Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

Trojan911

cavan shooter wrote: »

In the news of the world yesterday, a little piece of an article accusing certain people of sending abusive e mails to Minister Deasy,I am not even going to repeat it, I dont have it now and tried to find it on the net, it was offensive to any law abiding shooter to say the least

I saw that article as well, It started with the words " Gun Nuts have subjected FG Deputy John Deasy to a campaign of Hate Emails"

That's classy journalism ... :rolleyes:

Sparks

That's the news of the world for you...

MikeEve

Hi folks!

I'm sorry to intrude, but I couldn't stand back and see you folks get the the same shafting we pistol-owners in the UK got in 1997.

Is there any way we can help? I appreciate we didn't win, but we DID learn a lot in the process of losing which might help you.

I've already e-mailed your Depart of Justice, as follows -

"Dear Sirs,

I am disappointed to see that you are considering a ban on legally-held pistols in your lovely country.

I was a police officer in England at the time of the UK pistol ban, and I'd have to say that the results have not been in any way useful.
The Home Office Statistics show that in 1998/9 at the very end of legal pistol ownership, there were 2,687 crimes reported involving the use of handguns - the 2006/7 figure was 4,151, and the proportion of pistols used in armed crime had also risen alarmingly.

Further, the ban created a rift in the trust between the law-abiding shooters and the police - something that even today has not been fully healed, and as I'm sure you'll agree to have one of the most law-abiding communities in the country to have such distrust of the police was not a good thing for anyone concerned.

In the light of our experiences in the UK, could you not reconsider your statements about such a ban?

Thank you for taking the time to read this - I appreciate it.
Yours sincerely " etc.

One thing we all wish we had done morre of in 1998 was getting all our shooters to visit their Membners of Parliament, or write SHORT POLITE letters pointing out the facts.

I see that there is much very good advice on this board on this subject, but we found it very difficult to motivate shooters to take this course of action - I hope you have more success than we did in thi area !

Please- if there is anything we can do to help - please let us know - I'm the senior Firearms Officer for the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) by the way.

Blazher

MikeEve,

Thank you for taking the time to make a post and for contacting the Doj.
Any help you could offer would be great and very welcome.

Thanks again

Red Renard

MikeEve wrote: »

Hi folks!

I'm sorry to intrude, but I couldn't stand back and see you folks get the the same shafting we pistol-owners in the UK got in 1997.

Is there any way we can help? I appreciate we didn't win, but we DID learn a lot in the process of losing which might help you.

I've already e-mailed your Depart of Justice, as follows -

"Dear Sirs,

I am disappointed to see that you are considering a ban on legally-held pistols in your lovely country.

I was a police officer in England at the time of the UK pistol ban, and I'd have to say that the results have not been in any way useful.
The Home Office Statistics show that in 1998/9 at the very end of legal pistol ownership, there were 2,687 crimes reported involving the use of handguns - the 2006/7 figure was 4,151, and the proportion of pistols used in armed crime had also risen alarmingly.

Further, the ban created a rift in the trust between the law-abiding shooters and the police - something that even today has not been fully healed, and as I'm sure you'll agree to have one of the most law-abiding communities in the country to have such distrust of the police was not a good thing for anyone concerned.

In the light of our experiences in the UK, could you not reconsider your statements about such a ban?

Thank you for taking the time to read this - I appreciate it.
Yours sincerely " etc.

One thing we all wish we had done morre of in 1998 was getting all our shooters to visit their Membners of Parliament, or write SHORT POLITE letters pointing out the facts.

I see that there is much very good advice on this board on this subject, but we found it very difficult to motivate shooters to take this course of action - I hope you have more success than we did in thi area !

Please- if there is anything we can do to help - please let us know - I'm the senior Firearms Officer for the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) by the way.

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/certificate_application_f

The word travels fast far and wide Mike. Your concern is much appreciated. So you are saying the political decision taken by the UK Labour Party was a big mistake. The told you so wisdom, common sense in fact, has been proven correct.:o

MikeEve

Blazher,

Thanks for the welcome -

So - firstly things NOT to do.
1. Write long letters - 1 side of A4 is best.
2. Ask retorical questions in your letters. How's that going to help?
3. Be abusive in your letters.
4. Use "form letters" when writing.

There's a sort of pecking order of ways to contact your elected representatives - going from best to worst:

1. A personal, polite, face-to-face meeting (remember they work for YOU)
2. A well-written, short polite letter pointing out the facts and asking him or her to support you.
3. A form letter
4. A long, rambling, abusive, or badly written letter
5. A form postcard
6. Signing a petition.

