A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order.

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Currently one must provide ID at ANY age in most States in America to purchase alcohol at a liqueur store or enter a bar, Age limit normally 21.

Except if you look over 21.
But damn that NWO for stop kids from drinking.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Currently a driving license or passport is acceptable. It is impossible to log convictions on to the current ID used however in 2011 the Real ID card will be introduced as a multi purpose ID card. This card has the potential to be swiped and updated by the authorities if convicted of an alcohol offense.

If you are illegally caught carrying cans or being drunk they can swipe your card on the spot. Using RFID they have the potential of track & trace on every can you bought and where you got it in case it ends up in the wrong hands. Your card will show up everything. Etagging is the way things are going.

Or they do what they do now. Why do they want to make it more complicated?

And where is this in the Lisbon treaty?

starn

King Mob wrote: »

Except if you look over 21.
But damn that NWO for stop kids from drinking.

Or they do what they do now. Why do they want to make it more complicated?

And where is this in the Lisbon treaty?

Its all there Mob. The only reason you dont remeber reading it. Is because the mind police wipped your memory of it.

Men In Black wasnt just a film you know. But a thinly vailed exspose

King Mob

starn wrote: »

Its all there Mob. The only reason you dont remeber reading it. Is because the mind police wipped your memory.

Men In Black wasnt just a film you know. But a thinly vailed exspose

Don't worry I can see the Fnords!

starn

Ho ho ho. Post six hundred and sixety six. I saved this for you Run_to_the_hills guess who I am. Ill be brining you thru the hole in the wall later. So you better watch out. MWAH MWAH MWAH

King Mob

Oh and 600 for me. It can't be a coincidence!

WhaLofShi

King Mob wrote: »

Except if you look over 21.

Actualy, that's not quite correct. My friend lives in Boston and his mother was carded going into a bar. She was 47 at the time. I was carded in New York when I was 33 (and looking every day of it ).

But this has been common in the States for years. Nothing unusual really.

meglome

WhaLofShi wrote: »

Actualy, that's not quite correct. My friend lives in Boston and his mother was carded going into a bar. She was 47 at the time. I was carded in New York when I was 33 (and looking every day of it ).

But this has been common in the States for years. Nothing unusual really.

Does that matter?

Run_to_da_hills

WhaLofShi wrote: »

Actualy, that's not quite correct. My friend lives in Boston and his mother was carded going into a bar. She was 47 at the time. I was carded in New York when I was 33 (and looking every day of it ).

But this has been common in the States for years. Nothing unusual really.

They don't even accept duplicate driving licenses in some states on liquer sales. I lived in MA, CA, WA, for almost two years. I had to show state ID all the time at the age of 30.


The difference is that microchipped ID will be 100% track & trace on sales and is opened to to any form of a restriction that is implied on it.

If you are caught drunk in public or drinking in public they could ban you from drink for 6 months. If you are caught again in that period they could throw the book at you.


Your card would show up the conviction if it is swiped in a liqueur store.

WhaLofShi

meglome wrote: »

Does that matter?

I'm sorry !!

What ?

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They don't even accept duplicate driving licenses in some states on liquer sales. I lived in MA, CA, WA, for almost two years. I had to show state ID all the time at the age of 30.


The difference is that microchipped ID will be 100% track & trace on sales and is opened to to any form of a restriction that is implied on it.

If you are caught drunk in public or drinking in public they could ban you from drink for 6 months. If you are caught again in that period they could throw the book at you.


Your card would show up the conviction if it is swiped in a liqueur store.

I hate using this argument but... if you've done nothing wrong, this won't affect you.

Please explain how track and trace on booze sales would impact negiatively on people who don't violate the law.

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They don't even accept duplicate driving licenses in some states on liquer sales. I lived in MA, CA, WA, for almost two years. I had to show state ID all the time at the age of 30.


The difference is that microchipped ID will be 100% track & trace on sales and is opened to to any form of a restriction that is implied on it.

