Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

TargetWidow

Cabinet Proposes Blanket Ban on Ladies Tights

Today the Minister for Idiocy met with the cabinet to secure agreement on a blanket ban on Ladies Tights. "Public safety is paramount" said the Minister, "And I cannot tolerate a situation where a policy decision has not been made on these tights falling into the wrong hands and being used in Bank robberies and murders".

"I appreciate that the vast majority of people who use ladies tights are decent people but it is the minority that are putting public safety in danger, and anyway the vast majority of people who wear stuff on their legs have no interest in ladies tights so it will only be a minor inconvenience to a few".

Whatever next...:D

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

Legal issues like what? I mean, I can see ethical and moral issues aplenty, but actual legal ones?

Agreed. The problem is, we don't really have legal recourse here in any meaningful way. The law is the law, and it's now within the minister's power to make all licences non-renewable next July, then the only firearms in the country are illegal ones or those of the Gardai or Army, by defintion.

bunny shooter

Vegeta wrote: »

.............I'm not going to send any more letters until the FCP has met again. Hopefully they will give us some direction on how to proceed.

Are you serious? Let me see how much direction have they given us previously? Sod all from where I am. So why will they start now? IMO bit too late. The damage has been done. As they say no need to close the stable door when the horse has bolted.

My pistol licence will probably be revoked. I am surprised it has taken this long to be honest. From day one I said this would happen and I am not being smug here. I had it, I enjoyed it, and life goes on. All my other firearms (4) are outside to proposed "Restricted List" as it was. However will this change? I now have an air rifle with a black stock, maybe ths will be "restricted" as we al know black gun stocks are dangerous in the same way Glocks are.

My membership of an authorised range will no longer be needed to justify and use my pistol. Having chatted with fellow pistol shooters they feel the same way. Therefore, range membership is likely to fall considerably.

But it's ok cause certain ranges will survive as their firearms aren't gonna be banned, sorry "restricted".

packas

jwshooter wrote: »

the narge is a one man show bunny ,can people not see what is going on here ,the practical, tactical shooters call it what you will the powers that be dont want irish citizen's running about shooting glocks and the like ,learning combat shooting . the rest of the shooting bodies are thrown them to the lions so to speak to stay in favour with the state . but it has been coming for a long time

No legitimate sports person wants to be involved in tactical & combat shooting. I do hope you're not referring to IPSC shooting? Don't forget that the IPSC European Handgun championships last year in France were organised & run by the French Olympic committee & I'm quite sure the olympic committee don't want to be associated with tactical or combat shooting & neither do IPSC/IPSA.

regards
Pat.

packas

Vegeta wrote: »

Anyone get a response from the DoJ?

I'm not going to send any more letters until the FCP has met again. Hopefully they will give us some direction on how to proceed.

Does anyone know where the SSAI & FCP stand on all this? They seem very quiet? Are the SSAI not supposed to be representing all target shooting bodies in Ireland?

bunny shooter

Pakas,

Are you really that naive? Or trying to convince the uneducated?

I am serving RDF (FCA) and I am qualified to carry a pistol, namely H&K USP in 9mm. When I do my range practice I fire from fixed positions at a fixed target. Only in one practice do I move and that is in a straigt line towards the target. This is current military pistol training. Now having done a little practical pistol shooting and seen more I can confirm there is a lot of movement involved and it is very much more "combat" orientated than what I do on any army range.

Do you not think that the powers that be are a little worried that civilians are engaging in "Practial" type shooting considering that even the Army don't. And that doesn't include using bicycles, baths and cars to shoot from;)

bunny shooter

packas wrote: »

Does anyone know where the SSAI & FCP stand on all this? They seem very quiet? Are the SSAI not supposed to be representing all target shooting bodies in Ireland?

No change there If were them I'd keep a low profile

TBH it's not their fault the decks were stacked. They did their best. They got shafted by DOJ/Gardai.

G17

bunny shooter wrote: »

Pakas,

Or trying to convince the uneducated?

From your post that would include you.

IPSC shooting is not a combat sport and you're doing all the people here who enjoy this great sport a huge disservice by your comments.

sfakiaman

TargetWidow wrote: »

Cabinet Proposes Blanket Ban on Ladies Tights

Today the Minister for Idiocy met with the cabinet to secure agreement on a blanket ban on Ladies Tights. "Public safety is paramount" said the Minister, "And I cannot tolerate a situation where a policy decision has not been made on these tights falling into the wrong hands and being used in Bank robberies and murders".

