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Speeding ticket on Naas Road
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Exactly why these vans are pointless, they're placed in random destinations at random times, sure people aren't going to alter behaviour based on this mystery van parking up wherever someone in an office feels like sending it. How many of these vans are there? What are the chances of actually being caught by one, you need consistancy if you want to alter peoples behaviour, not a van driving around with a camera sticking out the back of it.
Gatso vans, guards with speed guns, guards driving unmarked cars and joe public driving behind you who is calling a garda station to report dangerous driving. See not one of these alone can reduce the fatalities but working together can.Well to be honest not seeing who was inside an inconspicous looking white van hardly qualifies anyone as a bad drive either does it? I agree with you most driving certs don't make a blessed bit of difference as it depends on performance on the day of the test, but i was using your logic that said if you have been caught speeding at any stage, by any means, you are a very poor driver and your driving inadequacies should be publicly ousted. I've said it before you don't know me personally how do you know what kind of driver i am or any other driver that got caught is?
You don't have to look inside at the driver at all. That would be just silly. Look at the blacked out windows and you see a small square which is blacker or lighter shade of black than the rest. Chances are it is a Gatso.
Also I don't believe I said those are poor drivers, I said they were displaying poor driving skills at the time they were caught. There is a difference.Easy to spot, could be any van Gatso builders van etc.. does this not contradict itself? are people supposed to slow to crawling pace everytime they see a white van?
Well if you don't want a fine and points then yes slow down. Its not that hard at all.As I've said before i didn't get the notice till one month later, for all i know my view could have been restricted be numerous vans/lorries/cars in the outside lane as is generally the case on this stretch of road. I can only imagine i was doing the same speed as everyone else, the amount of posters in this small sample of the population who have also got caught give an indication of the average speed of traffic on this road.
Yes but ye all knew that breaking a speed limit can result in a fine and points. Why do people whinge about it then?Agree with you totally, if this was the case i'd have no problem, i was doing 45 in a 30, hardly taking the piss? If gardai were allowed use common sense we'd be better off as a society, that's not an indictment on the gardai by the way - i've said it before all they can do is what they are being told to do.
45 in a 30 is borderline to me. Gardai are not told to set up a speed check (Gatsos are different) and guards are not told to what limit is ok. It is up to the individual guard to make up his/her own mind.So you have never exceeded a 30mph speed limit - let alone a 30mph on 3 lanes of packed dual carriage way? Can you see the other side of the argument at all?
Of course I have exceeded the limit. Actually plenty of times.0 -
I just got a ticket from that van today. Same spot as the op, I was doing 78kmph. Ah well 80 quid and 2 points, I'll be more careful in future0
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@the Nog, Not going to get into the garda bashing on speed traps as there are plenty of others to cover that but do you know the statistics with regard to no of road deaths in Co. Dublin, as in % of overall total and then the % of overall total of speed checks carried out in Dublin??? ?
@TheNog you didnt answer the earlier question I asked, But do you know what percentage of fatalities are attributed to Speeding?0 -
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I just got a ticket from that van today. Same spot as the op, I was doing 78kmph. Ah well 80 quid and 2 points, I'll be more careful in future
THis is how people should respond to getting caught. Sure ye can be pissed off but ultimately accepting the fine and points.
Fair play to ye Onkle0 -
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2006 figures show speeding was the cause of or contributory factor of 12% of traffic accidents. here
In all fairness, its a pretty low percentage. While I accept that its very easy to forget that lives are involved when talking about these statistics and any life lost is terrible but the limited resources available should be concentrated in the important areas. Can gatso vans measure anything other than speed? No. And a whole host of private ones are being proposed but thats a whole other debate
I dont remember there being a fatal accident near that section of the Naas road over the last god knows how many years other than the time that guy went on a rampage in a bus a few years ago so really is putting the Gatso van there necessary??? It doesnt have a bad record of accidents and as it is traffic moves fine on that stretch. While I agree that there has to be laws etc, given that its Ireland, the speed limit was more than likely set by someone with little or no experience or expertise in that area.0 -
Ok, I dirve this section every day. This morning I kept a close eye to were and what size the signs are. The first is about half way down the road and is of standard size. It is not blocked by any of the work signs. Even with my eyesight and the fact I forgot my glasses this morning, it is very noticable. The second is at the large gantry direction signs just at the enterence to Harris Truck Centre, this is smaller than the first, but is not the smallest speed sign around. It is behind this one that the van parks / hides, depending on your view.
