Kevin Myers Action

carlybabe1

bean wrote: »

id say that it has something to do with the fact that the water supplies in these places dry up and appear somewhere else and living beside a mosquito ridden putrid water source with wild animals nearby isnt healthy

And again....move..

Caoimhín

carlybabe1 wrote: »

And again....move..

One cant move a tent and a family of 23 when one is riddled with the AIDS...

carlybabe1

stovelid wrote: »

Mad Africans.

Why wouldn't they want to live right beside a river.

Sheer laziness.

Touche...;)
However, I dont think that image is a fair representation of africa,
for starters your mans shorts look far too hip and trendy, not to mention expensive

bean

carlybabe1 wrote: »

Ok so shift the balance by telling us what it has brought to the world? And I dont think that the spouting of a journalist is going to spread hatred, confirm what oher people are secretly thinking maybe, but I dont think its going to suddenly induce racism in a rational person...maybe I'm niave

Yep, true. Its not like he invented this kind of tirade. Its not going to change the heart and minds of all the people who read it but there are a few folk out there who will see it as gospel

4zn76tysfajdxp

Caoimhín wrote: »

One cant move a tent and a family of 23 when one is riddled with the AIDS...

Don't get AIDS then. Does this really need to be spelt out to people?

pablomakaveli

Kevin myers is just another one of many delibrately controversial columnists. These guys try to be as contreversial as possible to sell more papers which in turn earns them more money. If you don't like him don't buy the paper.

And for people who are talkin ****e about suicide being selfish get a bit of cop on. If someone is pushed to a point where they want to take their own life they are obviously suffering incredible pain or stress. I hardly doubt someone would make that decision just to hurt the people who care about them. That kind of attitude is only going to discourage suicidal people from coming forward and getting help.

Caoimhín

Tenley Powerful Shelter wrote: »

Don't get AIDS then. Does this really need to be spelt out to people?

FFS, Why these people cant buy bottled water in Tesco is beyond me. And i know they are poor, but thats what Lidl and Aldi are for.

bean

carlybabe1 wrote: »

And again....move..

perhaps into a warzone or into a city scape that has no employment food or shelter or into a the midst of ethnic cleansing war or perhaps back to another ridden dangerous putrid water supply

Caoimhín

bean wrote: »

perhaps into a warzone or into a city scape that has no employment food or shelter or into a the midst of ethnic cleansing war or perhaps back to another ridden dangerous putrid water supply

Mmm, your thinking of Ballymun...

bean

Caoimhín wrote: »

Mmm, your thinking of Ballymun...

picture..?

bean

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Kevin myers is just another one of many delibrately controversial columnists. These guys try to be as contreversial as possible to sell more papers which in turn earns them more money. If you don't like him don't buy the paper.

And for people who are talkin ****e about suicide being selfish get a bit of cop on. If someone is pushed to a point where they want to take their own life they are obviously suffering incredible pain or stress. I hardly doubt someone would make that decision just to hurt the people who care about them. That kind of attitude is only going to discourage suicidal people from coming forward and getting help.

I agree, i dont read the paper but i heard it everywhere and couldnt ignore it. I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

Edit: The same should be said for Mr Myers assessment of those who have killed themselved

Sharpshooter

Caoimhín wrote: »

Mmm, your thinking of Ballymun...

bean wrote: »

picture..?

They used them all for roll ups.

4zn76tysfajdxp

bean wrote: »

I agree, i dont read the paper but i heard it everywhere and couldnt ignore it. I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

Edit: The same should be said for Mr Myers assessment of those who have killed themselved

But why did you complain to the paper?

qwertplaywert

In the end though, it all comes down to Freedom of Speech- he has exercised his, just like you are excising yours right now.

bean wrote: »

I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

I dislike the sound of that. One man's true is another man's lie. Let people who voice one opinion have their say, and let people who voice another have theirs.


Btw I agree with many of you, Myers is[and has in the past] just stirring up controversy for sales.

bean

all of them?

bean

qwertplaywert wrote: »

In the end though, it all comes down to Freedom of Speech- he has exercised his, just like you are excising yours right now.



I dislike the sound of that. One man's true is another man's lie. Let people who voice one opinion have their say, and let people who voice another have theirs.


Btw I agree with many of you, Myers is[and has in the past] just stirring up controversy for sales.

