A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order.

jonbravo

mysterious wrote: »

Cus this treaty isn't the result or final agenda, as you keep wording this present treaty to be.

This treaty like nice is a long line of many. Each have their roles. Once this is passed, the next treaty will have it's own set of mandates.

Each of them is a step by step process to eventually destroy our country as we know it now. Of course Lisbon is not going to do all of this detruction. But it's a step.

Oscar you keep putting a mental block on this very important aspect.

I'll use another example.
They say each president of America has it's objectives (like every treaty has) but each of the out going presidents are all part of the gloablist agenda. They all want to ensure America threshold in the world as the number 1 ruler. Yet each president seem different and had different policies.

But each of them were steps to the actual result. America wanting global control and ensuring it has enough power in the ME and keeping cheap oil coming in. Keeping China out of the equation. Just because these are not stated on paper doesn't mean it's not happening Oscar.

Each president actually was always furthering the agenda of the previous presidents. Just like the treaty example. Nice, then lisbon, then a second re vote, and after this is another.

Same as the consitution in America. All the old laws are slowly bit by bit are been removed to allow the government have greater power over the people. Allowing the government to interfere in your lives in any shape or capacity they feel necessary.

These are small stones in a big quarry. You really need to start thinking more broadly Oscar.

what if the... dare i say it, NWO is a good thing,i only hear the bad points what would be the good in it!? there most be some good!?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

Well we all know you won't. You still refuse to read it.

I did, and it's so unbelievably contradictory.
Second from what I read, I don't agree with almost all of it. I don't understand how we as a nuetral country would stay nuetral if we have to pay more taxes and spend more money in millitary. I don't see how we as a country can be nuetral when Europe wants a super Army

I thought these days were over. Seriously the lisbon treaty is the most confusing thing I've ever read. It contradicts itself to the point of have to be questioned. Is it deliberate to put something in black and white so hard to understand so we wouldn't actually really understand it.

My perception of someone doing this, is like someone random guy gives me a paragraph of terms and condtions that make no sense and incredibliy hard to disect and want me to sign it. Why would he want me to sign something like this and not understand it.

Because he has underlying agendas in it that he does not want you to pay attention too, He might not want you to understand the true course of it. He might simply want you to sign it for the sake of signing it, for his agenda.

This is what the lisbon treaty is protrayed at, Now you can all dance around the bush about this viewtake of mine. This is been said of the benfiet of all voters including yes and no.

I just don't see the logic in making a treaty so hard to read and actually forget. I have to admit I've forgotten some of the terms already.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

I did, and it's so unbelievably contradictory.
Second from what I read, I don't agree with almost all of it. I don't understand how we as a nuetral country would stay nuetral if we have to pay more taxes and spend more money in millitary. I don't see how we as a country can be nuetral when Europe wants a super Army

I thought these days were over. Seriously the lisbon treaty is the most confusing thing I've ever read. It contradicts itself to the point of have to be questioned. Is it deliberate to put something in black and white so hard to understand so we wouldn't actually really understand it.

My perception of someone doing this, is like someone random guy gives me a paragraph of terms and condtions that make no sense and incredibliy hard to disect and want me to sign it. Why would he want me to sign something like this and not understand it.

Because he has underlying agendas in it that he does not want you to pay attention too, He might not want you to understand the true course of it. He might simply want you to sign it for the sake of signing it, for his agenda.

This is what the lisbon treaty is protrayed at, Now you can all dance around the bush about this viewtake of mine. This is been said of the benfiet of all voters including yes and no.

I just don't see the logic in making a treaty so hard to read and actually forget. I have to admit I've forgotten some of the terms already.

Or maybe it's a complicated document because it has to fit the laws of a lot of different countries.

Maybe you can point out some of these contradictions?

mysterious

jonbravo wrote: »

what if the... dare i say it, NWO is a good thing,i only hear the bad points what would be the good in it!? there most be some good!?

It' a good thing if you want to live in aworld where your treated like a child, so yeah if you think thats a good thing, then it will be.

I have my views, my dreams, my freedom of speech, my choices. I dont want to be controleed by a satanic government. It is not in my nature to be controlled by other human beings.

Why the **** should another human being dictate my reality. Sorry for the profanity. But It just is so unbelievable that people actually think the word "control" is a good thing. When someone wants to control you. It's a sign of dsyfunction, fear and insecurity.

This is called insecurtity issues. The fear of losing control. You can't control the world. Nature and the laws of the universe will not allow it. Unless the NWO was controlling robots.of course as they are man made and man can control them easier.

Man is not destined to control man. Look at history. has it ever worked, despite the amount of power they have now, and how blinded most of humanity are right now.


