Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

ivanthehunter

Rovi wrote: »

The Irish Times website reports the following little gem from Labour's Joe Costello in relation to the gangland shooting last night-
Original text here-
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0108/breaking5.htm

Also preserved in the Press Clippings thread-
#90

Sure its no wonder that the national debt is at 50bil with fools like that preaching there imbecilic thoughts to the mob.

still they gazed and wonder grew how one small head carried all he knew!NOT!!! and even if pistols are confined to the pages of sporting history, statements like that need to be highlighted in the public domain with the intention of telling the public the truth about target shooters and the differences between gangs and clubs.
I know i have come out with a few crazy statement myself but i wonder if Labour's Joe Costello is playing with a full pack after reading the above.
Is he really saying that a Irish sporting pistol club member carried out this attack!!! Is he implying that all licenced pistol holders as criminals?



Ever cloud has a silver lining!! Will the ministers now allow all rifle shooters to enjoy the sport to the maximum by allowing reloading at last. If their going to take pistols away then shouldn't they show the shooting community a good will jester!!!

2009 is the year of reloading.

CJhaughey

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Ever cloud has a silver lining!! Will the ministers now allow all rifle shooters to enjoy the sport to the maximum by allowing reloading at last. If their going to take pistols away then shouldn't they show the shooting community a good will jester!!!

2009 is the year of reloading.

It doesn't work like that, the minister is already working out what he can ban next and how the press release will make him look like an action hero.
He is obviously not interested in giving anything back to the shooting community, He doesn't listen to the FCP, and has already said that he will look at banning more firearms if he feels necessary. (and is still in a job )

Sikamick

How can we ever expect to get our rights as shooters when we have no Leadership. This Saturday the SSAI are holding the 2008 AGM.

As we all know the SSAI is made up of members from the NGB'S and the NGB'S are formed from clubs, the SSAI reps sit on the FCP.

This AGM will only be attended by the existing committee, it is a complete farce, (To Sparks) how or where do the votes come from to elect or reelect the incoming committee.

The SSAI should be calling all affiliate members to this AGM, that is NGB'S, Club committees and members, especially in the light of the situation we find ourselves in re Pistol licensing.

Sikamick

chem

Sikamick wrote: »

How can we ever expect to get our rights as shooters when we have no Leadership. This Saturday the SSAI are holding the 2008 AGM.
Sikamick

Mick am I the onlyone getting the feeling, that handguns are to be "allowed" go in the hope that rifle and target pistols will be left alone by the DOJ??

Bananaman

Target pistols ARE handguns.
Handguns ARE Target Pistols

There is no difference.

B'Man

Sikamick

chem wrote: »

Mick am I the onlyone getting the feeling, that handguns are to be "allowed" go in the hope that rifle and target pistols will be left alone by the DOJ??

_______________________________________________________________

I would love to answer that here but I probably end up in court again if I posted what I know on that one. Some people don't like to hear the truth.

Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

_______________________________________________________________

I would love to answer that here but I probably end up in court again if I posted what I know on that one. Some people don't like to hear the truth.

Sikamick

Mick, if you know something I don't know, you can always PM me.

It's in nobody's interest for anything to go. Equally it's in nobody's interest for everything to go either.

We're all just rabbits caught in the headlights here.

Rovi

Here's Joe Costello's (Labour Party Spokesperson on Europe and Human Rights) statement on the Labour Party website-
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/123140390846947.html

Gangland murder shows need for legislation on guns
Issued : Thursday 8 January, 2009

Condemning the shooting of two men in Langrishe Place in the Summerhill area of the North Inner City last night which has left one man dead and another seriously injured, Deputy Joe Costello said that "this savage crime on a quiet residential street in my constituency, is another example of gangland crime which is reaching epidemic proportions throughout the country.

"Undoubtedly there was a drugs connection in this latest gangland killing, too", he said.
"Over 2,200 handguns were seized by Gardaí in the last four years, including 1,200 in Dublin alone, according to Department of Justice figures last month.
"The Minister for Justice has promised legislation to clamp down on the ready availability of handguns. So far he has not delivered on his promise.
"He should have the legislation ready for debate when the Dáil resumes later this month and it should be passed as a matter of urgency.
"There is no valid reason why any citizen should be entitled to have a legally held handgun in their possession or in their home.
"Zero licensing of handguns will ensure that no such weapons can be stolen by criminals in the future and will enable the Gardaí to concentrate on seizing and decommissioning illegally held weapons", Deputy Costello concluded.