Neither sign is blocked by any other sign or the grass that has not been cut in years.
Sorry lads, but speed limit signs are perfectly visable. You can not complain that you got caught.
Also the problem with speeding is not that it causes more accidents, it the extra damage done from speeding.0 -
OldmanMondeo wrote: »Ok, I dirve this section every day. This morning I kept a close eye to were and what size the signs are. The first is about half way down the road and is of standard size. It is not blocked by any of the work signs. Even with my eyesight and the fact I forgot my glasses this morning, it is very noticable. The second is at the large gantry direction signs just at the enterence to Harris Truck Centre, this is smaller than the first, but is not the smallest speed sign around. It is behind this one that the van parks / hides, depending on your view.
Neither sign is blocked by any other sign or the grass that has not been cut in years.
Sorry lads, but speed limit signs are perfectly visable. You can not complain that you got caught.
Also the problem with speeding is not that it causes more accidents, it the extra damage done from speeding.
The van also regularly sits at the first layby there on the left just after the turn in for Bluebell football club which if I am not mistaken is before the first speed limit sign.
I have never gotten a ticket on this section so am not complaining.
However, given the statistics above, speeding isnt a major cause of road fatalities in Ireland, in fact its quite small at 12%, so clearly speeding isnt a major problem in Ireland so the concentration of efforts should be in other areas that are.0 -
The van also regularly sits at the first layby there on the left just after the turn in for Bluebell football club which if I am not mistaken is before the first speed limit sign.
Know it well, just at the traffic lights well before the limit sign. The amount of cars that break that light because they are going to fast to stop is scarey. anyone in my job that get the luas are worried anytime they try to cross there beacuse of the speed cars come of fhte interchange at.0 -
In all fairness, its a pretty low percentage. While I accept that its very easy to forget that lives are involved when talking about these statistics and any life lost is terrible but the limited resources available should be concentrated in the important areas. Can gatso vans measure anything other than speed? No. And a whole host of private ones are being proposed but thats a whole other debate
Yes it is a low percentage but it is still 44 people dead. Should we just say "ah its low number so lets forget about it and concentrate on other areas" or should we say "we can tackle all aspects of road fatalities to reduce the overall number of people dying on the roads"?
I think the second option is best.
Also the Gatso is only a small part of the package to tackle road fatalities along with marked and unmarked patrol cars and Joe Public policing the roads.I dont remember there being a fatal accident near that section of the Naas road over the last god knows how many years. It doesnt have a bad record of accidents and as it is traffic moves fine on that stretch. While I agree that there has to be laws etc, given that its Ireland, the speed limit was more than likely set by someone with little or no experience or expertise in that area.
But what is wrong with proactive policing. This is what it is. Helping to prevent collisions in that area through speeding.
Also afaik the speed limit is set by a Road Engineer. Hardly someone with little or no experience now is it.The van also regularly sits at the first layby there on the left just after the turn in for Bluebell football club which if I am not mistaken is before the first speed limit sign.
I have never gotten a ticket on this section so am not complaining.
However, given the statistics above, speeding isnt a major cause of road fatalities in Ireland, in fact its quite small at 12%, so clearly speeding isnt a major problem in Ireland so the concentration of efforts should be in other areas that are.
Okay I'm not overly familiar with that road so I will guess that the Bluebell Rd is accessed via the Naas Rd (just before the Red Cow roundabout).
The speed limit on the Bluebell road would still be governed by the limit set on the Naas road.0 -
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No you shouldnt say its a low number so just forget about it but the resources are limited as you guys keep telling us so why not concentrate them at the causes of the biggest amount of fatalities. You havent answered what I asked about the record of Dublin versus the rest of the country and the % of speed checks, maybe that information isnt available? It should be though as logic would suggest that tackling a problem should be done based on a strategy of where the problem really exists. According to the RSA statistics, Dublin has the best record per head of population. Granted, statistics can tell what you want them to depending on how you measure something but it would seem that someone doing 10/15kph over the posted limit on that section of the Naas road isnt really a problem in the grand scheme of things yet seems to be a favourite spot for the mobile tax collectors.Yes it is a low percentage but it is still 44 people dead. Should we just say "ah its low number so lets forget about it and concentrate on other areas" or should we say "we can tackle all aspects of road fatalities to reduce the overall number of people dying on the roads"?
I think the second option is best.
