A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

And you have shown nothing but your own opinion to back this up.
No mention of particlars of treaties in the works, no examples from the lisbon treaty to show how other treaty would do anything you claimed.
Nothing except your personal belief claimed as fact.

Can you point out, where I put personal belief in the equation:p


I stated many facts. You didn't see them.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Can you point out, where I put personal belief in the equation:p

The personal belief that Europe will go the way of every other superpower.

mysterious wrote: »

I stated many facts. You didn't see them.

You claim they are fact but offer nothing to support them as such.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

The personal belief that Europe will go the way of every other superpower.

No I didn't. I said that there is evidence to suggest that it will go like every superpower. Unless you can prove that there is a superpower that ever ended up a democracy and peaceful.

You obviously don't know what a superpower does, in order to remain one.

Here is My personal view, I will say, I don't see why Europe will be different. Since power corrupts and democracy is'nt real, once the peddle is going in the direction of the elite wanting a super state.

The fact remains though There has never been change to this cycle since the beginning of mankind, now this is a fact.

So your quite wrong again

I've yet to see where I'm scaremongering and using my beliefs to persuade people here.

You claim they are fact but offer nothing to support them as such.

I have, you ignore the facts I've shown. I've had to correct you twice and pull you up once on twisting my words.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

No I didn't. I said that there is evidence to suggest that it will go like every superpower. Unless you can prove that there is a superpower that ever ended up a democracy and peaceful.

If there's evidence please show it.
I can't show a superpower that ended up a democracy because what's happening in Europe has never happened before.
Drawing parallels to the Roman empire and stuff is useless because the European union is nothing like the roman empire.

mysterious wrote: »

I've yet to see where I'm scaremongering and using my beliefs to persuade people here.

mysterious wrote: »

Here is My personal view, I will say, I don't see why Europe will be different. Since power corrupts and democracy is'nt real, once the peddle is going in the direction of the elite wanting a super state.

So vote yes on Lisbon and Europe will get rid of democracy and the elite will form a superstate to control everyone?

How is this not scaremongering?

mysterious wrote: »

I have, you ignore the facts I've shown.

You're just stating things as fact and refusing to back them up with anything other than your personal beliefs.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

If there's evidence please show it.

I did, my third time telling you, you don't read it. I'm sorry I cannot keep pointing it out nor will I.

I'm not here to teach adults basic things here.

I can't show a superpower that ended up a democracy because what's happening in Europe has never happened before.

You really think that:D Democracy. They thought USA was a democracy too. I hate to say thats bull****.

Drawing parallels to the Roman empire and stuff is useless because the European union is nothing like the roman empire.

They have alot in common. Both an elite entity wanting to take over a continenet, the same continent even. The only difference, is different time period and different methods obviously.

So vote yes on Lisbon and Europe will get rid of democracy and the elite will form a superstate to control everyone?

How is this not scaremongering?

Distorting my words I have debunked this **** a hundred times. By you.
I explained this is not what I said. I've explained already go and vote yes if you want or wish. I'm not interested to know your decision either.

So either prove my scaremongering or shut up about it.

You're just stating things as fact and refusing to back them up with anything other than your personal beliefs.

Your stating alot of false facts and false impressions of me.

You really need to take a good look at your own posts before you go on the attack judging all the time.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

I did, my third time telling you, you don't read it. I'm sorry I cannot keep pointing it out nor will I.

I'm not here to teach adults basic things here.

Then just point it out again. Or link to the post with the evidence.
Why is that so hard?

mysterious wrote: »

You really think that:D Democracy. They thought USA was a democracy too. I hate to say thats bull****.

Unfortunately the evidence is against you on this. America is a democracy.

mysterious wrote: »

They have alot in common. Both an elite entity wanting to take over a continenet, the same continent even. The only difference, is different time period and different methods obviously.

Well the Romans tried to gain control through military force applied to locals.
Europe however is a union of indenpendant nation states signing to to certain trade agreements and common laws.
There is nothing showing that Europe wants total control of the internal working of it's members.

mysterious wrote: »

Distorting my words I have debunked this **** a hundred times. By you.
I explained this is not what I said. I've explained already go and vote yes if you want or wish. I'm not interested to know your decision either.

So either prove my scaremongering or shut up about it.

You are claiming that Europe is going to control us all and take away democracy.
What is that?

mysterious wrote: »

Your stating alot of false facts and false impressions of me.

You really need to take a good look at your own posts before you go on the attack judging all the time.

What false facts?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

Then just point it out again. Or link to the post with the evidence.
Why is that so hard?

Because your selective in what you want to read and what you want to hold as evidence

I''m not lapdog, barking for you.:p

Unfortunately the evidence is against you on this. America is a democracy.

