Speeding ticket on Naas Road

derry

kbannon wrote: »

I have never heard that BMW admitted this. It actually surprises me as they cannot be 100% sure given tyre differences, etc.

I remember seeing in some forum .Google it and you will find it

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

Do you have a reference for this?

Only my memory some case lasst year of some guy caught speeding in Donegal late at night in a top of the range car and i think speed was 160KPH .The gauda put in for a dangerous driving charge . The judge threw out dangerous driving charge on the grounds that speeding on a good road with good conditions and a good type car late at night with empty roads was not in itself dangerous driving.
Anyway logic also states that if the dangerous driving chage had gone through it would ean that the Gauda if they exceeded 120KPH in some urgent reason with sirens would also be quilty of dangerous driving
Pandoras box stuff

Derry

craichoe

derry wrote: »

I remember seeing in some forum .Google it and you will find it



Only my memory some case lasst year of some guy caught speeding in Donegal late at night in a top of the range car and i think speed was 160KPH .The gauda put in for a dangerous driving charge . The judge threw out dangerous driving charge on the grounds that speeding on a good road with good conditions and a good type car late at night with empty roads was not in itself dangerous driving.
Anyway logic also states that if the dangerous driving chage had gone through it would ean that the Gauda if they exceeded 120KPH in some urgent reason with sirens would also be quilty of dangerous driving
Pandoras box stuff

Derry

I wouldn't say Irish roads are suitable for speeds of 160 kph, they aren't straight enough.

leon8v

craichoe wrote: »

I wouldn't say Irish roads are suitable for speeds of 160 kph, they aren't straight enough.

There are plenty of roads in Ireland where speeds a good bit in excess of 160kph could be safely achieved in the right car in the right conditions with a good driver.
Sure Rally drivers do it on our worst back roads.

OldmanMondeo

leon8v wrote: »

There are plenty of roads in Ireland where speeds a good bit in excess of 160kph could be safely achieved in the right car in the right conditions with a good driver.
Sure Rally drivers do it on our worst back roads.

Thats fine for people than are able to drive at that speed, however, Mr. and Mrs Sunday driver, the 80 year old nun, the Tractor that shouldn't be on the motorway and the wildlife that doesn't know the rules of the road are enough reason for not to be going at that type of speed.

craichoe

leon8v wrote: »

There are plenty of roads in Ireland where speeds a good bit in excess of 160kph could be safely achieved in the right car in the right conditions with a good driver.
Sure Rally drivers do it on our worst back roads.

On a closed road... If a rally driver came around a bend and Jimmy Joe was baytin along at 50kph in his Massey it would be a different story.

Roads aren't straight enough, too many exits and too many muppets.

leon8v

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Thats fine for people than are able to drive at that speed, however, Mr. and Mrs Sunday driver, the 80 year old nun, the Tractor that shouldn't be on the motorway and the wildlife that doesn't know the rules of the road are enough reason for not to be going at that type of speed.

The comment made above was that Irish roads arent suitable because they arent striaght enough, Its not that Irish motorways (the few we have) arent suitable for speeds of 160kph, its some of the Irish people that arent as you say. The old men in Mondeo's who would might have a heart attack if a car passed them in the overtaking lane at that speed, the tractor as you say who shouldnt be on the motorway, the garda who would be more interested in the fact you might have been even thinking about doing 160kph than the tractor that shouldnt be there in the first place. I dont think the wildlife comes into it. However if all the above knew to stay in the left lane and use their mirrors properly and were given some training on how to drive on a motorway then it wouldnt be an issue.
There is wildlife near the motorways of Europe with 130kph limits and the autbahns in Germany. Sure at that rate you shouldnt really go out at all as a satellite might drop from the sky too.

craichoe

leon8v wrote: »

There is wildlife near the motorways of Europe with 130kph limits and the autbahns in Germany. Sure at that rate you shouldnt really go out at all as a satellite might drop from the sky too.

On Germany Motorway there is a restriction on speed near residiential areas for noise reasons during certain hours, however the 130kph limit is only advisory, its up to you if you want to drive at that speed, if you hit a deer while you doing 160kph it is your own stupid fault. Most germans i've seen (except for the odd nutjob in a porsche) does around 120 - 130kp/h for two reasons:

1. Its about the optimal speed / fuel ratio
2. Its safer and less tiring than driving at 160 - 180 kp/h for an hour straight, less brown pants incidents when an idiot in a micra pulls out in front of you.

Irelands roads are not suitable for 160 kp/h, if you want to drive that fast, go to a track day.