Asking Joe Public to police the roads is not the answer, it is wide open to a whole host of issues and there are enough " I think 80kph is fast enough in the overtaking lane of a 120kph motorway so I'll enforce it" merchants out there without encouraging more.Also the Gatso is only a small part of the package to tackle road fatalities along with marked and unmarked patrol cars and Joe Public policing the roads.But what is wrong with proactive policing. This is what it is. Helping to prevent collisions in that area through speeding.
In theory there is nothing at all wrong with it, but as I said already, that would be fine if all the bigger problem areas were well under control, Can you honestly say thats its a good use of resources (whether it be peoples time or money spent) policing for example the road in question for an offence which statistics prove isnt really the biggest problem, when they could be spent in areas that are proven to be a problem. You said yourself earlier that it wouldnt be wise for you to stand doing a speed check on a dangerously narrow stretch of road as it would add to the danger. Well which is a better use of resources, the speed check on the Naas road on a patrol car patrolling the known dangerous roads?? The latter in my opinion. One particluar saturday morning I counted 8 uniformed members of the Garda carrying out a speed check on that part of the Naas road, Two were manning the speed gun, 3 or so writing the tickets and the other 3 standing round, one of which was on a bike ready to go in case someone didnt stop. Can you honestly say this is productive use of resources. They were only checking speed by the way, nothing else. I drove back around again to see it a second time as I couldnt believe my eyes the first time.Also afaik the speed limit is set by a Road Engineer. Hardly someone with little or no experience now is it.
In some cases I would really wonder!!!!Okay I'm not overly familiar with that road so I will guess that the Bluebell Rd is accessed via the Naas Rd (just before the Red Cow roundabout).
The speed limit on the Bluebell road would still be governed by the limit set on the Naas road.
Sorry we are getting wires a bit crossed here. When coming off the M50 southbound at the red cow you are coming from a 100kph motorway, you go off the slip road and come onto the Naas Road (N7 is the correct name I think for this section too) and before you see pass the first sign to tell you that the limit is now 60kph you will have been caught by the Van as it sometimes parks just after the turn into bluebell football club (that was just a reference point.
The bluebell bit was just for a reference point.0 -
OldmanMondeo wrote: »Know it well, just at the traffic lights well before the limit sign. The amount of cars that break that light because they are going to fast to stop is scarey. anyone in my job that get the luas are worried anytime they try to cross there beacuse of the speed cars come of fhte interchange at.
In all fairness its a ridiculous place to have a pedestrian crossing, on the junction of two of the biggest and busiest roads in Dublin. But at least they are putting a bridge over it now for pedestrians. I too drive that road everyday sometimes two or three times. I have never ever seen someone go through those lights because they were going too fast to stop but will have to take your word for it.
The amount of idiot pedestrians that walk along the centre verge balancing on the edge of it beside the luas is also scarey!!!0 -
Sorry we are getting wires a bit crossed here. When coming off the M50 southbound at the red cow you are coming from a 100kph motorway, you go off the slip road and come onto the Naas Road (N7 is the correct name I think for this section too) and before you see pass the first sign to tell you that the limit is now 60kph you will have been caught by the Van as it sometimes parks just after the turn into bluebell football club (that was just a reference point.
The bluebell bit was just for a reference point.
Comming off the M50, either neading N7 north or south, there is also clearly indicated speed limit signs showing 60kph. Don't know about comming before the Red Cow mess from Naas.0 -
OldmanMondeo wrote: »Comming off the M50, either neading N7 north or south, there is also clearly indicated speed limit signs showing 60kph. Don't know about comming before the Red Cow mess from Naas.
Well I am generally an attentive driver so I will have a look again as I didnt notice them. But then I am generally spending more time watching for all the dangerous moves and last minutes decisions to take the slip road that speed cameras dont catch and that the two guards hiding behind a bus stop at the bus lane down further arent interested in either!!0 -
Well I am generally an attentive driver so I will have a look again as I didnt notice them. But then I am generally spending more time watching for all the dangerous moves and last minutes decisions to take the slip road that speed cameras dont catch and that the two guards hiding behind a bus stop at the bus lane down further arent interested in either!!
I am not having a pop at you. Just saying. They are just were the slip road splits for Naas and City bound.
But I know what your saying about Ninja drivers...0 -
OldmanMondeo wrote: »I am not having a pop at you. Just saying. They are just were the slip road splits for Naas and City bound.
But I know what your saying about Ninja drivers...