If you are caught drunk in public or drinking in public they could ban you from drink for 6 months. If you are caught again in that period they could throw the book at you.


Your card would show up the conviction if it is swiped in a liqueur store.

And this is a bad thing because.......
People being charged for drunk driving is a evil NWO scheme?

And where is this mentioned in the Lisbon treaty?

Ciaran500

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Your card would show up the conviction if it is swiped in a liqueur store.

The card doesn't store any convictions. So that would mean every off license would need access to police records. Not going to happen.

javaboy

Ciaran500 wrote: »

The card doesn't store any convictions. So that would mean every off license would need access to police records. Not going to happen.

+1. The cards wouldn't hold much more than your name, a unique identifier and possibly a photo but in reality they'd probably go down the traditional route and have a photo printed on the card itself.

Gordon

How many kb/megabytes do they have the capacity for?

Ciaran500

Gordon wrote: »

How many kb/megabytes do they have the capacity for?

Not sure, but they're read only.

WhaLofShi

javaboy wrote: »

+1. The cards wouldn't hold much more than your name, a unique identifier and possibly a photo but in reality they'd probably go down the traditional route and have a photo printed on the card itself.

It's not really important for the cards to hold any information. Name , rank and serial number are all that's needed. Should any government decide to legislate that all alcohol sales be monitored by a central computer, communication between the card terminal in the store and the central computer, could, theoretically, inform the shopowner / assistant whether or not that person could be sold alcohol. Having the necessary equipment in the store could be a requirement to getting an alcohol sales licence.

starn

WHY WOULD ANY GOVERMENT WANT TO DO THAT.
How does it help them control the world by knowing smeone prefers Miller to Bud and Vodka to gin

Would it not make more sence to monitor whch books someone buys and what newspapers they read. Then weater or not they prefer red wine to white.

Your just clasping at straws. None of it makes any sence

Just take a minute to think about what your writting and ridiculous it looks.

WhaLoofShi....
Exactly

javaboy

Gordon wrote: »

How many kb/megabytes do they have the capacity for?

I'm not sure of figures tbh and even if I was, it would be somewhat pointless as I don't think even RTDH expects this to happen too soon. Most current RFID systems simply hold a unique identifier like a PPSN or SSN or employee number. It would technically be possible to make one hold a lot more but power issues come into play so for the moment, I wouldn't expect many passive RFID tags to have a capacity >1mb. I'm sure somebody else who spends a lot more of their time on this stuff can correct me.

The real issue isn't capacity. Tampering and synchronisation between the centralised 'rap sheet' and the one contained on the card would be bigger problems. That's why nobody would rely on the card to hold the info.

WhaLofShi

starn wrote: »

WHY WOULD ANY GOVERMENT WANT TO DO THAT.
How does it help them control the world by knowing smeone prefers Miller to Bud and Vodka to gin

Would it not make more sence to monitor whch books someone buys and what newspapers they read. Then weater or not they prefer red wine to white.

Your just clasping at straws. None of it makes any sence

Just take a minute to think about what your writting and ridiculous it looks.

WhaLoofShi....
Exactly

I unignored you because I actually had a feeling you were baiting. Looks like I was right.

Now, if you'd care to actually think about my post after casually browsing over it you'll understand what it is I'm saying.

You know what, I'll save you the trouble of disturbing your brain cells and cover it for you.

If any government should decide to .... doesn't mean any government WILL. As to your "question" of why any government would ... how the hell would I know what any future governemnt would legislate for?

My post makes no mention of any governemnt caring what a person buys. It simply states that a computer would inform the sales person whether or not a customer should be allowed purchase alcohol.

I have no idea why anyone would want to monitor what books are read by specific people or what colour they prefer their alcohol to be.

starn wrote:

None of it makes any sence.

Just take a minute to think about what your writting and ridiculous it looks.