Its one of the reasons why I'm sick half the time lookin at other almost lifelless and asleep these days. No one has the ability to think and act as themselves truly as they are.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

Or maybe it's a complicated document because it has to fit the laws of a lot of different countries.

Maybe you can point out some of these contradictions?

Ireland doesnt fit in it. it actually doesn't Cus most counties were exempt of a referendum. It was the elites who passed it within their countries.

You'd be surprise at the amount Europeans who object to it, despite been automatically passed by their government.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Ireland doesnt fit in it. it actually doesn't Cus most counties were exempt of a referendum. It was the elites who passed it within their countries.

You'd be surprise at the amount Europeans who object to it, despite been automatically passed by their government.

A referendum was required in Ireland because the treaty required a small change to the constitution.
If the NWO was just trying to pass it undemocratically, why bother with a referendum here?

Maybe you can point out some of these contradictions?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

A referendum was required in Ireland because the treaty required a small change to the constitution.
If the NWO was just trying to pass it undemocratically, why bother with a referendum here?

Maybe you can point out some of these contradictions?

Because going and taking the bull by the horns will wake up people up more. Like 9/11 they had to plan it and use it as a catylst for the recent wars. Otherwise the country would have went through a fallout or a revolution of wanting to overthrow the government.

You dont seem to think of the bigger picture. You actually DO have to plans these events like this carefully.

Our country has to have a referendum all the time as its within our constituion isnt it?

I already did point out contradictions in earlier post, did you fail to miss them or ignore them?

K-9

jonbravo wrote: »

what if the... dare i say it, NWO is a good thing,i only hear the bad points what would be the good in it!? there most be some good!?

What did the EU ever do for us?

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Because going and taking the bull by the horns will wake up people up more. Like 9/11 they had to plan it and use it as a catylst for the recent wars. Otherwise the country would have went through a fallout or a revolution of wanting to overthrow the government.

You dont seem to think of the bigger picture. You actually DO have to plans these events like this carefully.

Our country has to have a referendum all the time as its within our constituion isnt it?

I already did point out contradictions in earlier post, did you fail to miss them or ignore them?

Where exactly did you point them out?

K-9

mysterious wrote: »

Why the **** should another human being dictate my reality. Sorry for the profanity. But It just is so unbelievable that people actually think the word "control" is a good thing. When someone wants to control you. It's a sign of dsyfunction, fear and insecurity.

This is called insecurtity issues. The fear of losing control. You can't control the world. Nature and the laws of the universe will not allow it. Unless the NWO was controlling robots.of course as they are man made and man can control them easier.

Man is not destined to control man. Look at history. has it ever worked, despite the amount of power they have now, and how blinded most of humanity are right now.

Fair enough.

Most of that would apply to career CT'ers too!

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

Where exactly did you point them out?

A super army, hike in millitary spending, this contradicts with our nuetraility.

Yes voters says it won't, but really will it not?:rolleyes:

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

A super army, hike in millitary spending, this contradicts with our nuetraility.

Yes voters says it won't, but really will it not?:rolleyes:

You didn't point these out in a previous post.

Funny that the treaty won't do any of that.
Nor does the treaty contradict our neutrality.
Can you point out where the treaty says it's going to do either?

Is that all the contradictions, you said "it was full of them"?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

You didn't point these out in a previous post.

Funny that the treaty won't do any of that.
Nor does the treaty contradict our neutrality.
Can you point out where the treaty says it's going to do either?

Is that all the contradictions, you said "it was full of them"?

Then why a re vote?

oscarBravo

mysterious wrote: »

Cus this treaty isn't the result or final agenda, as you keep wording this present treaty to be.

I never said anything of the kind. Why do you feel a need to misrepresent me?

This treaty like nice is a long line of many. Each have their roles. Once this is passed, the next treaty will have it's own set of mandates.

Of course. Not sure what the problem is, tbh.

Each of them is a step by step process to eventually destroy our country as we know it now. Of course Lisbon is not going to do all of this detruction. But it's a step.

This implies that each of the treaties that we've signed up to, to date, has played a part in destroying our country, and that Lisbon will, in turn, play a part in destroying our country.

So, please explain to me what the destructive effects of the SEA, Maastricht, Amsterdam and Nice treaties have been, jointly and separately? What will the destructive effects of Lisbon be?

Oscar you keep putting a mental block on this very important aspect.

Nope. Of course the treaties are cumulative in effect: each treaty modifies the other. I fail to see the problem.

Each president actually was always furthering the agenda of the previous presidents.

Which is why Obama is overturning legislation introduced by Bush?

Just like the treaty example. Nice, then lisbon, then a second re vote, and after this is another.

Sure, but: what's the problem?

