Speeding ticket on Naas Road

TheNog

Traumadoc wrote: »

you rarely see the speed cameras on dangerous roads -I have seen one on the N 11 between the beehive and the tap once, and therehas been a fall off in rtas there, the bends have been straightened there also.
I nearly always see a speed camera van on the m1 under the bridge on the way to the airport. But honestly I really do not believe that it saves lives, sure it may catch hundreds of people doing 90 in an 80 section of motorway.
if you want to speed in this country you can on country lanes speed cameras here both visable and covert would save more lives.

Why do you think I am close minded?

Because everyone, including yourself (maybe I'm wrong) believes they are an expert in policing but yet not one person on this thread and many others has asked why speed checks are done on the Naas road or the M1 or why they are not done or not seen to be done on the back roads. Why is that? Its because people reckon they know more on how to police than the actual police themselves.

Now before you say it, I'm gonna cover it. I welcome people asking questions or pointing out possible flaws in the Gardai. You have seen that in the ES forum and I regularly post here too.
What I don't like to see is people saying phrases such as "quotas, nothing better to do, I pay your wages, why don't you catch real criminals". What people are really saying is "Why don't you catch someone else but me". Total lack of responsibility for ones actions imo.

Boggles wrote: »

Why the need to point that out? The article was pretty much self explanatary.

Was just bigging up the topic you brought up. Nothing more.

Traumadoc

I am not an expert on policing, being a police person does not make you on expert either, I was pointing out that most people are killed on country roads, and there appears to be less enforcement of speeding laws in the country than in the city, this may be due to lack of resources, other factors or laziness or I may be totally wrong .
there have been 4 deaths on the 40km of country road I drive in the last 3 years I have yet to see a speed trap or gatso van there

TheNog

eringobragh wrote: »

Not really took a few seconds to tweek it didn't expect our forces so poor so they'd to resort to such tactics, and you wonder ehy they lack the support of the general public

Took a few seconds?? Why did it take you a few seconds? Not fully concentrating on the road ahead maybe. I have already explained to you why guards use different methods to catch those breaking the law and the tactics used by people to try to get away with it. Now don't get me wrong I'm not a big fan of people getting done for being 10 or 15kph over the limit. I'd be more interested in the piss takers who are doing well above he limit.

Last public perception survey but an overall safisfaction rating of 89% for the gardai. Thats not bad. Room for improvement but not bad.

eringobragh wrote: »

Nor do speeders?? You set a van where the majority of people speed and monitor who commit speeding offences ie 80k ibefore the 120 on the M1... Same principle for example survelliance in Moyross, etc in Limerick plenty of gang crime there, subsitutue majority of speeders for shooters.

You answered that yourself (in italics above).

Are you not involved in the Legal end yourself? If you are then you should know that proper legislation is not in place for surveillance to be used as evidence. This is being corrected though. You should also know what is involved in getting a person who fears for their life to make a statement against a drug dealer. Remember that if it was to go to court the drug dealer would then have access to all the statements which has the peoples names on it.
Limerick now has more guards than ever before it will probably be increased too.

Also surveillance costs a bomb. It has and is being used but its not as simple as you see in the movies or The Bill.

eringobragh wrote: »

Well Capable of monitoring the side of the road that helped me avoid that
VAn along with many others, Unfortuantely when on a motorway you need to concentrate on the road ahead rather than a pen pusher shooting fish in a barrell

When on a Motorway or any type of road you need to keep on eye on traffic ahead, behind and at the side of you.

Fish in a barrel. Why do people associate themselves as fish? Again if a person didn't see that van in plenty of time then maybe they have the brain capacity of a fish.

Its a no brainer. The fish are revenue donators. Eejits :pac:

TheNog

Traumadoc wrote: »

I am not an expert on policing, being a police person does not make you on expert either,

Agreed. I still have plenty to learn but I do know alot more than the average Joe soap on policing though.

Traumadoc wrote: »

I was pointing out that most people are killed on country roads, and there appears to be less enforcement of speeding laws in the country than in the city, this may be due to lack of resources, other factors or laziness or I may be totally wrong .

