LoI Close Season Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2008-09

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pablomakaveli wrote: »

Looks like a switchover to a new system for paying wages is the reason for Citys wages being late last week.

er...bollox.

they weren't paid because a company that went into examinership because they couldn't pay wages then proceded to employ further staff, on full time wages.

Where the fúck the money was supposed to come from I have no idea, because the company had no viable income that I could see.

Truth is that them wages, when eventually paid, came from Tom Coughlan's pocket.

How many more times is he going to do that?

Cork City should be immediately demoted for this, the fact that they haven't been, and the obvious head-in-sands approach from you and other City fans, speaks volumes about the FAI, the attitude of Cork City fans, the club and the arseholery that goes on in the LoI.

The fact that a teams players have gone without wages paid on time even before the season starts is ominous for the season ahead.

What a joke that you would come on here and even attempt to justify it.

Get your head out of the sand son, your club is on extremely thin ice, and another examinership is on the cards, your club is about to go the way of so many Cork franchises before it.

UCD, at the very least, shoud be playing PD football this season.

pablomakaveli

Des wrote: »

er...bollox.

they weren't paid because a company that went into examinership because they couldn't pay wages then proceded to employ further staff, on full time wages.

Where the fúck the money was supposed to come from I have no idea, because the company had no viable income that I could see.

Truth is that them wages, when eventually paid, came from Tom Coughlan's pocket.

How many more times is he going to do that?

Cork City should be immediately demoted for this, the fact that they haven't been, and the obvious head-in-sands approach from you and other City fans, speaks volumes about the FAI, the attitude of Cork City fans, the club and the arseholery that goes on in the LoI.

The fact that a teams players have gone without wages paid on time even before the season starts is ominous for the season ahead.

What a joke that you would come on here and even attempt to justify it.

Get your head out of the sand son, your club is on extremely thin ice, and another examinership is on the cards, your club is about to go the way of so many Cork franchises before it.

UCD, at the very least, shoud be playing PD football this season.

Don't talk down to me "son".

I was stating what was said in the article which followed my comment. I'm sick of this kind of ****e that's been going on at City. I was willing to give Coughlan the benefit of the doubt when he came in but i and a lot of City fans a starting to wonder what the **** the man is doing.

And by the way you need to sort your ****ing attitude out buddy and learn not to make false assumptions about other people. :mad:

SectionF

Des wrote: »

UCD, at the very least, shoud be playing PD football this season.

That's uncalled for.

gimmick

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Looks like a switchover to a new system for paying wages is the reason for Citys wages being late last week.

Unfortunately that is 100% incorrect.

CiaranC wrote: »

AFAIK, they were paid by electronic transfer last month. This is the second month theyve been paid monthly. The money was due on the Wednesday, if it was just a "hitch" then why was it not sorted till the following Monday? Sounds like a load of bollox to me.

This is incorrct also. They were paid by cheque last month. After 4pm on the last friday of the month :rolleyes:

Quint

Des wrote: »

...arseholery...

Great word btw!

LeixlipRed

It's at the stage now that Cork City could be represented by a team of knife wielding monkeys and the FAI would refuse to relegate them in an attempt to keep the attendance average up. So beyond a joke now that I've stopped caring or taking an interest in it. Totally sours the start of the new season. I'm not even remotely excited about Friday to be honest.

stovelid

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/thomond-dream-hides-real-issues-1659416.html

I like the article picture btw; looks like Cantwell is struggling to put up with what JD is saying.

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According to Fran Gavin, the cumulative LOI debt has halved to €3.5m, a statement he made back in November.

''Last year (2007), the total was €7m. This year, that is projected for €3.5m. Next year, the clubs will be debt-free," said

Seriously.

What fúcking planet does this guy live on?

Does he actually expect people with even half a brain to believe this utter shíte?

Clubs will be debt free by next year?

Yet more bluff and bluster from Abbotstown, you are fooling nobody lads.

The National League is in shíte, and all your lies won't stop that.

Anto McC

I read that earlier and i must admit, it's a smashing article.

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Anto McC wrote: »

I read that earlier and i must admit, it's a smashing article.

be careful Anto, the "journalist" that wrote it.

He probably made half of it up.

LeixlipRed

I love it. "Projected loss". Super stuff Fran. Hitler "projected" the Third Reich would last 1000 years.