You seem to want me to believe that the treaties can have an effect other than what's written down in them in black and white. All that says to me is that you don't understand how the EU works, or how the treaties frame how it works.

But, as always, feel free to demonstrate otherwise.

These are small stones in a big quarry. You really need to start thinking more broadly Oscar.

No; you need to explain how an EU treaty can have effects that are not written in it.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Then why a re vote?

Why not a revote?
Many "issues" have been addressed.

Still waiting on those contradictions.

oscarBravo

mysterious wrote: »

A super army, hike in millitary spending, this contradicts with our nuetraility.

Yes voters says it won't, but really will it not?:rolleyes:

There's nothing in the treaty that requires us to increase military spending. Nothing.

If you believe there is, quote the relevant provision from the treaty. Not the bit about progressively increasing military capability; that's not the same thing.

Flamed Diving

mysterious wrote: »

They all want to ensure America threshold in the world as the number 1 ruler.

So an American Prez, without the NWO/whatever, would not want to maintain America's hegemony?

Nonsense.

6th

Mysterious, have you read the treaty?

jonbravo

mysterious wrote: »

It' a good thing if you want to live in aworld where your treated like a child, so yeah if you think thats a good thing, then it will be.

I have my views, my dreams, my freedom of speech, my choices. I dont want to be controleed by a satanic government. It is not in my nature to be controlled by other human beings.

Why the **** should another human being dictate my reality. Sorry for the profanity. But It just is so unbelievable that people actually think the word "control" is a good thing. When someone wants to control you. It's a sign of dsyfunction, fear and insecurity.

This is called insecurtity issues. The fear of losing control. You can't control the world. Nature and the laws of the universe will not allow it. Unless the NWO was controlling robots.of course as they are man made and man can control them easier.

Man is not destined to control man. Look at history. has it ever worked, despite the amount of power they have now, and how blinded most of humanity are right now.


Its one of the reasons why I'm sick half the time lookin at other almost lifelless and asleep these days. No one has the ability to think and act as themselves truly as they are.

you have already said that no-one controls your reality,your freedom etc etc and that is true and everyone wound agree on that ITS YOUR MAN MADE RIGHT since you were born. but someone or something has to control LAW in order for us all to have a reality,THE LAWS of nature is something else its notting to do with man made laws...Man is destined to control ,we do it anyway, we control our opinions,our lifes or freedom,our kids, some times for good... sometimes for bad.. depending on the persons.i think you fear someone in control, be it man made or nature...if everyone wants ireland to be like cuba cut off from the powers. im on for it at, all we would be missing is the t.v .to have an open-mind is to look at both sides of the coin if you will,if you dont do this then you dont have an open-mind..on this topic
like my question before what are the good points of the lisbon T,tell me what you think just the good points of the L.T.!?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

Why not a revote?
Many "issues" have been addressed.

Still waiting on those contradictions.

Issues, ah yes, Issues. It's one big issue.

when you disrespect the vote. You do know that most average people are against this nazi government.

We are a republic and thank god we are, cus thats why we have a referedum. But you of course go ahead and blindly vote for this nonsense. Cus its nonsense. Why should we be bullied by this.

For someone who is a fan of coherent reality. Why wasnt democracy, diplomacy, compromise and fairness used. Why can't these be used rather than a dictatorship "you must vote yes"

Like it or not, whether you see it or not. The lisbon treaty is the first step for the elite to have more control over Europe and our countries.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

Mysterious, have you read the treaty?

I did nearly a year since I read it. I really think it should be dumped.

If they cant compromise and respect Irelands position in this. Then why the **** should i spend more time reading something that does NOT need to be so difficult to read.

Everyone I know still have problems with this treaty. I'm serious everyone I know. My friends, my family, my peers, my workmates.

this is a contradiction and deception to me.

oscarBravo

mysterious wrote: »

Why wasnt democracy, diplomacy, compromise and fairness used. Why can't these be used rather than a dictatorship "you must vote yes"

My ballot paper had both "yes" and "no" boxes on it. Didn't yours?

Like it or not, whether you see it or not. The lisbon treaty is the first step for the elite to have more control over Europe and our countries.

...even though there's nothing written in the Treaty that gives them that control. I'm still waiting to hear how that works.

Oh, and who are these elite you speak of?

mysterious wrote: »

this is a contradiction and deception to me.

Do you know what the word "contradiction" even means?

mysterious

RTDH.

But thats good if your a japenese scienitist big into robot land and wants to live a robot world. Seriosuly what about reality outside.

Like freedom, living with not been tracked like a barcoded vegable on a checkout scanner.