It has taken four post on this thread to get to the point of having a reasonable discussion from

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57963672&postcount=19 wrote:

this

post.
It may seem that speeding laws are not enforced as much down the country possibly due to the higher mileage of roads to cover and less gardai on duty at any particular time than in the city. My district is apporx 150km in circumference. In one 8 hr shift I could drive 200 miles and still not cover all the roads in the district.

Traumadoc wrote: »

there have been 4 deaths on the 40km of country road I drive in the last 3 years I have yet to see a speed trap or gatso van there

On that the stretch of road where 4 people were killed, tell me how many minutes each day does it take you to travel that part of the road. I'm guessing no more than 10-15 minutes going one way so maybe 30 minutes each day. That's only 30 minutes of the day out of 24hrs that you don't see a patrol car on the road or gatso van. Its a drop in the ocean mate. Speed checks could be done at different times and locations on this road you speak of.

Traumadoc

TheNog wrote: »

Because everyone, including yourself (maybe I'm wrong) believes they are an expert in policing but yet not one person on this thread and many others has asked why speed checks are done on the Naas road or the M1 or why they are not done or not seen to be done on the back roads. Why is that? Its because people reckon they know more on how to police than the actual police themselves.




Was just bigging up the topic you brought up. Nothing more.

I did ask why there were no speed checks on back roads -you replied it was too dangerous -you then called me closed minded !

robbie99

.

Traumadoc

40 km in 15 mins - 160 kmph
I have done this road 5 days a week for the last three years (2 hours a day ) 400 km per week , 20 k a year

TheNog

Traumadoc wrote: »

I did ask why there were no speed checks on back roads -you replied it was too dangerous -you then called me closed minded !

There are checks done on back roads. My whole district is one back road and we manage to do 2-3 checks a shift with 3 shifts a day. In the last year and a half we have had 2 fatalities but none of these could have been prevented unfortunately.

Anyway back to your question. You described the roads as dangerous, narrow, killer roads but yet you expect a guard to do a speed check on them. If the road is already dangerous why would you want to add in another danger?

When doing a speed check I do a risk assessment of the road, conditions and volume of traffic. I do this because people tend to do silly things when they see a guard on the roadside. Silly things like braking hard and possibly causing their car to skid, trying to put on a seatbelt when driving and holding a mobile.
Honest to god if you are ever offered to sit in the back seat of a patrol car and drive around for just 2-3 hours you would see what I mean. I have seen some of the craziest stuff on the roads that most people don't see.

TheNog

Traumadoc wrote: »

40 km in 15 mins - 160 kmph
I have done this road 5 days a week for the last three years (2 hours a day ) 400 km per week , 20 k a year

Can you give me the times you travel at?

Traumadoc

630 in the morning 530 going home

Davidth88

Honest to god if you are ever offered to sit in the back seat of a patrol car and drive around for just 2-3 hours you would see what I mean. I have seen some of the craziest stuff on the roads that most people don't see.

I do understand , but as a general member of the public , I too see the craziest things like.

Garda patrol cars driving past parked up cars on the motorway hard shoulder ( with people in them ) . Put it this way I have NEVER seen a Garda car next to a stationary car on the hard shoulder which I think you will agree is about the most dangerous place a normal person can be subjected to.

Garda cars sitting on the hard shoulder speed trapping when three hundred yards further down the m/way there was a family stopped and the kids playing on the h/shoulder. ( yes I saw it on the M7 near Kildare ).

Garda cars ignoring what I would describe as blatant bad driving.

And all the time I see speed traps on roads where the limit is obviously 'wrong'
or speed traps just before the limit changes half a mile out of a village ( ie the typical ' fish in a barrel ' bit )

Do you think this gives me confidence in the policing of the roads in general , do you think as a generally law abiding motorist I feel comfortable with this ?
This is why the general motoring public feel ' put upon'.

Now of course I don't know that the Garda cars I see ignoring bad driving/driving past parked cars on the motorway are not on their way to an urgent call ( although they don't have their lights on ) or that they didn't check on the stationary car 15 mins ago, but I think you get my drift.