SectionF

Easy pickings for the Herald. But what millions has FAI poured into the league?

stovelid

Des wrote: »

be careful Anto, the "journalist" that wrote it.

He probably made half of it up.

Decent enough article. Even the Herald can have a monkey and typewriter moment every now and again.

djpbarry

SectionF wrote: »

Easy pickings for the Herald. But what millions has FAI poured into the league?

Was thinking that myself.

djpbarry

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I love it. "Projected loss". Super stuff Fran. Hitler "projected" the Third Reich would last 1000 years.

To be fair, this sort of speak comes from UEFA:

Future financial information shall be prepared and submitted by the licence applicant, consisting of:
a) A budgeted profit and loss account;
b) A budgeted cash flow; and
c) Explanatory notes including assumptions and risks and comparison of budget to actual figures.
The future financial information shall be based on assumptions that are not unreasonable and meet the minimum disclosure requirements defined by this manual.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/358508.pdf

Gavin "shels"

According to Fran Gavin, the cumulative LOI debt has halved to €3.5m, a statement he made back in November.

''Last year (2007), the total was €7m. This year, that is projected for €3.5m. Next year, the clubs will be debt-free," said

Examinership ftw.:rolleyes:

elshambo

Des wrote: »

Get your head out of the sand son, your club is on extremely thin ice, and another examinership is on the cards, your club is about to go the way of so many Cork franchises before it.

Corks next club:
Cork Hotspurs for the 2011 A championship
For the 2012 Division 1
For "greatest fans in world" tm 2013
For the dole office 2015

elshambo

stovelid wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/thomond-dream-hides-real-issues-1659416.html

"You can walk a finger down the list of LOI clubs and only a handful will get through the season without financial trauma."

You could say that about most clubs in most leagues around the world at the moment in fairness!

stovelid

elshambo wrote: »

"You can walk a finger down the list of LOI clubs and only a handful will get through the season without financial trauma."

You could say that about most clubs in most leagues around the world at the moment in fairness!

I agree, but the immediate consequences of financial trauma with gates that rarely rise above 2-3k and no Sky honey pot, are far more life-threatening.

gimmick

elshambo wrote: »

Corks next club:
Cork Hotspurs for the 2011 A championship
For the 2012 Division 1
For "greatest fans in world" tm 2013
For the dole office 2015

We live in hope :rolleyes:

stovelid

elshambo wrote: »

Cork Hotspurs for the 2011 A championship

Cork Houdinis FC would have a nice ring to it.

elshambo

stovelid wrote: »

I agree, but the immediate consequences of financial trauma with gates that rarely rise above 2-3k and no Sky honey pot, are far more life-threatening.

No question
Its just you would swear that every other football club in the world is a fortune 500 company(Circa 2007 ) the way they write about LOI clubs finances sometimes

An awful lot of lower league clubs in England/Scotland are surviving month to month

elshambo

stovelid wrote: »

Cork Houdinis FC would have a nice ring to it.

Na; Houdini tended to get out of the trouble he got himself in without too much hastle:rolleyes:

djpbarry

stovelid wrote: »

elshambo wrote: »

"You can walk a finger down the list of LOI clubs and only a handful will get through the season without financial trauma."

You could say that about most clubs in most leagues around the world at the moment in fairness!

I agree, but the immediate consequences of financial trauma with gates that rarely rise above 2-3k and no Sky honey pot, are far more life-threatening.

I think we’re talking about clubs outside the Sky catchment here, such as those in Latvia, where FK Riga were recently declared bankrupt, and Lithuania, where the likes of Kaunas and Vetra have released a load of players in order to break even. There are similar stories throughout Europe.

SectionF

You don't have to be a devotee of FAI to see the need to think beyond the totally staged Herald and other media outrage that clubs are screwed and there is an official fudge.

• National and transnational media hypes football based on profit-driven EPL winner-takes-all model
• National leagues in many countries (including England outside EPL) suffer economically as a result. Attendances in Ireland are paltry and the game is practically ignored and frequently derided by media.
• Rugby, in which Ireland enjoys a radically different competitive advantage and a more even spread of resources, organizes on a European level (at the expense of national league). An Irish club playing at European level prospers to the point that it can rebuild Thomond.
• National league, in survival mode, stumbles from one financial crisis to the next
• National media hypocritically screams blue murder at the ineptitude of FAI, while applauding a tournament, organized by rugby, of EPL and global brand football clubs, to take place during the home league's season.