Letters should always ask your representative to do something specific - in this case to oppose the pistol ban, and to give you their reassurance that they will do this - but as ever - politely!

Petitions help a little, but they must never be seen as a substitute for a personal letter or visit. They can be counter-productive if shooters believe that by signing a petition they've done enough - you should encourage everyone who signs a petition to write or ask for a meeting as well.

Marches are OK in that they provide publicity and encourage shooters to act together, but they should be quiet and orderly, and any banners or placards should be short and polite. It also helps by bringing in friends, families and other supporters of the sport.

I'm afraid I'm not very well up on your shooting organisations or your current laws, so I can't help much in those areas.

I hope this is of some use to you, and I wish you all the best in your struggle -

Mike

MikeEve

Red Renard,

I'm sorry - our posts seem to have "crossed" I wasn't being rude and ignoring you - and thanks for the welcome.

In fact it was the COnservative Party who did the dirty deed, the Labour Party were elected just after the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997, and they simply rubbed salt into our wounds by not implementing a part of the Act which would have allowed us to have small-bore pistols in special clubs - which I doubt would have been workable anyway.

Another lesson we learned is NOT to be party political - speak to ALL parties.

Blazher

MikeEve

Thanks again for the reply and the support

Vegeta

Thanks Mike.

sfakiaman

Many thanks Mike. all good practicle advice.

Jonty

Welcome to the site MikeEve

kerryman12

Guys

I have taken a few hours out to-day to mail all of the TD's in my local area. In the absence of any clear co-ordinated strategy it appears to me that this is the best way forward.

Regards

I emailed all of mine (bar one, as he is a malicous, useless fecker) over the weekend.

Will be interesting to see if there are any responses.

mildot

New laws to crack down on begging

" Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern revealed the proposals this afternoon, which will see the first reform in laws on begging. "

Jesus there is really no hope at all now... we cant even beg the Supers to issue a firearm's cert !

Wonder what will happen when the first application is submitted by a visiting foreign pistol shooter to compete in a match... ? If in the case of a full bore pistol will it be granted ? and if yes how will it look if an Irish citizen is being denied the same entitlement ?

jburke

hello all shooters
im on here to spent some anger.
im a shooter for all most the best part of twenty years.
in those years i have started from a .22 to a shotgun center fire rifle also a pistol
i have passed everything the garda have asked of me and the two gun clubs im a member of.
i just feel sick that the irish goverment has again has picked on the irish soft bellie again i fell slandered the way the irish pistol shooter is been blamed on the shootings in limerick that we are in partensership with them
i feel sorry for that lad who was shot dead in limerick but if the goverment gave the garda and the customs the proper laws to tackle the gangs and the drugs we all would be better off instead of picking on joe soap everytime something goes wrong.
everybodie knows the guns come in with the drugs not from the gun clubs
the goverment should look at this properly and not look for pr stunts on people backs or the misreys

rrpc

Do you know what's the most annoying/infuriating/depressing/upsetting (choose whichever suits your mood) thing about this?

I checked most of the Sunday papers and although there were plenty of articles about crime and the Governments inaction, not one that I read (I didn't read them all) linked the Governments crackdown on handguns with the crime situation even though they (the newspapers) had been bellowing about it for the last few weeks.

So we were the sacrificial lambs on the altar of political expediency and the fupping sacrifice was ignored :mad:



If they really believed that banning licensed handguns was going to make a difference, you'd think that they'd have continued the charade long enough to make it look decent.

Grizzly 45

Sheesh!Did he jot that down on the back of a Fag packet 10 mins before he was going up to speak???
No mention of the firearms ban ,that any which it is cut he had a hand in starting down the slope.
Or how FG are going to extricate themselves out of that mess and actually get Irish gunowners trust to vote in them again.Seeing that it is the "the three stooges"of FG who had to push this tragic comedy to the front over the last few weeks.
Not much mention of protecting childrens rights either.
Just the usual railing against the oppositions incompetance. 2 pages of a speech,for how long does an average TD speak to the party faithful??20 mins per man/woman??

C'mon Charles,You can fool some of the people most of the time....:rolleyes:

Mech1

Dear Eoghan,
my name is %%%%%%%%%%%% and you would know me as the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I am sorry to have to annoy you but I feel that something has to be done about this situation. I don’t want this to affect
your use of the $$$$$$$$ in any way. Thanks for reading.