Seriously this is crazy stuff that people are talking about. Crime is fuelled because of the current system in place now. Terrorism and extremism is a reality, because we project extreme reality and restrictions on our own reality. Therefore people will retaliate the system.


If you give a person, love, respect and freedom and world with no money and everyone with a equal view on each other as division of wealth is elimniated. Crime would be eliminated for more efficiently than this nazis system I can assure you. I'm willing to put my life on the line for what I believe.

But since the current yobs that rule your world, they are using control, force money and stuff like lisbon treaties. We abide by this reality. Why they smoke craic at the back gate entrance to the Strasbourg EU complex.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Issues, ah yes, Issues. It's one big issue.

when you disrespect the vote. You do know that most average people are against this nazi government.

We are a republic and thank god we are, cus thats why we have a referedum. But you of course go ahead and blindly vote for this nonsense. Cus its nonsense. Why should we be bullied by this.

For someone who is a fan of coherent reality. Why wasnt democracy, diplomacy, compromise and fairness used. Why can't these be used rather than a dictatorship "you must vote yes"

Like it or not, whether you see it or not. The lisbon treaty is the first step for the elite to have more control over Europe and our countries.

And can you point out the problem with the Lisbon treaty?
Or are you just going to go back to the european army nonsense even though that has been debunked?

Run_to_da_hills

jonbravo wrote: »

what if the... dare i say it, NWO is a good thing,i only hear the bad points what would be the good in it!? there most be some good!?

There is plenty of good points of what we can expect with the fortcoming "New World Order". :P.

Some of the following are already in place, some are on the way while others have been mentioned in the media but it will be only a matter of time before all the dots are connected.

Global cash will be eliminated from society leaving the black economy, crime as we know it, cash hold ups, drug dealing etc a thing of the past.

You can feel a lot safer boarding a plane, train or bus anywhere in the world as everyone boarding will be electronically scrutinized as they swipe their personal "all in one smart card". If you are a suspect your card will be blocked and will notify the authorities immediately. Onboard CCTV will also disclose your face live to the authorities.

Anyone who steps out of line can be electronically isolated from society. Their personal ID will be blocked and set off alarm bells if attempted to activate. They will not be able to buy, sell, travell or receive benefits such as medical or state assistance.

All Cigarettes and Alcohol will be etagged and traceable which will help stamp out smuggling and selling to minors. Illegal contraband can be detected several feet away with a scanner even if well disclosed.

Alcohol abuse will also become almost eliminated. You card will reveal your ID at point of sale. When purchased it will be swiped against your ID card. If you are caught drunk and disorderly your card will be blocked or suspended from further alcohol purchase. If an offender is caught with drink, the bottle can be traced by its E_tag to source.

You will feel a lot safer walking in public as almost every street corner will incorporate a highly sophisticated CCTV system, the next generation CCTV is extremely accurate and can pan, tilt zoom 360 24/7 and can be upgraded to 3D facial recognition with automated movement detection.

Stolen vehicles, traffic offenders and terrorists will become sitting ducks with the extensive network of inter operable ANPR and E_gantries. These will be located at toll plazas, congestion charge cameras, car parks, dumps, public car parks, drive by restaurants, service stations, hospitals, etc.

Police will have live access to all CCTV and E_Gantries, Transit Smartcard records, Internet, mobile phone service providers etc (All brought in through global "anti terrorism" measures)

The Internet will become safer place thanks to new "anti terrorism" legislation, less scammers, "naughty" bloggers, illegal downloaders etc because compulsory on line administration access will be enforced. In other words you will need your ID to get on line. By enforcing online registration VOIP can now be traced to registered IP addresses.

The mobile phone network will become water tight and almost impossible to be used for crime or illegal activity. Compulsory registration of all sim card numbers. Anyone who breaches this will be cut off and possibly barred from re connection. The Authorities will also have live access to all text and call records. (Drafted in Global "Anti Terror measures")

mysterious

Flamed Diving wrote: »

So an American Prez, without the NWO/whatever, would not want to maintain America's hegemony?

Nonsense.

Because you say so, Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.:rolleyes::D

Your responsse doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since you made it a question and yet you answered it yourself. With nothing as to back up yourself.

Good god what are you talking about.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Because you say so, Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.:rolleyes::D

Your responsse doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since you made it a question and yet you answered it yourself. With nothing as to back up yourself.

Good god what are you talking about.

You really don't see the hypocrisy in your post can you?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

And can you point out the problem with the Lisbon treaty?
Or are you just going to go back to the european army nonsense even though that has been debunked?

One.

Why make something so confusing, especially when it's in black and white.

Why a second re vote

Why no compromise

Why not respect the Irish vote

Why is the European elite, disrespecting our vote.