Sorry wasnt trying to be argumentative or anything there. But the point I was making was that I am generally a very attentive driver (Self praise is no praise I know) and these signs are easily missed at that point due to other more important areas for concentration so I think its a little unfair to place the camera van before the first sign on the Naas road itself. There should a sign on either side of the road just before you merge with the Naas road but then I personally believe that if Road safety was the priority these would be there.0 -
"Garda Doyourownmother, your idea to park the Gatso on the Naas Road has worked. Plenty of people saw it and they're discussing it on Boards, so hopefully they'll slow down there for a while"
"Thanks Sarge. Hopefully they'll mind the speed a bit elsewhere too and get to spend Christmas with their families. I just want to share the love, Sarge."
"Now Garda Doyourownmother, today, take out one of those hedges from the store and hide behind it at some stretch that's a 50 zone, but should be a 100 zone, for the day and get down to the real work of collecting revenue for the exchequer - Lenihan's been on to the Super again - the mercs need petrol"0 -
No you shouldnt say its a low number so just forget about it but the resources are limited as you guys keep telling us so why not concentrate them at the causes of the biggest amount of fatalities.
According the RSA in 2006 the biggest cause of RTCs is classed as 'Other' but the second biggest contributory factor is 'Went on wrong side of the road'. How do you police against that? Some of the factors could be speeding, drunk, tiredness, on the phone, driver inattention.
Whats the basic rule in driving? Expect the unexpected!!!You havent answered what I asked about the record of Dublin versus the rest of the country and the % of speed checks, maybe that information isnt available? It should be though as logic would suggest that tackling a problem should be done based on a strategy of where the problem really exists.
No I don;t have those statistics for that.
[/QUOTE] it would seem that someone doing 10/15kph over the posted limit on that section of the Naas road isnt really a problem in the grand scheme of things yet seems to be a favourite spot for the mobile tax collectors. [/QUOTE]
Again proactive policing is much better than reactive policing. If there are no fatals in that area then lets keep it that way by putting a Gatso or mobile unit on the road on occasion.
Again 'tax collectors' should be renamed to 'tax donators' who again are caught because they are not fully concentrating on the road so don't see the Gatso van or the guard in a hi-viz jacket ahead of them.
[/QUOTE]Asking Joe Public to police the roads is not the answer, [/QUOTE]
Ok I phrased that wrong I am not asking Joe Public to police the roads but asking Joe Public to help police the roads by notifying Gardai of bad driving.
[/QUOTE]One particluar saturday morning I counted 8 uniformed members of the Garda carrying out a speed check on that part of the Naas road, Two were manning the speed gun, 3 or so writing the tickets and the other 3 standing round, one of which was on a bike ready to go in case someone didnt stop. Can you honestly say this is productive use of resources. They were only checking speed by the way, nothing else. I drove back around again to see it a second time as I couldnt believe my eyes the first time. [/QUOTE]
Afaik the Naas Rd is a three lane road with high traffic volumes so plenty of guards would be needed.
I can also understand that you could not believe your eyes because in a nutshell you do not know what policing is like. In the past 4-5 months I personally know of 3 pursuits involving drivers who have failed to stop at checkpoints and speed checks so the more cars at a checkpoint the better.
Also the next time you see a checkpoint or speed check, don't think guards are only looking at tax, isurance or speeding. Guards are also looking for suspicious driving and travelling criminals just to name a couple of things.0 -
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It always makes me mad when the anti speed trap heads come on with the "They should be policing more dangerous roads" blah blah.
If they were caught speeding on that road, they'd still be moaning here; "they should be on the main roads where traffic volumes are higher".
Where i grew up, there was a major road that ran between 2 estates. It had a speed limit of 40mph at the time but sure no one obeyed it, cos the cops were rarely on it.
One day, a child was killed by a speeding driver. The outcry from the estate was loud and unified but equally quite hypocritical. Everyone was condemning the gardai and the corpo for not having appropriate speed prevention measures on the road in the first place. Yet no one seemed to moan about it before the accident happened. I was young at the time but i remember saying it to me Da through my innocent eyes.
Time has passed and memories of dead children fade away fast. People speed on that road and moan more when they get a speeding ticket. In fact they drive too fast to read the marble stone on the wall with that little girl's name on it.
but sure, she is only one little girl i suppose. I guess its statistically acceptable?
