Kicked off of the 56A!

Unregistered.

meanmachine3 wrote: »

O.P. can i ask if you are male or female this is a very valid question and were the two buses the same number e.g. two 56A's?

Don't see how, how but I am in intrigued! Male. (Cleanly shaven too, while you're asking).;

AFAIK the first one was 77 or 77A. Essentially the same bus route for me. The only difference between the two would be if one were traveling beyond Walkinstown,(where the fare is obvioulsy more than 1.50!) Maybe the bus driver spotted this, however, I feel that i am entitled to get on either of those buses if choose to do so!

meanmachine3

the reason i'm asking is there is a clear rule for bus drivers when asking someone to leave the bus and it's this. no women and no kids are to be put off. the route i work there are normally two or three buses that come together and if one of these is at a stop loading and i'm letting passengers off i will in most cases not let anyone get on and will instead overtake and load at the next stop.

Unregistered.

meanmachine3 wrote: »

two or three buses that come together and if one of these is at a stop loading and i'm letting passengers off i will in most cases not let anyone get on and will instead overtake and load at the next stop.

But surely you cant do this when they are different bus numbers??

paulm17781

meanmachine3 wrote: »

the reason i'm asking is there is a clear rule for bus drivers when asking someone to leave the bus and it's this. no women and no kids are to be put off.

I've seen a load of women being thrown off buses. If that's a rule most drivers are happy enough to break it. What's a kid? When I was 14 (some of us would have been 12) about 10 of us were thrown of a bus, that would be women and kids.

OP, why did you decide you didn't have to get off the bus when the driver asked you too? This is what caused the problem me thinks.

Unregistered.

paulm17781 wrote: »

OP, why did you decide you didn't have to get off the bus when the driver asked you too? This is what caused the problem me thinks.

Why did he decide not to accept payment of a new fare? Thus forcing me to walk out in the rain!

shenanigans1982

Unregistered. wrote: »

But surely you cant do this when they are different bus numbers??

Yes as long as they run pretty much the same route...I have often seen the 27/27 b doing it.

OP all routes seem to have one of these drivers and I think you were just unfortunate to come across him. However I would make sure that you follow up with a complaint.

I guarantee the driver who wants the exact fare for the journey is not as quick to give people back their change ticket after they have paid too much.

meanmachine3

Unregistered. wrote: »

But surely you cant do this when they are different bus numbers??

if there is no one waiting to get on yes we can overtake but if they are two different numbers and there are passengers wanting to board then no unless the second bus is full but in your case it seems the bus you wanted was empty.
paulm i'm sure there are exceptional cases where kids are thrown off the most common being vandalism from destroying seats to writing grafitti

paulm17781

Unregistered. wrote: »

Why did he decide not to accept payment of a new fare? Thus forcing me to walk out in the rain!

That wasn't the question and if you dealt with the driver like that I can see why he wouldn't.

You were asked to get off the bus, you refused. I don't blame you for not wanting to get off but you had been asked to get off. It's his decision not yours. You hadn't paid enough and from the point you were asked to leave, you were breaking the law.

No matter what you wanted to do, ie not walk in the rain, you were in the wrong. Again, why did you think you didn't have to get off the bus when you were asked?

paulm17781

meanmachine3 wrote: »

paulm i'm sure there are exceptional cases where kids are thrown off the most common being vandalism from destroying seats to writing grafitti

It's not really a rule then is it? I'm not trying to argue, I'm just curious. FWIW I don't think we'd done anything wrong other than we were loud, like most groups of teens, and were all thrown off.

SteM

Unregistered. wrote: »

But surely you cant do this when they are different bus numbers??

77s 77a and 50s do it all the time between Walkinstown and Ringsend as it's the same route. Sure why not if it helps speed everyone's journey up? Some people are just desperate for a double seat I guess.

Unregistered.

paulm17781 wrote: »

Again, why did you think you didn't have to get off the bus when you were asked?

Because I hadn't realized the mistake. - i had done nothing wrong or anything. Nor did I think it was acceptable to demean the people the way he did, telling everyone on the bus that i had to get off

Unregistered.

SteM wrote: »

77s 77a and 50s do it all the time between Walkinstown and Ringsend as it's the same route. Sure why not if it helps speed everyone's journey up? Some people are just desperate for a double seat I guess.