Why this behaviour, really these are just some simple realities playing out. I want your responses, I already specifically asked you this twice now, why can't you answer it?

6th

mysterious wrote: »

RTDH.

But thats good if your a japenese scienitist big into robot land and wants to live a robot world. Seriosuly what about reality outside.

And your reality is fine if you dont have children to support etc. You reality is VERY specific to you and doesnt seem to apply to anyone else. Rules etc must be put in place that benfit the general populous.

mysterious wrote: »

Like freedom, living with not been tracked like a barcoded vegable on a checkout scanner.

I feel safer knowing certain elements are being tracked. Paedofiles for one ... but let me guess, money and the elite made them touch the kids

mysterious wrote: »

Seriously this is crazy stuff that people are talking about. Crime is fuelled because of the current system in place now. Terrorism and extremism is a reality, because we project extreme reality and restrictions on our own reality. Therefore people will retaliate the system.


If you give a person, love, respect and freedom and world with no money and everyone with a equal view on each other as division of wealth is elimniated. Crime would be eliminated for more efficiently than this nazis system I can assure you. I'm willing to put my life on the line for what I believe.

You talk about the big crimes but what about violent crimes such as rape etc, surely money doesnt cause those crimes? How do you think those type of criminals should be dealt with?

And you're willing to put your life on the line? No you aren't. Again you are being overly dramatic.

mysterious wrote: »

But since the current yobs that rule your world, they are using control, force money and stuff like lisbon treaties. We abide by this reality. Why they smoke craic at the back gate entrance to the Strasbourg EU complex.

Comments such as the one bolded above are purposely exaggerated and tabloid to draw attention. If you want to make crazy wild remarks get a blog - dont post them here.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

You really don't see the hypocrisy in your post can you?

Funny how you spot things, and ignore other things ive posted?
See the hypocrisy there? no?

6th

mysterious wrote: »

One.

Why make something so confusing, especially when it's in black and white.

Why a second re vote

Why no compromise

Why not respect the Irish vote

Why is the European elite, disrespecting our vote.

Why this behaviour, really these are just some simple realities playing out. I want your responses, I already specifically asked you this twice now, why can't you answer it?

You answer a question with a load of "why" questions. How about you address what you are being asked.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Why make something so confusing, especially when it's in black and white.

Because it has to reconcile the law of all the countries who sign it. It's not black and white regardless of how much you insist otherwise.

mysterious wrote: »

Why a second re vote

Why no compromise

Because there was comprise http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland_Bill,_2008#Second_referendum

And that one of the main reasons it was rejected was because a lot of people boght the "lose our neutrality/lose our constitution" nonsense.

mysterious wrote: »

Why not respect the Irish vote

How are they disrespecting it?
By addressing the issues that caused people to reject it?

mysterious wrote: »

Why is the European elite, disrespecting our vote.

Who are these elite?

mysterious wrote: »

Why this behaviour, really these are just some simple realities playing out. I want your responses, I already specifically asked you this twice now, why can't you answer it?

And I've asked several times for you to point out what is actually wrong with the lisbon treaty. You respond with hyperbole and complete BS.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Funny how you spot things, and ignore other things ive posted?
See the hypocrisy there? no?

So your post was intentionally hypocrictical?

mysterious

6th wrote: »

And your reality is fine if you dont have children to support etc. You reality is VERY specific to you and doesnt seem to apply to anyone else. Rules etc must be put in place that benfit the general populous.



I feel safer knowing certain elements are being tracked. Paedofiles for one ... but let me guess, money and the elite made them touch the kids

Rules in place, of course, but overules, no. Doing something with good intentions fine yes. But overdoing this control thing is not good

We are not prisoners and we are not kids. We are adults, we don't need this inappropriate closet checking.

You know how silly its getting. In America recently a child was pulled over by securtiy because his name came up on the scann as a CIA suspect name. Both had the same names. Yet the woman had to be taken away from the child. The child was a threat to the security of the airport.

Some rules in place, do you not see what I'm trying to point out? This is getting way over board. The idea of banning tweesers on a plane now and you cant have a bottle of water on the plane if its over a 1L. In might be a bomb. The reality is the governments create and sponser terrorism, and yet the hypocrisy they implement rules to counteract the very things they create.

Why to control your reality. That is my point. Not for your safety.

You talk about the big crimes but what about violent crimes such as rape etc, surely money doesnt cause those crimes? How do you think those type of criminals should be dealt with?

Well yes, but money is the main reason there is alot of division, divide, corruption and greeed, so this will exaggerate alot of other problems in this world. As this is what money attracts in this world.

So if you gave we humans freedom, love, quality of life and balance, there would be far less rape then there is now.

And you're willing to put your life on the line? No you aren't. Again you are being overly dramatic.