Sparks

Sikamick wrote: »

How can we ever expect to get our rights as shooters when we have no Leadership.

(1) We have no rights. We exist on privilege. I know we've said it before, but it bears repeating.
(2) We don't need leadership unless our primary purpose is a scrap with "De Man". That's not my primary purpose, and dealing with the disasters that have come from those who followed that line of thinking seems to have eaten up nearly all the time that I used to have for my primary purpose (ie. actually standing there on the firing line shooting at targets). If we have a dispute, the FCP is the better way to have it resolved - anyone who says otherwise, especially those who say "erra, we'll take 'em to court and win lads!" is living in a daydream world and shouldn't be given the TV remote, let alone the right to speak for others. And no, the FCP's neither perfect nor omnipotent, but it's the best we've got and unless you can rewrite the Irish Constitution so that a tiny democratic minority have a veto over the Dail, Seanad and Government, then it's about the best we're likely to get for a long while.

This Saturday the SSAI are holding the 2008 AGM.

Already? I thought that they hadn't held the 2007 AGM yet since they weren't quorate when they tried to do so? (The NTSA were members in 2007, so they had to be present at the 2007 AGM, but they weren't asked to go to the meeting held in late 2008 that was supposed to be the 2007 AGM. And they didn't have full attendance from other members, so I'm pretty sure they weren't quorate, meaning no 2007 AGM has been held yet...)

As we all know the SSAI is made up of members from the NGB'S and the NGB'S are formed from clubs, the SSAI reps sit on the FCP.
This AGM will only be attended by the existing committee, it is a complete farce, (To Sparks) how or where do the votes come from to elect or reelect the incoming committee.

The various constituent members of the SSAI each nominate four representatives. How those representatives are selected is up to the constituent members but I don't think I've ever heard of them being elected at an NGB AGM, usually it's co-option by the NGB committee. Once these four are selected, all 16 of them go onto the SSAI committee without a nominated position at the AGM, and at the first non-AGM meeting of the SSAI, they all decide amongst themselves who will fill what role.

The SSAI should be calling all affiliate members to this AGM, that is NGB'S, Club committees and members, especially in the light of the situation we find ourselves in re Pistol licensing.

There aren't any affiliate members in that sense in the SSAI - there are just the NGBs who are members (last I looked, the NASRPC, the NRAI, the NSAI and the IPC, assuming that the dissolution of the IPSA has allready happened).
And frankly, no, the SSAI should not be doing that. Their role is not to tell everyone else what to do, it's to act as a single point of contact for the Sports Council. As someone else put it, they really only need 2 meetings a year - one to collate grant applications into one single grant to go into the Sports Council, and the other to distribute whatever funds come back from it. Doing anything more is trying to make the SSAI into an NGB, and with the structure they have, that would be a Very Bad Idea.

Sparks

Sent to joe.costello@oireachtas.ie

Deputy,
In relation to last nights shooting in Summerhill, you rightly decried the savagery of that criminal act to the Times, with which I fully agree; but you followed that up with a statement calling on the Minister for Justice to introduce “zero licensing of handguns”.
Deputy, are you implying that the shooting in Summerhill was carried out by a legitimate, licenced holder of a handgun?
If so, this is the silver lining in the story, because the gardai will merely read off the serial number from the handgun found, enter it into PULSE, and get not only the home address of the suspect, but also the name of the Garda Superintendent who issued him that licence after a period of background checks, home security inspections, verification of his or her membership in a garda-approved target shooting range, and so on.

Perhaps what you actually meant to say was that you were calling on the Minister to increase funding and resources for the Gardai in order to give them what they need to enforce the already existing laws and put more gardai on the streets, instead of drafting yet more laws which will only be followed by those people who don't go around shooting drug dealers over "business disputes"?

Yours in Sport,

ivanthehunter

Sikamick wrote: »

How can we ever expect to get our rights as shooters when we have no Leadership. This Saturday the SSAI are holding the 2008 AGM.

As we all know the SSAI is made up of members from the NGB'S and the NGB'S are formed from clubs, the SSAI reps sit on the FCP.

This AGM will only be attended by the existing committee, it is a complete farce, (To Sparks) how or where do the votes come from to elect or reelect the incoming committee.

The SSAI should be calling all affiliate members to this AGM, that is NGB'S, Club committees and members, especially in the light of the situation we find ourselves in re Pistol licensing.

Sikamick

Is the IFA not involved-- just think that they have a bit of pull and rifles and shot guns are use on farms. The IFA have many fingers that seem to rub all the right spots. Just a thought.