I too feel these Gatso vans ( and the fixed cameras ) are not as effective as they could be. If I got a fixed pen notice in the post it's for something I did xx weeks ago that I have forgotten about. If I got pulled and had a stern talking to ( plus a fixed pen notice ) which is going to have most effect on my future driving behaviour ? And while you are at it you can ' smell my breath' , check tax/insurance/state of the car etc.

I.S.T.

TheNog wrote: »

These posts always make me laugh. People always try to shift the blame away from them and onto the guards or the great road or the fact they have busy lives or never cause anyone any trouble.

I have never been caught speeding there so you can't accuse me of that. It is obvious to everyone with their eyes open that this particular Gatso location is purely to generate revenue and increase quotas.

I.S.T.

TheNog wrote: »

If a person is unfamiliar with the road then surely increased attention is required?? Poor signage or not the speed signs are clear enough and are the same size and colour nationwide/

I am extremely familiar with the road but I am still not sure of the speed limit. Everytime I come through there the speed limit seems to have changed. And it is very poorly signposted. In any other walk of life you cannot be penalised for something you are not given adequate notice of, (self-employed paying tax for example, they are given reminder after reminder on the radio and TV of the deadline to file their returns) so why should it be any different for speeding?

leon8v

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

. And this road is clearly markd with speed signs.

That is not really the case, AS you come off the M50 southbound, by the time you see the first speed limit sign you could potentially have been caught.

@the Nog, Not going to get into the garda bashing on speed traps as there are plenty of others to cover that but do you know the statistics with regard to no of road deaths in Co. Dublin, as in % of overall total and then the % of overall total of speed checks carried out in Dublin??? ?

kuro_man

As OP, I would like to say that I don't disagree with the speed limit on the Naas Road (at Fox & Geese), I don't disagree that I exceeded it and I have annoyance, but no argument with the ticket. Its the first time I ever got points, so understandably, I'm a bit p*ssed off.

I just wanted to know if there was a permenent camera there.

I.S.T.

kuro_man wrote: »

As OP, I would like to say that I don't disagree with the speed limit on the Naas Road (at Fox & Geese), I don't disagree that I exceeded it and I have annoyance, but no argument with the ticket. Its the first time I ever got points, so understandably, I'm a bit p*ssed off.

I just wanted to know if there was a permenent camera there.

Answer is no. You can check the location of all fixed and frequent mobile cameras on www.irishspeedtraps.com

a_chara

Firstly mondeo you completely missed my point altogether, you took the argument i made for one point and used it to make out that i was arguing an entirely seperate point with the same explanation, if you're qouting me qoute me in context.

Also The Nog I never said this was an issue about the guards, I have nothing but repect for every gaurd on the street but it disgusts me that they are being robbed of the power of common sense by the decision making of the guys at the top who sit around in the office all day. The guys on the street are simply taking orders from the top nothing really they can do about it, they hardly paid for these vans to be rolled out and hidden away on the side of the road, dunno who's involved in positioning these things doubt it's the guy operating the van but maybe i'm mistaken.

Pretty poor attempt at an argument by criticising people's driving abilities and attention on the road too by the way, you don't know who i am at all and as far as I know you haven't been in the car with me, I've a few certs to prove i'm a good driver and have never had an accident in my life.
The nature of the gatso van itself is flawed, speed traps are meant to be deterents, if people know where there is a speed trap they will slow down, how are they supposed to know if the bloody thing keeps moving around the place. Can you honestly say if you wouldn't normally travel this stretch of 3 lane traffic you'd instinctively know to slow down from 45mph to 30mph at the particular juncture where the speed trap kicks in depite all of the other cars as far as the eye can see doing the same speed as you? The nature of these roads is that the flow of traffic will self regulate the speed of the traffic, people don't look out for speed signs every five seconds because the travel at the same speed as the car in front of them and do absolutely no harm to anybody, how do you know there wasn't trucks either side blocking the view of the speed limit sign?, how do I know for that matter, they send the notice a month later when the thing is wiped from your memory. Have you never exceeded 30mph on this particualr stretch of road? Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone etc. And people were saying tramadoc was narrow minded...