"I appreciate that the vast majority of people who use ladies tights are decent people but it is the minority that are putting public safety in danger, and anyway the vast majority of people who wear stuff on their legs have no interest in ladies tights so it will only be a minor inconvenience to a few".

The minister is surely not talking about legaly aquired tights. He must be thinking of ones stolen from clothes lines or, god forbid, unwashed ones stolen from unattended washbaskets. I wonder does the minister wear fishnets and suspenders.

Sparks

packas wrote: »

Does anyone know where the SSAI & FCP stand on all this? They seem very quiet?

Hang on packas, isn't IPSA a full member of the SSAI now?

Are the SSAI not supposed to be representing all target shooting bodies in Ireland?

Nope. Never were either (as the ICPSA, NARGC, and a few others would tell you).

Sparks

And Bunny&Co, if you're looking for the "lets all stand together" approach, you really can't be trying to take lumps out of each other in the process. How about dropping the whole ISSF/IPSC/WA1500/IDPA/Whatever scraps, or at least pushing the pause button for a while?

kerryman12

Guys

I have to agree with Vegeta here:

I'm not going to send any more letters until the FCP has met again. Hopefully they will give us some direction on how to proceed.

Some sort of direction needs to be given here, otherwise we are all pulling in different direction. Some sort of statement is need to advise those interested to contact local TD's the DOJ or write letters to the papers. WE need to focus if we are to get anywhere.

delop

First time poster in this area of boards, I hope an outsiders opinion will not be unwelcome....

I and most people I’ve asked over the past few days since this became an issue in the media believed that all handguns were banned in Ireland. I for one and I’m sure I’m not alone, do not want to live in a country where private individuals are running around with concealed weapons. While Im sure 99% of owners feel that it’s a legitimate sport. There is bound to be a number of lads who fancy themselves as closet Gi-Joes, and all it takes is for one dodgy mental’er to go out and do something stupid and cause another Dunblane.

In this case as disappointing as it may be to some members, I believe the Government should error on the side of caution. This can always be reviewed in a few years

It wasn't me!

Was checking Politics a few minutes ago, saw a thread on this and expected it wouldn't be pretty. However, upon reading it, it's basically entirely rational and clear-headed. I was shocked and pleased. Perhaps Minister Ahern should be directed to read the opinions of non-shooters and acknowledge that his smokescreen isn't thick enough and is being seen through, and therefore pointless.

It wasn't me!

delop wrote: »

I for one and I’m sure I’m not alone, do not want to live in a country where private individuals are running around with concealed weapons.

Then it's a good thing this is still completely illegal. I'm not attacking your views, but I feel I have to point out that this is not something it's fair to accuse people of doing. I mean, ultimately, if people are going to carry things, they'll carry knives as well. You don't attack the object, you attack the scumbag carrying it when you legislate. Anything else is just silly.

While Im sure 99% of owners feel that it’s a legitimate sport. There is bound to be a number of lads who fancy themselves as closet Gi-Joes, and all it takes is for one dodgy mental’er to go out and do something stupid and cause another Dunblane.

A serious allegation. Really, that's not going to be taken here. If you'd been through the background checks and inspections required to be awarded a firearms certificate for any firearm, never mind a pistol, you'd be insulted by the suggestion that inevitably this will happen, because it's not remotely inevitable.

In this case as disappointing as it may be to some members, I believe the Government should error on the side of caution. This can always be reviewed in a few years

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that this is erring on the side of caution. It's a smokescreen to deflect attention from the serious deficiencies of the government, and as is visible on the politics forum, it hasn't worked.

Sparks

delop wrote: »

First time poster in this area of boards, I hope an outsiders opinion will not be unwelcome....

No civil opinion is unwelcome here. By order of the management

I and most people I’ve asked over the past few days since this became an issue in the media believed that all handguns were banned in Ireland. I for one and I’m sure I’m not alone, do not want to live in a country where private individuals are running around with concealed weapons. While Im sure 99% of owners feel that it’s a legitimate sport. There is bound to be a number of lads who fancy themselves as closet Gi-Joes, and all it takes is for one dodgy mental’er to go out and do something stupid and cause another Dunblane.