I have not written to a Government office before so please ignore any breach of “normal conduct” that you may expect, Sorry.

I have heard through the media over the past week that my sport is being outlawed.
In 2004 my partner and I had a long discussion (lasting many weeks) over what sport I should pursue as I had time available now that our Son was 6yrs old and I had just had a pay rise. Before this we could simply not afford the time or expense of joining a sports club of any description.
We eventually agreed that golf would be too expensive and I looked about for other “not to physical” sports available in our area.
One day we attended $$$$$$ Shooting Club on a family day sponsored (I think) by South Dublin County Council and attended by the Mayor of South Dublin and we realised that we both not only enjoyed the sport, but also the social side of it, lovely people endorsed by the council.

So I joined the club and proceeded to obtain the gear necessary to compete. My first gun licence was for a .22 rifle and took over 6 months from application to licence but I understood this, as a lot of checks have to be completed. When you get your first licence for a firearm believe me you feel great, not everybody By any means can obtain this, you feel that it is a reward “for being good all your life” and you also realise that you can fully trust all the licence holder friends that You have met as they have all gone through the same tough procedure and have been approved as fit to hold a firearms licence.

I have been competing in competitions ever since, and have made many friends from all over the world never mind everyone in the national scene. I have no fear When arriving at a shoot as to whom I will meet or what house we may end up staying overnight in as I know that they are all good people, approved by the local Superintendent.

My Club has been approved by the garda for pistol shooting at a cost of many thousands raised by the members and I have been approved for a Glock pistol and I Compete now in that discipline every weekend and on most Wednesday nights. This sport is cheap in relation to some others but we as a family have spent over € 10,000 euro on equipment, ammunition, membership fees, travel expenses, licence fees, alarm system, safe, shooting insurance etc.

We as a family love our sport and the people involved in it.

Don’t let the powers that be remove our licence for handguns and our sport.

Thanks for listening, phone me anytime if you need any further information.

Many Thanks,

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



sent to senator e.harris / e.regan both known to me.

MikeEve

I'm afraid I don't know the structure of your shooting organisations, but in the UK there is the British Shooting Sports Council, (BSSC) which is a council of members of all the major shooting sports, at which we discuss matters of mutual interest, and co-ordinate our responses to various challenges to the sport.

Do you have a similar association in Ireland, or is there one organisation that could help to co-ordinate your response?

As I said in previous posts, we may have lost the majority of our pistol shooting (not all) but we have learnt a great deal in the process, and so if we can help by letting you know of our experiences, we're happy to do so.

Good luck with your fight !

Trojan911

MikeEve wrote: »

Please- if there is anything we can do to help - please let us know - I'm the senior Firearms Officer for the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) by the way.

Hi MikeEve,

Do you know how much it cost the Government in total in compensation (& I'm including everything i.e. guns, speedloaders, spare mags, bullet loaders etc) when they revoked the Sec1's & how many handguns were surrendered?

I was in London at the time & also had to surrender my three.

Cheers.

MikeEve

MikeEve wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't know the structure of your shooting organisations, but in the UK there is the British Shooting Sports Council, (BSSC) which is a council of members of all the major shooting sports, at which we discuss matters of mutual interest, and co-ordinate our responses to various challenges to the sport.

Do you have a similar association in Ireland, or is there one organisation that could help to co-ordinate your response?

As I said in previous posts, we may have lost the majority of our pistol shooting (not all) but we have learnt a great deal in the process, and so if we can help by letting you know of our experiences, we're happy to do so.

Good luck with your fight !

We have the Firearms Consultative Paney (FCP) which is an umbrella group consisting of the main shooting bodies in Ireland (bar Practical Pistol) and this meets with the Government and representatives from the Guards.

rrpc

Deleted User wrote: »

We have the Firearms Consultative Paney (FCP) which is an umbrella group consisting of the main shooting bodies in Ireland (bar Practical Pistol) and this meets with the Government and representatives from the Guards.

The IPSA are members of the SSAI now, so they are also represented.

rrpc

From the SSAI website:

Shooting Colleagues

Since the announcement by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Dermot Ahern T.D. summarising his proposal for a ban on licensing handguns, I have been working with shooting groups on the FCP and with others, to ensure the impact of any such proposed changes on the shooters we represent will be minimal.

I can fully understand the annoyance, anger and frustration felt by target shooters who believe that this move has little, if anything, to do with public safety or gun crime. Let me assure you that I will leave no stone unturned in my efforts to resolve the significant issues brought about by recent happenings and thereby ensure, that we, shooting sports participants, retain our centrefire and rimfire pistols and revolvers.

