Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

Sparks

I suspect it might be harder than that BS - I'm pretty sure the gardai can't just give stuff out at will

rrpc

Meyer wrote: »

A friend of mine was granted a licence, only to have it held back when he went looking for his article 7. The reason his Super gave was that a new order had been issued from Headquarters to not grant anymore pistol licences.

It's the Minister's job to issue article 11's and AFAIK the article 7 doesn't come under the fireams acts, so in that case he can refuse to issue them and your licence is as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

Sparks

Heard from a reliable-but-unidentifiable-on-here source about the 'letter': it's a reminder on a previous letter, which outlined to Superintendents that people seeking pistol licences should be informed of the Ministers statement in November, where he said that any pistol licence granted after his announcement will be revoked by retrospective legislation to be included in the Miscellaneous Provisions Bill.

We might split that aspect of this thread off into a thread of its own later.

Grizzly 45

BTW .Has anyone got any closer to IDing these mysterious 35 stolen liscensed handguns that were issued PRE the liscenseing of 2003?

milkerman

Sparks wrote: »

Heard from a reliable-but-unidentifiable-on-here source about the 'letter': it's a reminder on a previous letter, which outlined to Superintendents that people seeking pistol licences should be informed of the Ministers statement in November, where he said that any pistol licence granted after his announcement will be revoked by retrospective legislation to be included in the Miscellaneous Provisions Bill.

We might split that aspect of this thread off into a thread of its own later.

I have this also from a friendly Garda source - a reminder was issued to each division stating that applicants were to be informed that licences granted post the Ministers statement would not be renewed.
Only thing I can say as a public servant is that if I received such an instruction I would be notifying applicants of this fact in writing - not by means of a phonecall or verbally. The applicant could claim at a later stage that he was not notified at all or that the message was unclear.
The way this business is being conducted reflects poorly on the professionalism of the Minister, the Department and the Gardai.

dimebag249

Sparks wrote: »

Heard from a reliable-but-unidentifiable-on-here source about the 'letter': it's a reminder on a previous letter, which outlined to Superintendents that people seeking pistol licences should be informed of the Ministers statement in November, where he said that any pistol licence granted after his announcement will be revoked by retrospective legislation to be included in the Miscellaneous Provisions Bill.

We might split that aspect of this thread off into a thread of its own later.

Forgive my ignorance, but would a retroactive or retrospective (or whatever the term is) law like that even be legal? It would be damned unjust at the very least.



From wikipedia:

[edit] Ireland
The imposition of retroactive criminal sanctions is prohibited by Article 15.5.1° of the constitution of the Republic of Ireland. Retroactive changes of the civil law have also been found to violate the constitution when they would have resulted in the loss in a right to damages before the courts, the Irish Supreme Court having found that such a right is a constitutionally protected property right.

Clever person explain please.

Sparks

Somehow I think you're right dime; if so, they'd probably just refuse to renew come August 1.
It'd make an interesting thread over in Legal Discussion...

rrpc

In this case it's not retroactive or retrospective. It's more like futurespective: i.e. acting on a law that hasn't been formulated yet.

Retrospective would be passing a law now and applying it to the past.

Sparks

True - the Supers aren't doing it right (as said above). But if they're being asked to remind folks that a licence granted now may not be renewed come August because of an upcoming law, that's, well, fair. Odd as it sounds to say that about the licencing system

bunny shooter

Why does the Gov't want to ban pistols?

Are they worried about something

Sparks

Yes, to be frank, but that's not to say their concern is well-founded or their action just and equitable...

Grizzly 45

He must be setting a trend around Europe ,our Willie .This is apprently the Polish defence minister..:eek::eek:[Who IMHO is better looking:D]

And we were giving out about Wilies pic and gun saftey??Check out the dude in the second row!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek:

BTW anyone speak/read Polish here? This pic was from the local Wroclaw newspaper in Dec 08.

Sparks

At least none of our lot were pointing a gun at the back of his head at the time...