Let's have some positive suggestions from these wise-asses. Do they want the FAI to close clubs down? What other measures do they propose, apart from, as we have seen lately, the shameful abolition of the national league?

stovelid

elshambo wrote: »

No question
Its just you would swear that every other football club in the world is a fortune 500 company(Circa 2007 ) the way they write about LOI clubs finances sometimes

An awful lot of lower league clubs in England/Scotland are surviving month to month

djpbarry wrote: »

I think we’re talking about clubs outside the Sky catchment here, such as those in Latvia, where FK Riga were recently declared bankrupt, and Lithuania, where the likes of Kaunas and Vetra have released a load of players in order to break even. There are similar stories throughout Europe.

Fair enough. I'm sick of the negative press too.

Just because it's happening elsewhere doesn't mean we shouldn't expect the authorities here to impose the proper sanctions though.

elshambo

stovelid wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm sick of the negative press too.

Just because it's happening elsewhere doesn't mean we shouldn't expect the authorities here to impose the proper sanctions though.

I do not see where either of us said we should let things slide!:)

stovelid

elshambo wrote: »

I do not see where either of us said we should let things slide!:)

Fair enough.

The press are guilty of ignoring/ridiculing the league, but realistically, they are never going to ignore domestic mismanagement, no matter if it's also an issue in other countries.

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

You don't have to be a devotee of FAI to see the need to think beyond the totally staged Herald and other media outrage that clubs are screwed and there is an official fudge.

• National and transnational media hypes football based on profit-driven EPL winner-takes-all model
• National leagues in many countries (including England outside EPL) suffer economically as a result. Attendances in Ireland are paltry and the game is practically ignored and frequently derided by media.
• Rugby, in which Ireland enjoys a radically different competitive advantage and a more even spread of resources, organizes on a European level (at the expense of national league). An Irish club playing at European level prospers to the point that it can rebuild Thomond.
• National league, in survival mode, stumbles from one financial crisis to the next
• National media hypocritically screams blue murder at the ineptitude of FAI, while applauding a tournament, organized by rugby, of EPL and global brand football clubs, to take place during the home league's season.

Let's have some positive suggestions from these wise-asses. Do they want the FAI to close clubs down? What other measures do they propose, apart from, as we have seen lately, the shameful abolition of the national league?

Don't close clubs down - just make them scale back to amateur / part - time football. No more full - time professionals, slash costs.

djpbarry

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Don't close clubs down - just make them scale back to amateur / part - time football. No more full - time professionals, slash costs.

Scaling back to an amateur set-up would effectively kill the league. Besides, it’s not necessary. A club with an average gate of 2,000 should be capable of comfortably supporting a profitable, semi-pro set-up. The question is, how do we get the average gate up to 4,000? Or 8,000?

LuckyLloyd

djpbarry wrote: »

Scaling back to an amateur set-up would effectively kill the league. Besides, it’s not necessary. A club with an average gate of 2,000 should be capable of comfortably supporting a profitable, semi-pro set-up. The question is, how do we get the average gate up to 4,000? Or 8,000?

Why would it effectively kill the league? Is the league living right now?

Would you stop attending games if your club only had amateur or part time players representing you? What percentage of fans do you think would walk away?

Pighead

Dundalk get the results back from FIFA tomorrow regarding the status of their new pitch. 99% that they'll pass it but still they're leaving it very late. Would get very messy if they failed it what with the Bohs match on 24 hours later.

Quint

Even if the pitch failed the FAI would do nothing and let them play in the premier.

Pighead

Quint wrote: »

Even if the pitch failed the FAI would do nothing and let them play in the premier.

Only because they're afraid of Maxi.

stovelid

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why would it effectively kill the league? Is the league living right now?

Would you stop attending games if your club only had amateur or part time players representing you? What percentage of fans do you think would walk away?

Your analysis always seems to suggest that you envisage the league staying completely amateur forever.

The core problem is attracting new fans. For that to happen you have to walk the line between creating the best possible team you can afford, but not paying out stupid money that your gates cannot sustain.

The pay of the players should be predicated on what you bring in, for sure, but the long-term vision should be to bring more people in.

For bigger clubs at least, a decent core of subscription paying members, gates of 2K, fund raising, and exploitation of community funding and grants should be enough to support some kind of semi-pro (with emphasis on semi) setup.