Is it really though?

"democracy" War on Iraq? People were against it, to the pont of how many years later, still very much a topic of dicussion.

Since America is a very brainswashed nation. They woke up to this trick. Now it's clear people are not going to tolerate a US president deciding on going to war against the people.

Cus this does not represent America. Most American's would speak their minds about that.

We live in a false reality that we live in a democracy. Democracy looks real because it's temporary.

Well the Romans tried to gain control through military force applied to locals.
Europe however is a union of indenpendant nation states signing to to certain trade agreements and common laws.

The smartest and most valid point in this whole thread. Now we are getting somewhere.

The elites still have the same goals but use new different methods I hope you will see in your own lining. Therefore the ruling elite has never supressed its ruthless idealogy to retain more power and control That will never change of course. Human nature will tell you that.

The difference between Rome and the New Europe. They are finding new ways the elite are finding ways to control us, using treaties, amendments and regulations for this system. The process of making this happen would take far longer than the Roman times of course. Doesn't change the fact of, of power corupting and power leading to more power and control. Rulers will always be rulers. Leaders will always be leaders. And followers will always be followers.

You can very easily control a nation with these treaties, because "we live in democracy" right. Where you put your vote for a treaty. You put yourself up for it. You live and abide by this system. So you lose your own power. Bit by bit slowly but surely. The elite don't have to force you or use physical force to get you to give up your power. They can easily use manipulation and a smart choice of words.

The same old story is still here today. just new lines added and new techniques added as time goes on. Powers of be and ruling elites are no less evil or better than they were throighout history. They are no different in wanting to acheieve their goals. They are just doing things differently than before.

There is nothing showing that Europe wants total control of the internal working of it's members.

I wouldn't bet my life on that.

You are claiming that Europe is going to control us all and take away democracy.
What is that?

The making of a superpower.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Because your selective in what you want to read and what you want to hold as evidence

I''m not lapdog, barking for you.:p

What the hell are you on about?
Why not show exactly where you've provided this evidence?

mysterious wrote: »

Is it really though?

"democracy" War on Iraq? People were against it, to the pont of how many years later, still very much a topic of dicussion.

Since America is a very brainswashed nation. They woke up to this trick. Now it's clear people are not going to tolerate a US president deciding on going to war against the people.

Cus this does not represent America. Most American's would speak their minds about that.

We live in a false reality that we live in a democracy. Democracy looks real because it's temporary.

Yes really. Despite your silly rhetoric.
I'm not sure if you noticed but a democrat was elect precisely due to Bush's unpopularity. And because that the Democrats gained control of the house for the same reason.

mysterious wrote: »

The smartest and most valid point in this whole thread. Now we are getting somewhere.

The elites still have the same goals but use new different methods I hope you will see in your own lining. Therefore the ruling elite has never supressed its ruthless idealogy to retain more power and control That will never change of course. Human nature will tell you that.

The difference between Rome and the New Europe. They are finding new ways the elite are finding ways to control us, using treaties, amendments and regulations for this system. The process of making this happen would take far longer than the Roman times of course. Doesn't change the fact of, of power corupting and power leading to more power and control. Rulers will always be rulers. Leaders will always be leaders. And followers will always be followers.

You can very easily control a nation with these treaties, because "we live in democracy" right. Where you put your vote for a treaty. You put yourself up for it. You live and abide by this system. So you lose your own power. Bit by bit slowly but surely. The elite don't have to force you or use physical force to get you to give up your power. They can easily use manipulation and a smart choice of words.

And have you anything to show that this is what the European Union is going to do? Or is it just the assertion that power corrupts.
What methods exactly are they using and can you back this up?
What exactly in the Lisbon treaty would allow of any of this?

mysterious wrote: »

The same old story is still here today. just new lines added and new techniques added as time goes on. Powers of be and ruling elites are no less evil or better than they were throighout history. They are no different in wanting to acheieve their goals. They are just doing things differently than before.

And what evidence do you have that this is Europe's goal?
Who are these powers that be?

mysterious wrote: »

I wouldn't bet my life on that.

Then can you show something to support it with out going into more silly power corrupts stuff?

mysterious wrote: »

The making of a superpower.

No it's a baseless accusation.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

What the hell are you on about?
Why not show exactly where you've provided this evidence?

I did. You wont read them, I have three pages. What evidence do you want know, like which are you going to selectively read now.

The next time you ask me to repeat myself. I will deny ignorance and not post to that behaviour.

.
I'm not sure if you noticed but a democrat was elect precisely due to Bush's unpopularity. And because that the Democrats gained control of the house for the same reason.

Oh I see:D So America and the politics of America miracolously changed.
Just like when Bush was elected (not elected assgined) cough cough. Many people couldnt believe Bush got in the second time never mind the first time.

