Kevin Myers Action

bean

Manic Moran wrote: »

The Africa story reminded me a lot of something I read last week on the airplane.



NTM

Thats an article i would not agree with but wouldnt be writing about. Mr Myers comment that the only thing to come out of africa is aids is appaling, his clumsy muddled point about mis management and governance not with standing.

That article that you quoted is another "they made their bed now let them lie on it" point. Its not true. A population left staved and ill educated for a hundred years by foreign corporate and governence interference got them where they are today. These ruthless local and national governments over there are an indirect and often direct result of years or exploitation from external sources.

hot2def

wait - if women would just stay in the kitchen, all these beautiful young men could live on with improved self esteem?!? is that the gist of the first bit?

stovelid

hot2def wrote: »

wait - if women would just stay in the kitchen, all these beautiful young men could live on with improved self esteem?!? is that the gist of the first bit?

Not just the kitchen. Their domestic workload would obviously involve frequent trips to the bedroom, bathroom and utility room.

Darragh29

I haven't read the article on Africa but have just read his article on suicide, which demonstrates a complete lack of understanding as to what is going on in the mind of someome before they actually commit suicide. From my limited understanding of what causes suicidal thoughts or actions, I think people who commit suicide do no, not to inflict a life sentence on their living family after their death, but are usually tormented by something so completely heavy and burdensome that their only way of dealing with this burden is to put themselves as far away from it as possible by commiting suicide.

Kevin Myers should take heed of a wise old proverb, "but for the grace of God, there go I..."

He often reminds me of the Westboro Baptist Church founder Fred Phelps, making outrageous statements in an attempt to shock others into holding a particular set of beliefs...

Darragh29

bean wrote: »

Thats an article i would not agree with but wouldnt be writing about. Mr Myers comment that the only thing to come out of africa is aids is appaling, his clumsy muddled point about mis management and governance not with standing.

That article that you quoted is another "they made their bed now let them lie on it" point. Its not true. A population left staved and ill educated for a hundred years by foreign corporate and governence interference got them where they are today. These ruthless local and national governments over there are an indirect and often direct result of years or exploitation from external sources.

He also fails to make the point that his fellow English countrymen raped Africa of natural resources such as Gold for most of the last two centuries...

AngryBadger

Frankly Myers makes some excellent points in his "Africa" article. The most important being that by blindly throwing money at Africa all we're doing is perpetuating the suffering we're constantly rattled about by Concern, Goal, and so on. I have no problem with "helping" other nations, but I have a massive problem with helping people survive and bring more children into the kind of brutality that typifies our perception of Africa.

Re: Suicide. I think anyone who commits suicide is not in their right mind and therefore I think all you achieve by making them a "taboo" of sorts is to stigmatise their remaining families, and I fail to see the point of that.

Overall though, if you don't like his articles, then don't read them. What's the point in trying to suppress a man expressing his opinion? He doesn't run the country/world, so what does it matter if he expresses a view that a great many other people already happen to silently agree with?

Dudess

Darragh29 wrote: »

He also fails to make the point that his fellow English countrymen raped Africa of natural resources such as Gold for most of the last two centuries...

Well despite his "I'm a unionist and a little Englander and I make no apologies for it and aren't I just so pioneering for not socking it to the nasty leftie republicans" schtick which has become quite de rigeur over the past few years among certain Irish people... Myers is Irish - just English-born.

I wouldn't agree with your Fred Phelps comparison - I think Phelps actually believes the outrageous stuff he says rather than merely saying it for controversy's sake...

Marcus.Aurelius

I don't see the point in giving out to Myers for what is essentially a clever and witty article.

His article on Africa was excellent in that it made people discuss the other side of the debate, that the people there seem to butcher each other every few weeks, demand aid, and then go at again the following week. The governments are so corrupt they change hands every few months, and demand money and labour from the west to help them ease the very problems they created through corruption and bloodlust. Having said that, there are ordinary people on the ground suffering in the midst of it all, but it's starting to get ridiculous the way money is squandered there.

As for the suicide article, so what if he considers suicide a selfish option? I would agree, I've had bad times in my life where I contemplated it, but never attempted it for fear of the suffering it would undoubtedly afflict on family and friends. It is indeed a selfish exit option.

Don't be so narrow-minded and naive to believe that the PC spin on all these issues is in anyway the complete picture.

Darragh29

Dudess wrote: »

Well despite his "I'm a unionist and a little Englander and I make no apologies for it and aren't I just so pioneering for not socking it to the nasty leftie republicans" schtick which has become quite de rigeur over the past few years among certain Irish people... Myers is Irish - just English-born.

I wouldn't agree with your Fred Phelps comparison - I think Phelps actually believes the outrageous stuff he says rather than merely saying it for controversy's sake...