That's a hypothetical that it's hard to dissuade people from... up until they find out what it takes to get a pistol licence, ie, you have to personally show a Garda Superintendent that you have a good reason to have the firearm, a safe secure place to store it (and that's verified by a home visit from your Crime Prevention Officer to evaluate you against the guidelines from the National Crime Prevention Unit), membership of a firing range where you'll be using it, you have to grant him access to your medical records, and you have to comply with any and all preconditions he sets on your licence above all of that.

Getting a "dodgy mental'er" through that process? Good luck.

In this case as disappointing as it may be to some members, I believe the Government should error on the side of caution. This can always be reviewed in a few years

No firearms law ever passed in Ireland has ever been rescinded.
It's a one-way ratchet.

tiny-nioclas

Our local papers out today, main headline DEASY RECIEVES 20 HATE E-MAILS FOR HANDGUN CALL, he goes on to say a load of garbage himself, a few examples are calling handgun owners, "extremist gun enthusiasts", "as far as the handgun lobby is concerned, if they think myself and my collegues are going to be quitened by nasty e mails, they are making a big mistake. i believe that while we are intent on keeping our police force unarmed, we should'nt be arming the public with handguns", "there should be a total ban on these weapons with strict exceptions agreed upon by the gardai", " i dont think these e mails are represantative of the target shooting club membership around the country"

Supposedly he was called stupid and perverse, im not too sure about the perverse bit though


Lets hope next election people wont be electing celebrities or would be celebrities, id rather a real politician representing us.

sfakiaman

delop wrote: »

First time poster in this area of boards, I hope an outsiders opinion will not be unwelcome....

I and most people I’ve asked over the past few days since this became an issue in the media believed that all handguns were banned in Ireland. I for one and I’m sure I’m not alone, do not want to live in a country where private individuals are running around with concealed weapons.

Did you consider that the reason you and others did not know that handguns were licenced in ROI is that licenced handguns have caused no problems. People here do not run around with concealed firearms unless it's in the boot of the car under lock and key going to and from the range.

You can sleep easy, it's only the criminals you have to worry about.

Dvs

delop wrote: »

First time poster in this area of boards, I hope an outsiders opinion will not be unwelcome....

I and most people I’ve asked over the past few days since this became an issue in the media believed that all handguns were banned in Ireland. I for one and I’m sure I’m not alone, do not want to live in a country where private individuals are running around with concealed weapons. While Im sure 99% of owners feel that it’s a legitimate sport. There is bound to be a number of lads who fancy themselves as closet Gi-Joes, and all it takes is for one dodgy mental’er to go out and do something stupid and cause another Dunblane.

In this case as disappointing as it may be to some members, I believe the Government should error on the side of caution. This can always be reviewed in a few years

Hello delop,
Your opinion is not unwelcome,
However it is based on false information,
Their is no civilian concealed carry in Ireland,
all handguns licences are for sport shooting on ranges.

Handgun sport shooters are engaged in,
shooting recognised legitimate shooting disciplines,
that are competed in worldwide,
not all of the disciplines are Olympic sports,
that does not make them any less legitimate.

If you are talking numbers of competitors taking part,
many non Olympic disciplines are much bigger,
Both in Ireland and abroad.

If not being a recognised Olympic sport makes a sport,
not a real sport and somehow less than a sport,
can someone please inform the GAA.

Dvs

delop

Sparks wrote: »

Getting a "dodgy mental'er" through that process? Good luck.

Though I have no experience in firearm related matters, I do have some experience in the mental health field, and as you might suspect , with mental health you just never know, an individual might be perfectly fine one year and later on down the road they may have an episode.

But I suppose as i read earlier in the tread you have to renew this license every year, so I guess its up to the body to make sure the holder should/should not be allowed to renew...

Last comment by me: I don't have enough knowledge of the process to comment further, I was just trying to give a layman's/uneducated opinion on the matter

It wasn't me!

delop wrote: »

I was just trying to give a layman's/uneducated opinion on the matter

And that's not a problem. We're always happy to see someone ask questions and go away a little more educated.

Sparks

delop wrote: »

Though I have no experience in firearm related matters, I do have some experience in the mental health field, and as you might suspect , with mental health you just never know, an individual might be perfectly fine one year and later on down the road they may have an episode.