But American politics is hugely deceptive. It doesn't matter if your Dem or Republican. It's about the money. Who has the money, and who is going to make the money. And how are we a superpower going to make money in this term. These are questions that do be going on behind the scenes. We are just given a perspective and an idealogy of whos going to be presdient of America. The elites and bankers are putting their money into their candidate and misleading the masses into voting for whoever.

And have you anything to show that this is what the European Union is going to do? Or is it just the assertion that power corrupts.
What methods exactly are they using and can you back this up?
What exactly in the Lisbon treaty would allow of any of this?

The future will determine that, right now you need to decide do you want a superstate of Europe or you don't

Knowing the consquences and past history in relation to superstates and empires into account.

And what evidence do you have that this is Europe's goal?
Who are these powers that be?

I thought you knew alot about Europe:D

Oh dear, oh deary dear.

Then can you show something to support it with out going into more silly power corrupts stuff?

You do know power does corrupt, are you familar with this basic fact. King mob your great enterainment. You really are, you go on deaf years to many stances in order to refrain from hearing the truth.:D

No it's a baseless accusation.

A super state Europe is no secret. Just like it's no secret that beatles were a popgroup ffs.

King Mob

So I see we've left rational discussion here.


So...
If lisbon gets passed Europe will force us all to wear clown suits all the time.

Why because power corrupts and the roman empire fell.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

So I see we've left rational discussion here.


So...
If lisbon gets passed Europe will force us all to wear clown suits all the time.


Why because power corrupts and the roman empire fell.

No you mean you instead of "we"

Don't put me into this we business, You can dig your own irrational thinking if you like.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

No you mean you instead of "we"

Don't put me into this we business, You can dig your own irrational thinking if you like.

Yep because asking you to back up your claims is so irrational.

mysterious

On my ignore list, I'm not going to get into childishness with you and speicifically entertain this. I've explained my, points clearly on this thread. I've given a tremendous amount of time, explaining in much detail, of how power and human nature is very on topic and important in this case. I have answered and provided, evidence on many stances. I have given clear indicators of what has happened in the past, what has history shown us. What is a superpower and what a superpower represents and needs to do in order to remain a superpower. I've given examples past exampes. I have given past examples. i've explained on two such countries, USA and China. I used the Bush administration and it's recent actions as a validation of this behaviour. I've explained how the elites uses control today by other means and not physical force. Most of us can understand how politics can do this.

I've given a pretty constructive argument. i have repeated myself tireslessy. And king mob, I'm not going to tolerate your ignorance.

It's up to you now what you want to take on board or ignore. You ignore alot of things quite well. You've made it clear you don't read my post. So why the hell should I repost my evidence and explanations again.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

On my ignore list, I'm not going to get into childishness with you and speicifically entertain this. I've explained my, points clearly on this thread. I've given a tremendous amount of time, explaining in much detail, of how power and human nature is very on topic and important in this case. I have answered and provided, evidence on many stances. I have given clear indicators of what has happened in the past, what has history shown us. What is a superpower and what a superpower is, represents and needs to do in order to remain a superpower.

I've given a pretty constructive argument. i have repeated myself tireslessy. And king mob, I'm not going to tolerate your ignorance.

It's up to you now what you want to take on board or ignore. You ignore alot of things quite well. You've made it clear you don't read my post. So why the hell should I repost my evidence and explanations again.

You say you provided evidence for stuff but refuse to point out where.
You claim that your "knowledge" of human nature and history indicates a European lust for power but refuse to back it up with anything substantial.
You have yet to provide one single rational reason to vote no on Lisbon.

But please keep lecturing me on my ignorance and childishness. It's adding so much to your argument.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

But please keep lecturing me on my ignorance and childishness. It's adding so much to your argument.

When your on ignore you can be the judge of your own posts:)

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

When your on ignore you can be the judge of your own posts:)

Huh wonder if you do the same?

So can anyone answer the question rationally?

Why should we not vote for the Lisbon treaty?

K-9

mysterious wrote: »

In a serene, non corruptive society that would be the case. But as I said by passing of each treaty they are gaining more power. The direction of a super state will keep going. They have mastered these treaties with clever writing and wording. So it will get passed.

I do hope your right people will see the bigger picture and realise that lisbon is only a small fraction of the agenda here with the elites.


The important thing, is to be aware of this. It's important to question the agenda here. It's important to use some foresight and suspect best and worst case scenerios that may happen. There needs to be dicernment here? We are talking about power, politics and elite agendas.

As more power is transferred to the EU, No voters seem to be increasing. To me, that is understandable.