.... and my writing looks ridiculous :rolleyes:

Nice to see that you were able to figure out how I formed my username. Maybe one or two of those brain cells are working after all.

I think I might even leave you off my ignore list, just to see what nonsense you come back with.

starn

Your right I havent read all the thread nor do I intend to. From what Ive read from your last few posts you belive that there is a sinster NWO conspiracy { Which has no relevence to the lisbon treaty unlees Im missing something. But as Ive pointed out in other posts Iam quite slow. So mybe you can explain in further} to control peoples acces to achol

Now Im sorry but why go to all the trouble of hassel of doing this. Instead of say controlling peoples acces to books, newspapers, the internet, etc, etc. Which would make a lot more sence to me if I was trying t control the world. Then telling Joes Sixpack. Hes not getting one to night. Or moitering what his favorite beer is.

As for your personal attack I suffer from quite sever Dylsxia. Which I mention in other posts in other forums. So I apologise if it makes my posts a little hard to read. But dont for one minute thing im going to let you barnd me a idiot for it. But given you also clearly suffer from a debilitating mental disability [quite obiously more severe then mine] Ill forgive you and forget about it this time

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

I'm not sure of figures tbh and even if I was, it would be somewhat pointless as I don't think even RTDH expects this to happen too soon. Most current RFID systems simply hold a unique identifier like a PPSN or SSN or employee number. It would technically be possible to make one hold a lot more but power issues come into play so for the moment, I wouldn't expect many passive RFID tags to have a capacity >1mb. I'm sure somebody else who spends a lot more of their time on this stuff can correct me.

The real issue isn't capacity. Tampering and synchronization between the centralized 'rap sheet' and the one contained on the card would be bigger problems. That's why nobody would rely on the card to hold the info.

Most current RFID smartcards contain 64KB chips that store a copy of the information equivalent from a passport's data page, including name, date of birth and a digitized version of the passport photo. There are newer high-capacity 64kb chips (Similar to High Capacity SD cards) that could store and update your financial, medical, demographic data, basically everything about you.

Once the card contains your 18 digit social security or PPS number the scanner can match this against a central database. With the way the Euroopean Union is handing over all this information because of this "war on terror" to the US authorities it would not surprise me if it is already up and running.

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most current RFID smartcards contain 64KB chips that store a copy of the information equivalent from a passport's data page, including name, date of birth and a digitized version of the passport photo. There are newer high-capacity 64kb chips (Similar to High Capacity SD cards) that could store and update your financial, medical, demographic data, basically everything about you.

It wouldn't make any sense for the card to store records beyond the basics. They would just get hacked and therefore be unreliable as a source of info.

Phototoxin

Looks like all these Cyberpunk RPGs and settings have gotten it right !

Gareth37

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most current RFID smartcards contain 64KB chips that store a copy of the information equivalent from a passport's data page, including name, date of birth and a digitized version of the passport photo. There are newer high-capacity 64kb chips (Similar to High Capacity SD cards) that could store and update your financial, medical, demographic data, basically everything about you.

Once the card contains your 18 digit social security or PPS number the scanner can match this against a central database. With the way the Euroopean Union is handing over all this information because of this "war on terror" to the US authorities it would not surprise me if it is already up and running.

So what you are saying is that we will become robots? Basically if we accept these animal chips the world dictators will know every movement, control us and we will be slaves? Is this what you are saying?

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

It wouldn't make any sense for the card to store records beyond the basics. They would just get hacked and therefore be unreliable as a source of info.

They would have to have the basics, Ie if someone got pulled over by the cops and scanned away from a connection. A certain amount of info would be required.

It would probably contain nothing more than is on a current license until its scanned. This is the proposed Real ID card with a sim chip and RFID but I have my doubts about the messianic pyramid. :P

Gareth37

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They would have to have the basics, Ie if someone got pulled over by the cops and scanned away from a connection. A certain amount of info would be required.

