BER referal fees.

No6

brianmacl wrote: »

One small problem:there are no stats to back this up! no one knows what effect, if any, a better BER rating will have on the value of property. people can make assumptions but can they be backed up with stats.

If an estate agent says to you that you need a BER and there is a list of people that can do it.

Now Assessor A cost €400, but is very precise.
Assessor B costs €200, which allows €200 extra for marketing. With the €200 you can get in a photographer, stats show that a property is 3 times more likely to be viewed by a potential purchaser with pro quality pics, it is 50% more likely to be sold in the same amount of time as similar property.

Which would an average person choose? stats help make an arguement.

Not yet but there will be, give if a few months and there will be stats comming back, it will be very interesting to see what happens to similar houses with different ratings. You are probably right for the short term the 200 would be better (from the sellers perspective) in their pocket but you know the old saying penny wise pound foolish!!:D If getting a poor rating even knocked 1% off the value of a 200,000K house its still 2K not 100 or 200 euro!!! and while it may not effect someone selling today it will effect the buyer in the future.:eek:

No6

Oh and thats not even taking into consideration the Carbon tax aspect which is comming down the tracks, personally I think in a few years the Carbon emmissions value on the cert will be an even more important figure that the A of B Rating!!!

brianmacl

No6 wrote: »

Not yet but there will be, give if a few months and there will be stats comming back, it will be very interesting to see what happens to similar houses with different ratings. You are probably right for the short term the 200 would be better (from the sellers perspective) in their pocket but you know the old saying penny wise pound foolish!!:D If getting a poor rating even knocked 1% off the value of a 200,000K house its still 2K not 100 or 200 euro!!! and while it may not effect someone selling today it will effect the buyer in the future.:eek:

professional pictures give a precieved increase in value of approx 7.5%. the best option may be to get the pictures and the better BER. But look on myhome.ie or daft.ie and try guess how many houses have pro quality pics (a trick would be looking at whether the verticals are true and if the windows appear over exposed). now that will give you an idea of how many people are happy to go for the cheaper BER.

No6

brianmacl wrote: »

professional pictures give a precieved increase in value of approx 7.5%. the best option may be to get the pictures and the better BER. But look on myhome.ie or daft.ie and try guess how many houses have pro quality pics (a trick would be looking at whether the verticals are true and if the windows appear over exposed). now that will give you an idea of how many people are happy to go for the cheaper BER.

Brian I don't doubt what you are saying, as assessors what I think we have to do is to get people to realise that a accurate survey and assessment giving a better rating will improve the value just like professional photo's and yes I agree a crap photo isn't going to help sell your house.

brianmacl

with all due respect, I don't have a clue what you are trying to say here!

Estate agents cannot carry out BER's on their own properties.

The owner of the property tends to pay for the BER.

If an EA looks for commission/ referal fee of 15% then the assessor charges €200 and gives the EA €30 in cash

The EA does not pay you 85%

Also it is the law that anone offering a property for sale should have a BER cert for that property and there is a possibility of a €5k fine if they don't have it (I don't think that this is currently enforcable).

MEONLY wrote: »

Brian, they are not selling the properties(or very slowly) therefore they are not going to have any property assessed until the last moment possible.

All estate agents that I know have no fleas on them or if they have they are dead ones.

Put your calcs above in reverse i.e. 15% - a little over €200. Now ask -are these agents going to hand over 85% to an assessors for properties that are NOT sold and may not be sold for years.
Some of the Certs might be out of date again before these properties are sold.

Your model above sounds like the "Tiger" remains roaring. Alas he has been speared to death and is being sold off as cocktail sausages to the lowest bidder.

As you know I've been sussing out this agent/ assessor situation. The reality is that agents are not selling anything worth sh.., especially in rural Ireland. Assessments coming from agents would be nothing more than a very slowly dripping tap, at best.

I am not going down the road of the lowest bidder even if that means losing the assessment & with the info you kindly directed me to in previous posts, I will stay well clear of commission/bulk/referral, whatever its called.

Some of the amounts that are being quoted for assessments in these threads are crazy and I doubt that these people will not last the course. However I would be very slow to criticize them. I do'nt know their circumstances or the financial pressure they are under. Good luck to them if they make it.

I've learned the hard way over the last 20 years that one is better not to get a contract than to be working for nothing and or a loss.

One way or the other I'm not going to starve but whatever amount I might get will be done properly. It might pay for a few pints I have at the weekend.

I think many people will drop out and perhaps myself included. It will take a few years to settle down.

How many young people can afford to wait this long is the burning question?
Sorry for this long rant. I'm not used to these forums.
Should I/we have moved to the new forum and is this one finished?

brianmacl

No6 wrote: »

Brian I don't doubt what you are saying, as assessors what I think we have to do is to get people to realise that a accurate survey and assessment giving a better rating will improve the value just like professional photo's and yes I agree a crap photo isn't going to help sell your house.