Eventually the Irish people will say, enough is enough. Personally I don't think Lisbon is it, but there will be a Treaty were I will say enough is enough.

mysterious wrote:

The other thing to point out. Since we "live in a democracy";) cough. They don't force by power or fist. They put there power to us via signing over of these treaties. Your probably asking but whats wrong with it. Not much from looking at it. But each treaty is a step up the ladder. To what will be really wrong.

This democracy you cough at, gives us an opt out, unlike other countries on Lisbon.

Anyway, if the EU wants to go further, it will need other countries to have Referendums. That is what you are missing Mysterious.

Many No voters point to there being No other referendums in other countries and say Lisbon is 95% of the EU Constitution. Fair enough, thing is, that 5% is extremely important.

To get that extra 5% in the next Treaty, the EU needs Referendums in some countries!

mysterious wrote:

No your nitpicking.

You nitpicked yourself

I just pointed out, UK isn't. Read before you jump on the attack.

You now say other countries.

What other countries, I asked for links and you said there is none.

Nope, you brought up fluoridisation on an EU thread, nobody else. I actually don't need any links when all you can point to is a test case in Southampton.

I can point to Sweden, Germany and Holland, EU Members, withdrawing fluoride from their water supplies as the EU trend. All you can point to is Southampton.

You should admit flluoride has nothing to do with the EU. Why? Because snide snipes at the EU like that do your cause no good.

Taxation cannot be increased by Lisbon. Maybe a future treaty could, but again, that would need a referendum.

We will have more Referenda after Lisbon. Anybody who says otherwise is lying.

Basically, if you think politicians are misleading voters, don't mislead voters to try and prove it!

mysterious wrote: »

This kind of behaviour shows that your deliberately trying to ignore the actual point you refuse to want to accept.:D

I hope you can admit now that fluoridisation is not EU Policy.

mysterious

K-9 wrote: »

As more power is transferred to the EU, No voters seem to be increasing. To me, that is understandable.

Eventually the Irish people will say, enough is enough. Personally I don't think Lisbon is it, but there will be a Treaty were I will say enough is enough.

I have to commend you on your response. This is the sort of awareness I'm specifically talking about.This is something we should be talking about.

If you were go with your reasoning on the above, whats the point of Lisbon, when the next treaty will give more rules and more amendments but don't look threatening, the less we are aware in 10 years, it will be to late, as Europe as a superstate will already be here and there will be no going back, since each treaty was carefully assigned and planned at each time in order to pass along the events. The less we aware the easier it will be for the elites.

This is why the treaties are carefully asigned, planned, written cleverally, specifcally for a time period. Once this dice is rolled, it's on to continue the game.

I just don't see the logic, people who are yes voters fail to question the reality and what it might obviously lead too, and what it is and wil lead too.

A superstate Europe. I'd rather be prepared and ahead of the elite, by giving into this treaty I feel we have already lost

I respect that your at least awares of all sides, and that you understand where I am coming from, I would imagine,

This democracy you cough at, gives us an opt out, unlike other countries on Lisbon.

Yeah but for how long.

Anyway, if the EU wants to go further, it will need other countries to have Referendums. That is what you are missing Mysterious.

Of course, but I don't see the bicycle slowing the hill either.

Many No voters point to there being No other referendums in other countries and say Lisbon is 95% of the EU Constitution. Fair enough, thing is, that 5% is extremely important.

If it werent for Ireland, Europe would already by a year ahead in furthering it's next goal or next treaty. I'm just afraid it will be to late, if not already.

Nope, you brought up fluoridisation on an EU thread, nobody else. I actually don't need any links when all you can point to is a test case in Southampton.

I made an example. That is all. I have to look into this topic more, I would rather see the facts on hand that the EU are abolishing flouride, I just don't see how they would, since its a the hip thing to do amongst the governments.

I can point to Sweden, Germany and Holland, EU Members, withdrawing fluoride from their water supplies as the EU trend. All you can point to is Southampton.

You said all the EU are against it, I gave an example recently where it isn't and certainly Ireland. It's still divided. I don't need to argue this further with you. There ieally is no point in arguing over it. Untill the ban happens and that all countries abide to it.

You should admit flluoride has nothing to do with the EU. Why? Because snide snipes at the EU like that do your cause no good.

I haven't made any snipes at the EU over this

Basically, if you think politicians are misleading voters, don't mislead voters to try and prove it!

It involves a lot of self energy. I have learnt that no matter how much awarneess, evidence and time you give, and I mean and personally mean how much of yourself you give, to make the world a better place.

You will just constantly bump into ignorance, misinformed, stubborn, rude, rethoric nonsense from people. Since 9/11 I have seen people just relgiously and purposely believe the governments no matter what the naysayers, yes sayers and proof is provided, to help them dicern what is going on, and who is decepting them.