The point is that the drivers do not know where the passengers are going until the get on! some people can only get 56A or can only get 77A because they are going beyond walkinstown! Tell me how it is fair on them?

paulm17781

Unregistered. wrote: »

Because I hadn't realized the mistake. - i had done nothing wrong or anything. Nor did I think it was acceptable to demean the people the way he did, telling everyone on the bus that i had to get off

There you go then. He asked you to leave you didn't want to. I dislike a lot of bus drivers based on experiences but I agree with the driver on this. It doesn't sound like he handled it particularly well but the fact is that you were in the wrong, intentional or not and when you were called on it, rather than doing the right thing and getting off the bus, you chose to stay on and continue being in the wrong. Your fault, not the drivers.

Unregistered.

paulm17781 wrote: »

you chose to stay on and continue being in the wrong. Your fault, not the drivers.

I chose to stay on and pay the full fare, and it was at that point when his attitude really prompted me to post this here!
How dare he (and the whole lower deck of the bus heard this) say he did not care about holding up passengers because he was on €28 per hour!

Nobody else was getting paid to be on that bus! :mad:

dereko1969

Unregistered. wrote: »

Because I hadn't realized the mistake. - i had done nothing wrong or anything. Nor did I think it was acceptable to demean the people the way he did, telling everyone on the bus that i had to get off

you hadn't paid the correct fare so that is definitely something you did wrong. you then tried to brazen it out and the driver called you on it, that's why he wouldn't allow others to pay on your behalf because you tried to make a show of him in front of the other passengers. he reacted badly but can i ask how he should have handled it? stopped the bus, delaying everyone else, got out come upstairs and whispered to you, i'm sorry old chap but your fare only covers you to here could you please alight from the bus and be on your way?
you delayed the service through doing something wrong ie not paying the correct fare and then tried to get the whole bus on the drivers back by refusing to get off and trying to continue illegally on the bus, all your fault.

Mr. Presentable

Unregistered. wrote: »

My ticket was valid up the stop that we were at. So why wouldn't he accept the fare for another journey?

I guess the fare from where you are to where you want to be was more than 20c.

The driver was being unreasonable, no question, but I wonder why particularly he remembered you and what you paid. I suspect there may be details of the story omitted.

dereko1969

Unregistered. wrote: »

I chose to stay on and pay the full fare, and it was at that point when his attitude really prompted me to post this here!
How dare he (and the whole lower deck of the bus heard this) say he did not care about holding up passengers because he was on €28 per hour!

Nobody else was getting paid to be on that bus! :mad:

you've changed your story now, you originally said you didn't have any more money and others were offering to pay the excess - keep your lies consistent

SteM

Unregistered. wrote: »

The point is that the drivers do not know where the passengers are going until the get on! some people can only get 56A or can only get 77A because they are going beyond walkinstown! Tell me how it is fair on them?

I said between Walkinstown and Ringsend. Anyone getting on after Walkinstown will be going towards town where the 77, 77a and 50 route are all the same.

I never mentioned going the other direction.

sweetie

If you got on the bus one stop earlier than usual surely you were entitled to get off one stop before your usual stop rather than 3? Or have you been evading all along ? There are two bus stops near to me, one cost 1 euro to parliament st, the other is 1.50 to o connel st (1 euro will only get you past phibsboro.) I tend to use whichever comes first but it's annoying. I guess the stages are at different points as the journeys are much the same length.

Unregistered. wrote: »

Hi all,
Apologies in advance for rambling but I need to get this off my chest!

I am a student, in Trinity College and every day I get the bus from Crumlin to Dame Street, costs €1.50 each way. 5 buses go down that route. (50, 55A, 77, 77A, 150)

Today however, I was in a lab down the east end until 5 p.m. and decided to walk down Pearse street. Thought I could catch a bus there before the crowds packed on. Hopped on a 56A, paid my €1.50 and sat upstairs...

The bus gets to Dolphins Barn, 3 stops away from mine. Then the bus driver starts calling "Dolphin's Barn, Dolphin's Barn!" before announcing via intercom that I had to get off because my ticket said dolphin's barn! I was shocked! He came upstairs, pointed me out, told me to check me ticket and said he will not move until I get off! I had not realized that the fare should have been 1.70, and besides that I only had the 1.50.
I told him this is not my stop and he said "fine, we'll wait for the guards". I refused to get out and walk for 10-15 minutes in the rain!
So I ended up confronting him downstairs, ask him why he is being like this, to which he replied "I didn't like your attitude" I offered to pay the extra 20 cent (which I didn't have), and he refused. Other passengers came down and asked how much the fare was and he refused.
He stayed in his cab, and started reading the Herald. I gave out to him for forcing me to walk in the rain and holding everyone up.