I am in aggreement people should get the best assessment carried out and pro photos but they don't!! So why would they pay for an accurate assessment over a cheap assessment and photos or just a cheap assessment leaving an extra €100 or €200 in their pocket?

No6

brianmacl wrote: »

I am in aggreement people should get the best assessment carried out and pro photos but they don't!! So why would they pay for an accurate assessment over a cheap assessment and photos or just a cheap assessment leaving an extra €100 or €200 in their pocket?

And it will be everyone else's fault when they don't get the price they imagined they would get!!!!

MEONLY

No6 wrote: »

Brian I don't doubt what you are saying, as assessors what I think we have to do is to get people to realise that a accurate survey and assessment giving a better rating will improve the value just like professional photo's and yes I agree a crap photo isn't going to help sell your house.

Lads I personally dont buy into this whole idea of getting a "better rating" for anyone. I believe that an assessors job is to give an "impartial assesssment" and do it "professionally" based on the evidence.

Now one can debate the "professional" idea till kingdom come.

A professional is someone who gets paid for doing a good job e.g. A prostitute.
I believe that the tag "professional" is for others to award to me,(or otherwise) based on their judgement of my work. It will be earned.

The "impartial" bit is different however. Any "organising" of a better rating and "impartial" goes out the door.

Selling the property is the auctioneers job. No concern of the assessor. A good auctioneer can rubbish or embellish the importance of the rating anyway,regardless of the rating. Brian knows how this can be done.

This is where the Advisory Report kicks in. Through this one can genuinely and professionally organise a better rating, if the owner requires and naturely at a price.

Bottom line the assessor can stand over his/her assessment and in the long term his/her credability will be enhanched. The chancers organising "better ratings" will be found out and will not last the course. We have a very well educated population and in time they will suss all this out.

brianmacl

MEONLY wrote: »

Lads I personally dont buy into this whole idea of getting a "better rating" for anyone. I believe that an assessors job is to give an "impartial assesssment" and do it "professionally" based on the evidence.

I did an assessment the other day, where there was unusual insulation in the cieling, now if there is no insulation the house will get an F but if there is about 100mm of decent insuation it will get a D. I have mailed SEI about how to treat this insulation, further more, I have advied the owner that if the SEI do not accept this type of insulation that they could replace it if they wish to get a D rating and I would hold of on putting Assessment until it was done and I could clarriffy the work has been carried out.

Now a not as good assessor may have counted it as no insulation and just given them an F

No6

MEONLY wrote: »

Lads I personally dont buy into this whole idea of getting a "better rating" for anyone. I believe that an assessors job is to give an "impartial assesssment" and do it "professionally" based on the evidence.

Now one can debate the "professional" idea till kingdom come.

A professional is someone who gets paid for doing a good job e.g. A prostitute.
I believe that the tag "professional" is for others to award to me,(or otherwise) based on their judgement of my work. It will be earned.

The "impartial" bit is different however. Any "organising" of a better rating and "impartial" goes out the door.

Selling the property is the auctioneers job. No concern of the assessor. A good auctioneer can rubbish or embellish the importance of the rating anyway,regardless of the rating. Brian knows how this can be done.

This is where the Advisory Report kicks in. Through this one can genuinely and professionally organise a better rating, if the owner requires and naturely at a price.

Bottom line the assessor can stand over his/her assessment and in the long term his/her credability will be enhanched. The chancers organising "better ratings" will be found out and will not last the course. We have a very well educated population and in time they will suss all this out.

Meonly While you are getting some of my point your missing a big lump of it. I am saying accurate rating, assessing whats there rather than relying on defaults, getting the owner to provide the information on any improvements they have made rather than say you don't have it and you're not paying me enough tough and going with the default again, Thats not "organising" a better rating, thats just doing it correctly and professionally and is completely impartial. At the end of the day the assessor has to be able to stand over his assesmnent and have the paperwork to back him up. Selling the property is not the concern of the assessor it is the concern of the owner and if you do an inaccurate assessment and rely on defaults you will get a worse rating which may effect the value. The advisory report is generic rubbish read one and yes its the chancers I am giving out about, they will if not dealt with quickly ruin the system for everyone else!

MEONLY

brianmacl wrote: »

with all due respect, I don't have a clue what you are trying to say here!


The EA does not pay you 85%

Sorry brian I did'nt explain fully. I took it as a gimme that we all know who actually pays. The EA's were the ones you referred to as having the properties on their books etc

Also it is the law that anone offering a property for sale should have a BER cert for that property and there is a possibility of a €5k fine if they don't have it quote]


"(I don't think that this is currently enforcable).[/"
Hence the last moment possible before getting the assessment done.

brianmacl

MEONLY wrote: »

brianmacl wrote: »

with all due respect, I don't have a clue what you are trying to say here!