It shouldnt take speed cameras or gatso vans for people to slow down.0 -
Are you asking me how to do your job? Well what I can do is tell you how you dont police against that, you dont use Gatso Vans because they wont catch anything other than going above the posted limit. Patrolling the roads would be a start. As much as I dont care for a lot of the Biker Guards "talk down" attitude, a few that I have met(not necessarily through me doing anything wrong) over the years have been pretty sound and had the right attitude. These guys patrolling roads looking for anything dangerous is much better use of resources.According the RSA in 2006 the biggest cause of RTCs is classed as 'Other' but the second biggest contributory factor is 'Went on wrong side of the road'. How do you police against that? Some of the factors could be speeding, drunk, tiredness, on the phone, driver inattention.No I don;t have those statistics for that.
Well in all fairness whoever is dreaming up the strategy to tackle road safety should have!!!!
And again as I said above, I agree, but not when resources are limited!! 3 mornings in a row isnt really "on occassion" ALthough I am not sure I fully agree with your terms there, I am not convinced that telling someone three or more weeks after they broke the posted speed limit that they are fined is really Proactive!Again proactive policing is much better than reactive policing. If there are no fatals in that area then lets keep it that way by putting a Gatso or mobile unit on the road on occasion
Why does the new Van only barely have any Garda markings on it? And the old ones with no markings on it??Again 'tax collectors' should be renamed to 'tax donators' who again are caught because they are not fully concentrating on the road so don't see the Gatso van or the guard in a hi-viz jacket ahead of them.Ok I phrased that wrong I am not asking Joe Public to police the roads but asking Joe Public to help police the roads by notifying Gardai of bad driving.
Again while maybe there is some use in it, it's open to a lot of issues, For example say someone takes a disliking to someone else etc. and open to one persons definition of bad driving as oppossed to someone elses.Afaik the Naas Rd is a three lane road with high traffic volumes so plenty of guards would be needed.
I can also understand that you could not believe your eyes because in a nutshell you do not know what policing is like. In the past 4-5 months I personally know of 3 pursuits involving drivers who have failed to stop at checkpoints and speed checks so the more cars at a checkpoint the better.
I am sorry but that doesnt justify it to me. And do you guys have some sort of special powers that you can spot suspicious criminals in cars with your back to the traffic while joking and laughing with two colleagues?? Dont get me wrong I know some of you guys have a tough job but I also know when I see a piss take and that was one.
The more cars at checkpoint the better? Possibly but do you also agree with guards not bothering to turn up when called out to deal with suspicios activity or thefts at peoples houses? Because I know of more than 3 cases in the last few weeks never mind months where this has happened.Also the next time you see a checkpoint or speed check, don't think guards are only looking at tax, isurance or speeding. Guards are also looking for suspicious driving and travelling criminals just to name a couple of things.
Again, agreed but the above was a piss take, plain and simple. I am not having a go at you personally here but your reasons have not convinced me tha the current approach is at all justified.0 -
It always makes me mad when the anti speed trap heads come on with the "They should be policing more dangerous roads" blah blah.
If they were caught speeding on that road, they'd still be moaning here; "they should be on the main roads where traffic volumes are higher".
Where i grew up, there was a major road that ran between 2 estates. It had a speed limit of 40mph at the time but sure no one obeyed it, cos the cops were rarely on it.
One day, a child was killed by a speeding driver. The outcry from the estate was loud and unified but equally quite hypocritical. Everyone was condemning the gardai and the corpo for not having appropriate speed prevention measures on the road in the first place. Yet no one seemed to moan about it before the accident happened. I was young at the time but i remember saying it to me Da through my innocent eyes.
Time has passed and memories of dead children fade away fast. People speed on that road and moan more when they get a speeding ticket. In fact they drive too fast to read the marble stone on the wall with that little girl's name on it.
but sure, she is only one little girl i suppose. I guess its statistically acceptable?
It shouldnt take speed cameras or gatso vans for people to slow down.
That is a tragedy and you are right it shouldnt take speed cameras for people to drive at the appropraite speeds in built up areas.
Was speed recorded as the main factor in this accident?
No death is statistically acceptable but unfortuantely it will never be zero deaths, it just not possible unfortunately and my original point was that IMO resources are not being used to the best effect to get it as low as is possible.0 -
It always makes me mad when the anti speed trap heads come on with the "They should be policing more dangerous roads" blah blah.
If they were caught speeding on that road, they'd still be moaning here; "they should be on the main roads where traffic volumes are higher".
If the real interest is to improve road safety then it makes perfect sense to police the roads where most crashes occur before going after the relatively safe motorways and dual-carriageways. If you have a large wound in your chest pumping blood and a small scratch on your arm you wouldn't attend to the scratch first. The motorways and dual carriageways are the equivalent of small scratches and the rural roads are the large wounds. Why are the Govenment intent on tackling the small scratches first?0 -
Are you asking me how to do your job? Well what I can do is tell you how you dont police against that, you dont use Gatso Vans because they wont catch anything other than going above the posted limit. Patrolling the roads would be a start.