"I don't care, I get paid €28 per hour!"

He was really brash, and smart-alecky about it. He wouldn't give me his name, but shouted back - a well rehearsed - procedure for making a complaint.

Against all my principals, I got off the bus for 2 reasons.
1) The Gardai have far more important things to do than respond to the call out of this incident.
2) It would be unfair on the other passengers, as he made it clear he didn't care.

As he pulled off he looked out and me grinning and waved.

I took down the bus registration and immediately phone Dublin Bus, which was ringing through to the complaints line for 15 minutes before I hung up!


I accept that the fare from from Pearse street to my stop is €1.70.
What I do not accept is that if there are junkies shooting up, people drinking or smoking on the bus, often nothing is done about it! His behavior was ridiculous and waaay out of line In my opinion!! Surely it is a bus inspectors decision to decide to kick somebody off the bus?

To quote a passenger, "He's bent on power, a little Hitler!"

paulm17781

Unregistered. wrote: »

I chose to stay on and pay the full fare, and it was at that point when his attitude really prompted me to post this here!
How dare he (and the whole lower deck of the bus heard this) say he did not care about holding up passengers because he was on €28 per hour!

Nobody else was getting paid to be on that bus! :mad:

You chose to pay the full fare with money you didn't even have. How was that going to work? When I read your post initially I really felt for you, I've since realised it was all your own fault.

True, no one else was being paid to be on the bus and you were holding everyone up.

I also suspect there is something we're not being told here, the driver remembered you for a reason. Either way, it doesn't matter. Perhaps next time you'll be more considerate of others around you on the bus rather than delaying everyone else through a problem entirely of your own making.

interested

MagicMarker wrote: »

Me arse tbh.

The driver was completely out of line.

OP, you REALLY need to report this, and not back down until you get a satisfactory answer!

The driver is directly linked to the ticket - if you've still got it - it would help when making the complaint.

Unregistered.

dereko1969 wrote: »

behalf because you tried to make a show of him in front of the other passengers.

Did I? No.

I would have actually preferred if he had came up an tipped me on the shoulder, then allowing me to realize i had made the mistake! Why couldn't he just do that! When he first started calling on the intercom, i didn't even know he was talking to me, he had to come all the way upstairs.finger me out and he was really brash about it.
IMO, he had escalated the situation, in his head, before i was even aware of it! Now how am i supposed to react to the bombardment that was to follow? Just get off without question, without even thinking if he was right or not, or without being able to resolve the situation?

MagicMarker

dereko1969 wrote: »

you've changed your story now, you originally said you didn't have any more money and others were offering to pay the excess - keep your lies consistent

He didn't change anything, in the OP he said he offered to pay the rest of the fair, whether he had the money or not makes no difference.

dub_commuter

Unregistered. wrote: »

I am really finicky about buses, e.g, if two buses come, i get on the one with least amount of people, or if an old one and a new one come together, I have to get on the new one. etc..*

I hate this kind of passenger. I get on a bus every day around 7am and home around 6.30pm. There are a few variations of this route, which start from different places, but after 1/4 of the route they all join together and run the same way into Town. And normally this is operated with vehicles from 1997-1999 that are not low floor operated. We get say 65% loading, maybe give or take 10% on some days.

Now, in the mornings, one day we got a brand new bus and got overtook by another bus on exactly the same route and another one which is a variation which the same people I see always get on. Both these went past the bus stop, nobody signaled. Then when we were about to pass the same passengers they all put their hands out, dozens of them, and all crammed onto the bus so it was totally full half way into the journey. They then moan that it's too cramped? Why could they not get the buses before? I call this "New Bus Syndrome" and it's spreading. The bus is only full like this, when it's a new bus.

Now that doesn't really effect anyone apart from the people who let the bus go through. It doesn't effect me. However it does effect me when the reverse happens in the evening. These passengers can get any one of five variations to their stop as they don't need stops after the bus runs parallel. The other variations are much more frequent than my one. My route gets a new bus. Normally no trouble getting a seat. The people with "New Bus Syndrome" see it about to leave. They don't get their normal bus as they see the variation is brand new. Cue dozens of people getting on the bus.

Many questions about "Where does this bus go, does it go the same way?" and "How much is the fare" to which the driver spends ages going through it with loads of people purely because they only got the bus because it was new. You now have 120+ people attempting to get on this bus most of which that could have got the one before. There is a bus for them every 10 minutes. Cue people who would have to wait 50 minutes for the next bus to their destination, not being able to get on this bus as it's full. This bus then is almost empty when it reaches the point where it does not run in parallel to all other buses. Leaving people who NEEDED to get this bus stranded all because of the other people who had "New Bus Syndrome" caused the congestion.

