD got 500 or so (i think)

I assume thats 750 euro total, not per month?

pecker1992

this has to be said

im not reffering to anyone in particular but lets say for example a young girl from a bad area gets knocked up and both parents are unsupportive social welfare etc.... why does she not deserve extra points just because she didnt have the time to study does not mean she cudnt if she had the chance but you see it fit that she should not get the course beacuse while you were studying and getting good rest she was up alll nite with a baby winging and lactched onto her..let me say this some of you have a lot of growing up to do before you go to college!!

stainluss

pecker1992 wrote: »

this has to be said

im not reffering to anyone in particular but lets say for example a young girl from a bad area gets knocked up and both parents are unsupportive social welfare etc.... why does she not deserve extra points just because she didnt have the time to study does not mean she cudnt if she had the chance but you see it fit that she should not get the course beacuse while you were studying and getting good rest she was up alll nite with a baby winging and lactched onto her..let me say this some of you have a lot of growing up to do before you go to college!!

Wow emmm...thats a pretty specific case :rolleyes:

The conversation was more about HEAR in general.. The vast vast majority (Probably >99%) of HEAR applicants arent 'knocked up', just have poorer families.

I can safely say im not disadvantaged (im using broadband and watching sky as i type this), yet i still qualify.

Its not fair, but im hardly going to turn down the help, that would just be plain rude;):p

pecker1992

stainluss wrote: »

Wow emmm...thats a pretty specific case :rolleyes:

The conversation was more about HEAR in general.. The vast vast majority (Probably >99%) of HEAR applicants arent 'knocked up', just have poorer families.

I can safely say im not disadvantaged (im using broadband and watching sky as i type this), yet i still qualify.

Its not fair, but im hardly going to turn down the help, that would just be plain rude;):p

true that....if your lucky enough to find 50 euro on the ground even id youve 1000 in your pocket your still picking it up!!:cool:

ClassicCiars

I think the general idea behind HEAR is very good i mean i see no problem with extra support being given to those who need it whether it be financial or social . However I can see some unfairness in it . I go to a school where the majority of students do qualify for here and when I say majority I mean myself and about 5 others dont qualify, I was in biology the other day and complained how I was not going to do well in June and another girl turned round and said "neither am I but with the HEAR point reduction it wont matter" ....I fail to see how these girls can all get the exact same education as me , sit in the same classes , be given the same notes and simply because my family earns more money than theres they get onto the same cousrse for less points .
My sister studied her ass off for her leaving a few years ago and and got 515 which was 5 points short of the course she was looking at and a girl in her class got 460 and got into the course...she got every opportunity my sister got , my sister did better than her and again for the simple reason we earn a little more than they do my sister lost out , how is that fair ?

I agree that there is a need for support in education to help those who truly need it but sometimes it seems a little unfair

felic

what? Are you telling me this scheme is a blanket scheme across the board on all places available? or is it a case of say a small percentage of places are made available for disadvantaged background people?

This seems a bit odd to be honest. Especially in todays economic climate. I mean, if this scheme is giving students who's parents are unemployed a greater chance of getting into a highly sought after university course, that will encourage parents to just sign on the dole for the year their kid is doing the Leaving! That may seem crazy but thats what would happen.

My God... this government is so badly ran! All these ideas that are just not well thought out and simply employing a pass the parcel approach to the crisis we're actually in!

theowen

felic wrote: »

what? Are you telling me this scheme is a blanket scheme across the board on all places available? or is it a case of say a small percentage of places are made available for disadvantaged background people?

This seems a bit odd to be honest. Especially in todays economic climate. I mean, if this scheme is giving students who's parents are unemployed a greater chance of getting into a highly sought after university course, that will encourage parents to just sign on the dole for the year their kid is doing the Leaving! That may seem crazy but thats what would happen.

My God... this government is so badly ran! All these ideas that are just not well thought out and simply employing a pass the parcel approach to the crisis we're actually in!

That would never happen. A main point of the HEAR scheme is to assist those in disadvantaged schools. For instance, last year a large number of my classes were mixed with pass and honours students. A slight disadvantage, especially when the teacher is incompetent. There was also no after school study until two months before the leaving, and at that it was only an hour and a half long. ^Must be taken into account.

felic

but every student in the country will tell you about an incompetent teacher and a class full of messers.
I do think everyone has the right to get into university, but that comes in teh form of grants which is a separate discussion. Actual fiddling with points earned in these exams? Someone already complained in another thread about Nepotism in relation to interviews for college places. Here you go with yet another example. whats the cut off for the criteria? Makes a mockery of the entire points system.

kenzedd

You're all totally misunderstanding the "point reduction" system. You CANNOT just get less points and get a course because you applied NOR does any HEAR applicant take a space in the course that would otherwise be provided to somebody who did get enough points.

An example:
You want to do biochemical science. The points are 430. You get 370, but you got A1s in both Biology and Chemistry, and got a B2 in honours math, but didn't do well in other subjects as they're not logic-based, and that's not where your strength lies. HEAR will offer you a place because you are capable of successfully completing the course and gaining a qualification. If you don't do well in the relevant subjects, you wont get it, but may be offered a different course on your CAO that is more relevant to your grades.

Your space in that class is offered as an extra placement, it will not effect the amount of points the course is, take somebody's would-be course placement or anything else like that.