The problem is, as you know, when one or more clubs insist on driving up wages and cheating. Hence the need for strict regulation from above.

Paulw

stovelid wrote: »

The core problem is attracting new fans. For that to happen you have to walk the line between creating the best possible team you can afford, but not paying out stupid money that your gates cannot sustain.

The bringing in of new fans seems to be the biggest issue. They are just not getting consistently large attendances at matches. It's not that there are not enough people in the caption area for each club, it just seems that people don't have a large enough interest in attending LOI games.

Not sure how exactly that can be resolved.

djpbarry

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Would you stop attending games if your club only had amateur or part time players representing you? What percentage of fans do you think would walk away?

As stovelid says, the issue is getting new fans in. As difficult as that is in a semi-pro environment, it would be next to impossible for an amateur league. If you want to attract new fans, you need a decent standard of football. If you want a decent standard of football, you have to pay the players. Besides, as I already stated, scaling back to an amateur set-up is not necessary.

SectionF

djpbarry wrote: »

Scaling back to an amateur set-up would effectively kill the league. Besides, it’s not necessary. A club with an average gate of 2,000 should be capable of comfortably supporting a profitable, semi-pro set-up. The question is, how do we get the average gate up to 4,000? Or 8,000?

Semi-pro, with an ambition and a roadmap towards full-time pro, is where the league probably should be right now, in order to differentiate it from LSL etc.
I have nothing against amateurism per se, but opting for some sort of purity on that model, when other sports and leagues stay pro, is a sure way to cement negative prejudices, and is equally as foolhardy as the let's conquer Europe brigade.
Ultimately, it's not about the structures, it's about the culture of live football as part of our sporting landscape.

LuckyLloyd

stovelid wrote: »

Your analysis always seems to suggest that you envisage the league staying completely amateur forever.

The core problem is attracting new fans. For that to happen you have to walk the line between creating the best possible team you can afford, but not paying out stupid money that your gates cannot sustain.

The pay of the players should be predicated on what you bring in, for sure, but the long-term vision should be to bring more people in.

For bigger clubs at least, a decent core of subscription paying members, gates of 2K, fund raising, and exploitation of community funding and grants should be enough to support some kind of semi-pro (with emphasis on semi) setup.

The problem is, as you know, when one or more clubs insist on driving up wages and cheating. Hence the need for strict regulation from above.

djpbarry wrote: »

As stovelid says, the issue is getting new fans in. As difficult as that is in a semi-pro environment, it would be next to impossible for an amateur league. If you want to attract new fans, you need a decent standard of football. If you want a decent standard of football, you have to pay the players. Besides, as I already stated, scaling back to an amateur set-up is not necessary.

Good responses. And I concede, if teams would simply live within their realistic means from season to season there is no doubt that the league would be currently viable as a semi - professional endeavor.

Can those that repeatedly break the rules be driven from the game though? And can the FAI ever be trusted to competently regulate the whole thing?

I remember a while back GuanYin asked whether the MLS system of centralized contracting of players might be an idea with some merit. But again, the credibility of the FAI and powers that be is so shot to pieces as to probably make it unworkable.

You are right when you say I have a very pessimistic outlook on the league. However, I think that it is far, far too unstable at the moment for talk of moving forward, attracting new fans and becoming bigger / better to be justified. For me, the current focus should be on achieving some solidity to the whole thing - so that the discussion can fully shift to what happens on the pitch.

djpbarry

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Can those that repeatedly break the rules be driven from the game though? And can the FAI ever be trusted to competently regulate the whole thing?

The problem with regulation is that the FAI take their lead from UEFA and, as I pointed out in an earlier post, their financial stipulations are rather vague. The heavyweights don’t want regulation and they will continue to lobby UEFA to this end. In such an environment, forcing clubs to adhere to stringent financial criteria is going to be difficult when their chief competitors (i.e. British clubs) operate on a laissez-faire basis. That’s not to say that the FAI cannot do more to get their shop in order.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

…I think that it is far, far too unstable at the moment for talk of moving forward, attracting new fans and becoming bigger / better to be justified. For me, the current focus should be on achieving some solidity to the whole thing - so that the discussion can fully shift to what happens on the pitch.