This whole argument is a waste of time anyway because some people will adopt a holier than thou stance toward everything and preach from the pulpit at the sinners below, they will never see the otherside of the argument untill it happens to them, a few very relevent points made by the like of traumadoc and a few others but they just get shot down as poor drivers who can't pay attention to what they are doing.

craichoe

I rarely if ever break speed limits and its not because of the fear of getting caught, its because driving faster than the speed limit cuts very little time off my journey. Cruise control helps as well .. 80kph zone, set the CC to 80 Simple.

If your doing a long distance drive this really becomes apparent. A guy passes you out doing 140kph and your doing 80, 5 minutes later you see the same guy again getting stuck in traffic.

Keeping up your average speed and leaving early enough to make sure you reach your destination in time is the best way to get there. If you know a road is busy at a certain time then either go earlier to avoid it or choose another route, don't stress yourself out trying to 'put the foot down' to make up time, which is a situation that could easily be avoided in the first place.

If you are going to be late for an appointment then .. what can you do ? Apologise and make your excuses.

Public roads are hazerdous, you could be the best driver in the world but the other guy could be a total idiot.

TheNog

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

It is obvious to everyone with their eyes open that this particular Gatso location is purely to generate revenue and increase quotas.

People with their eyes would have also spotted the Gatso van in plenty of time too. The vans are not that hard to spot.

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

I am extremely familiar with the road but I am still not sure of the speed limit. Everytime I come through there the speed limit seems to have changed. And it is very poorly signposted. In any other walk of life you cannot be penalised for something you are not given adequate notice of, (self-employed paying tax for example, they are given reminder after reminder on the radio and TV of the deadline to file their returns) so why should it be any different for speeding?

So what do you want? a text message? How is it poorly signposted? If there is a sign there then you have been notified. Simple as. No need for reminders. They would be just for the forgetful and inattentive drivers.

a_chara wrote: »

Also The Nog I never said this was an issue about the guards, I have nothing but repect for every gaurd on the street but it disgusts me that they are being robbed of the power of common sense by the decision making of the guys at the top who sit around in the office all day. The guys on the street are simply taking orders from the top nothing really they can do about it, they hardly paid for these vans to be rolled out and hidden away on the side of the road, dunno who's involved in positioning these things doubt it's the guy operating the van but maybe i'm mistaken.

One way to create a deterrent is to have warning signs before the actual speed trap but this is pretty useless. It would stop people speeding at a particular part of the road but as soon as they pass by the van speed up again.
Or you could set up a speed trap which is not advertised too well and create the impression within people's mind that "Say hey I won't speed to work today cos there maybe a speed check along my route".

a_chara wrote: »

Pretty poor attempt at an argument by criticising people's driving abilities and attention on the road too by the way, you don't know who i am at all and as far as I know you haven't been in the car with me, I've a few certs to prove i'm a good driver and have never had an accident in my life.

A few certs and never having an accident does not qualify anyone as a good driver. I could do a few courses in driving skills and I have never had an accident but it doesn't make me a good driver either. I could go today and travel at 120kph on a 80kph to pick up my kids from school just because I have a few certs and never an accident. Is that good driving? No its bad driving and poor driving behaviour.
I say it again Gatso vans are easy to spot. Anyone who can not spot a white van (it could be any van - Gatso, builders van etc) parked on the side of the road and doesn't adjust their speed accordingly, is not paying attention to the road.

a_chara wrote: »

Can you honestly say if you wouldn't normally travel this stretch of 3 lane traffic you'd instinctively know to slow down from 45mph to 30mph at the particular juncture where the speed trap kicks in depite all of the other cars as far as the eye can see doing the same speed as you? The nature of these roads is that the flow of traffic will self regulate the speed of the traffic, people don't look out for speed signs every five seconds because the travel at the same speed as the car in front of them and do absolutely no harm to anybody, how do you know there wasn't trucks either side blocking the view of the speed limit sign?, how do I know for that matter, they send the notice a month later when the thing is wiped from your memory. Have you never exceeded 30mph on this particualr stretch of road? Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone etc. And people were saying tramadoc was narrow minded...

I don't normally travel the Naas road. Don't like the Dublin traffic tbh so I stay away from the capital. But there is no need to have an instinct of a speed limit changing cos you only need to look at the signs.