The EA does not pay you 85%

Sorry brian I did'nt explain fully. I took it as a gimme that we all know who actually pays. The EA's were the ones you referred to as having the properties on their books etc

Also it is the law that anone offering a property for sale should have a BER cert for that property and there is a possibility of a €5k fine if they don't have it quote]


"(I don't think that this is currently enforcable).[/"
Hence the last moment possible before getting the assessment done.

They may have 50 properties on their books but they want maybe €30 per person that they ring and tell to phone you.

They would push BERs a lot more if they got money out of it as it costs them nothing. They don't care if it has the rating at the start of marketing or at the last possible moment.

MEONLY

No6 wrote: »

Meonly While you are getting some of my point your missing a big lump of it. I am saying accurate rating, assessing whats there rather than relying on defaults, getting the owner to provide the information on any improvements they have made rather than say you don't have it and you're not paying me enough tough and going with the default again, Thats not "organising" a better rating, thats just doing it correctly and professionally and is completely impartial. At the end of the day the assessor has to be able to stand over his assesmnent and have the paperwork to back him up. Selling the property is not the concern of the assessor it is the concern of the owner and if you do an inaccurate assessment and rely on defaults you will get a worse rating which may effect the value. The advisory report is generic rubbish read one and yes its the chancers I am giving out about, they will if not dealt with quickly ruin the system for everyone else!

We are in complete agreement on the issue. You put it more elequent than I.
What bugs me is the way so many people writes about and gives the impression that there are two ways to do an assessment properly (professionaly). There is one way and you have described it in above quote. If assessors are lazy then it is not a professional assessment. My understanding from my training course is that what you described above should be standard practice and best practice. Every reasonable effort made to validate info rather than default etc.

One thing I would say is that I do'nt see anyway that chancers will be dealt with quickly, no matter what way people might try to do it.
Litigation issues would take forever. The public sussing them out will likewise take years.
Unfortunately some damage will have to be accepted and I suppose it will be put down to teething problems.

MEONLY

brianmacl wrote: »

MEONLY wrote: »

They may have 50 properties on their books but they want maybe €30 per person that they ring and tell to phone you.

They would push BERs a lot more if they got money out of it as it costs them nothing. They don't care if it has the rating at the start of marketing or at the last possible moment.

Sorry brian this is too doggy for me.

Its not for the EA's to push BER's. As you have previously stated, its a legal requirement.

When someone wants money for nothing then its money for Jam. There are no free lunches.

Of course they dont care but the owner selling the property might not want to hand over his "childrens inheritance" without first having a buyer in sight.

brianmacl

MEONLY wrote: »

brianmacl wrote: »

Sorry brian this is too doggy for me.

Its not for the EA's to push BER's. As you have previously stated, its a legal requirement.

When someone wants money for nothing then its money for Jam. There are no free lunches.

Of course they dont care but the owner selling the property might not want to hand over his "childrens inheritance" without first having a buyer in sight.

Whether it is doggy or not, it is what some EA's are looking for despite the fact that they are being advised not too.

If the law was written right it kinf of would be for EA's to push, as they have the properties up for sale and are acting as agents to the home owner. So they kind of should be telling sellers and land lords to get it done because they could be fined just as fast as the owner of the proeprty.

It kind of isn't a legal requirement due to the fact that the law is badly written.

I still don't get what you are saying about inheritance and money for Jam.

People who are selling are, in a lot of case, already forking out €500 to put the property up on the market for advertising, printing and other things in advance an extra €200-400 isn't going to rob the childrens inheritance and when SEI eventualy get their finger out and start enforcing the Legislation (probably after it gets amended), people will pay the money at the very start.

No6

We are in complete agreement on the issue. You put it more elequent than I.
What bugs me is the way so many people writes about and gives the impression that there are two ways to do an assessment properly (professionaly). There is one way and you have described it in above quote. If assessors are lazy then it is not a professional assessment. My understanding from my training course is that what you described above should be standard practice and best practice. Every reasonable effort made to validate info rather than default etc.

This is why some of us are banging on and on to the point of utter boredom about it, to achieve the standard required an assessor has to spend a cetain minimum amount of time doing it which should be fairly reflected in the fee charged.

One thing I would say is that I don't see anyway that chancers will be dealt with quickly, no matter what way people might try to do it.
Litigation issues would take forever. The public sussing them out will likewise take years.
Unfortunately some damage will have to be accepted and I suppose it will be put down to teething problems.

Maybe when a few sellers get G ratings and shoot a few chancer assessors because they've lost a fortune people might get the message!!!:D