Back on the rally driver point, bear in mind they have a map, a co driver telling them whats ahead and they've also memorised the course themselves.

leon8v

craichoe wrote: »

On a closed road... If a rally driver came around a bend and Jimmy Joe was baytin along at 50kph in his Massey it would be a different story.

Roads aren't straight enough, too many exits and too many muppets.

I used the example of rally drivers to make the point that if they can do it on the smallest of windy back roads (admitadely closed) then on the wide motorways it shouldnt be a problem for someone with a half decent driving ability. Irish motorways are capable of handling cars at 160kph and more, PLenty of cars are more than capable of this speed, the problem is the people behind the wheel.
Having driven on motorways in Europe, including Germany, they arent a place that you feel unsafe on. If you dont want to drive fast you stay in driving lanes (the right hand lanes in the case of the land of LHD)
At one stage last year I was on a 3 lane motorway in Europe and was just commenting to my passenger at how much of a pleasure it was to drive, watching people overtake and pull straight back in again, the two outside lanes were pretty much clear for miles of driving. Our speed while keeping with traffic was 140+kph and even doing 160kph we were still overtaken and nobody batted an eyelid. Was a pleasure to drive on that road and never at any stage felt like anyone was about to cause the end of the world by their speed.
Some people on this forum seem obsessed with speed and how it is the root of all evil, when if the same effort was put into improving the standard of driving in Ireland, be it Jimmy Joe baytin along in his Massey or Mr and Mrs Sunday driver in their Mondeo or the ones who dont know what the little reflective piece of glass stuck to the side of their car is for, it would go along way to improving road safety here.

L1011

craichoe wrote: »

Irelands roads are not suitable for 160 kp/h, if you want to drive that fast, go to a track day.

Our motorways have a design speed of 160km/h.

craichoe

At one stage last year I was on a 3 lane motorway in Europe and was just commenting to my passenger at how much of a pleasure it was to drive, watching people overtake and pull straight back in again, the two outside lanes were pretty much clear for miles of driving. Our speed while keeping with traffic was 140+kph and even doing 160kph we were still overtaken and nobody batted an eyelid. Was a pleasure to drive on that road and never at any stage felt like anyone was about to cause the end of the world by their speed.

I drive on European Motorway every day, Lane hoggers, people on phones, people reading maps steering with the knee, people arsing around with their sat nav. People pulling out into the overtaking lane without looking (saw a car get tipped as they pulled over without looking) they all exist here, it all happens.

craichoe

MYOB wrote: »

Our motorways have a design speed of 160km/h.

I'm sure they were designed for that speed, that does not make them suitable for that speed and i wouldn't mind seeing some information to back that claim up.

OldmanMondeo

Leon8v, the point I am trying to make is that we could design roads that will take cars traveling at 1000mph, but once you introduce any factor outside YOUR control you can not know what can or may happen. There is to many possibilities that could mean the difference between getting home safely and not getting home at all.

As for the Wildlife, did you ever see the picute that was going around of the Porchse that hit a bird at 120mph? the driver said he was lucky to be alive. You hit say a fox at 160kph, you will cause a lot of damage to your car, but you may also damage yourself and others. The M50 runs through Tymon Park in tallaght, I have seen foxes, badgers etc there. I also us the M4, just look at the large green space all around the Motorway from Lucan to well Mullingar.

Seth Brundle

NSFW: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/45089/ /NSFW:

leon8v

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Leon8v, the point I am trying to make is that we could design roads that will take cars traveling at 1000mph, but once you introduce any factor outside YOUR control you can not know what can or may happen. There is to many possibilities that could mean the difference between getting home safely and not getting home at all.

As for the Wildlife, did you ever see the picute that was going around of the Porchse that hit a bird at 120mph? the driver said he was lucky to be alive. You hit say a fox at 160kph, you will cause a lot of damage to your car, but you may also damage yourself and others. The M50 runs through Tymon Park in tallaght, I have seen foxes, badgers etc there. I also us the M4, just look at the large green space all around the Motorway from Lucan to well Mullingar.

Some places are more dangerous than others with regard to wildlife, thats why there are signs erected to warn people and anyone with a bit of cop on drives accordingly.
I assume you dont fly anywhere as its at high speed outside your control?

OldmanMondeo

leon8v wrote: »

I assume you dont fly anywhere as its at high speed outside your control?

I do yeah, but does your car or any car on Irish road have a pilot, co-pilot and navagator? Radar? Traffic Control? Routes pre planned and agreed with Flight controll agencies?

Straws, Grasping ring a bell?

L1011

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I do yeah, but does your car or any car on Irish road have a pilot, co-pilot and navagator? Radar? Traffic Control? Routes pre planned and agreed with Flight controll agencies?

