Does Captaincy Mean Anything These Days?

cson

I'm just after reading a piece where Willy Gallas was mouthing off again. I've never been a fan of him as captain of Arsenal. He doesn't have a head on him for captain. At the same time I was asking myself; what does it mean these days anyway?

Watching the Arsenal - Man Utd game seeing Gallas and Ferdinand lead the teams out, I don't know it felt a touch flat. I kinda longed for the Keane - Vieira days, those two knew what it meant to be captain.

Basically, all I'm asking is; Does captaincy mean anything in the Premiership nowadays?

(As an aside, I'm of the opinion it doesn't and I'd love to see a Rugby Union style intiative introduced where only the captain can speak to referee. Breeds a lot more respect for officials imo)

Pigman II

cson wrote: »

(As an aside, I'm of the opinion it doesn't and I'd love to see a Rugby Union style intiative introduced where only the captain can speak to referee. Breeds a lot more respect for officials imo)

But that would suggest assigning a level of respect to refs? And we all know we can't have that in a game where f-ing and blinding at the officials and swearing black was white like a 6year old child in order to gain any advantage possible is seen as "normal behaviour".

CantGetNoSleep

Robinho being captain last week proves that it means f*ck all imo

redout

I dont think so. Some teams see it as important while others just seem to pick questionable choices. Examples would be Robbie Keane, Iker Casillas, and Dimitar Berbatov all captains of their respective countries and all highly questionable with more obvious choices being overlooked.

Kudos on the Rugby suggestion for captains. Watching a referee being surrounded by maybe half a dozen players can be intimadating and puts them under pressure to or not to award a decision.

PHB

I'm sorry but Ferdinand is an excellent and worthy captain, really is. Neville and Giggs were fine, but with Ferdinand you get a real leader on the pitch like Keane used to, albeit not to the same level [then again, who is to that level?]

Bubs101

cson wrote: »

Watching the Arsenal - Man Utd game seeing Gallas and Ferdinand lead the teams out, I don't know it felt a touch flat. I kinda longed for the Keane - Vieira days, those two knew what it meant to be captain.

It's not so much that those two new how to be captain (they certainly) but they had a really really entertaining feud and were always desperate to prove that they were better than the other. They hated each other. I'd say if you got a match with say Lehman and Kahn as captains or two other feuding players it would be just as good. Keane and Viera wasn't the norm for that time, it was far and above it

ntlbell

PHB wrote: »

I'm sorry but Ferdinand is an excellent and worthy captain, really is. Neville and Giggs were fine, but with Ferdinand you get a real leader on the pitch like Keane used to, albeit not to the same level [then again, who is to that level?]

have to disagree here i think neville is an excellent captain.

giggs isn't vocal enough and often rio is very quiet gary is pretty much in the mould of keane and lets rip at the right times...it also seems to mean a hell of lot to gary to lead to the team out where rio seems a bit "meh"

but when you see the likes of robhino being captained only in the side 5 minutes it's fecking redic.

I think Terry and gerrard are the only two "real" leaders left in the prem

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

I'm sorry but Ferdinand is an excellent and worthy captain, really is.

Didnt Ferdinand demand a pay rise virtually straight after being banned for nine months for missing a drugs test? wasn't he booed by his own supporter during this time for the sheer audacity of his behaviour?

Is that wat you look for in a captain? really?

Seperate

Mr Alan wrote: »

Didnt Ferdinand demand a pay rise virtually straight after being banned for nine months for missing a drugs test? wasn't he booed by his own supporter during this time for the sheer audacity of his behaviour?

Is that wat you look for in a captain? really?

You could find skeletons in everyones closet if you look.

Gerrard threatening to go to Chelsea, barry crying out to go to liverpool etc.

Even Roy Keane did the whole 'hold out for the money' thing.

Ferdinand has proved he is committed to the club over the last couple of years, and i'd be happy to see him made club captain when the fogies retire.

~Rebel~

By all accounts Gerrard is a first rate captain. Sometimes i think he leaves a bit to be desired, but whats just as important as on field captaining (perhaps moreso) is off the field captaining. Keeping everyone involved in things, stopping cliques, creating a proper 'Team' atmosphere and mentality.

I would say a lot of the lesser clubs have better captains then they're given credit for in a lot of cases.

<edit> And Seperate, in relation to your post above, Barry had his captaincy stripped.

As for Ferdinand, very good player, i just plain dont like the guy as a person.

Mr Alan

The Barry & Gerrard cases are totally different tbh. Totally.

Gerrard was his whole life at Liverpool, but thought they wouldnt be able to reach the top top level of club football again while he was there. He was tempted by a move to the newly rich Chelsea who were buying up the worlds best players. gerrard also offered up the captaincy when the incident was over, Carragher would have been next in line, he said no, that Gerrard was his captain.