I've a little knowlege of that area myself, and frankly, there's no way to know if the Minister for Justice will have a psychotic break tomorrow (his car exhaust system has a malfunction, CO leaks into the car's interior, he has a reaction to it and then we're picking bits of golf club out of the Taoiseach's head).
But while we're on this kind of "you never know" mentality, how are we going to cope with the possibility of a rain of fish making the M50 undrivable? Shouldn't all drivers carry fish chains (like snow chains but bigger) in the boot of their car, just in case?
But what if the drivers have a psychotic break because of the surprise of the rain of fish? Wouldn't they use the fish chains to beat each other to death in an orgy of road rage?
Won't someone stop the madness?

But I suppose as i read earlier in the tread you have to renew this license every year, so I guess its up to the body to make sure the holder should/should not be allowed to renew...

Exactly.

Last comment by me: I don't have enough knowledge of the process to comment further, I was just trying to give a layman's/uneducated opinion on the matter

And I'm not trying to be unreasonably sarcastic, but these are issues that were thought of before, mostly during the drafting of the 1925 Firearms Act. And by and large, that act has worked relatively well.

Rew

delop wrote: »

There is bound to be a number of lads who fancy themselves as closet Gi-Joes, and all it takes is for one dodgy mental’er to go out and do something stupid and cause another Dunblane.

Dunblane was a failing of the UK Police not of firearms law. They had every opertunity to prevent the tragedy as I understand it. Gun crime in the UK has has gotten much much worse desipte an armed police force and a complete ban on handguns.

That aside you don't need a handgun (or a firearm of any kind) to do something as horific as that. Unfortunaltly there is little or nothing in this world that cann't be used as on offencive weapon. Cars, knifes and cigarettes will kill more peole this year then guns of any kind will in next 10 or 20 years. I think the appalling state of our health care system is a far bigger risk to life then licenced firearms will ever be.

You have to put some perspective on this, the public is being led to belive that senseless murders like that of Shane Geogan will be avoided by this and that is not the case.

G17

Interestingly; I recently brought a large group of curious colleagues to the range.

I have been inundated with phone calls, emails and 'drop ins' over the last few days. Comments such as - "Why are they banning them?", "what's the danger to the public", "it couldn't be safer", "how could a criminal get a licence", "did we not see a Glock at the range, what's so dangerous about that?"......etc. etc.

The common sense over on the politics forum is also very heartening to read.

Joe/Jo Public is well able to read past the headlines it seems. With a little more info they could well become very annoyed at this smokescreen.

If you have a guest facility at your ranges, now's the time to bring 'em in.

BryanL

could anyone like Sparks post a picture of some of the handguns used for sport here.
Delop, most of us share your concern for public safety, but one issue we have is that nothing is being done about Limerick, nothing in this takes guns away from criminals, there has been no issue of public safety with licenced guns in Ireland so how does this move make things safer for use.
We're not allowed fireworks in Ireland in case we blow ourselves!
I cycle to and from work everyday i know i'm in more danger from cars than guns!
Bryan

Sparks

People who see our stuff for themselves usually have that reaction G17. Truth is, for someone who watches hollywood films, we're the most boring sport going.

foxhunter

[QUOTE=G17;

The common sense over on the politics forum is also very heartening to read.

QUOTE]

There is an interesting pole over on the legal discussion forum at the minute aswell.

Sparks

BryanL wrote: »

could anyone like Sparks post a picture of some of the handguns used for sport here.

I have photos of a lot of ISSF stuff, but not much from other shooting sports.

Competition photos here.

And we have a sheet of small photos of ISSF pistols as well:


But that's just the ISSF stuff, the other groups will have photos of their stuff.

paul1972

sharps wrote: »

Well its now offical, on radio news at 9.00 this morning it was announced that All pistols are now banned for everyone due to the gun crime in limerick, licences will not be renewed in July, this is not a maybe or a might happen, it has happened, pistols are gone.

its not just limerick inocent people have been murdered all over the country . and i cant see where the connection is between leagally held pistols is and the illegal guns these cretans have,,,, all there guns are illegal so i dont think any new restrictions will bother them very much ,,they also seem fond of shotguns are they "next"..the shooting bodies need to stand together on this and fight for the rights of all responsible gun owners and not say this does not affect me as i dont own pistols i ownly shoot clays,, this is about all gun ownership ,,what happens if the next innocent is murdered with a deer rifle.........this affects everybody and its time to start lobbying

Sparks

Okay, that's it. The four of us mods are not interested in modding a squabble between shooting disciplines today, so cut this stuff out please. Now. Or take a week off from the forum.