Higher education Access routes. HEAR / DARE 2010!!

stainluss

theowen wrote: »

They do actually:p

Really:) I have it on my cao, dont think i did too well in the HPAT

SarcasticFairy

jumpguy wrote: »

However, if there was not this reserved space for HEAR students, wouldn't there be more space for the general CAO student and hence less points for everyone (albeit not the massive reduction you get for HEAR, but it's availiable for everyone). Is that a correct or incorrect statement?

You could say the same for the places allocated for mature students...

There are places allocated because they're minority groups... I looked into this last year, and as such, the details are slightly hazy, but isn't it something like 5-10% of places are kept for all non-traditional students? That includes HEAR, mature students, possibly people who deferred, and whoever else (though, this is all AFAIK, and not solid fact >_<)... That'd leave maybe 3 HEAR places, on an average ~100 place course. That would make almost no difference to the points on an any way popular course (considering most of them; Law, Science, Med, Commerce, etc, normally end up on random selection from groups of people with the same points...).

And you'd still have disadvantaged people not going to college, which is the entire point of the scheme.

If you wanna go argue the other way, while it might be some what unfair to give these 2/3 people (per course) point reductions, it's also unfair that everyone does not receive the same standard of education. The scheme attempts to restore the balance. There's never going to be a completely fair way to do that.

unknown13

stainluss wrote: »

Correct statement, but you would be talking 10-20pts on large courses (e.g. commerce, arts) and about 0-5 pts on most

It depends on the course. It is alot more in than those figures. Up to 60 points in NUIM, 50-100 points in TCD and I don't know what it is in UCD.

SarcasticFairy

unknown13 wrote: »

It depends on the course. It is alot more in than those figures. Up to 60 points in NUIM, 50-100 points in TCD and I don't know what it is in UCD.

I think he was talking about the difference it would make if there was no HEAR, not the reductions HEAR students get....

theowen

stainluss wrote: »

Correct statement, but you would be talking 10-20pts on large courses (e.g. commerce, arts) and about 0-5 pts on most

Where did you find them figures? I know of someone who got 120 points off a med course two years ago and I got 45 points off science in trinners. It's an average of 10-20%, not 3% or whatever you were talking about:p

theowen

SarcasticFairy wrote: »

I think he was talking about the difference it would make if there was no HEAR, not the reductions HEAR students get....

Ah!:rolleyes:

stainluss

theowen wrote: »

Where did you find them figures? I know of someone who got 120 points off a med course two years ago and I got 45 points off science in trinners. It's an average of 10-20%, not 3% or whatever you were talking about:p

I know you can get LOADS off, i was replying to someone on about how much points would go down if there were NO HEAR

But i didnt know 120 points was possible, thats some ****ing discount, was that before HPAT?

Is it true that the HEAR applicant with highest points below the points needed will get the reduced points place??(i.e. HEAR applicants compete with each other on points, not circumstances once they qualify?)

theowen

stainluss wrote: »

I know you can get LOADS off, i was replying to someone on about how much points would go down if there were NO HEAR

But i didnt know 120 points was possible, thats some ****ing discount, was that before HPAT?

Is it true that the HEAR applicant with highest points below the points needed will get the reduced points place??(i.e. HEAR applicants compete with each other on points, not circumstances once they qualify?)

Yup, once your qualified it's the HEAR applicant with the highest points, as far as I know anyway!

Before the HPAT yup^.

shamoono

stainluss wrote: »

Really:) I have it on my cao, dont think i did too well in the HPAT

Cool, me too. How many points are you expecting to get?

shamoono

theowen wrote: »

Where did you find them figures? I know of someone who got 120 points off a med course two years ago and I got 45 points off science in trinners. It's an average of 10-20%, not 3% or whatever you were talking about:p

hey, dunno about this but would anyone agree that since 2 years 120 point were taken off medicine. Assuming that a person would get one of the highest scores of around 200 in the HPAT and give they would get at least 560 point.
Now taking away the 120 from the sum of(560+200) you would get 640.

On the assumption, you could expect someone to get into medicine through HEAR with 640 points. Well, around there.

slownightsolong

im panicking (sp?) now, What if the other people who have hear get more points than me and beat me too my course when I could have got the points anway for general applicants?

kenzedd

jumpguy wrote: »

However, if there was not this reserved space for HEAR students, wouldn't there be more space for the general CAO student and hence less points for everyone (albeit not the massive reduction you get for HEAR, but it's availiable for everyone). Is that a correct or incorrect statement?