I try, but I'm not perfect. My agenda is to inform people for the benifet of the people and the good of the world and the good that remains in the world. This is an awakening period. This is a time where people. Should turn of the news, turn of the T.V and turn of Washington and the leaders that misguide was for thier own agendas.

This world is changing fast and it is not heading in the right direction. I will try and give as much perspective, evidence and awarness as I can. It's the responsibility of others to wake up too and become more aware of their environment too


The real flaw to humanity, is no matter how enlightened or how ahead you are or ahead you think you are, there is already much more to do much more to learn, much more to teach and much more to inform and much more to conquer. The more you do, the more oppostion and challlenges you face. The more people who want to be lead. The more you have lead. Humanity will never reach the idealogy I would have hoped. Since 2001 we have 8 years of chaos. I don't think there has been the momentum of awakening as I expected.:( Despite all the signs are clear. I have a real issue in trying to understand why some are not aware of it.

It's precisely why government's are as corrupt as they are, it's why they managed to trick us into wars. It's is why 9/11 happened it is why they to this day got away with it. It is why they did it, cus they are aware of reality and we are not. They will set another false flag and people will still blame other groups. People do find it hard to dicern and question the very thing they never ever dare point at.

The gameplayer all along. The people who make the rules break the rules

That is my two cents. I think I went a little of topic. But I had to post my own thoughts.


All I will say as the best advice I can give you. When you decide to vote. Seriously think before you mark the paper. Put your logic and feelings into perspective. Because either way this is a crucial decision for the beginning of what may happen or may not happen. It is something we must question and not just assume that the end all be all is what is said on this treaty. Because the elites and politicians are always bullsh!tters and always will be.

K-9

On a general note, you've completely missed my point. You are so obsessed with the EU ignoring democracy, that you can't see, that for the EU to get more power after Lisbon, they need referenda!

mysterious wrote: »

I have to commend you on your response. This is the sort of awareness I'm specifically talking about.This is something we should be talking about.

If you were go with your reasoning on the above, whats the point of Lisbon, when the next treaty will give more rules and more amendments but don't look threatening, the less we are aware in 10 years, it will be to late, as Europe as a superstate will already be here and there will be no going back, since each treaty was carefully assigned and planned at each time in order to pass along the events. The less we aware the easier it will be for the elites.

It's the nature of the beast! Still, most country have Constitutions, so the point about no referenda in other countries will be mute in the next referenda.

I don't think you'll get my point though, because you are so convinced the EU is the NWO. The EU is subject to each countries constitution, it can't break it without a Referenda. We are the exception because ours is very sensitive.

Still, after Lisbon, for the EU to increase it's powers by 5/10%, Referenda will be required in other countries. This is were your argument is very weak mysterious.

mysterious wrote:

This is why the treaties are carefully asigned, planned, written cleverally, specifcally for a time period. Once this dice is rolled, it's on to continue the game.

Maybe it's because 27 countries have to compromise on complex issues? France wanted stronger EU Army provisions, they ended up with extremely vague articles. Why? Because that's all they could get and ever will get. Can you imagine France, the UK and Germany in an EU Army?

mysterious wrote:

I just don't see the logic, people who are yes voters fail to question the reality and what it might obviously lead too, and what it is and wil lead too.

Huge generalisation mysterious, so huge, it's pointless.

mysterious wrote:

Yeah but for how long.

Until it removes our constitutional requirement to have a referendum. You seriously think the Irish people will vote for that after the last referendum?

mytsterious wrote:

If it werent for Ireland, Europe would already by a year ahead in furthering it's next goal or next treaty. I'm just afraid it will be to late, if not already.

Yet, for the EU to move forward, there has to be referenda in other countries.

Mysterious, what you miss is the EU is a legal organisation. It cannot gain more power than each state gives it. If a Treaty goes past a countries constitution, it needs a referendum.

mysterious wrote:

I made an example. That is all. I have to look into this topic more, I would rather see the facts on hand that the EU are abolishing flouride, I just don't see how they would, since its a the hip thing to do amongst the governments.

LOL, Sorry, I was being mischievous. Basically, I reversed your argument to see what you'd say. All you could reply with was Southampton, I could point out Sweden, Germany and Holland and probably more.

Fluoridisation has nothing to do with the EU and you introducing it into an EU Thread damages your point.

There is as much evidence in me saying the EU will remove fluoride from Irelands water as you saying the EU will bring fluoride to Europe.

mysterious wrote:

You said all the EU are against it,

Were?

mysterious wrote:

I gave an example recently where it isn't and certainly Ireland.

mysterious wrote:

Shock, horror, the EU disagrees on many things. Some NWO? How does a NWO get such power when there is such disagreement and compromise?