Look when I'm doing a speed check say in a 80kph zone, I'm not looking to stop people doing anything under 100kph. Why? Cos there is no need to prevent the flow of traffic for someone going just over the limit. However I am looking for people going over the 100kph and it is these people who are taking the piss. That's how I operate and many other guards too but if people are not paying enough attention to see a white van or a marked patrol car parked on the side of the road ahead of them well thats just stupid driving. Shooting fish in a barrel = more like shooting stupid fish in the barrel.

a_chara wrote: »

This whole argument is a waste of time anyway because some people will adopt a holier than thou stance toward everything and preach from the pulpit at the sinners below, they will never see the otherside of the argument untill it happens to them, a few very relevent points made by the like of traumadoc and a few others but they just get shot down as poor drivers who can't pay attention to what they are doing.

No one here has a holier than thou attitude. Maybe those that were caught you like to believe that just to justify what happened to them. Pity me.

leon8v

TheNog wrote: »

. The vans are not that hard to spot.

TheNog wrote: »

One way to create a deterrent is to have warning signs before the actual speed trap but this is pretty useless. It would stop people speeding at a particular part of the road but as soon as they pass by the van speed up again.

Thats sounds like a bit of a contradiction to me. On the one hand you are saying that anyone who cant spot the Van in the first place is inattentive and therefore deserves to be caught and on the other hand you are saying if you were to advertise the fact it was there with signs people would only do what you are saying everyone should be able to do in the first place and drive accordingly while they pass the van.

With regard to speed limit signs, Any suggestions as to why the speed limit signs where that Gatso van tends to park on the Naas road are about the same size as a €2 coin??? What does making the signs smaller and making drivers have to look for maybe only a millisecond longer to make them out achieve?? Is it easier to generate a few quid in fines? That millisecond could make the difference in reaction times for someone.

I.S.T.

TheNog wrote: »

So what do you want? a text message? How is it poorly signposted? If there is a sign there then you have been notified. Simple as. No need for reminders. They would be just for the forgetful and inattentive drivers.

I came through one day from M50 onto Naas Road into town and there was a 50kmh sign on one side of the road and a 60kmh on the other. The signs are all over the place due to the roadworks.

I.S.T.

TheNog wrote: »

I say it again Gatso vans are easy to spot. Anyone who can not spot a white van (it could be any van - Gatso, builders van etc) parked on the side of the road and doesn't adjust their speed accordingly, is not paying attention to the road.

And what about the dark green Gatso van parked on the grass verge underneath the overgrown bushes on the N4 Lucan By-Pass? Very difficult one to spot.

deadwood

leon8v wrote: »

With regard to speed limit signs, Any suggestions as to why the speed limit signs where that Gatso van tends to park on the Naas road are about the same size as a €2 coin???

I'd bet a lot more drivers would notice a €2 coin!

craichoe

@ People commenting on Hidden Garda Vans ..

Its a VAN .. Hiding a Van, how you hide it, its not like its a set of keys.

TheNog

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

I came through one day from M50 onto Naas Road into town and there was a 50kmh sign on one side of the road and a 60kmh on the other. The signs are all over the place due to the roadworks.

WOW, that would be funny if it wasn't a kinda serious too. Did ye take any pics for your site?

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

And what about the dark green Gatso van parked on the grass verge underneath the overgrown bushes on the N4 Lucan By-Pass? Very difficult one to spot.

Yeah but its still not camoflagued (sp??). I think it is generally agreed the actual range on the vans is about 15 to 20 metres so the van still should still be quite visible from a distance.

deadwood

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Answer is no. You can check the location of all fixed and frequent mobile cameras on www.irishspeedtraps.com

The lads in the RSA and traffic units must be flat-out putting camera locations on your site.

Look up site, drive within limit at reported locations, get home in one piece and no ticket.

Everyones a winner!

a_chara

TheNog wrote: »

Or you could set up a speed trap which is not advertised too well and create the impression within people's mind that "Say hey I won't speed to work today cos there maybe a speed check along my route"..