Kryten

Polish Defence Minister, a babe!!!:D:D

We have Groucho Marx ;)

meathstevie

A picture of that minister will have the squaddies marching until their feet are worn away .

As for the pistol licences, what a load of bollixollogy. Acting on pure hearsay or having to apply a law retroactively whenever a minister gets a bee in his bonnet....:mad:....This government is unreal. They can't even organise something as simple as a bit of legislation with a set date stating that it is impossible to have a handgun for sporting or recreational use after that date passes and that all until than legitimate owners can surrender their pistols and revolvers within 30 days to a Garda station of their choice where they will be issued with a receipt which they can use to claim compensation from the DoJ for the value of the firearm and accessories surrendered.

Please note that I'm fundamentally against a handgun ban for reasons of scaremongering.

chem

From what im hearing handguns are only the start. How does a complete ban on firearms ownership sound.............. and im not joking:eek:

If the minister can ban handguns when they are not the problem when it comes to them been robbed from homes. Think of the stats he can produce to justify banning shotguns as they are the most commonly stolen.

The minister said himself that he will be looking at every type of firearm and weigh up how much of a danger it is to the country.

Sparks

chem, what are you hearing and from whom? C'mon now, you're scaring the children.

Trojan911

chem wrote: »

The minister said himself that he will be looking at every type of firearm and weigh up how much of a danger it is to the country.

Is he suggesting that a .22 is not as lethal as a .308?

Sparks

I think he was saying he'd go and ask if that was the case.

paul1972

there is alot of scaremongering going on for sure munster is full of rumours ect about what is going to or supposed to be happening what is important is all shooting sports stand together and make it clear to their local td,s that banning or restricting further any legitimate shooting sport is going to affect votes . there is so much scaremongering and rumour that nobody knows whats what

daveob007

does anyone know whats going on with the new firearms misc bill?????
it was supposed to be published in febuary but still no official word as yet
there was a meeting of all range operators recently with new guidelines set out for the operation of ranges ut still no word on our handguns.
are they being banned or further restricted or what the hell.
is dermot ahern still thinking about it or putting further conditions on us,
are they to be banned on saturdays and sundays or wet days?????

there are more people killed by knives and stolen cars than there are by guns in ireland so why is the minister not putting restrictions on car ownership and their security
should they be locked up and alarmed just incase they are stolen and used to commit a crime???? or kill someone????
a garda was badly injured last week by a stolen car and 2 guards were killed last year by another stolen car,
if stolen guns were used to commit these crimes we would certainly be facing a complete ban.

Sparks

it was supposed to be published in febuary but still no official word as yet

It's been delayed because it's the Criminal Justice (Misc. Provisions) Bill and has stuff other than firearms stuff in it; it's due for publication very very shortly. There's an FCP meeting on April 2; it's expected to be published either immediately before or immediately after that meeting.

there was a meeting of all range operators recently with new guidelines set out for the operation of ranges ut still no word on our handguns.

Yes and no. Yes, there was a meeting of range operators, but that was a meeting to lay out the guidelines for ranges and clubs, not to go over the handgun stuff (though that didn't stop a lot of folks from very unhelpfully hijacking the meeting to get shouty and thus not look at the clubs and ranges SIs, something that probably will come back to bite us all later). And no, there has been stuff said about handguns - namely the Ministers stuff in November. Beyond that, there's been nothing.

bigred

Sparks wrote: »

There's an FCP meeting on April 2; it's expected to be published either immediately before or immediately after that meeting.