Not quite. The amount of spaces HEAR has for a course is relative to how many people are taking it. For instance, a huge number of people take Arts, (points aren't high because there are also a lot of normal placements though), so HEAR placements are extremely low in Arts courses, generally. Only the highest scoring HEAR applicants will get the few spots, and those people would have also gotten enough points to get in without HEAR.

If you look at the example of medicine in the above posts, you'll see what I mean. That person is still going to have to score full marks, and then some, and they still might not get it.

However, courses which don't fill completely, like many of the sciences, are given more HEAR spaces, because, otherwise, they'd be empty.

HEAR does not just bypass the point system. It operates in co-ordination with it.

Because the point system works on supply and demand, having more HEAR applicants in a course wont change the number of points. The fact is that with high point courses, people using HEAR will still have to get the points, because they are competing with each other and the normal applicant, and with lower point courses there are going to be vacancies either way.

HEAR isn't about having to score less points. HEAR's main purpose is to offer support to people who need it. Lots of people apply to HEAR, get the points, and take another HEAR applicant's place because that person didn't get the points. The placements aren't just for people who don't get enough points, they are for any HEAR applicant. HEAR applicants are people with limiting backgrounds, not a group of lazy under-achievers who want an easy way in, are not willing to work hard enough.

Does that make sense when you read it? It makes sense to me because I know what I'm trying to say, but I'm not sure if everybody will understand it... It's a bit jumbled...

stainluss

shamoono wrote: »

Cool, me too. How many points are you expecting to get?

I dunno, the HPAT messed everything up:p

In the LC alone im hoping for 540, bit low 4 medicine, i doubt id get in..

What about u?

theowen

stainluss wrote: »

I dunno, the HPAT messed everything up:p

In the LC alone im hoping for 540, bit low 4 medicine, i doubt id get in..

What about u?

I think that'd be enough with the HEAR. How d'ya think you did in the HPAT?

stainluss

theowen wrote: »

I think that'd be enough with the HEAR. How d'ya think you did in the HPAT?

Not as well as i thought i would (practice one was waaaay easier!)

I actually believed them when they said you cant study, and didnt go to a prep course..

Turns out the people who went to the €100/€200 prep course didnt find it as hard, they said it prepared them well:( I gave them a piece of my mind on that survey;):p

Id say about 140/150 if im lucky..

Did you do it? How did ya think you did?

shamoono

stainluss wrote: »

I dunno, the HPAT messed everything up:p

In the LC alone im hoping for 540, bit low 4 medicine, i doubt id get in..

What about u?

well, i'm hoping to get 550, i am repeating this year and got a bit side tracked because i started work and now i am panicking too p.s. I am just studying at home. I have just started the business course without a teacher and have to learn everything off in one month. I got 170 in last year's HPAT and did it again this year.

And don't worry 540 is well enough for medicine through HEAR with HPAT score of like 130. Highest HPAT score last year was in the 200 hundreds.

I am starting to study my ass off.

theowen

stainluss wrote: »

Not as well as i thought i would (practice one was waaaay easier!)

I actually believed them when they said you cant study, and didnt go to a prep course..

Turns out the people who went to the €100/€200 prep course didnt find it as hard, they said it prepared them well:( I gave them a piece of my mind on that survey;):p

Id say about 140/150 if im lucky..

Did you do it? How did ya think you did?

Yeah I'd say 540 with that HPAT score would be grand! I got 155 last year and I'm hoping I'll go up a bit this year. I'd say 530+ would be ok (impossible to know for sure though).

theowen

shamoono wrote: »

well, i'm hoping to get 550, i am repeating this year and got a bit side tracked because i started work and now i am panicking too p.s. I am just studying at home. I have just started the business course without a teacher and have to learn everything off in one month. I got 170 in last year's HPAT and did it again this year.

And don't worry 540 is well enough for medicine through HEAR with HPAT score of like 130. Highest HPAT score last year was in the 200 hundreds.

I am starting to study my ass off.

Only started studying business now. Wow...

shamoono

theowen wrote: »

Only started studying business now. Wow...