It would probably contain nothing more than is on a current license until its scanned. This is the proposed Real ID card with a sim chip and RFID but I have my doubts about the messianic pyramid. :P

Whats this card got to do with this?

javaboy

Gareth37 wrote: »

Whats this card got to do with this?

Nothing really but since we started out on this thread with a tenuous (non-existing?) link between Lisbon and the NWO, why stop now?

Ciaran500

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This is the proposed Real ID card

No its not. Blood type, occupation, weight, place of birth, hair colour, eye colour and religion won't be on a Real ID card.

Gareth37

starn wrote: »

Is that a picture of you. I actually thought you were older

Why make a personal attack on the man. He is giving out information on a conspiracy theory, nobody has to accept his theories but I don't think it should become personal ridicule.

Sorry, just trying to get people to stick to the real issue being discussed.

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

Nothing really but since we started out on this thread with a tenuous (non-existing?) link between Lisbon and the NWO, why stop now?

Topic Definitely on target.

The FIRST thing that will be introduced when this poisonous NWO pact is ratified will be to roll out the pan European National ID in card ASAP. Europe cannot let their US bed fellows go ahead with this card without following suit in this Global "War on Terror". :rolleyes:

The Government is only waiting for the EU to call the shots as they cant afford it themselves so they say.

Ciaran500 wrote: »

No its not. Blood type, occupation, weight, place of birth, hair colour, eye colour and religion won't be on a Real ID card.

May not be visible on the card. I presume blood group and would be optional as may be required in an accident. Only a sample, Im sure the Real Real ID would be no more different than the current US driving license except for the implant.

Ciaran500

Where is this in the Lisbon treaty?

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Topic Definitely on target.

The FIRST thing that will be introduced when this poisonous NWO pact is ratified will be to roll out the pan European National ID in card ASAP. Europe cannot let the States go ahead with theirs without doing one here, what about all the "terrorists" at large.

Our Government is only waiting for the EU to call the shots as they cannot afford it themselves, so they say.

What legislation is stopping them from rolling it out now?
What exactly in the Lisbon treaty would allow it? An actual quote from the treaty would be nice although I'm aware you haven't read it so I'm not holding out much hope.

What exactly is the point of posting this rubbish? Why do the NWO conspiracy theorists always have to exaggerate things and make up scary pictures? Is it perhaps because there is no real substance to their argument so they resort to making stuff up? Why can't you make your case without resorting to cheap gimmicks?

May not be visible on the card. I presume blood group and would be optional as may be required in an accident. Only a sample, Im sure the Real Real ID would be no more different than the current US driving license except for the implant.

You said "this is the proposed Real ID card". Yet it's clearly not because as Ciaran500 pointed out, there are several things on that picture of a card that won't be on the real Real ID card. But instead of admitting you're wrong, as usual you are trying to wriggle out of it.

Will you please admit that that is not a genuine sample of a Real ID card but is in fact some scaremongering propaganda from some dodgy source and that you were wrong to say it was the proposed card?

starn

Gareth37 wrote: »

Why make a personal attack on the man. He is giving out information on a conspiracy theory, nobody has to accept his theories but I don't think it should become personal ridicule.

Sorry, just trying to get people to stick to the real issue being discussed.

No your right sorry. I didnt mean it as a attack. ill go back an delete the post

Run_to_da_hills

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Where is this in the Lisbon treaty?

Do you honestly think the EU Parliament is going to mention about pan European Chipped National ID cards in treaty that could be jeopardized by a referendum. ROFL.

starn

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you honestly think the EU Parliament is going to mention about pan European Chipped National ID cards in treaty that could be jeopardized by a referendum. ROFL.

So why is the card relevent to a discussion on the Lisbon Treaty

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you honestly think the EU Parliament is going to mention about pan European Chipped National ID cards in treaty that could be jeopardized by a referendum. ROFL.

So why do they have to wait for Lisbon to be passed before they can roll it out then if it's not even mentioned in the treaty?