Barry was a decade at a club around mid-table, in his peak years and wanted to ply his trade in the Champions league with a top club. and as rebel pointed out, has had his captaincy stripped.

Both players i think have a genuine love for their respective clubs.

Ferdinand on the other hand, moved to Utd, hadnt really proven himself or value for the massive fee they paid for him-missed a drugs test,banned for 9 months, came back-demanded a pay rise or he'd leave. Shocking behaviour and not comparable to the two lads you mentioned.

ps:as a captain Gerrard pisses me off a lot-seems afraid of the other England internationals sometimes, Rio/Terry etc....that has changed a little this year. He pissed me off no end at OT last year with the mascherano incident.

KevIRL

captaincy = double points

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ferdinand on the other hand, moved to Utd, hadnt really proven himself or value for the massive fee they paid for him-missed a drugs test,banned for 9 months, came back-demanded a pay rise or he'd leave. Shocking behaviour and not comparable to the two lads you mentioned.

I don't understand why Ferdinand still get stick for the drug test thing. He forgot he was supposed to have it and when he realised the mistake he offered to take it again but was told this wasn't feasible. People always overlook the fact Man City's Christian Negouai also missed a test and was simply fined £2,000. Not to mention players have actually been found guilty of taking drugs and have received lesser bans than Ferdinand. He was made an example of to placate the vile British media and their hate campaign.

As for demanding to leave, I think this was simply part of the negotiation process. United were making him out to be the bad guy. In his book he talks about a load of clowns who came on to his property with weapons wanting to know why he hadn't signed his contract. He explained to them that they should have more faith and I believe they left. As we know he did sign and that proved to be a good move for everyone.

I don't think there's anything shocking about his behaviour. On the contrary I think he's a class act. He's had to face a lot of adversity and criticism in his career yet has gone on to become one of the best defenders in world football. He is a great leader and always plays with plenty of spirit.

With regards to the topic I think there is a role for a captain in the modern game but I would have to say it is becoming increasingly overlooked and these days seems to be more of a pat on the back from managers, rather than a duty to truly inspire those around you. Robinho as Man City captain last week was a joke. It would be a bit like Berbatov being made the United skipper.

The best captains in the Premiership to me would be Gerrard, Terry and Ferdinand. I don't think Neville inspires those around him on the pitch although from what I've heard he's a great leader off of it and has earned a lot of praise for things like fighting for the player's rights.

Jazzy

Mr Alan wrote: »

Didnt Ferdinand demand a pay rise virtually straight after being banned for nine months for missing a drugs test? wasn't he booed by his own supporter during this time for the sheer audacity of his behaviour?

Is that wat you look for in a captain? really?

how long ago was that?




hes grown up quite a lot under fergie and although i still personally think rio is an idiot hes still a quality and vocal captain. hes respected in the dressing room, hes a great player, players listen to him and hes able to stand up to the opposition.


wat do u look for in a captain al? being a diver and a hypocrite who hands in a transfer request after winning the champions league... because yes al - gerrard did do that. but hes still a great captain.


read between the lines. for once

OPENROAD

cson wrote: »

. I kinda longed for the Keane - Vieira days, those two knew what it meant to be captain.

Keane also used to mouth off quite a bit, can't see the difference with Gallas


I do long for the days of Tony Adams though, a real Arsenal captain.

Mr Alan

**** sake Jazzy.

I'm not getting into the Gerrard thing, its been done to death, if you think its as you said it was, then you have obviously been living with your head under a rock the last couple of years.

I was not happy about wat he did, and have already said things about him annoy me as captain. but at least he has something that could be construed as a reasoning behind it, as opposed to Rios sheer greed. also Rio was there a week weekend before said incident, Gerrard had been a the club his entire professional career.

I agree in ways Rio is a good captain, but also, in other ways, he is not. eg: the eve of an international tournament-concentrate on the build up to this? nah, lets make a punked style show embarrasing his team-mates-good shout Rio. banned from the game for 9 months for missing a drugs test? come back, will you a)knuckle down & prove your club was right to stand by you, or b) demand a payrise or you'll leave.

these are not the things someone who demands respect does imo.

you seem to pride yourself on being the "reasoned fan", problem is, in an effort to prove this constantly, sometimes you throw out the baby with the bathwater and sound like more of an anti-popular view maniac. just so you know.

ditpoker

redout wrote: »

I dont think so. Some teams see it as important while others just seem to pick questionable choices. Examples would be Robbie Keane, Iker Casillas, and Dimitar Berbatov all captains of their respective countries and all highly questionable with more obvious choices being overlooked.

