Shannon incident kept quiet for 10 months

unkel

Article

Why was this information not made public earlier?

Base

It was widely reported on at the time, it's just back in the news now because the official report has been published.

coup1917

unkel wrote: »

Article

Why was this information not made public earlier?

The co-pilot was probably back flying again in no time...

unkel

Base wrote: »

It was widely reported on at the time

Ah so it was. Here's the original indo article. Mods can close / delete this thread if they wish

Owen

The IIA do take time to release their public findings. You can usually find Incident Reports either on the IIA's website, or over on Flying in Ireland too.

Owen

From the article :

He asked a flight attendant to go through the passenger list to see if there were any pilots among the passengers.

Everytime I sit in a plane, I wish this'd happen. Part of me obviously wouldn't want that situation, but part of me says hell yes!

diverdriver

Which information? The fact that the First Officer was removed from the flight deck or the fact that a flight attendant sat in for the landing?

This was well publicised at the time. In fact headlines in quite a few newspapers.

The fact that the FA took the right seat. I don't remember but that doesn't mean it wasn't. It was obviously a sensible idea to have a FA who happens to be a commercial pilot in there to handle radio calls and checklists. It would have relieved some of the workload on the Captain. In some airlines FAs are trained to help if neccessary by reading checklists to cover this very eventuality.

diverdriver

Everytime I sit in a plane, I wish this'd happen. Part of me obviously wouldn't want that situation, but part of me says hell yes!

It would never happen unless both pilots were put out of action and that hasn't happened ever. The nearest was the Helios incident when the steward was a CPL. But he could do nothing as it was too late when he got to the flight deck.

You better hope it would never happen because it's quite likely you would die with everyone else when you ran off the end of the runway or dived into the ground short of the runway or ran out of fuel trying to figure out how to get it down safely. I would probably kill everyone too. :eek:

When the pilot asked to check for pilots. I suspect he was looking for Air Canada pilots or airline pilots. A PPL would not do.

Owen

diverdriver wrote: »

In some airlines FAs are trained to help if neccessary by reading checklists to cover this very eventuality.

diverdriver wrote: »

When the pilot asked to check for pilots. I suspect he was looking for Air Canada pilots or airline pilots. A PPL would not do.

If all the person is doing is relieving the workload on the Captain, why wouldn't a PPL do? Okay, it's not the ideal scenario, but surely a PPL is better than having the Captain sitting there on his own. Altimeters, gear checks, airspeed, flap deployment, and radio calls can all be checked and carried out even by someone with Flight Sim experience. That person would probably loose a stone in sweat, but I can't see how it would be an insurmountable task.

FlutterinBantam

Any knowledge or experience is better than none.

diverdriver

Altimeters, gear checks, airspeed, flap deployment, and radio calls can all be checked and carried out even by someone with Flight Sim experience.

I doubt it and you proved it yourself:

That person would probably lose a stone in sweat, but I can't see how it would be an insurmountable task

Last thing you need in the right seat is someone like that. You can't be sure of their actions.

As for flight sim experience, if you mean Microsoft, oh please no. Worst possible scenario. I know it's the wet fantasy of many an enthusiastic simmer. But there is simply no comparsion with playing a game and pretending to be a pilot and actually sitting there on the flightdeck with the real thing in front of you. Even an experienced multi rated pilot with MCC experience would be s********g themselves. Which is usually the reaction when they are about to start a type rating on a jet.

It's relatively common for potential pilots to crash the sim, real sims, if you see what I mean, during airline assessments and these guys are fully qualified pilots, given easy tasks simply to check their flying abilites.

If it ever happens, the aircraft would probably crash despite the best efforts of the 'pilot'.

FlutterinBantam

With all due respect Driver that is a bit off the mark.

Any little bit of knowledge in a situation like that would surely be better that none at all.

Owen

Yes Driver, we all know a flight sim enthusiast couldn't actually fly the plane. But that's not what's required! Its a second person to do the chatter, and double check instruments. I'm with flutteringbantam on this one.

APM

I don't know guys,
having a untrained acting co-pilot could be even worse for flight safety, especially as the scenario of an incapacitated pilot is covered in training and recurrent training (I'm 99% sure). Where as having a PPL covering "some" duties wouldn't be so widely trained for. It could really complicate the issue especially not knowing the PPL's ability and limitations. Same for flight simulator enthusiasts. Their lack of knowledge in most areas could cause more distractions than being a help.

I think the best thing in this situation aside from having a trained ATPL who is type rated on any commerical a/c would be to obviously secure the first officer well away from the cockpit and for the remaining pilot to fly by standard procedures methodically.

Just my 2 cents.

Run_to_da_hills

Would someone with 787 sim experience be of any assistance?

wittymoniker

cabin crew are trained to read checklists etc. so it's unlikely pax would ever be called on to lend a hand.

Run_to_da_hills

wittymoniker wrote: »

cabin crew are trained to read checklists etc. so it's unlikely pax would ever be called on to lend a hand.

I could imagine the panic. "This is the captain speaking, is there anyone among you with Boeing 767 flight control expperience, I not too sure how to fly this thing on my own" :eek:

pclancy

I think the whole cabin crew thing is blown out of proportion, the captain was more then capable of landing the aircraft alone but given the aircraft wasnt in any serious threat, an extra set of hands to ease his workload seems logical. Perhaps asking for any flight crew over the tannoy wasnt the best as regards scaring passengers but no harm done.

pclancy

Sorry on reading the actual incident report and back over those two indo articles there isnt any mention of an announcement to the passengers, just the crew looking through the passenger list for any pilots. Seems like it was all perfectly handled. Hope the guy made a full recovery...

Incident report is here if anyone wants a gander

barnicles

Search on Wiki for these two flights
United Airlines Flight 232
Helios Airways Flight 522

Laphroaig52

pclancy wrote: »

Sorry on reading the actual incident report and back over those two indo articles there isnt any mention of an announcement to the passengers, just the crew looking through the passenger list for any pilots. Seems like it was all perfectly handled. Hope the guy made a full recovery...

Incident report is here if anyone wants a gander

You're right, he didn't.

Unfortunately, I think the Irish Times report would have led the reader to believe that he did:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1120/1227136328391.html

I heard it being reported much the same on RTE's 5-7 live on Friday.
That didn't suprise me too much but I would have expected more from the Irish Times.