No I'm not.

I already have. I no certain aspects to life, that reaasures my status. I'm willing to die for what I believe. Because my idea of reality and balancer fits my purpose here, and this reality does not fit my purpose in life. So I would die for my purpose. Quite content in doing so
We all have a purpose, it's up to you if you want to follow others purposes or your own OR for the greater good of all.

Comments such as the one bolded above are purposely exaggerated and tabloid to draw attention. If you want to make crazy wild remarks get a blog - dont post them here.

Oh jesus 6th, it was just a one liner, it was a bit of a joke for christs sakes. LMFAO at tabloid. I'm sorry but that was just to funny.

Oh good god, that was to attract attention. No it wasn't its just my style of humour and wit.

meglome

mysterious wrote: »

Because you say so, Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.:rolleyes::D

Your responsse doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since you made it a question and yet you answered it yourself. With nothing as to back up yourself.

Good god what are you talking about.

I refer back to my post about a messiah complex. You rarely answer anything directly in anything approaching sense. If you hate this treaty so much you'll be able to list the things in the treaty that are the problem, but you can't. Now if this stuff is not in the treaty at all then why shouldn't we vote yes.

mysterious

meglome wrote: »

I refer back to my post about a messiah complex. You rarely answer anything directly in anything approaching sense. If you hate this treaty so much you'll be able to list the things in the treaty that are the problem, but you can't. Now if this stuff is not in the treaty at all then why shouldn't we vote yes.

Let me tell you im Pro Europe, but this treaty and all of this baloney and behaviour towards our country and the bullying and fear complex for just for voting NO.

Then I'm clearly voting NO again this time.

What do you want me to say, it's all hunky dory and let the NWO begin. All I'll say now is you go ahead and vote YES. I will know the outcome in 10 years time, Time will tell you in itself what I;m saying now in 2009.

Go ahead guys do what you want. Vote again for a dictatorship. It has begun.... Oficial.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Let me tell you im Pro Europe, but this treaty and all of this baloney and behaviour towards our country and the bullying and fear complex for just for voting NO.

Then I'm clearly voting NO again this time.

What do you want me to say, it's all hunky dory and let the NWO begin. All I'll say now is you go ahead and vote YES. I will know the outcome in 10 years time, Time will tell you in itself what I;m saying now in 2009.

Go ahead guys do what you want. Vote again for a dictatorship. It has begun.... Oficial.

What exactly is wrong with the Lisbon treaty that makes you want to vote no?
Please just a straight answer?

6th

mysterious wrote: »

Rules in place, of course, but overules, no. Doing something with good intentions fine yes. But overdoing this control thing is not good

Ok so do you think you could draw up a list of laws that were black and white? Perfect laws that maintain safety for all without the possibility of a mistake?

mysterious wrote: »

We are not prisoners and we are not kids. We are adults, we don't need this inappropriate closet checking.

Yes we are adults and its adults that carry out the majority of crime. The same adults that neglect their children, are they they adults who should decided whats right? The adults who get drunk and then get behind the wheel of a car only to kill an innocent person?

mysterious wrote: »

You know how silly its getting. In America recently a child was pulled over by securtiy because his name came up on the scann as a CIA suspect name. Both had the same names. Yet the woman had to be taken away from the child. The child was a threat to the security of the airport.

back this up with some links etc or I might just start making up some of my own stories and say I read them somewhere,

mysterious wrote: »

Some rules in place, do you not see what I'm trying to point out? This is getting way over board. The idea of banning tweesers on a plane now and you cant have a bottle of water on the plane if its over a 1L. In might be a bomb. The reality is the governments create and sponser terrorism, and yet the hypocrisy they implement rules to counteract the very things they create.

Ok so say they do support it, does that make it impossible for someone to use a house hold object as a weapon on a plane?

mysterious wrote: »

Why to control your reality. That is my point. Not for your safety.

Even if its just as a secondary result do you not think the laws are worth having if they save lives?

mysterious wrote: »

Well yes, but money is the main reason there is alot of division, divide, corruption and greeed, so this will exaggerate alot of other problems in this world. As this is what money attracts in this world.

BUt there are problems that money doesnt cause. Very serious problems. Can you admit that removing money doesnt not mean we will live in a perfect world?

mysterious wrote: »

So if you gave we humans freedom, love, quality of life and balance, there would be far less rape then there is now.

The smily makes it seem like you think you're right. You're not. The fact is people are imperfect, always will be. To say that you know why people sexual abuse children and that you have a solution is an insult to victims all over the world.

mysterious wrote: »

Oh jesus 6th, it was just a one liner, it was a bit of a joke for christs sakes. LMFAO at tabloid. I'm sorry but that was just to funny.