You're not getting a last-minute April Fool in here Sparks?? So today's the big day?

daveob007

I sent an e-mail to my local TD and Minister Willie O’Dea a while back expressing my concerns over the new bill and to object to the way that we shooting sports people are being placed in the same category as those who commit murders and other serious crime.
He did reply and forwarded my letter to Dermot Ahern to which I got a reply by post.
I was very frustrated with both replies because both letters had exactly the same old wording as we have been hearing for the last few months, the number and types of guns/stolen guns/Dunblane/gun culture like the USA, etc, etc, etc.
We seem to be up against a brick wall with these people and they seem to have made up their tiny minds in relation to the matter.
Also the comments made by FG John Deasy on TV3’s Lawless Ireland recently, none of this misinformation helps us.
Thankfully the TV program held an interview with Des Crofton who did a good job on rubbishing Mr. Deasy’s comments.
Now with the European and local elections looming we have a chance to air our concerns with all the candidates but will probably hear the same old thing again.
However don’t be put off keep onto them.
Wait and see what happens...

jwshooter

daveob007 wrote: »

I sent an e-mail to my local TD and Minister Willie O’Dea a while back expressing my concerns over the new bill and to object to the way that we shooting sports people are being placed in the same category as those who commit murders and other serious crime.
He did reply and forwarded my letter to Dermot Ahern to which I got a reply by post.
I was very frustrated with both replies because both letters had exactly the same old wording as we have been hearing for the last few months, the number and types of guns/stolen guns/Dunblane/gun culture like the USA, etc, etc, etc.
We seem to be up against a brick wall with these people and they seem to have made up their tiny minds in relation to the matter.
Also the comments made by FG John Deasy on TV3’s Lawless Ireland recently, none of this misinformation helps us.
Thankfully the TV program held an interview with Des Crofton who did a good job on rubbishing Mr. Deasy’s comments.
Now with the European and local elections looming we have a chance to air our concerns with all the candidates but will probably hear the same old thing again.
However don’t be put off keep onto them.
Wait and see what happens...

l
it looks lightly that there could be elections on the way ,but who is on our side and who is not .
i am always surprised that the local sporting groups dont inform its members of who they can rely on .
i know i would vote for some one with our interests at heart

Sparks

Hell JW, I can tell you who has our interests at heart.
No-one.
No such thing as an Irish politician who'll risk their political career to defend our sport so long as we have the public image we have. The best we get is tacit approval of anything tied to the olympic rings, and that's only because of the public image of the olympics.
You want political support?
Start writing to your local paper, your local councillors, your local TDs (*all of them*) about how great your sport is, and who's doing well in it, and where you want them to support you.
Not to put too fine a point on it, the reason we don't have more political support is because we don't have many shooters doing that kind of thing - damn near none, in fact.

Sikamick

Exactly JW, WHO is the all important question. We know where and who the uproar came from (OM-JD) and then the Minister jumps on the political band wagon.

So again I ask WHO.

Sikamick

Sikamick

Sparks wrote: »

Hell JW, I can tell you who has our interests at heart.
No-one.
No such thing as an Irish politician who'll risk their political career to defend our sport so long as we have the public image we have. The best we get is tacit approval of anything tied to the olympic rings, and that's only because of the public image of the olympics.
You want political support?
Start writing to your local paper, your local councillors, your local TDs (*all of them*) about how great your sport is, and who's doing well in it, and where you want them to support you.

Not to put too fine a point on it, the reason we don't have more political support is because we don't have many shooters doing that kind of thing - damn near none, in fact.

________________________________________________________________


Not to put too fine a point on it, the reason we don't have more political support is because we don't have many shooters doing that kind of thing - damn near none, in fact.[/QUOTE]Sparks



And because certain people in the past put the frighteners on the people in Justice with their table banging and I want everything attitude.

Sikamick

G17

This is not directed to any particular poster.....

Regarding politicians, who work for us and give a sh1t in my opinion despite what all you bitter cynics with a grand plan might say. I don't want to post their replies/thoughts here but I have sent many letters and visited a couple of clinics, I know EXACTLY who'll be getting my vote based on their response or indeed lack of response. With the misc. bill pending, don't come moaning later that someone should have done something.

If you haven't bothered your holes contacting your local politicians, you should A. contact them, or B. take up Golf.

kakashka

+1