Dont forget the also supply shooting insurance!!!

Sparks

The IFA sits on the FCP. As do representatives of the CAI & NARGC (so insurance is covered) and as do the firearms dealers.

Grizzly 45

Think Comrade Costello needs to hear from the downtrodden masses of Irish gunowners a bit more in hie emails,faxes,letters etc.Thats unless he is a fan of Blarite New Labour of course:rolleyes:.

It would also be quite nice if the FCP would issue some information once in awhile to the troops so to speak.seeing that we have heard NOTHING from them since this fiasco started.As would all shooting organisations who are fighting this[supposedly].That way they would avoid having to critize grass roots movements by the average gun owners of Ireland and actually show that they are doing what they are supposed to do.IE defend and negoiate their section of the sport.Not sit in solitary splendour "in consultations"with the DOJ.Simple rule of leadership,inform your company,troops,colleuges of WTF is going on.It prevents rumours and people going off in panics or taking otherwise unnecessary actions.

bunny shooter

Would some of the "Olympic" shooters please explain how come in the ministers statement that their stuff may be allowed after his proposed ban? Do these firearms not have the propensity to kill in the wrong hands too?

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

Would some of the "Olympic" shooters please explain how come in the ministers statement that their stuff may be allowed after his proposed ban?

Bunny, this is the last time I'll tell you to stop trolling.
Do it again and you can take a month off to find a hobby.

Kryten

E- Mail of complaint sent to Joe Costello.
Bunny, no brainer really.
As most of the murders are done with the evil 9mm:eek:
The uneducated and ignorant only see these as the real threat.
Hell the oul sawn off shotgun is the most deadly of all.

Manic Moran

We don't need leadership unless our primary purpose is a scrap with "De Man".

American-resident gun nut though I am, I have been fairly strong in my opinion that I don't want to join the NRA. I shoot mainly for sport, and I don't like to encourage the concept of shooting as a political issue. Indeed, as much as possible, I would like to separate sports from politics.

Unfortunately, I have concluded that whether I like it or not, the politicians in govermnent think it's a political issue. The opposition is, indeed, 'The Man,' whether we wish it to be or not. The government imposes Its Will (or what it thinks is the People's Will, though I'm not sure how in touch with reality they are) and we suffer. The only way to stop the sport from being eroded by the politicians is to fight them on their turf.

I am seriously reconsidering my position in the light of cold reality.

NTM

Sparks

Manic Moran wrote: »

The only way to stop the sport from being eroded by the politicians is to fight them on their turf.

Their "turf" is basicly public opinion though; which means that the best way to protect our sport is through PR and promoting the sport at every turn; and that's best done on an individual basis, because in the time it'd take to organise a "united public relations lobbying body", we'd all grow old and die.
So the best way to defend the sport is to do it and also tell people about it. Which is what some groups have been trying to do for almost a decade now, but which others feel is an anathema.

As to lobbying politicians directly, we don't need a unified body for that, we need shooters to stop being lazy and wander down to their local TD's clinic/pick up the phone and call their local TD/pick up a pen and write a letter to their local TD/open their email program and type out an email to their local TD/actually fecking do something.
Seriously. All this chatter about needing a unified body is a red herring. It would do nothing but cause more of the same problems we've had with every NGB and non-NGB body out there. We don't seem to be able to work as a group. Fine. Let's not try. Let's just actually work, eh?

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Bunny, this is the last time I'll tell you to stop trolling.
Do it again and you can take a month off to find a hobby.

:eek: This is a civil and honest question

Sparks

It's not. It was the first time. Now it's just the same trolling, dem-issf-boys-done-sold-us-out line that we've heard so many times that it's actually getting boring. So drop it, because we know where and whom it's coming from, why it's coming from there, why it's being spread about, and what little it could accomplish.

bunny shooter

Well would you like to tell me the truth then?

Sparks

For the Nth time?
The average politician doesn't know a .45ACP round from a hole in the ground. But they all know of the Olympics. Known quantities are perceived as being safer than unknown ones.
That's it. Big huge secret, isn't it?

rrpc

+1 Sparks

There's another reason too: people who have no connection with ISSF shooting have often used Olympic shooting as a backup along the lines of: "Pistol shooting is done in the Olympics, so why would you have a problem with that?" or: "you couldn't ban air pistols, they use them in the Olympics"

End result is that everyone who's heard about pistol shooting has heard of Olympic pistol shooting.