Thought about that too, i believe that he has had his say in the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world and how all suicides are selfish, i also believe that the statements have no truth in it and are not fit for publishing.

XJR

bean wrote: »

I think that the statement that africa has only brought aids to the world has such gravity and has been spread so much on such a popular mainstream media that everything to say that this statement is untrue should be done

If there's going to be a discussion about it lets at least get it right; what he said was . .

They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

He is in fact trying to make a broader point which it seems is being missed, his second paragraph give a clue when he says:

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country?

He does however go on to explain that this thought is tempered by both his conscience and the imagery or "another wide-eyed child".

The real point of his article is to question why the west should pour money into countries when it is not really improving them but is instead he says perpetuating the current situation.

I am not saying I agree with what he has to say however there's no point in selectively misquoting him, the article should be looked at in it's entirety rather than distilled to a selective misrepresentation.

qwertplaywert

bean wrote: »

are not fit for publishing.

But who gets to decide that?

bean

XJR wrote: »

If there's going to be a discussion about it lets at least get it right; what he said was . .

They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

He is in fact trying to make a broader point which it seems is being missed, his second paragraph give a clue when he says:

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country?

He does however go on to explain that this thought is tempered by both his conscience and the imagery or "another wide-eyed child".

The real point of his article is to question why the west should pour money into countries when it is not really improving them but is instead he says perpetuating the current situation.

I am not saying I agree with what he has to say however there's no point in selectively misquoting him, the article should be looked at in it's entirety rather than distilled to a selective misrepresentation.

I agree with the idea that countries should not pour money blindly into corrupt regimes who make their citizens suffer. However this is not the tone of the article or the damning title of the article.

bean

qwertplaywert wrote: »

But who gets to decide that?

Statements that are untrue or inaccurate are unpublishable according to the press council

qwertplaywert

In fairness to him, I'm pretty sure he revealed in the Indo that the title was not his choice, it was the editors.

bean

qwertplaywert wrote: »

In fairness to him, I'm pretty sure he revealed in the Indo that the title was not his choice, it was the editors.

damn editors

XJR

bean wrote: »

damn editors

Dare I ask if your original opinion of the article has changed?

daveharnett

bean wrote: »

Statements that are untrue or inaccurate are unpublishable according to the press council

Myers writes opinion pieces. I can't see how any reasonable person would read them as news or statements of fact. As such, they are neither untrue nor inaccurate - they are statements of his opinion (or perhaps his 'position').

If you you find his opinions objectionable, write to his editor. Better still, don't give him the satisfaction - just don't read his column or buy the newspaper he writes for!

Blisterman

bean wrote: »

Statements that are untrue or inaccurate are unpublishable according to the press council

He didn't lie. He just gave his opinion on the matter.


Personally, I commend him for giving a side of the story, which is rarely given. I may not always agree with him, but at least he's not affected by the general consensus on things.

I do however think the headline on the Africa column is misleading and needlessly provocative. I assume this is something one of the Irish Independent's editors came up with. That paper is getting more and more like a sensationalist British rag.

skelliser

I found nothing wrong with his piece on Africa.

I do however have some trival issues with the suicide piece but on the whole can sympathise with it,
imo having experienced a friend taking his own life and the following and on-going grief associated with it all i can really say is that and i mean this in a polite way, people who think its a selfish act are completly misguided, i think the old cliche applies, if you havent experienced it you really dont know what your talking about. Now that doesnt mean Myers isnt entitled to his opinion or anyone else for that matter.

On the whole any publicity this issue can get is good, cause it sparks debate, which we can all agree is badly needed in this country.

Morlar

bean wrote: »

In recent times I have read his attacks on the most vulnerable and lost people, the impoverished, the ill and the despairing.
At best his attack is careless at worst utterly devoid of humanity.

.....

Mr Myers spewed contempt for the vulnerable, giving credence and
ammunition to those who would wish to give into humanities baser
instincts. The absence of any compassion balance or pity was palpable.

I think you could not be more wrong. Compassion and pity are not going to fix africa - neither is continuing to throw countless millions down the well to assuage some level of misplaced guilt for problems that we did not create. That article read to me as a reasoned plea for a more practical approach to aid to africa. Being critical of emotion driven counterproductive PR appeasing responses to africa is not 'contempt' or 'lack of compassion' and nor is it encouraging people to give in to their baser instincts. This would be one of the more relevant points in my view which illustrates the kind of thinking which is all too rare in Irish media;

the begging bowl for Ethiopia is being passed around to us, yet again. It is nearly 25 years since Ethiopia's (and Bob Geldof's) famous Feed The World campaign, and in that time Ethiopia's population has grown from 33.5 million to 78 million today.