Kudos on the Rugby suggestion for captains. Watching a referee being surrounded by maybe half a dozen players can be intimadating and puts them under pressure to or not to award a decision.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Iker Casillas? How can you have a problem with Iker Cassilas? The man has been a vocal ever-present in both his club and country side for YEARS, since his teens. He IS Real Madird, he IS spain!!! I've watched my fair share of real madrid games and read a great deal about the club too, and to odubt Iker Casillas' merit as captain is just.... well.. very very wrong.

Mr Alan

I agree ditpoker....

CASILLAS FOR THE WORLD PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD!

Jazzy

was ferdinand captain back then? nope.
was gerrard captain when he wanted to leave? yep.
and back then is wat... 4/5 years ago? ppl grow and change in that amount of time. gerrard certainly has and amazingly, so has rio. what you have from rio now is someone who is sure footed so to speak. someone who knows the ups and downs... someone who has learnt their lesson. thats someone you can respect.

i dont "pride" myself on anything on boards al.
and isnt the popular view that ronaldo is actually the best player in the world?
your thinly veiled insults are a poor crop at best

Mr Alan

jazzy, that was by no means a thinly veiled insult. if i wanted to insult you, there would be nothing thinly veiled about it.

I have no reason to though, you're a good lad deep down.

strange you have found that time has proven a great healer in regards to Rios actions, but still regularly find time on these boards to criticizee Mr Gerrard for actions he did years ago. anyone would think you were trying your best not to sound like the super fans you hate so much strange that.

Jazzy

"being a diver and a hypocrite who hands in a transfer request after winning the champions league... because yes al - gerrard did do that. but hes still a great captain."

dont think rio has done anything in the past 2/3 years that warrants me putting him down. gerrard tho has opened his trap a number of times which has just caused trouble, hence the criticism. plus rio was only made captain last season instead of rat face

i dont hate superfans. i just think their opinion doesnt hold much weight

Mr Alan

whereas you feel, yours holds more.

i get it.

night.

Jazzy

nah, mine holds as much as anyone else without an agenda. "superfans" as you call them have a clear agenda and therefore any opinions they make are going to be too coloured to be accurate. thats why i think posters like PHB, Luckyloyd etc. are the few worth listening to as they are far more clear and fair despite their allegiances. others are worth listening to as well but there is still colour in their opinion, albeit not as much as say in karmafaerie or boggles posts. heck my posts are still coloured in some way, its practically impossible not to - wat makes us human and all. its cutting through the jargon and superfluous trimmings that gets irritating

Mr Alan

i agree.

i'll try do that for ya:

I have issues with Gerrard as captain.

I'd have more serious issues if Rio was our captain though!

ntlbell

OPENROAD wrote: »

Keane also used to mouth off quite a bit, can't see the difference with Gallas


I do long for the days of Tony Adams though, a real Arsenal captain.

when keane mouthed off he was usually talking some sense.

gallas is a ****ing child and talks utter rubbish

there's a huge difference..

OPENROAD

ntlbell wrote: »

when keane mouthed off he was usually talking some sense.

gallas is a ****ing child and talks utter rubbish

there's a huge difference..

In your opinion.

No matter what, keane was quoted numerous times having a go at team mates. was he not? That sort of thing should be kept in the dressing room.

Jazzy

yeah id prefer gerrard as captain rather then rio. both still top captains tho, just like terry is for chelsea.
i can see wat arsene likes in gallas, but imo hes just the best candidate for the job at arsenal. there is no1 on that team i see as a natural captain. maybe fabregas in a year or 2.

as for wat he said today, again i see wat he means... he just didnt need to say it to the press

redout

ditpoker wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Iker Casillas? How can you have a problem with Iker Cassilas? The man has been a vocal ever-present in both his club and country side for YEARS, since his teens. He IS Real Madird, he IS spain!!! I've watched my fair share of real madrid games and read a great deal about the club too, and to odubt Iker Casillas' merit as captain is just.... well.. very very wrong.

Well when you have someone like Carlos Puyol anchoring your defence and being the captain of Barcelona I have my doubts. Goalkeepers usually dont make good captains as they are not involved for long parts of the game hence why there are not many captains who are goalkeepers as they are isolated from play.

Casillas is not even captain of his club and has limited experience which occurs when Raul is subbed or injured. Puyol is a natural leader and captained Barca to La liga and the Champions League. He is a proven figure in his role as captain and far more logical choice in my opinion.

monkey9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't understand why Ferdinand still get stick for the drug test thing. He forgot he was supposed to have it and when he realised the mistake he offered to take it again but was told this wasn't feasible. People always overlook the fact Man City's Christian Negouai also missed a test and was simply fined £2,000. Not to mention players have actually been found guilty of taking drugs and have received lesser bans than Ferdinand. He was made an example of to placate the vile British media and their hate campaign.