You are still saying that speeding should be pretty much ignored or at least cut down on. Bad idea tbh.
The Gatso are doing the job they were designed for, detect speeding. Everything else I have already outlined covers the rest of bad driving.
[/QUOTE]Well in all fairness whoever is dreaming up the strategy to tackle road safety should have!!!! [/QUOTE]
Agreed. Statistics should be available. Maybe they are, I just didn't find it.
[/QUOTE]And again as I said above, I agree, but not when resources are limited!! 3 mornings in a row isnt really "on occassion" ALthough I am not sure I fully agree with your terms there, I am not convinced that telling someone three or more weeks after they broke the posted speed limit that they are fined is really Proactive![/QUOTE]
If that was to happen then we would be back to 4-6 guards standing around a the roadside. Piss take anyone?
[/QUOTE]Why does the new Van only barely have any Garda markings on it? And the old ones with no markings on it??
With your proactive approach mentioned above, if a garda in a patrol car sees someone driving dangerously is it not better to[/QUOTE]
Part of your post is missing here but I will add that people see an marked car and adjust their driving so as not to draw attention to themselves.
[/QUOTE]Again while maybe there is some use in it, open to a lot of issues, For example say someone takes a disliking to someone else etc. and open to one persons definition of bad driving as oppossed to someone elses.[/QUOTE]
There is only one definition of bad driving and its cover in the Road Traffic Act . Certain critieria are needed for Section 51, 52 and 53. If a witness does not give an account to meet that criteria then no prosecution can take place.
[/QUOTE]I am sorry but that doesnt justify it to me. And do you guys have some sort of special powers that you can spot suspicious criminals in cars with your back to the traffic while joking and laughing with two colleagues?? Dont get me wrong I know some of you guys have a tough job but I also know when I see a piss take and that was one.[/QUOTE]
Not special powers just good information dissemination. We can and do spot criminals from other districts.
Laughing and joking? Is it banned in your workplace? Are Gardai not allowed to laugh?
Come on for gods sake
[/QUOTE]The more cars at checkpoint the better? Possibly but do you also agree with guards not bothering to turn up when called out to deal with suspicios activity or thefts at peoples houses? Because I know of more than 3 cases in the last few weeks never mind months where this has happened.[/QUOTE]
Totally off topic so I think it should be answered in another forum/thread.
[/QUOTE]Again, agreed but the above was a piss take, plain and simple. I am not having a go at you personally here but your reasons have not convinced me tha the current approach is at all justified.[/QUOTE]
Well sure we can agree to disagree then but you still can't justify how anyone cannot spot a Gatso van from 100m + away. I have already said I am not against speeding per se just against those who are taking the piss. We all know the law and speed limits but I cannot understand how people complain about it no matter what the method used.
If you take a look at Irishspeedtraps.ie site you will see all the locations where speed checks are done. Fair enough I have no problem with that but at the same time you will also realise the lack of safety information on the site or how many people were killed/injured on a particular road either. Actually safety is mentioned once "Safety Camera Locations". Makes ye think, heh0 -
Because they are choosing to put themselves in front of the greatest number of people.IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »If the real interest is to improve road safety then it makes perfect sense to police the roads where most crashes occur before going after the relatively safe motorways and dual-carriageways. If you have a large wound in your chest pumping blood and a small scratch on your arm you wouldn't attend to the scratch first. The motorways and dual carriageways are the equivalent of small scratches and the rural roads are the large wounds. Why are the Govenment intent on tackling the small scratches first?
You want them on smaller roads that have black spots? How long do they stay there for? Do they ever leave? When do you decide that this road is now safe as no one speeds on it? Problems is you cant. You could be there for a week and only meet 1000 drivers, yet be on the N3 for 1 day and meet 10,000.
Lots of people on here seem to be forgetting that its people who cause crashes. Its people who are speeding. They way you combat this is you try to teach as many people as you can not to speed. Once the majority of people have stopped speeding then you can move to more isolated roads if there is persistent offenders there. The very fact that they are catching people on the main roads shows that people dont get a ****e and will speed when and where they want. We need to fine that crap out of these people and get them off the road.
says who? If its a 50 zone then its a 50 zone and neither you nor anyone else has the right to decide it isnt just because you *think* you can drive faster. Do you seriously think they have limits that are artificially low just so they can catch speeders?deadwood wrote:some stretch that's a 50 zone, but should be a 100 zone0 -
You are still saying that speeding should be pretty much ignored or at least cut down on. Bad idea tbh.