LOL everyone says that. I started chemistry just 2 months ago and now have the course finished and learning by heart now.

stainluss

shamoono wrote: »

started studying business

Just write out the main points of each chapter and youll be grand, 60% of it is never gonna come up, its just filler:)

stainluss

theowen wrote: »

Yeah I'd say 540 with that HPAT score would be grand! I got 155 last year and I'm hoping I'll go up a bit this year. I'd say 530+ would be ok (impossible to know for sure though).

Is there many med HPAT places going? Like for a course with ~99 students?

I heard it was 5% or is it 10%? Im not sure :P

shamoono

stainluss wrote: »

Just write out the main points of each chapter and youll be grand, 60% of it is never gonna come up, its just filler:)

ahhhh thanks man, I gotta just go over the....whatcha call 'em..... I think it's the key questions there called, like define, illustrate etc. Getting some notes from a mate he got like 90% for it in tha mocks

how did the mocks go for you?

stainluss

shamoono wrote: »

how did the mocks go for you?

Pretty well, i was happy with them, got 81% in business:)
How about you?

Does anybody know if you can find out what points reduction last year's HEAR applicants got for a particular course??

Or do we just have to guess 10-20%?

theowen

stainluss wrote: »

Pretty well, i was happy with them, got 81% in business:)
How about you?

Does anybody know if you can find out what points reduction last year's HEAR applicants got for a particular course??

Or do we just have to guess 10-20%?

You could email one of the HEAR dudes. A friend of mine got 500 last year and didn't get psychology which was a surprise. Would have only been a 10% drop!

unknown13

stainluss wrote: »

Just write out the main points of each chapter and youll be grand, 60% of it is never gonna come up, its just filler:)

Why would you encourage someone to do that. Business isn't a short course, it is actually quite a long course.

Stainluss, do you do Business.

stainluss

unknown13 wrote: »

Why would you encourage someone to do that. Business isn't a short course, it is actually quite a long course.

Stainluss, do you do Business.

I know, even when you write out the main points, its still a long course!

I do business:rolleyes:do you?

When i say main points, i include main points on each topic and advantages/disadvantages of each topic...

I find studying out of the book difficult, this helped me for the mocks

kenzedd

stainluss wrote: »

Pretty well, i was happy with them, got 81% in business:)
How about you?

Does anybody know if you can find out what points reduction last year's HEAR applicants got for a particular course??

Or do we just have to guess 10-20%?

It depends on your own personal grades in the relevant subjects. If you got just below enough points for a science course, but you did badly in your sciences, you wont be offered the course. Vice versa, you got As in them and did badly in other subjects, and perhaps even scored less points, you will get the reduction because you are capable, as long as it is a reasonable amount.

stainluss

kenzedd wrote: »

It depends on your own personal grades in the relevant subjects. If you got just below enough points for a science course, but you did badly in your sciences, you wont be offered the course. Vice versa, you got As in them and did badly in other subjects, and perhaps even scored less points, you will get the reduction because you are capable, as long as it is a reasonable amount.

I though the points go to the highest scoring applicants (i.e. points-wise?) under the req. points to get a point reduction?

theowen

kenzedd wrote: »

It depends on your own personal grades in the relevant subjects. If you got just below enough points for a science course, but you did badly in your sciences, you wont be offered the course. Vice versa, you got As in them and did badly in other subjects, and perhaps even scored less points, you will get the reduction because you are capable, as long as it is a reasonable amount.

Indeed, where did you see this?

kenzedd

theowen wrote: »

Indeed, where did you see this?

I was told by the HEAR reps at UCC.

stainluss wrote: »

I though the points go to the highest scoring applicants (i.e. points-wise?) under the req. points to get a point reduction?

Not always. What grades you get in which subjects are important. The HEAR scheme is based around people having capability in given subjects. If you didn't get enough points to get into a business course, and you don't take any business subjects, the course will not be offered to you singly on the basis that you scored more points than other applicants. However if somebody takes 3 business subjects, gets As in them but scored less points than you, it would be offered to them because they've shown they are capable of completing their business course.

HEAR does not hand out courses to people with no aptitude for them. There's no point giving a service to somebody who will drop out of their course, a service which could have been given to somebody with more ability in that area.

Take note that, generally speaking, people who scored higher points got better grades in their subjects and people also pick courses based on the subjects they've chosen in secondary. So, normally, yes, the point reduction would normally go to the highest scoring people under the required points because they're also taking the right subjects. That is, if the places hasn't been filled by people who got enough points.

The system isn't black and white. It's an overall evaluation of a student with many factors taken into account.