No, he was made an example of so that other players who , if they knew that they would get a lesser punishment than those who were actually found guilty of taking performance enhancing or any other kind of drug, wouldn't start taking drugs knowing that they could just skip the test and get a lesser punishment than actually being done for drug taking.

Xavi6

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Robinho being captain last week proves that it means f*ck all imo

While I wasn't overally impressed with the decision I can see the method in the madness.

Without Dunne available we had no real 'leaders' available for the Hull game bar Hamann who wouldn't last more than 20 minutes. Richards is meant to be vice-captain ffs! That says it all.

Giving it to a player who might lift his game and play by example, inspiring others in the process, wasn't a bad idea from Hughes' point of view. Sure Beckham was hardly England captain because of the verbal bashings he dished out.

dfx-

Gerrard should maybe be the third choice captain behind Carragher and Mascherano at Liverpool. Maybe even behind Reina and Hyypia too.

Defenders and keepers should be captain generally. Otherwise I'd agree it's a largely pointless exercise.

Gerrard, Lampard, Robinho, Raul, Henry.

Puyol, Casillas, Baresi, Maldini, Carragher, Ferdinand, Terry..

ROCKMAN

Think the days of real captains are numbered to be honest, These days i can see it becoming more and more of a P.R. stunt with a hell of a lot of clubs and not the badge of honour it used to be.

LuckyLloyd

I think this recurring topic, above all recurring topics, is the one that makes me lol the hardest.

We are fans. We attend / watch games; talk with other fans; read / watch media pundits in order to form our opinions and outlook on the game. We may also play it at a relatively low level.

We don't have a clue what goes on before / during / after training sessions or matches at the elite level. We aren't a fly on the wall at half time in the dressing room. We aren't on the pitch and armed with a sufficient knowledge of the game to work out who the most effective on pitch communicators are (Hint: he who screams loudest and most often may not be the correct answer). We aren't privy to the details of lockerroom friendships and alliances. And have no clue which player is the guy who welcomes new transfers, puts an arm around lads struggling with form and is universally popular and respected by an entire club.

And yet, we still feel qualified to say that people are bad captains and someone else on a team should have the armband instead. **** sake. :rolleyes:

Tomthepost

cson wrote: »

I'm just after reading a piece where Willy Gallas was mouthing off again. I've never been a fan of him as captain of Arsenal. He doesn't have a head on him for captain. At the same time I was asking myself; what does it mean these days anyway?

Watching the Arsenal - Man Utd game seeing Gallas and Ferdinand lead the teams out, I don't know it felt a touch flat. I kinda longed for the Keane - Vieira days, those two knew what it meant to be captain.

Basically, all I'm asking is; Does captaincy mean anything in the Premiership nowadays?

(As an aside, I'm of the opinion it doesn't and I'd love to see a Rugby Union style intiative introduced where only the captain can speak to referee. Breeds a lot more respect for officials imo)

Gallas might not have the head for captaincy but at least he has the heart. Ferdinand has neither but then again they are champs of Europe.
Still some good captains out there. Laursen at Villa, Terry at Chelsea would be the best in the EPL at present I think.

event

i do think captains are very important, and i would prefer the vocal leaders like keane and shearer, but i wouldnt discount robinho.

no one knows at all what he is like in the dressing room, perhaps all the other look up to him and listen to what he has said

redout

event wrote: »

i do think captains are very important, and i would prefer the vocal leaders like keane and shearer, but i wouldnt discount robinho.

no one knows at all what he is like in the dressing room, perhaps all the other look up to him and listen to what he has said

He dont speak english ? he is learning though.

mormank

ya it means you can get paid more for sponsorship deals...

Lex Luthor

Everyone knows the real captain at Liverpool is Carra and its Neville at Man U.

The Captain should be a local lad, or someone who supported the club or has been playing with them for a long time who knows what the history of the club is all about and the pride it is to put the arm band on.

Preferably a central defender or midfielder (defensive). Shearer was an exception

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Didnt Ferdinand demand a pay rise virtually straight after being banned for nine months for missing a drugs test? wasn't he booed by his own supporter during this time for the sheer audacity of his behaviour?

Is that wat you look for in a captain? really?

I have no issue with a player asking for more money at any point. It's their job. How they deal with their wages with the club, and the Glaziers especially, have no bearing on me.

He was boo'd because nobody bloody liked him. He was a very very very annoying person. But he's matured and gotten a lot better. He realised that he wants the fans respect, and he started actign like it.
Beyond that, he's an absolute beast of a football player and a leader on the pitch whether he's captain or not, so yeh, he's what I want in a captain.