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country? Where is the logic? There is none.


I would be in general agreement with him on the africa article. Re the suicide one he makes some valid points in my view. He is not the usual fluffy headed journalist - thank god we have at least one journalist who is not afraid of the lefty complainers who constantly overreact & sling the mud around anytime they see something 'not entirely positive' on the subject of africa.

Dudess

bean wrote: »

Fair enough, i guess im letting my personal outrage get the best of me.
I think it crossed a line though. Saying that Africa has brought nothing to the world but aids is inaccurate unfair and does spread a kind of hatred that i cant take.

bean wrote: »

suppose a highly read journalist in a widely read news paper telling everyone that africa is no good and all its done is spread aids. I found it offensive

The Africa story was a good example of his style - starting off outrageously and then, as you read on, you discover he's not being that unreasonable.
Also, he's not to blame for lurid headlines. Headlines (written by production staff) aren't trotted out until a good while after stories are submitted by their writers (they're at the mercy of how much space is available also, and one thing's for sure: an advertisement's size won't be reduced to allow more room for a headline).
After the outrage that followed the Indo story (objective thus achieved) Myers wrote a much more moderately styled follow-up piece in the Belfast Telegraph - and really, I can't fault a lot of it.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers-harsh-as-they-were-my-views-on-africa-had-to-be-expressed-13920670.html

Manic Moran

The Africa story reminded me a lot of something I read last week on the airplane.

From PJ O Rourkes rant about Live Aid wrote:

And these musical riots of philanthropy address themselves to the wrong problems. There is, of course, a shortage of food among Africans, but that doesn't mean that there's a shortage of food in Africa. [...] And according to William Shawcross, 200,000 tons of food aid delivered to Ethiopia is baing held in storage by the country's government.
There's also, of course, a lack of transport for that food. But that's not the real problem either. The authorities in Addis Ababa have plenty of trucks for their military operations against the Eritrean rebels, and much of the rest of Ethiopia's haulage is being used for forcibly resettling people instead of feeding them. Western governments are reluctant to send more trucks, for fear they'll be used the same way. And similar behaviour can be seen in the rest of miserable Africa.
The African relief fad serves to distract attention from the real issues. There is famine in Ethiopia, Chad, Sudan and areas of Mozambique. All these countries are involved in pointless civil wars. There are pockets of famine in Mauritania, Niger and Mali - The result of desertification caused mostly by idiot agricultural policies. African famine is not a visitation of fate. It is largely man-made, and the men who made it are largely Africans.
Enormous irrigation projects have been put nto lands that cannot support them and into cultures that cannot use them. Feeble-witted nationalism puts borders in the way of nomadic peoples who used to pick up and move when things got dry. Rural povery drives populations to African cities where governments keep food prices artificially low, thus increasing rural poverty. Bumbling and corrupt central planning stymies farm production. And the hideous regimes use hunger as a weapon to suppress rebellion. People are not just starving. They are being starved.

NTM

bean

XJR wrote: »

Dare I ask if your original opinion of the article has changed?

not really. He tells us that we cannot draw comparisons between irish famine and africas situation as we recovered from our terrible sitiuation. That they were given more aid than we were given at the time, that they just squander it all.

The situation in africa is much worse. Other world governments have repeatedly undermined legitimate democratic governments there. They repeatedly install despot regimes to do their bidding leading to even more despots arising from the local population.

They have problems that we didnt have, relentless harsh environment or killer disease. People do not have the infrastructure or the education to help prevent relentless environmental catastrophy or disease. They also should have had the advantage of some of the worlds richest resources. Truth of that is up to very recently the population have not had any access to these resources instead other companies hiring promoting local militias or corrupt regimes for and using these resources.

My Myers, if he is making a point that money cant solve this had buried it in unfair and dismissive comments and sweeping over simplifications. Mostly he tells us that the deceptively cute looking kids will grow up to be terrorists with guns. If he is just frustrated, he should have a go at the interfering companies, goverments or local bullying leaders. Thats not what he did here