The Gatso are doing the job they were designed for, detect speeding. Everything else I have already outlined covers the rest of bad driving.
I never once said that speeding should be ignored, What I said was, putting the limited resources on a stretch of road with that doesnt have a bad safety record to catch someone doing something that has been proven to be one of the smaller causes of road fatalities isnt the best approach. There is a big difference.Agreed. Statistics should be available. Maybe they are, I just didn't find it.
We agree on something. I really believe that these statistics should be used to direct the strategy.
[/QUOTE]And again as I said above, I agree, but not when resources are limited!! 3 mornings in a row isnt really "on occassion" ALthough I am not sure I fully agree with your terms there, I am not convinced that telling someone three or more weeks after they broke the posted speed limit that they are fined is really Proactive![/QUOTE]If that was to happen then we would be back to 4-6 guards standing around a the roadside. Piss take anyone?
Again I never said anything about 4-6 guards standing around!!! I said I am not sure sending a fine in the post 3-4 weeks later is Proactive!
For example What about a biker guard patrolling the road and if he sees something he believes to be a piss take then pull them in before they have an accident rather than taking a photo of them and sending it to them 3 weeks later!!!!
[/QUOTE]Why does the new Van only barely have any Garda markings on it? And the old ones with no markings on it??
With your proactive approach mentioned above, if a garda in a patrol car sees someone driving dangerously is it not better to[/QUOTE]Part of your post is missing here but I will add that people see an marked car and adjust their driving so as not to draw attention to themselves.
Sorry I had edited it and must have deleted something by acident. I take it you mean that people see a marked car and adjust their driving accordingly is not the best option? Yet you are arguing that people should be able to see a gatso van in time and adjust accordingly? How is this any different?
[/QUOTE]Again while maybe there is some use in it, open to a lot of issues, For example say someone takes a disliking to someone else etc. and open to one persons definition of bad driving as oppossed to someone elses.[/QUOTE]
Do all of these joe soaps know all the road traffic acts?? I doubt it!!! I am not saying its a bad thing completely by the way.There is only one definition of bad driving and its cover in the Road Traffic Act . Certain critieria are needed for Section 51, 52 and 53. If a witness does not give an account to meet that criteria then no prosecution can take place.
[/QUOTE]I am sorry but that doesnt justify it to me. And do you guys have some sort of special powers that you can spot suspicious criminals in cars with your back to the traffic while joking and laughing with two colleagues?? Dont get me wrong I know some of you guys have a tough job but I also know when I see a piss take and that was one.[/QUOTE]Not special powers just good information dissemination. We can and do spot criminals from other districts.
Laughing and joking? Is it banned in your workplace? Are Gardai not allowed to laugh?
Come on for gods sake
No laughing isnt banned, And I am led to believe that there are a few members of the Garda who have a sense of humour alright:P They just dont seem to be put on checkpoints:P
Anyway the point was these guys clearly werent looking for anything. It was a glorified speed check on a safe stretch of road.
[/QUOTE]The more cars at checkpoint the better? Possibly but do you also agree with guards not bothering to turn up when called out to deal with suspicios activity or thefts at peoples houses? Because I know of more than 3 cases in the last few weeks never mind months where this has happened.[/QUOTE]
The point was that there seems to be ample cars to sit around at speedchecks but not for other issues.Totally off topic so I think it should be answered in another forum/thread..Well sure we can agree to disagree then but you still can't justify how anyone cannot spot a Gatso van from 100m + away. I have already said I am not against speeding per se just against those who are taking the piss. We all know the law and speed limits but I cannot understand how people complain about it no matter what the method used.
Actually I asked you why the gatso van didnt have markings on it and you seemed to imply that when people see a marked car they adjust their driving to avoid attention, how is spotting a gatso van any different??
As I said already, use the resources to tackle the actual problems giving rise to road fatalities not the minor issues in safe areas. I was never trying to justify why someone cannot spot a gatso van 100m+ away, I was asking what the hell is it doing there in the first place! By your argument, everyone should be able to spot it, drive accordingly and carry on after it. How is that any good.