Yeah U see your point on the Phelps comparison. I don't rate Myers as a journalist at all, he seems to have identity issues. West Brit, whatever he is, I just finding his writing style cumbersome and often making loose reference to things years ago that were before my time.

Darragh29

Joker wrote: »

I don't see the point in giving out to Myers for what is essentially a clever and witty article.

His article on Africa was excellent in that it made people discuss the other side of the debate, that the people there seem to butcher each other every few weeks, demand aid, and then go at again the following week. The governments are so corrupt they change hands every few months, and demand money and labour from the west to help them ease the very problems they created through corruption and bloodlust. Having said that, there are ordinary people on the ground suffering in the midst of it all, but it's starting to get ridiculous the way money is squandered there.

As for the suicide article, so what if he considers suicide a selfish option? I would agree, I've had bad times in my life where I contemplated it, but never attempted it for fear of the suffering it would undoubtedly afflict on family and friends.

Don't be so narrow-minded and naive to believe that the PC spin on all these issues is in anyway the complete picture.

Nobody is being narrow minded, why would someone "want" to impose suffering on family members, so often have played no part in their situation???

Plentyofice

Hi,
To be honest I find alot of Kevin Myers articles a bit too deep or sometimes boring but in fairness I also find some very very good. You need to look at things in perspective. I actually met the guys and discussed the africa article. The actual figure spent was 680+ billion not 600+ billion . He makes some very valid points in that article . Yes it will almost certainly be offensive to some but he is only speaking his opinion (which he's entitled to) and he's only speaking facts, remember he's not some daily pub drinking mouthpiece that believes all the sh*te of the telly. He has been there, he's got the facts. I know millions are suffering in africa and we must continue to help but he gave us some factual data to read...simple.
On the suicide article, once again it's opinion and he has some personal knowledge on the matter. Put it this way, if his article was read by some people who were comtemplating suicide and now may be put off , does that mean his article is a success.? (i know i know...i expect some of his articles would drive people to comtemplate...ha ha ).
But we should not be complaining to ombudsmen etc etc. No matter what paper you read today some article will piss you off and may offend but jaysus, if we didnt have this newspaper would be a load of b**locks to read..Just an opinion..not saying I'm right..

Dudess

Myers is also one of those - yawn - people who used to be really left-wing but have moved to the right in later years. Just because the cliché states you get more right-wing as you get older, doesn't mean you have to actually comply with it.

He attacks chav culture a lot though - the scummy, lowlife classes who really shouldn't be able to bring children into this world. In light of Baby P, can't see anything wrong with that...

Agonist

And another thing, those africans don't live on a dollar a day as the leftie commies would have you believe, they get a dollar a day each

blackbox

I have just read both articles and found them to be excellent thought-provoking pieces.

I can't understand why anyone would want to complain to teh ombudsman about them.

bean

AngryBadger wrote: »

Frankly Myers makes some excellent points in his "Africa" article. The most important being that by blindly throwing money at Africa all we're doing is perpetuating the suffering we're constantly rattled about by Concern, Goal, and so on. I have no problem with "helping" other nations, but I have a massive problem with helping people survive and bring more children into the kind of brutality that typifies our perception of Africa.

Re: Suicide. I think anyone who commits suicide is not in their right mind and therefore I think all you achieve by making them a "taboo" of sorts is to stigmatise their remaining families, and I fail to see the point of that.

Overall though, if you don't like his articles, then don't read them. What's the point in trying to suppress a man expressing his opinion? He doesn't run the country/world, so what does it matter if he expresses a view that a great many other people already happen to silently agree with?

I dont read them, its when i heard some people around me telling me that africa (edit)deserves what they have and all they do for us is bring disease and unemployment quoting the Myers article. Any point he tries to make about corrupt government was not well made and was dismissive of the misery over there.

bean

Agonist wrote: »

And another thing, those africans don't live on a dollar a day as the leftie commies would have you believe, they get a dollar a day each

yeah but they are canadian dollars

4zn76tysfajdxp

blackbox wrote: »

I have just read both articles and found them to be excellent thought-provoking pieces.

I can't understand why anyone would want to complain to teh ombudsman about them.

Kevin?

bean

Tenley Powerful Shelter wrote: »

Kevin?

thought i recognised the accent

faceman

I find Myers articles very useful
When i run out of toilet paper.

He does it to be controversial, he even said it on a recent episode of the Panel.

He offering nothing more than poor and unbalanced opinion on certain topics. He is fond of mass generalisation and avoiding flipping the coin to hear all sides of a story. He can do that all he wants. If people are naive enough to accept what he is saying as the be all and end all, then they are the bigger gobshi'ites

bean

faceman wrote: »

I find Myers articles very useful
When i run out of toilet paper.