It involves a lot of self energy. I have learnt that no matter how much awarneess, evidence and time you give, and I mean and personally mean how much of yourself you give, to make the world a better place.

You will just constantly bump into ignorance, misinformed, stubborn, rude, rethoric nonsense from people. Since 9/11 I have seen people just relgiously and purposely believe the governments no matter what the naysayers, yes sayers and proof is provided, to help them dicern what is going on, and who is decepting them.

I try, but I'm not perfect. My agenda is to inform people for the benifet of the people and the good of the world and the good that remains in the world. This is an awakening period. This is a time where people. Should turn of the news, turn of the T.V and turn of Washington and the leaders that misguide was for thier own agendas.

This world is changing fast and it is not heading in the right direction. I will try and give as much perspective, evidence and awarness as I can. It's the responsibility of others to wake up too and become more aware of their environment too


The real flaw to humanity, is no matter how enlightened or how ahead you are or ahead you think you are, there is already much more to do much more to learn, much more to teach and much more to inform and much more to conquer. The more you do, the more oppostion and challlenges you face. The more people who want to be lead. The more you have lead. Humanity will never reach the idealogy I would have hoped. Since 2001 we have 8 years of chaos. I don't think there has been the momentum of awakening as I expected.:( Despite all the signs are clear. I have a real issue in trying to understand why some are not aware of it.

It's precisely why government's are as corrupt as they are, it's why they managed to trick us into wars. It's is why 9/11 happened it is why they to this day got away with it. It is why they did it, cus they are aware of reality and we are not. They will set another false flag and people will still blame other groups. People do find it hard to dicern and question the very thing they never ever dare point at.

The gameplayer all along. The people who make the rules break the rules

That is my two cents. I think I went a little of topic. But I had to post my own thoughts.


All I will say as the best advice I can give you. When you decide to vote. Seriously think before you mark the paper. Put your logic and feelings into perspective. Because either way this is a crucial decision for the beginning of what may happen or may not happen. It is something we must question and not just assume that the end all be all is what is said on this treaty. Because the elites and politicians are always bullsh!tters and always will be.

Sorry, politicians aren't the only bull****ters.

Fluoridisation was bull**** mysterious. Weakens your point immeasurably.

6th

mysterious wrote: »

I think I went a little of topic.

Yes. You did. Try not to do it again.

mysterious wrote: »

But I had to post my own thoughts.

No you didnt. If you want to rant or preach I suggest you get a blog. Any more ranting or off topic posts will result in a ban.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

Yes. You did. Try not to do it again.



No you didnt. If you want to rant or preach I suggest you get a blog. Any more ranting or off topic posts will result in a ban.

6th I was aware of it, I was talking purely about lisbon, but I did get off topic towards K-9 in a response. it was a mistake. I'm not perfect. I won't be continueing on this topic either.

it was no rant either. It's important people to express their views. I won't add to this thread any longer, if I feel bullied for just expressing certain assertions.

6th

6th wrote: »

Any more ranting or off topic posts will result in a ban.

mysterious wrote: »

6th I was aware of it, I was talking purely about lisbon, but I did get off topic towards K-9 in a response. it was a mistake. I'm not perfect. I won't be continueing on this topic either.

it was no rant either. It's important people to express their views. I won't add to this thread any longer, if I feel bullied for just expressing certain assertions.

Questioning mod warning in thread plus continuing off-topic posting despite warning. Banned for 1 month due to 1 x yellow card, 3 x red cards and 2 x 1 week bans.

Run_to_da_hills

Diogenes wrote: »

No you said



Theres nothing in the Lisbon treaty about putting microchips in our babies arms, or nuclear war, or barcoding your head. :

There may be nothing in the EU Constitution at present but whats stopping something being added in future. We must remember that our own Constitution will not hold a drop of water against any new rules and regulations that are sanctioned by a majority EU vode if we get bought out by Lisbon.

Diogenes wrote: »

Theres no difference. Well there is, the "Yes" campaign didn't suggest that if we didn't vote yes to the Lisbon treaty by suggesting we'd be nuked, our children would be microchipped and we'd have barcodes on our heads.

I personally do not believe babies will be the first to be chipped, It will be first offered on a "voluntary" basis to the elderly suffering from dementia, parole prisoners, sex offenders and those that are promiscuous with life threatening infectious diseases etc. From there it will creep into the rest of society as "something cool" till eventually becoming a manditory tool to preform commercial transactions.

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There may be nothing in the EU Constitution at present but whats stopping something being added in future.

Referendums.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We must remember that our own Constitution will not hold a drop of water against any new rules and regulations that are sanctioned by a majority EU vode if we get bought out by Lisbon.