Exactly why these vans are pointless, they're placed in random destinations at random times, sure people aren't going to alter behaviour based on this mystery van parking up wherever someone in an office feels like sending it. How many of these vans are there? What are the chances of actually being caught by one, you need consistancy if you want to alter peoples behaviour, not a van driving around with a camera sticking out the back of it.

TheNog wrote: »

A few certs and never having an accident does not qualify anyone as a good driver.

Well to be honest not seeing who was inside an inconspicous looking white van hardly qualifies anyone as a bad drive either does it? I agree with you most driving certs don't make a blessed bit of difference as it depends on performance on the day of the test, but i was using your logic that said if you have been caught speeding at any stage, by any means, you are a very poor driver and your driving inadequacies should be publicly ousted. I've said it before you don't know me personally how do you know what kind of driver i am or any other driver that got caught is?

TheNog wrote: »

I say it again Gatso vans are easy to spot. Anyone who can not spot a white van (it could be any van - Gatso, builders van etc) parked on the side of the road and doesn't adjust their speed accordingly, is not paying attention to the road.

Easy to spot, could be any van Gatso builders van etc.. does this not contradict itself? are people supposed to slow to crawling pace everytime they see a white van?

TheNog wrote: »

I don't normally travel the Naas road. Don't like the Dublin traffic tbh so I stay away from the capital. But there is no need to have an instinct of a speed limit changing cos you only need to look at the signs..

As I've said before i didn't get the notice till one month later, for all i know my view could have been restricted be numerous vans/lorries/cars in the outside lane as is generally the case on this stretch of road. I can only imagine i was doing the same speed as everyone else, the amount of posters in this small sample of the population who have also got caught give an indication of the average speed of traffic on this road.

TheNog wrote: »

Look when I'm doing a speed check say in a 80kph zone, I'm not looking to stop people doing anything under 100kph. Why? Cos there is no need to prevent the flow of traffic for someone going just over the limit. However I am looking for people going over the 100kph and it is these people who are taking the piss. ..

Agree with you totally, if this was the case i'd have no problem, i was doing 45 in a 30, hardly taking the piss? If gardai were allowed use common sense we'd be better off as a society, that's not an indictment on the gardai by the way - i've said it before all they can do is what they are being told to do.

TheNog wrote: »

No one here has a holier than thou attitude. Maybe those that were caught you like to believe that just to justify what happened to them. Pity me.

So you have never exceeded a 30mph speed limit - let alone a 30mph on 3 lanes of packed dual carriage way? Can you see the other side of the argument at all?

deadwood

a_chara wrote: »

Agree with you totally, if this was the case i'd have no problem, i was doing 45 in a 30, hardly taking the piss?

There's a slogan something like "hit me at 30mph and there's an 80% chance and i'll survive, hit me at 35 and there's an 80% chance i'll die".

In what distance can you stop at 30mph. At 45mph?


Is doing 150kph in a 100 ok? 180kph in a 120?


I bet if the councils put up signs saying "Minimum speed 80kph" the guards wouldn't catch one driver under that limit.

GreeBo

a_chara wrote: »

What are the chances of actually being caught by one, you need consistancy if you want to alter peoples behaviour

The consistency is that you should obey the limit consistently as you dont know where they are. Your argument would require cameras on every road, and thats never going to happen.

a_chara wrote: »

are people supposed to slow to crawling pace everytime they see a white van?

If they are speeding then YES! You are supposed to be driving at or below the limit. I dont care what makes you slow down as long as you do.

a_chara wrote: »

Agree with you totally, if this was the case i'd have no problem, i was doing 45 in a 30, hardly taking the piss?

Tell that to the person you plough into because of your increased stopping distance.

leon8v

deadwood wrote: »

There's a slogan something like "hit me at 30mph and there's an 80% chance and i'll survive, hit me at 35 and there's an 80% chance i'll die".

In what distance can you stop at 30mph. At 45mph?

That is really a how long is a piece of string question.
A quick google will tell you that the average stopping distance at 30mph is 75ft, at 40mph is 120ft. However another quick Google will tell you that a new BMW M5 can stop from 60mph in 112ft. So it depends on so much more factors that just speed, and speed cameras cant measure that!!!