Absolutely. Let’s get every club turning a profit (or at least breaking even) and then we can talk about moving forward. I’m not terribly optimistic about this though – you’re always going to have a Mr. Coughlan or Mr. Gannon who wants to plough money into a club and there’s very little that can be done to prevent that, unless UEFA make sweeping changes with regard to how football clubs should be governed.

Xavi6

Apparently the seat plan has been decided upon for the next stand in Tallaght.

Image

djpbarry

Garreth O'Connor has apparently signed for Pats.

More reports of unpaid wages at Cork:

eleven-a-side.com wrote:

Cork City’s preparations for the start of the new League of Ireland season have been dealt a blow after two players were hit with wage cuts this week – without consenting to the measure.

The unnamed duo were finally paid outstanding wages on Monday afternoon, only to find that their pay was markedly less than expected.

According to a report in the Irish Daily Star, a pay-cut has effectively been imposed on the pair despite no such agreement being in place.

The players had discussed wage reductions with Cork owner Tom Coughlan in recent weeks but, in conjunction with the Professional Footballers’ Association of Ireland, had failed to approve the measures.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/loi/news.asp?n=36015

What the hell are they playing at down there?

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Why are Cork City being allowed to do this?

Here is what will happen.

They'll stumble on for the season, missing payments, then when they can no longer win the league, and are about 20 points from relegation, will go into examinership, take a ten point hit, and just carry on again.

It's ok folks, in Cork you don't have to pay wages.

You don't get punished.

The fúcking players though, fúck 'em.

They don't have kids, they don't have mortgages.

That club is a fúcking shambles, the league is a fúcking shambles, the FAI is a shambles.

Fúcking jokeshop league, kicking off tomorrow.

djpbarry

Des wrote: »

Why are Cork City being allowed to do this?

Here is what will happen.

They'll stumble on for the season, missing payments, then when they can no longer win the league, and are about 20 points from relegation, will go into examinership, take a ten point hit, and just carry on again.

From this season onwards, the penalty for going into examinership will be an automatic 30 - 40 point deduction, depending on how much debt is repaid.

Should also point out that this is an apparently unconfirmed report from the Star.

20 Times 20 Times

Des you going to the match tomorrow ?

Cork were allowed to sign two players that Dundalk were close to signing this was because they offered more wages.

LeixlipRed

Des wrote: »

Why are Cork City being allowed to do this?

Here is what will happen.

They'll stumble on for the season, missing payments, then when they can no longer win the league, and are about 20 points from relegation, will go into examinership, take a ten point hit, and just carry on again.

It's ok folks, in Cork you don't have to pay wages.

You don't get punished.

The fúcking players though, fúck 'em.

They don't have kids, they don't have mortgages.

That club is a fúcking shambles, the league is a fúcking shambles, the FAI is a shambles.

Fúcking jokeshop league, kicking off tomorrow.

Cúnts

Jeez, don't be so negative.

gimmick

Des wrote: »

Why are Cork City being allowed to do this?

Here is what will happen.

They'll stumble on for the season, missing payments, then when they can no longer win the league, and are about 20 points from relegation, will go into examinership, take a ten point hit, and just carry on again.

It's ok folks, in Cork you don't have to pay wages.

You don't get punished.

The fúcking players though, fúck 'em.

They don't have kids, they don't have mortgages.

That club is a fúcking shambles, the league is a fúcking shambles, the FAI is a shambles.

Fúcking jokeshop league, kicking off tomorrow.

Cúnts

Ahahahahahaha

20 Times 20 Times

Gimmick I don’t understand this perception that you have that it’s just Shelbourne fans that are negative about how things are run in cork/Fai. I think all LOI fans agree that Cork are a farce at this point and are getting away with irregularities in their finances and signing players they can’t afford , I for one am disgusted at this.

djpbarry

Sarge wrote: »

I think all LOI fans agree that Cork are a farce at this point and are getting away with irregularities in their finances....

Assuming reports in the media are accurate, that is.

gimmick

Sarge wrote: »

Gimmick I don’t understand this perception that you have that it’s just Shelbourne fans that are negative about how things are run in cork/Fai. I think all LOI fans agree that Cork are a farce at this point and are getting away with irregularities in their finances and signing players they can’t afford , I for one am disgusted at this.

Ya, its a nonsense, but I think some of the posts here are very funny. If it were another club, I certainly would not be losing any sleep over it, let alone my temper.