As one of the representatives on the Panel, I was disappointed with certain recent public comments that have done nothing to enhance the productivity or progress of the Firearms Consultative Panel. Serious as this situation is we have the capacity to address these issues within the FCP.

Shooters in many other countries have not enjoyed the same opportunity.
I will be attending a meeting, which will take place on Thursday next, of the shooting group reps who sit on the FCP to discuss recent developments.

It is essential that we, the target shooting community, demonstrate unity, composure, resolve and maturity.

It is no time for disharmony or emotional outbursts such activity will not help our case.

I expect a lot of dialogue and discussion will be take place over the next ten days, I will fully update you thereafter.

Yours in sport,
Declan Cahill
Chairman
shootingsportsireland@gmail.com

Sparks

I do hope he's including air pistols in there along with the centrefire and rimfire

Mech1

Reply from Eugene Regan.



Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:14 PM
From: Eugene.Regan@Oireachtas.ie
To: £££££££££££££££££££££££££
Subject: Re: My Sport outlawed?
Size: 13 KB


Dear """"""""""""""""""",


Thank you for your email.

Further to our discussion this morning I wish to assure you that I am opposed to the restriction proposed by the Minister on legally held handguns.

I should also say that this is the view of Fine Gael's Justice Spokesperson in the Dáil Charlie Flanagan, who stated that "Fine Gael is extremely concerned that the Minister is focusing on legally held firearms to shift attention away from the far more serious problem caused by illegal firearms in the State. It is common knowledge that criminal gangs have easy access to dangerous firearms and there is evidence that they travel overseas to avail to top of the range training facilities. Fine Gael is urging the Minister for Justice to direct his attention in the first instance towards the serious matter of illegal firearms as part of a broader effort to tackle criminality in this country."


I will keep in touch on this.

Kind regards,

Eugene




____________________________________________
SENATOR EUGENE REGAN
FG Seanad Spokesperson on Justice, Equality and Law Reform
Seanad Éireann
Leinster House
Kildare Street
Dublin 2
Phone: 01 6183279
Fax: 01 618 4576
Email: eugene.regan@oireachtas.ie

Slav

chem wrote: »

I talked to everyone there and asked them how many licenced pistols were in NI. I was told about 105,000 and 10,000 of them were issued on consealed carry permits!!

These figures seem too high to me... Also I thought that there are no concealed carry permits in NI for civilians, am I wrong? Maybe the figures above include the firearms of PSNI and army as well? Does anybody have a link to the official statistics on the number and types of handguns licensed in Northern Ireland?

.50 (MOA)

The PSNI is investigating whether dissident republicans may have been behind a raid on a firearms store in which a number of weapons were stolen.
Three masked men, one armed with a shotgun, held up the weapons dealer at his shop in the village of Garrison, Co Fermanagh, The shop lies close to the border with Co Cavan.
Nine hand guns were stolen from the shop, including two Glock 9mm pistols, along with a quantity of ammunition.


The raiders made off in a car later found burned out in Belleek, Co Fermanagh.
The PSNI has recently warned of the threat to their officers from dissident republicans and last week advised people with legally held weapons to keep them safe.

Trojan911

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

The PSNI is investigating whether dissident republicans may have been behind a raid on a firearms store in which a number of weapons were stolen.
Three masked men, one armed with a shotgun, held up the weapons dealer at his shop in the village of Garrison, Co Fermanagh, The shop lies close to the border with Co Cavan.
Nine hand guns were stolen from the shop, including two Glock 9mm pistols, along with a quantity of ammunition.


The raiders made off in a car later found burned out in Belleek, Co Fermanagh.
The PSNI has recently warned of the threat to their officers from dissident republicans and last week advised people with legally held weapons to keep them safe.

Ok, not good to hear, however, it is still not in the R.O.I. where the problem lies.

G17

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

Nine hand guns were stolen from the shop, including two Glock 9mm pistols,

More Glockocide (new word, coool!) from the media.

:rolleyes:

At least some other reports seem accurate, from Irish Times web site - The PSNI said the haul included two Gloch 9mm pistols; a Sig Saur 9mm pistol; a Walther.22 pistol and five Hammerli .22 target pistols. A quantity of both 9mm and .22 ammunition was also taken.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

fish slapped

The timing is just unbelievable!!!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1125/breaking49.htm