Oh good god, that was to attract attention. No it wasn't its just my style of humour and wit.

Using overly dramatic words to get attention and make people believe certain things is a tactic - one you would condemn others f or if their agendas didnt sit well with your own.

6th

mysterious wrote: »

Go ahead guys do what you want. Vote again for a dictatorship. It has begun.... Oficial.

But wait, the people voted No last time, why say vote again for a dictator ship?

6th

King Mob wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with the Lisbon treaty that makes you want to vote no?
Please just a straight answer?

Mysterious, are you capable of answering this as directly as you can.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

But wait, the people voted No last time, why say vote again for a dictator ship?

Cus from what I gather (is falling around laughing) They want a yes as the only answer.

So if they want a yes as the only answer, and we vote no again.

Are they going to go for another vote. As this doesnt seem to be a democracy.

Am I mad here?

Nick_oliveri

I was also of the same opinion Mysterious, until i lurked AH and politics and someone said that certain parts of the treaty have been changed or ratified since the original vote.

I could be wrong on that though.. Anyone is welcome to differ!

6th

mysterious wrote: »

Cus from what I gather (is falling around laughing) They want a yes as the only answer.

So if they want a yes as the only answer, and we vote no again.

Are they going to go for another vote. As this doesnt seem to be a democracy.

Am I mad here?

So the people vote no. Small items in the treaty are amended.

They vote no again, more changes.

Surely they will vote YES when we eventually get what we want?

Oh and I dont give a sh*t if you are laughing there and I dont think you need to inform us of your every mood.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

Ok so do you think you could draw up a list of laws that were black and white? Perfect laws that maintain safety for all without the possibility of a mistake?

I believe that if we were given freedom and self empowerment, we wouldnt need so many laws.

As Adults, or I mean when we behave like adults and we get treated and respected like adults. We don't need to have overules. We are responsible for our own lives.

But it does seem to me, most human beings want overule. (wont go into this topic, to complex for here)

Yes we are adults and its adults that carry out the majority of crime. The same adults that neglect their children, are they they adults who should decided whats right? The adults who get drunk and then get behind the wheel of a car only to kill an innocent person?

So does the people who make the laws, My point again, why so much more laws to the point your freedom and liberties are in question. If not already in question since 2001, by false flag 9/11;).

There are rules in place for drink driving. I'm talking about our governments taking our liberties and putting a big brother tracking system everywhere you go. They create this paronia, fear and terrorism themselves. They create global warming. They would rather impose more laws and taxes on us and use more oil rather than actually doing the right thing.

back this up with some links etc or I might just start making up some of my own stories and say I read them somewhere,

What issue do you want me to back up. I will try my best on every point you point out.

Ok so say they do support it, does that make it impossible for someone to use a house hold object as a weapon on a plane?

Just to prove a point, of this idocy I can go to the toilet on an airplane and get tissue paper and stuff it down someones neck. Or I could just choke someone cus im board. I could elaborate. Since Air transport is the safest way to travel. It's kinda ironice that the government use these false terrorists acts as an excuse to tighten securtiy.

Logic here, is just another reason for the governments to have MORE CONTROL. that is simply the reason.

Even if its just as a secondary result do you not think the laws are worth having if they save lives?

I never did.

But I do dissagree with the new laws Obama wants to create right now, that means you can't speak out against the government over the net. and freedom of speech will slowly be torn up. it already is, if you look at many forums like boards already.

I got banned from ATS, cus you have tip toe around things, and you cant be honest and direct about certain realities. Government ccreate conspiracy sites anyhow. Another form of hypocrisy.

Another point of control, and not for our safety. as you keep putting. But I do agree with your stance there is a need of laws, but do you understand where I'm coming from?



[quote
BUt there are problems that money doesnt cause. Very serious problems. Can you admit that removing money doesnt not mean we will live in a perfect world?[/quote] Of course, but it is the next step of humanity, if it wants to evolve to balanced beings and as a balanced race.

Something I will not go into here, but I think you understand my point on this. Perfection is not the goal of humanity. Perfection is when the time and distance of the universe is complete and all comes to a halt, if that ever did happen I dont know but. Perfection is when time and distance is not relevant.

Using overly dramatic words to get attention and make people believe certain things is a tactic - one you would condemn others f or if their agendas didnt sit well with your own.

6th, you keep saying I used that one liner as a form of getting attention. Is outragous, since no one has given it such special attention but you.

There were no dramatic words and no words more than 10 letters, It was a joke, can you not let it go already seriously. Its getting embarrassing.

6th

Ok, Mysterious.

You are saying some laws are ok and some arent. Who deceided which ones? Can you tell us which laws?