I have a friend who applied and got his course this way. Both his parents are split and unemployed. In his leaving cert. year he had to be the provider for the family and take up a job and work every day outside of school hours. And it's completely fair, if he didn't work they'd be living on donations and because of the work he had no time to study. If this program wasn't offering this he'd still be working, not capable of getting a college education.

Frankly people with more money have less issues to deal with and will have an easier time in schooling at that age, just because there are different stresses and pressures on people based on the influences of money.

It is genuinely for people who have capability but their social background is a huge limiting factor. My friend is not an isolated case. They don't just hand out points to every person who doesn't feel like working hard enough to get their course.

Aside from this the point system is already a farce, so saying this is a mockery of the system is irrelevant. Firstly the Board of education has a "Grade quota" system, so they will always get a number of A1s, A2s, etc. that they want in a particular year, giving it to people who might not deserve it or lowering the grade of somebody who does because they think they have enough A1s. Secondly, The points change depending supply and demand, not difficulty, or capability. That alone is stupid. If anything the courses should be grade based, and then the supply and demand should be on colleges, to hire new professors and build new facilities.

This is why the HEAR program exists. It evaluates people based on capability (capability that is limited due to circumstances), and frankly, the whole system should work based on capability.

The___________

kenzedd wrote: »

You're all totally misunderstanding the "point reduction" system. You CANNOT just get less points and get a course because you applied NOR does any HEAR applicant take a space in the course that would otherwise be provided to somebody who did get enough points.

An example:
You want to do biochemical science. The points are 430. You get 370, but you got A1s in both Biology and Chemistry, and got a B2 in honours math, but didn't do well in other subjects as they're not logic-based, and that's not where your strength lies. HEAR will offer you a place because you are capable of successfully completing the course and gaining a qualification. If you don't do well in the relevant subjects, you wont get it, but may be offered a different course on your CAO that is more relevant to your grades.

Your space in that class is offered as an extra placement, it will not effect the amount of points the course is, take somebody's would-be course placement or anything else like that.

I have a friend who applied and got his course this way. Both his parents are split and unemployed. In his leaving cert. year he had to be the provider for the family and take up a job and work every day outside of school hours. And it's completely fair, if he didn't work they'd be living on donations and because of the work he had no time to study. If this program wasn't offering this he'd still be working, not capable of getting a college education.

Frankly people with more money have less issues to deal with and will have an easier time in schooling at that age, just because there are different stresses and pressures on people based on the influences of money.

It is genuinely for people who have capability but their social background is a huge limiting factor. My friend is not an isolated case. They don't just hand out points to every person who doesn't feel like working hard enough to get their course.

Aside from this the point system is already a farce, so saying this is a mockery of the system is irrelevant. Firstly the Board of education has a "Grade quota" system, so they will always get a number of A1s, A2s, etc. that they want in a particular year, giving it to people who might not deserve it or lowering the grade of somebody who does because they think they have enough A1s. Secondly, The points change depending supply and demand, not difficulty, or capability. That alone is stupid. If anything the courses should be grade based, and then the supply and demand should be on colleges, to hire new professors and build new facilities.

This is why the HEAR program exists. It evaluates people based on capability (capability that is limited due to circumstances), and frankly, the whole system should work based on capability.

Hear Hear!;)

It's cases like your friends that Hear was designed for, I'll be applying for hear as my mum and dad have a very low combined income,mainly I'm hoping for the extra financial assistance as I will not need any extra points.(Hopefully)

shamoono

Hi guys,
I really want to know what were the average points of the students who got into medicine in UCD, TCD, UCC etc... last year through the Higher Education Access Route.
I tried calling the colleges and I got the same reply from every single one of them: Try to get the best you can.
I just want to find out if I have the slightest chance to get in to medicine this year. I'm guessing I'll be able to get 660 points(last year's entry points were 720)
Can anyone out there tell me if they(or their friends) got in to medicine through HEAR and how many points did they have to get in...

stainluss

shamoono wrote: »

Hi guys,
I really want to know what were the average points of the students who got into medicine in UCD, TCD, UCC etc... last year through the Higher Education Access Route.
I tried calling the colleges and I got the same reply from every single one of them: Try to get the best you can.
I just want to find out if I have the slightest chance to get in to medicine this year. I'm guessing I'll be able to get 660 points(last year's entry points were 720)
Can anyone out there tell me if they(or their friends) got in to medicine through HEAR and how many points did they have to get in...

I dont think hear do medicine?

Its a restricted course, so to speak.

theowen

stainluss wrote: »

I dont think hear do medicine?

Its a restricted course, so to speak.

They do actually:p

jumpguy

kenzedd wrote: »

Your space in that class is offered as an extra placement, it will not effect the amount of points the course is, take somebody's would-be course placement or anything else like that.

However, if there was not this reserved space for HEAR students, wouldn't there be more space for the general CAO student and hence less points for everyone (albeit not the massive reduction you get for HEAR, but it's availiable for everyone). Is that a correct or incorrect statement?

stainluss

jumpguy wrote: »

However, if there was not this reserved space for HEAR students, wouldn't there be more space for the general CAO student and hence less points for everyone (albeit not the massive reduction you get for HEAR, but it's availiable for everyone). Is that a correct or incorrect statement?

Correct statement, but you would be talking 10-20pts on large courses (e.g. commerce, arts) and about 0-5 pts on most