And how exactly would Lisbon do this?
What part of Lisbon nullifies our Constitution?

Still not read it?

meglome

King Mob wrote: »

Referendums.

And how exactly would Lisbon do this?
What part of Lisbon nullifies our Constitution?

Still not read it?

Don't be silly King Mob. They just know it's gonna happen, who cares about evidence or any kind.

Hey 6th at what point after asking those pushing this CT for any evidence whatsoever can we just tell them to stfu talking rubbish?

6th

meglome wrote: »

Hey 6th at what point after asking those pushing this CT for any evidence whatsoever can we just tell them to stfu talking rubbish?

You dont. You learn to be content with knowing, and others seeing, that some people cant back up there claims. If you feel the need to rub someones nose in it then dont do it hear.

bonkey

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We must remember that our own Constitution will not hold a drop of water against any new rules and regulations that are sanctioned by a majority EU vode if we get bought out by Lisbon.

Why must we remember a piece of fiction like that?

If our Constitution "will not hold a drop of water" should Lisbon be accepted, then it doesn't hold a drop of water now...because there is nothing in Lisbon which would change things to that effect.

If our Constitution doesn't hold a drop of water now...then one has to ask what the EU needs Lisbon for in the first place, and why its so important to get us to pass it.

The only way this argument could hold water is if you could show the detail in the Lisbon Treaty which is key to this undermining of the Irish Constitution that you suggest.

Of course, that would be the detail that people have been asking for who-can-remember-how-long, only to be met with handwaving, and the occasional comment that its not Lisbon which will do it, but rather some unknown future treaty that Lisbon will apparently put us on the slippery slope towards.

Run_to_da_hills

According to this article The European Union is stepping up efforts to build an enhanced pan-European system of security and surveillance which critics have described as “dangerously authoritarian”.

It is only a matter of time before we have a "walk through" with Lisbon 2 and all these new surveylance measures like the EU ID card register, Eborders, internet surveillance systems, satellite surveillance, automated exit-entry border systems operated by machines reading biometrics and risk profiling systems.

All this will fall on us like a ton of bricks.

Don't say that you have not been warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/5496912/EU-security-proposals-are-dangerously-authoritarian.html

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

According to this article The European Union is stepping up efforts to build an enhanced pan-European system of security and surveillance which critics have described as “dangerously authoritarian”.

It is only a matter of time before we have a "walk through" with Lisbon 2 and all these new surveylance measures like the EU ID card register, Eborders, internet surveillance systems, satellite surveillance, automated exit-entry border systems operated by machines reading biometrics and risk profiling systems.

All this will fall on us like a ton of bricks.

Don't say that you have not been warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/5496912/EU-security-proposals-are-dangerously-authoritarian.html

Ach RTDH, it's the Telegraph! Do you have a fairly independent and unbiased source?

K-9

RTDH can you point out how this affects us as Ireland and the UK are exempt from many policing and border control issues in Lisbon.

The Lisbon Treaty, currently stalled after Ireland's referendum rejection last year, creates a secretive new Standing Committee for Internal Security, known as COSI, to co-ordinate policy between national forces and EU organisations such as Europol, the Frontex borders agency, the European Gendarmerie Force and the Brussels intelligence sharing Joint Situation Centre or Sitcen.

Unfortunately it wouldn't be very secure if it wasn't secretive. Do you have a problem with better integration of information between police forces and Interpol?

King Mob

K-9 wrote: »

RTDH can you point out how this affects us as Ireland and the UK are exempt from many policing and border control issues in Lisbon.

The Lisbon Treaty, currently stalled after Ireland's referendum rejection last year, creates a secretive new Standing Committee for Internal Security, known as COSI, to co-ordinate policy between national forces and EU organisations such as Europol, the Frontex borders agency, the European Gendarmerie Force and the Brussels intelligence sharing Joint Situation Centre or Sitcen.

Unfortunately it wouldn't be very secure if it wasn't secretive. Do you have a problem with better integration of information between police forces and Interpol?

Of course he can't, he hasn't actually read the Lisbon treaty.

Doesn't stop him from make claims like this though.

polishpaddy

Why would he read something, when it's clearly not possible to read it?

K-9

polishpaddy wrote: »

Why would he read something, when it's clearly not possible to read it?

Well it seems many No voters did.

polishpaddy

I mean the ministers all over europe can't read it and you think the no voters did? You know as well as i do, thats not true.

K-9

polishpaddy wrote: »

I mean the ministers all over europe can't read it and you think the no voters did? You know as well as i do, thats not true.

What do you mean?

Plenty of No voters did read it and can give their opinions on it.

Maybe your point is most No voters didn't read it as really they don't have the time, same as most politicians don't have the time to read every subsection of the Treaty?