Run_to_da_hills

starn wrote: »

So why is the card relevent to a discussion on the Lisbon Treaty

One of the manifestos of the NWO is to control everyone on this planet with chipped ID cards prior to the verichip implant. The process must be done in steps. Once the Lisbon EU Constitution gets passed new security measures will be drafted in forcing Ireland to accept any new security measures laid down.

The UK which is the Guinea pig for the EU NWO superstate has already started the Chipped ID card and data process. They have a huge data base which they share personal information with their bedfellows in Europe and the US

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7765106.stm

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

One of the manifestos of the NWO is to control everyone on this planet with chipped ID cards prior to the verichip implant. The process must be done in steps. Once the Lisbon EU Constitution gets passed new security measures will be drafted in forcing Ireland to accept any new security measures laid down.

The UK which is the Guinea pig for the EU NWO superstate has already started the Chipped ID card and data process. They have a huge data base which they share personal information with their bedfellows in Europe and the US

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7765106.stm

javaboy wrote: »

So why do they have to wait for Lisbon to be passed before they can roll it out then if it's not even mentioned in the treaty?

starn wrote: »

So why is the card relevent to a discussion on the Lisbon Treaty

javaboy wrote: »

What legislation is stopping them from rolling it out now?
What exactly in the Lisbon treaty would allow it? An actual quote from the treaty would be nice although I'm aware you haven't read it so I'm not holding out much hope.

You're still dodging our questions. Perhaps a bigger font.

• Why can't they introduce these cards now?
• What exactly is in the Lisbon treaty that will allow for these cards?
• Will you admit you were wrong to claim that other card was the proposed Real ID card?

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

So why do they have to wait for Lisbon to be passed before they can roll it out then if it's not even mentioned in the treaty?

Do you honestly think that the Lisbon treaty would mention security measures concerning the acceptance of chipped Ids would get their support from Ireland.

This was NOT Even mentioned at all and the treaty was still rejected, they wouldn't have a hope in hell of passing it if it was. However one of the manifestos on the Lisbon treaty was "security", however they kept a lid on ID card issue because they know better.

The same subject was brought up a three years ago by the UK and EU commission/. It is only a matter of time before it will raise its ugly head again.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/13/uk_eu_id_proposal/

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you honestly think that the Lisbon treaty would mention security measures concerning the acceptance of chipped Ids would get their support from Ireland.

This was NOT Even mentioned at all and the treaty was still rejected, they wouldn't have a hope in hell of passing it if it was. However one of the manifestos on the Lisbon treaty was "security", however they kept a lid on ID card issue because they know better.

If the treaty doesn't mention them, how does it make allow for their introduction?

Please answer my three questions in the post above or you will lose any credibility you have in my eyes.

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

However one of the manifestos on the Lisbon treaty was "security", however they kept a lid on ID card issue because they know better.

Where exactly in the Lisbon treaty does it mention, or even hint, that rfid tags are part of it security plan?

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

If the treaty doesn't mention them, how does it make allow for their introduction?

Please answer my three questions in the post above or you will lose any credibility you have in my eyes.

The Lisbon Treaty Enshrines EU law as superior to Irish law

No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Union referred to in subsection 10° of this section, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State.”

The Treaty can be changed without another referendum

Article 48 of the Treaty enables changes to be made to it after ratification without the constitutional requirement for another referendum in Ireland. This is confirmed by the independent Referendum Commission on its website which states: there “may” be a requirement for a referendum to implement such changes.

Hands over power in 60 areas of decision making to Brussels

The Lisbon Treaty provides for more than 60 areas of decision making from unanimity at present to qualified majority voting. Some of those areas include decision-making on immigration, sport, culture, transport and the appointment of the European President and Foreign Minister.

Immigration is one of the key reasons for the introduction of chipped smart cards.

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The Lisbon Treaty Enshrines EU law as superior to Irish law

No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Union referred to in subsection 10° of this section, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State.”