On the other hand you havent been able to justify why it is being used to tackle a problem that doesnt really exist on that stretch of road when the resources could be used to tackle one that does elsewhere!If you take a look at Irishspeedtraps.ie site you will see all the locations where speed checks are done. Fair enough I have no problem with that but at the same time you will also realise the lack of safety information on the site or how many people were killed/injured on a particular road either. Actually safety is mentioned once "Safety Camera Locations". Makes ye think, heh
With all due respect you werent able to give the how many killed on that stretch of road versus location of speed traps info either and you are effectively representing the group charged with tackling road safety!!!
You are right, it does make you think, are these cameras doing anything at all for road safety!!!0 -
"Now Garda Doyourownmother, today, take out one of those hedges from the store and hide behind it at some stretch that's a 50 zone, but should be a 100 zone, for the day and get down to the real work of collecting revenue for the exchequer - Lenihan's been on to the Super again - the mercs need petrol"
says who? If its a 50 zone then its a 50 zone and neither you nor anyone else has the right to decide it isnt just because you *think* you can drive faster. Do you seriously think they have limits that are artificially low just so they can catch speeders?
Think you missed the whole point of Deadwoods post. It was meant for humour only0 -
Because they are choosing to put themselves in front of the greatest number of people.
You want them on smaller roads that have black spots? How long do they stay there for? Do they ever leave? When do you decide that this road is now safe as no one speeds on it? Problems is you cant. You could be there for a week and only meet 1000 drivers, yet be on the N3 for 1 day and meet 10,000.
I disagree here, If they were on smaller roads that have known black spots and met 1000 drivers and saved a life due to that then do you not think its more worthwhile than meeting 10,000 and handing out a load of fines on a road which is so much less likely to have a fatality in the first place.
Let me put it this way for you, Lets say you are driving on a country road that is a known black spot with your family in the car, There are limited garda resources as we all know. Which would you prefer, the limited garda resources to be used to catch the fool who is a km up the road ahead of you driving towards you after having a few pints and and who is going too fast for the conditions and their ability and who could potentially plough into you, or would you prefer them to be on the Naas road handing out fines to people in the hope that it might convince them to drive a bit slower elsewhere.
I know where I would prefer them to be!!!0 -
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I never once said that speeding should be ignored, What I said was, putting the limited resources on a stretch of road with that doesnt have a bad safety record to catch someone doing something that has been proven to be one of the smaller causes of road fatalities isnt the best approach. There is a big difference.
You see people tend to have this attitude of "If I didn;t see it, it didn't happen". Neither you nor I know what happens on the Naas Rd everyday but the local Gardai and residents do.three or more weeks after they broke the posted speed limit that they are fined is really Proactive!
Proves my point though doesn't it. Inattentive drivers.
Why should you find out three weeks later that you were speeding? Driver should know when they are driving, that they are breaking the speed limit.Sorry I had edited it and must have deleted something by acident. I take it you mean that people see a marked car and adjust their driving accordingly is not the best option? Yet you are arguing that people should be able to see a gatso van in time and adjust accordingly? How is this any different?
Because once the patrol car turns off, they are back to their bad driving habits again. However with the Gatso van intelligent people or people with some cop on should be thinking "Maybe, just maybe".
Its all down to attitude of the Irish drivers which I think everyone can agree is not the best. Have you ever spoke with a drunk driver and told them not to drive or told someone to slow down. If ye did I bet the answer was "Its alright I won't be caught" rather than "its ok I won't kill anyone".Do all of these joe soaps know all the road traffic acts?? I doubt it!!!
No you see bad driving and report it. The guard will ask you what happened, if it doesn't qualify then no further action is taken.No laughing isnt banned, And I am led to believe that there are a few members of the Garda who have a sense of humour alright:P They just dont seem to be put on checkpoints:P
Anyway the point was these guys clearly werent looking for anything. It was a glorified speed check on a safe stretch of road.
You said you drove by this checkpoint so it was merely seconds that you saw guards joking. Doesn't qualify as a piss take to me. If you were watching them for 10 minutes or more, then I would agree with ye.The point was that there seems to be ample cars to sit around at speedchecks but not for other issues.
There is a whole lot more to policing than traffic related. If you wish you can look at or post in the ES forum and found out for yourself.With all due respect you werent able to give the how many killed on that stretch of road versus location of speed traps info either and you are effectively representing the group charged with tackling road safety!!!
In fairness I do not work in Dublin so your point is kind of moot. I cannot be expected to know stats for every part of the country, could I?You are right, it does make you think, are these cameras doing anything at all for road safety!!!
Of course they are but only if people are mature enough to accept the punishment and take some responsibility for their actions. Many do, some don't.0
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