Do you really expect Cowen to spend weeks reading the minutae of Lisbon for weeks, thus neglecting his responsibilities on other issues? He has highly paid, qualified EU law experts to do that for him.

King Mob

polishpaddy wrote: »

Why would he read something, when it's clearly not possible to read it?

Because it is readable?
And because there is several resources online that make it more accessible to laypeople?

But if he hasn't read it and claims to not be able to understand how can he possible make claims like that one about it?

blackgold>>

99.9 percent of people who said they've read the treaty - well lets just say they're not telling the truth.
Being an issue of time is an gross understatement.It's firstly not a treaty, it's 300 pages of amendments to 3000 other pages of treaties and you can only read it if you take one amendment by one and then look it up in the "existing" treaties.

King Mob

blackgold>> wrote: »

99.9 percent of people who said they've read the treaty - well lets just say they're not telling the truth.
Being an issue of time is an gross understatement.It's firstly not a treaty, it's 300 pages of amendments to 3000 other pages of treaties and you can only read it if you take one amendment by one and then look it up in the "existing" treaties.

That's how international treaties work.

It has to reconcile with the laws and constitutions of all the countries involved as well as all the previous European Treaties.
It's not a surprise it's a complicated document.

But there are several resources online line that make it acceptable.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Of course he can't, he hasn't actually read the Lisbon treaty.

Doesn't stop him from make claims like this though.

Sure our YES promoting Finna Fail politicians also never read it also. :rolleyes:

blackgold>>

That's how international treaties work.

It has to reconcile with the laws and constitutions of all the countries involved as well as all the previous European Treaties.
It's not a surprise it's a complicated document.

But there are several resources online line that make it acceptable.

Why would you have the need to explain to me how international treaties work? Am i missing something here?

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Sure our YES promoting Finna Fail politicians also never read it also. :rolleyes:

So you are comparing yourself to FF politicians!

That's me convinced!

What advisors did you use to help you?

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Sure our YES promoting Finna Fail politicians also never read it also. :rolleyes:

So now we've established in the time since the treaty has been proposed you have made no effort to read or try to understand it.
Way to fight for the truth against the NWO lies.

Since this is the case, how in the hell can you possibly make the claims you do about the Lisbon Treaty?

Or will you finally be honest and admit you're making them up?

Wreck

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order

Ok so, I'm voting yes cause the current world order sucks. Seriously, how could it possibly be any worse.

bonkey

blackgold>> wrote: »

99.9 percent of people who said they've read the treaty - well lets just say they're not telling the truth.

That's dangerously close to suggesting that people here are lying.

King Mob wrote: »

Or will you finally be honest

This is a step too far.

Folks...discuss the topics without making jibes - direct or thinly veiled - at each other.

DubTony

Hills, you need shooting for dragging this load of sh!te out of the gutter again.;)

Run_to_da_hills

DubTony wrote: »

Hills, you need shooting for dragging this load of sh!te out of the gutter again.;)

Just like the Lisbon will be dragged out of the gutter again in the upcoming referendum :rolleyes:

samson09

Its looking like the Lisbon treaty will be pushed through this time. I hear poor oul Ganley is hanging up his political boxing gloves and as the previous leader of the No campaign, tis a bad sign. Everyone thinks that we need to vote yes to get the economy back on track too, people are scared that if we vote no again things will continue to deteriorate.

Anyway folks, relax. There's a lot of talk about chips and one world banks and new world orders and although they are a possibility such things will never happen. I'm not saying its crazy talk, but I cant see people accepting such things. The penny will drop when the bas***ds take it too far and the whole house of cards will implode on top of itself. They are treading on very thin ice at the moment, all it will take is one comex default and the fiat ponzi scheme will be laid bare for all to see. I see more and more people freaking out about this, take it easy folks. Just concentrate on getting out of debt and looking after you and your familys health.

And remember, humanity has yet to play the ace in her sleeve. I wont say what year the card will be played, but I'm sure most of you know anyway

d0gb0y

samson09 wrote: »

And remember, humanity has yet to play the ace in her sleeve. I wont say what year the card will be played, but I'm sure most of you know anyway

Humanity is a she:eek:

Whats this ace up the sleeve?

WakeUp

DubTony wrote: »

Hills, you need shooting for dragging this load of sh!te out of the gutter again.;)

With all due respect Tony that would be your opinion of which your entitled to. Me saying that to you is my opinion of which I am entitled to.

WakeUp

Wreck wrote: »

Ok so, I'm voting yes cause the current world order sucks. Seriously, how could it possibly be any worse.

Your entitled to vote whatever way you want is up to you but that comment is not contributing anything to the discussion, in my most humble of opinion.