Straws, Grasping ring a bell?

Routes preplanned = roads. As compared to a vast expanse of sky people can get lost in
Most commercial flights only have two crew these days, I occasionally have a passanger in back seat driver mode...

If anyones grasping at straws here, its you - roads are as controlled as the airways are realistically.

peasant

Folks ...never mind wildlife. As long as the majority if drivers on Irish roads isn't "designed" to cope with driving at high speeds, it doesn't matter what speed the road was designed for.

If you introduced a max speed limit of 160 km/h on motorways tomorrow, there would be absolute and utter carnage.

OldmanMondeo

MYOB wrote: »

Routes preplanned = roads. As compared to a vast expanse of sky people can get lost in
Most commercial flights only have two crew these days, I occasionally have a passanger in back seat driver mode...

If anyones grasping at straws here, its you - roads are as controlled as the airways are realistically.

Road preplanned, only when building them. When heading from A-B who plans the route? A pilot will notify traffic controll well in advance before take off, drivers hop into their cars an go. As for getting lost, how many navigation computers do planes use? I know your going to compare it to sat nav.

Back seat drivers are a pain in the arse not a trained helper / assisant.

Roads are controlled alright, by gatso vans... ie the subject of this topic..

leon8v

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Road preplanned, only when building them. When heading from A-B who plans the route? A pilot will notify traffic controll well in advance before take off, drivers hop into their cars an go. As for getting lost, how many navigation computers do planes use? I know your going to compare it to sat nav.

Back seat drivers are a pain in the arse not a trained helper / assisant.

Roads are controlled alright, by gatso vans... ie the subject of this topic..

How do gatso vans control wildlife running onto road. How do they control the Mr. and Mrs. Sunday driver you mentioned earlier who are under the speed limit but not paying attention?????
They dont.

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I do yeah, but does your car or any car on Irish road have a pilot, co-pilot and navagator? Radar? Traffic Control? Routes pre planned and agreed with Flight controll agencies?

Car has a driver, No need for a co-pilot or navagator, for example when travelling from the Airport on the M1 to say Dundalk, if you cant follow a straight road then there is no hope for you. Radar not really necessary at the speeds a car is capable of.
Traffic control, yes, all cars are travelling in the same direction, all cars fitted with wing mirrors and all drivers should be aware that the right lane is for overtaking, the left for driving and only pull out when it is clear to do so, objects in rear view mirror can be closer than they appear etc etc etc. Traffic control cant stop one plane flying into another, all they can do is advise them of where they are and ask them not to fly into each other.
Pilots are much better trained than motorists, thats why its safe to fly. If drivers in this country were better trained a higher motorway limit could be introduced here. The problem is they arent. Too many of them got their licence for nothing back whenever Gaybo and co got them. The rest have to undergo what is quite frankly a ridiculous testing scheme.
Routes pre planned.... Well If I am on the M1 heading north as in the earlier example, I know where I have to turn off, when it gets to the part when I am unsure of roads, I will be relying on the sat nav and probably driving well under the posted limit anyway.

jmayo

Best example of revenue gathering Gatso van placement I will give is a couple of years ago (2006) driving form Mayo to Dublin on day of match in Croke Park.
On Mullingar bypass i.e. first dual carriageway that any driver from Mayo would get to drive on, there was a white gatso van parked up around the first major bend that leads onto flat straight on that road.
Now can anyone tell me why it was there at 10am?
Was it a deterrent or was it there to just catch people who had probably been stuck behind cars going 10/15 kph below limit for the last 20 odd miles.
The first opportunity to pass was that dual carriage which is 100 kph so it was very easy to end up doing 110-115kph passing a few cars.

Yes it is breaking the law, but the easy way of getting people to slow down would have been to park highly visible traffic corp car and people would get the message.
Instead there was van parked up on the grass with back window pointing to cars coming around a bend.

It is tactics like these that make general public skeptical that the primary function is not to deter speeding/dangerous driving but to actually get money.

OldmanMondeo

Leon & Myob, The point I am trying to make is that while we do have roads that would be capable of allowing cars to drive at 160kph or more, we don't however have the drivers with the skill base to allow it.

The subject of Planes V Cars was brought up, Planes have a better safety rating than cars, yes I know tat there are more Cars driving everyday than planes flying. But Conditions are generally more safer for planes to fly than cars to drive. Your not gong to get a deer run out in front of a plane...unless it Santa and Co.. Also Pilots spend years and thousands on training, as for Driver training of the general public, well do I need to discuss?