Even that eejit in Waterford mentioned it and he wouldn't even reply to my emails :eek:

There are more such one-liners:

Deer hunters shot Bambi's mammy
Anyone with a gun shot the Pope
All criminals use 9mm's, so 9mm's are criminal

And for those giving out about NGB's not doing anything, well stuff is being done, but it's the boring, slogging, never ending drudgery of talking to anyone who'll listen: media, politicians, opposition and doing things like having open days and inviting people to ranges and generally the kind of drudgery that doesn't seem glamorous or noteworthy but which is vital to getting our message across.

And it'll keep being done despite the efforts of those within our own ranks who have nothing better to do then try and find someone to blame. :mad:

Grizzly 45

And for those giving out about NGB's not doing anything, well stuff is being done, but it's the boring, slogging, never ending drudgery of talking to anyone who'll listen: media, politicians, opposition and doing things like having open days and inviting people to ranges and generally the kind of drudgery that doesn't seem glamorous or noteworthy but which is vital to getting our message across.

Applaudeable and commendable RRPC.But could the NGBs please let the rest of us know this is going on?? It does help to know that maybe some club got a politican down to a range to try out shooting orthe like.
We dont need a blow by blow account of who in the DOJ had tea with somone on the FCP and had either goldgrain or marietta biccies with the tae.somthing just to say yes,we are doing XYZ at the moment.Not a stunning silence,which causes rumour to fill the gaps.

kowloon

Break out the Jaffa Cakes and we'll have them applying for memberships.

prodg

rrpc there are a lot of us out here doing the work and dont talk about it all the time. if you look at posting 634 by sikamick he is talking about the ssai and not ngb'sl

rrpc

prodg wrote: »

rrpc there are a lot of us out here doing the work and dont talk about it all the time. if you look at posting 634 by sikamick he is talking about the ssai and not ngb'sl

I wasn't specifically referring to Sikamick's post, but he does mention NGB's about six times in that post.

Grizzly, there have been postings on this forum about such things and they just seem to get a few nods and disappear just as quickly. Where's the one about the media relations day in Fermoy a couple of weeks ago?

The stuff Paul Williams has been saying is testament to the fact that the message is getting through, but it's hard work and made harder because some people take a particularly binary view of the media, politicians and anyone else who has had an input into this.

Kryten

Sent this to Joe Costello.
Dear Deputy,

I am very dissapointed with your statement calling on the Minister for Justice to introduce "zero licensing of handguns". Do you really think that this will have any impact on gun crime in this country? Do you really think that the average drug gang killer will be affected by not being able to licence a handgun? All that will happen is the Minister once again destroying a legitimate range of sports. I am a licenced pistol owner. We are law abiding citizens. We have to be. We are entrusted by our Local superintendents with Firearms. The criteia for pistol ownership is very strict. None of us are involved in criminality. You cannot get a licence with a criminal record. We all need to have safe secure storage for our pistols and Eircom monitored alarms. This is not in legislation, but the crime prevention officer who comes to your house will not allow the licence to be issues unless these measures are in place. This makes it very difficult for criminals to steal your pistol. It is also difficult to steal your pistol if they dont know you have one. Secrecy is the best security.
The only valid reason for aquiring a licenced handgun in this country is for target shooting. Only members of authorised target shooting clubs are even eligible for consideration for a pistol licence. I have no problem with tightening up the licencing laws, but a total ban is only punishing innocent people who have done no wrong. Some of our shooters compete Nationally and Internationally in competition. Some take medals from these competitions. It would be a total injustice to suddenly destroy their sport and any chances of someday representing Ireland in World Championships or Olympics.

Yours in Sport

cavan shooter

kryten
Thats an excellent letter you should send it to the press.
well done

rrpc

And everyone else should do likewise. It takes as much time as it does to post here and these people are supposed to represent us.

Dear Senator Costello

I read with horror your statement on yesterdays gangland killing where you stated that there should be zero handgun licensing in this state. Yet again, one of our public elected representatives has wittingly turned the focus of blame for criminality on the most law abiding citizens of this state.

Is this Labour Party policy? Because if it is, I will be advising all our members that the Labour Party is most assuredly not a party for the people it purports to represent and certainly cannot be seen to be in the vanguard in the fight against crime if it is so blinkered as to believe that licensed firearms owners are responsible for gangland killings.

Together with the Minister for Justice, you are conspiring to deflect public attention from the very real shortcomings within our criminal justice system and the Ministers own failings.

Well done.

Yours sincerely