Some parts of the LT are ok and some arent. Again can you actually point out what exact parts are not ok?

oscarBravo

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

I was also of the same opinion Mysterious, until i lurked AH and politics and someone said that certain parts of the treaty have been changed or ratified since the original vote.

I could be wrong on that though.. Anyone is welcome to differ!

The treaty hasn't been changed. It took several years to negotiate; changing it would require that negotiation process to be revisited, and every country that has already ratified to go through the whole ratification process again.

Which would be insane.

So, instead, the EU have given us some declarations. These are, effectively, separate documents in nice big print saying "Yes, we really mean the bit in the treaty that says we don't have a problem with Ireland staying neutral. Yes, we really, really mean it when we say Ireland doesn't have to legalise abortion." Etc, etc.

Basically, in response to the Irish voters saying "wah wah it's too complicated", a few dumbed-down declarations have been added.

mysterious

oscarBravo wrote: »

The treaty hasn't been changed. It took several years to negotiate; changing it would require that negotiation process to be revisited, and every country that has already ratified to go through the whole ratification process again.

Which would be insane.

So, instead, the EU have given us some declarations. These are, effectively, separate documents in nice big print saying "Yes, we really mean the bit in the treaty that says we don't have a problem with Ireland staying neutral. Yes, we really, really mean it when we say Ireland doesn't have to legalise abortion." Etc, etc.

Basically, in response to the Irish voters saying "wah wah it's too complicated", a few dumbed-down declarations have been added.

The re vote is insane too.

Right so you think and believe revisiting and compromising this treaty is more insane, than applying proper democracy. Think this sums it all up to me. good sweet lord.....
I want Ireland a country of its own. We are not children. And it's seem obvious the European elite are not taking no for answer.

Do you honestly think after 1000s years of British rule we will go through this **** again. I was very pro Europe. Now I'm disgusted with Europe.

The fact does remain they want to further millitary capacity, and this will effect our nuetrality. You can dance around it and try fool us Irish people for voting for this stupid treaty and everything will be good, but it won't be.

It's going overboard this treaty is. It was always about more control of the central European government over us individual countries.

No way is this going to happen, no way. How about obolishing this treaty Europe is fine as it is Unless you want a nazis Rome Europe.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

The re vote is insane too.

Right so you think and believe revisiting is more insane, than applying proper democracy. Think thi sums it all up to me. good sweet lord.....
I want Ireland a country of its own. We are not children. And it's seem obvious the European elite are not taking no for answer.

Do you honestly think after 1000s years of British rule we will go through this **** again. I was very pro Europe. Now I'm disgusted with Europe.

The fact does remain they want to further millitary capacity, and this will effect our nuetrality. You can dance around it and try fool us Irish people for voting for this stupid treaty and everything will be good, but it won't be.

It's going overboard this treaty is. It was always about more control of the central European government over us individual countries.

No way is this going to happen, no way.

Again for like the sixth time: what is wrong about the lisbon treaty?

oscarBravo

mysterious wrote: »

Right so you think and believe revisiting and compromising this treaty is more insane, than applying proper democracy.

The EU isn't a democracy. It's an organisation of member states. Those member states agree things among themselves. It's not a trivial process.

I want Ireland a country of its own.

Ireland is a country of its own. Lisbon won't change that. You've been challenged to demonstrate how it could change that, and you've waffled on at great length. Notably, you haven't answered the question, which strongly suggests to me that you have no rational basis for believing it, and have simply decided as an article of faith that Lisbon is bad.

I'm sorry, but I see no reason to accept your article of faith over my understanding of the Lisbon Treaty and the workings of the EU.

And it's seem obvious the European elite are not taking no for answer.

Once again - who are the European elite?

Do you honestly think after 1000s years of British rule we will go through this **** again.

Ye gods, 800 years wasn't enough, now it's multiplying.

The fact does remain they want to further millitary capacity, and this will effect our nuetrality.

No, it won't. The reason it won't is spelled out in black and white in the text of the treaty, which you claim to have read.

You can dance around it and try fool us Irish people for voting for this stupid treaty and everything will be good, but it won't be.

For reasons you refuse to articulate, and we're supposed to take your word for.

It's going overboard this treaty is. It was always about more control of the central European government over us individual countries.

In ways, apparently, that aren't written in the treaty. How does that work, again?

No way is this going to happen, no way. How about obolishing this treaty Europe is fine as it is Unless you want a nazis Rome Europe.

Europe is fine as it is? So you're perfectly happy with the provisions of the treaties of Rome, Maastrict, Amsterdam, Nice...?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Again for like the sixth time: what is wrong about the lisbon treaty?

Its just a bit too long winded for my liking.