He does it to be controversial, he even said it on a recent episode of the Panel.

He offering nothing more than poor and unbalanced opinion on certain topics. He is fond of mass generalisation and avoiding flipping the coin to hear all sides of a story. He can do that all he wants. If people are naive enough to accept what he is saying as the be all and end all, then they are the bigger gobshi'ites

Agreed, im just sick of these uncontested statements being made, the letters to the editors by way of disagreement are not read by most and Myers notions spread across the country.

Maximilian

What a ridiculous thread this is. Kevin Myers is not entitled to an opinion now? He makes great points at least 50% of the time. Plus he's entertaining.

If you don't like what he has to say, don't bloody read his articles.

Honey-ec

bean wrote: »

I dont read them, its when i heard some people around me telling me that africa (edit)deserves what they have and all they do for us is bring disease and unemployment quoting the Myers article. Any point he tries to make about corrupt government was not well made and was dismissive of the misery over there.

So hang on, you haven't actually read either of the columns in question, yet are still calling for the man to fall on his proverbial sword???

bean

Maximilian wrote: »

What a ridiculous thread this is. Kevin Myers is not entitled to an opinion now? He makes great points at least 50% of the time. Plus he's entertaining.

If you don't like what he has to say, don't bloody read his articles.

as per my previous reply:
I dont read them, its when i heard some people around me telling me that africa (edit)deserves what they have and all they do for us is bring disease and unemployment quoting the Myers article. Any point he tries to make about corrupt government was not well made and was dismissive of the misery over there

He stated his opinion, im challenging his statement that the only thing to come out of Africa is aids. Again, i stated many times in my previous replies

bean

Honey-ec wrote: »

So hang on, you haven't actually read either of the columns in question, yet are still calling for the man to fall on his proverbial sword???

Nope i read it when i heard so many folk around me using his article as a reason to put down africa immigrants etc. What i said is that i dont read him on any kind of regular basis

blackbox

bean wrote: »

Nope i read it when i heard so many folk around me using his article as a reason to put down africa immigrants etc. What i said is that i dont read him on any kind of regular basis

Then you should focus your criticisms on the "folk around you" who misrepresent his articles, rather on him.

Also, Myers may put down immigration from Africa, but this is a very different thing from putting down immigrants.

NB BlackBox ≠ Kevin

EamonnKeane

faceman wrote: »

He offering nothing more than poor and unbalanced opinion on certain topics. He is fond of mass generalisation and avoiding flipping the coin to hear all sides of a story. He can do that all he wants. If people are naive enough to accept what he is saying as the be all and end all, then they are the bigger gobshi'ites

But I suppose his point is to explore the other side of arguments that are ignored

bean

blackbox wrote: »

Then you should focus your criticisms on the "folk around you" who misrepresent his articles, rather on him.

Also, Myers may put down immigration from Africa, but this is a very different thing from putting down immigrants.

NB BlackBox ≠ Kevin

actually, not so different

panda100

bean wrote: »

Agreed, im just sick of these uncontested statements being made, the letters to the editors by way of disagreement are not read by most and Myers notions spread across the country.

I would agree with this. He and other journo's rarely show the REAL facts on Africa/Suicide etc.

I'm not a fan of Myers at all but I commend anyone who gets a good, open discusion on suicide going.

I dont think calling suicide victims "selfish" is a taboo subject at all. I know a number of people who have commited suicide and after the inital grief period its not long before extended friends and family call it a selfish act.
One thing that is a taboo subject is actually trying to find out why that person was so down that they wanted to kill themselves. People dont want to acknowledge the reasons of why their friend/brother/father was so desperatly unhappy that they chose death over life.

As for suicde rates being accelerated by feminism I dont remember mass suicide outbreaks among men at the turn of the century when women won the right to vote? I dont remember reports of mass male suicide in second wave feminism in the 60's?

The only 'ism' that coincides with the massive increase in suicide in this country is capitalism. Our suicide rate increased dramatically with the celtic Tiger. The more and more material our country has gotten over the last decade and the more obsessed with money,possesions, apperances etc , Ireland has becomethe more and more we see rates of depression rising and suicide rates elevated.

brownh66

If we had more people like Mr Myers making social commentary the way he does would we not be better off. :eek:

We have Freedom of Speech. Its time we all used it !

Hey Bean, cop yourself on laddie !

bean

brownh66 wrote: »

If we had more people like Mr Myers making social commentary the way he does would we not be better off. :eek:

We have Freedom of Speech. Its time we all used it !

Hey Bean, cop yourself on laddie !

aye and tis my right to complain when i think that he making an unfair untrue statements