OldmanMondeo

jmayo wrote: »

Best example of revenue gathering Gatso van placement I will give is a couple of years ago (2006) driving form Mayo to Dublin on day of match in Croke Park.
On Mullingar bypass i.e. first dual carriageway that any driver from Mayo would get to drive on, there was a white gatso van parked up around the first major bend that leads onto flat straight on that road.
Now can anyone tell me why it was there at 10am?
Was it a deterrent or was it there to just catch people who had probably been stuck behind cars going 10/15 kph below limit for the last 20 odd miles.
The first opportunity to pass was that dual carriage which is 100 kph so it was very easy to end up doing 110-115kph passing a few cars.

Yes it is breaking the law, but the easy way of getting people to slow down would have been to park highly visible traffic corp car and people would get the message.
Instead there was van parked up on the grass with back window pointing to cars coming around a bend.

It is tactics like these that make general public skeptical that the primary function is not to deter speeding/dangerous driving but to actually get money.

There is usually a speed check there, no matter if there is a match or not. and they do have the corps there visable.

Marcus.Aurelius

jmayo wrote: »

It is tactics like these that make general public skeptical that the primary function is not to deter speeding/dangerous driving but to actually get money.

It seems that way to most people. The truth of it is that gardaí are not in it for the money, but rather, the returns. This is the number of detections, and in the mind of senior officers with thumbs to twiddle, is a measurement of progress and success. :rolleyes:

L1011

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Leon & Myob, The point I am trying to make is that while we do have roads that would be capable of allowing cars to drive at 160kph or more, we don't however have the drivers with the skill base to allow it.

The subject of Planes V Cars was brought up, Planes have a better safety rating than cars, yes I know tat there are more Cars driving everyday than planes flying. But Conditions are generally more safer for planes to fly than cars to drive. Your not gong to get a deer run out in front of a plane...unless it Santa and Co.. Also Pilots spend years and thousands on training, as for Driver training of the general public, well do I need to discuss?

Look up "birdstrike".

jmayo

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

There is usually a speed check there, no matter if there is a match or not. and they do have the corps there visable.

I haven't seen a speed check there, but they used to be ones at the end towards the west, hiding under the bridges at one point. Also had gatso van parked beside lake at exit for Multifarnham further west.
One of the few times I have seen night check on that dual carriageway is further along from Flynns garage as you head towards Dublin.

Either way placing gatso van at that time of morning at that point is purely revenue gathering.
Parking high vis car and you get people slowing down and you have better effects. You just don't get the revenue stream.

I know it is not the gardai themsleves but orders do come fromtheir superiors.

OldmanMondeo

I don't know if we are talking about the same place, I am talking about where the Dual Carraigway used to end, before they opened the M4, in a place called "The Downs". The reason they are here is because there are a couple of houses from before the Dual carraigeway was built.

I would agree with them on this point because you have a lot of traffic with drivers who don't use this road regulary, therfore they would be unaware for any possible roadwroks etc going on. As for the people who don't speed / get caught, it does send the message that the boys are watching.

leon8v

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Leon & Myob, The point I am trying to make is that while we do have roads that would be capable of allowing cars to drive at 160kph or more, we don't however have the drivers with the skill base to allow it.

I never disagreed with that point. The initial point I disagreed with was that Irish roaads were not capable of allowing cars to drive at 160kph and it wasnt you that made it.
I do however disagree that Gatso vans and speed cameras are the solution to the above problem, ie that we dont have the drivers with the skill base to allow it. If Drivers were trained properly in this country then we could have higher motorway limits. While there are plenty of people who could safely drive at 150/160kph on certain motorways in Ireland, there are more who cant drive on motorways full stop!!

GreeBo

MYOB wrote: »

Look up "birdstrike".

from www.birdstrike.org
"219 people have been killed worldwide as a result of wildlife strikes since 1988."
What was your point? Or were you just nit picking?

L1011

GreeBo wrote: »

from www.birdstrike.org
"219 people have been killed worldwide as a result of wildlife strikes since 1988."
What was your point? Or were you just nit picking?

My point was that his claim that the potential of wildlife strikes should cause speed limits to be lower is invalid if he thinks air travel is safe.

How many people have actually died from hitting deer, etc? I doubt the figure is all that much higher.

OldmanMondeo

MYOB wrote: »

My point was that his claim that the potential of wildlife strikes should cause speed limits to be lower is invalid if he thinks air travel is safe.

How many people have actually died from hitting deer, etc? I doubt the figure is all that much higher.

MYOB, it is not just the fact of people getting killed, it is also the damage being done, eg Brand new van in our job hits a large-ish dog, collie size, driving around the 60kph mark, €1400 damage to van.

Oh, I never said Air travel was safe, no travel is, it just safer than driving a car.