The Treaty can be changed without another referendum

Article 48 of the Treaty enables changes to be made to it after ratification without the constitutional requirement for another referendum in Ireland. This is confirmed by the independent Referendum Commission on its website which states: there “may” be a requirement for a referendum to implement such changes.

Hands over power in 60 areas of decision making to Brussels

The Lisbon Treaty provides for more than 60 areas of decision making from unanimity at present to qualified majority voting. Some of those areas include decision-making on immigration, sport, culture, transport and the appointment of the European President and Foreign Minister.

Immigration is one of the key reasons for the introduction of chipped smart cards.

Well we're making progress anyway. I'm feeling generous so I'm not going to labour the point any more that there is no mention at all of the ID cards in those texts. I can accept that what you've quoted above might help facilitate the introduction of these cards in that it appears to give the EU some more control over Irish affairs.

Now for my other two questions that are still unanswered:

What piece of legislation is currently preventing the introduction of these cards?
What exactly is in the Lisbon treaty that will allow for these cards?
Will you admit you were wrong when you claimed that other card was the proposed Real ID card?

conceited

lol at the pic in the id, brilliant javaboy

Flamed Diving

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

From the website this picture is sourced from:

"If you are a member of the political establishment, God has sent me here to punish you... your life as you've known it is over." - Liz Michael in 1998 on her cable program "Lady Liberty"

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]I do believe that the peoples of the United States of America constitute the modern day "Israel" of prophecy as the only nation on earth today comprising all twelve tribes of historical Israel.[/FONT]

http://www.lizmichael.com/biograph.htm

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

bonkey

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The Lisbon Treaty Enshrines EU law as superior to Irish law

No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Union referred to in subsection 10° of this section, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State.”

The piece of text you quote does not match the heading you gave in bold. The Lisbon Treaty does not enshrine EU law as "superior" to Irish Law.

The Treaty can be changed without another referendum

Article 48 of the Treaty enables changes to be made to it after ratification without the constitutional requirement for another referendum in Ireland. This is confirmed by the independent Referendum Commission on its website which states: there “may” be a requirement for a referendum to implement such changes.

Half-true. There are situations where changes to the Treaty could have been performed without the need for another referendum. There are situations where changes to the Treaty required re-ratification, which - in Irish terms at least - meant another referendum.

The onus, therefore, would be on anyone making a claim that the treaty allowed X to be done without re-ratification, to show that X was covered by the "no re-ratification" clause.

Of course, given that you haven't read the Treaty, RTDH, its not terribly surprising to find that you're not representing it accurately. You've put your trust in a third party rather than doing your own research. Ironically, that third party has misled you, which is ironic when you consider your offered reasons for not reading the Treaty in the first place.

Hands over power in 60 areas of decision making to Brussels

The Lisbon Treaty provides for more than 60 areas of decision making from unanimity at present to qualified majority voting. Some of those areas include decision-making on immigration, sport, culture, transport and the appointment of the European President and Foreign Minister.

Immigration is one of the key reasons for the introduction of chipped smart cards.

This is again half-correct. Some aspects of immigration law were handled by the Treaty. The imposition of a national ID card is not an immigration issue.

bonkey

WhaLofShi and starn both infracted for their little spat.

Gents...civility isn't an option here.

Final warning to all participants, not just those infracted. No more personal attacks.

Gareth37

bonkey wrote: »

WhaLofShi and starn both infracted for their little spat.

Gents...civility isn't an option here.

Final warning to all participants, not just those infracted. No more personal attacks.

The New World Order is a fact.

Here is a solid conspiracy theories website

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/

humanji

I think you need to rethink your use of "fact" and maybe look up "credible sources" while you're at it.

Flamed Diving

humanji wrote: »

I think you need to rethink your use of "fact" and maybe look up "credible sources" while you're at it.

Blogs aren't credible sources?