Unregistered.

dereko1969 wrote: »

you've changed your story now, you originally said you didn't have any more money and others were offering to pay the excess - keep your lies consistent

that's what i meant! I chose to stay on and pay full fare. or have the fare paid on my behalf, for a better choice of words

meanmachine3

Unregistered. wrote: »

AFAIK the first one was 77 or 77A. Essentially the same bus route for me. The only difference between the two would be if one were traveling beyond Walkinstown,(where the fare is obvioulsy more than 1.50!) Maybe the bus driver spotted this, however, I feel that i am entitled to get on either of those buses if choose to do so!

i'd say this is exactly what happened, i work one of the busiest areas in dublin where there are about 3-4 main routes heading out the main road and if someone steps out from behind another bus to get on mine and puts in €1.50 and i know quite well that the €1.50 fare covers the exact journey as the bus in front then i'd very iffy about your true destination myself. only thing is my approach would be very different. i'd say it to you that €1.50 only gets you here, now heres where the problem arises. if you said to me i didn't know. i'd give you the benefit of the doubt. i've had passengers coming up after genuinely overstaying their fare by a few stops and trying to put the extra 20 cents in. only for me to tell them to f. off and dont worry about it. basically if someone is genuine they'll be treated with courtesy but if they try to pull the wool over my eyes then it's a different story altogether and i think thats whats happened here.i'd say the driver thought you were deliberately pulling the wool over his eyes. some drivers do take it personally when this happens

dub_commuter

meanmachine3 wrote: »

i'd say this is exactly what happened, i work one of the busiest areas in dublin where there are about 3-4 main routes heading out the main road and if someone steps out from behind another bus to get on mine and puts in €1.50 and i know quite well that the €1.50 fare covers the exact journey.

Unless you are driving a newer bus (See my post on other page) there are some people who deliberately cause problems and congestions and will do anything to get a newer bus, even if it means letting those in front go that are exactly on the same route.

And there are also some people who are fixated with "City Centre" and will see one bus with a scroll saying the exact street and will ignore it, and another going the exact same place but with the magical words "City Centre" and hold their hands out for it. It really annoys me.

dereko1969

Unregistered. wrote: »

that's what i meant! I chose to stay on and pay full fare. or have the fare paid on my behalf, for a better choice of words

well which was it? either you did have the extra money or you were going to beg for it off others which, as has already been pointed out, is illegal.

you still refused a request to leave a bus when asked by the driver, again this is against the rules even where the driver has not been as polite as he should have been.

to be honest i think you knew you weren't paying the correct fare, that you've done it before and that you finally got caught out on it.

shenanigans1982

dub_commuter wrote: »

Unless you are driving a newer bus (See my post on other page) there are some people who deliberately cause problems and congestions and will do anything to get a newer bus, even if it means letting those in front go that are exactly on the same route.

And there are also some people who are fixated with "City Centre" and will see one bus with a scroll saying the exact street and will ignore it, and another going the exact same place but with the magical words "City Centre" and hold their hands out for it. It really annoys me.

Surely this has to be a joke?

Nobody uses Dublin bus for the wonderful experience, You're just happy when a bus actually shows up that you get on it and don't ask any questions or wait and see if there is a newer one coming around the corner.

Unregistered.

dereko1969 wrote: »

well which was it? either you did have the extra money or you were going to beg for it off others which, as has already been pointed out, is illegal.

Read my post!! Other passengers offered!

Specifically: One woman asked " Here, how much do you need"
Another said, "Do you want some change", before a man came down with his wallet in his hand and asked the diver "how much is his fare?".

Now none of these people, or the bus driver knew i did not have more money! I guess they all assumed i either had not paid any fare or that the reason i did not pay full fare was because i could not!

corktina

Have you complained to DB? seems to me that would make a lot more sense than complaining on here....although you probably know you'll get more sympathy here than there..

My view? oh well, you paid to a certain point and were asked to get off there :whatever the circumstances you should have got off rather than putting up the Drivers back by arguing the toss. No wonder he wouldnt take the extra money from someone else. Put it down to experiance and move on.

Stark

AugustusMaximus wrote:

What right did the bus driver have to refuse the 1.70 being offered from other passengers on the OP's behalf. It is a public service.

So what I'm getting from this thread is that it's okay to dodge fares so long as you offer to pay the fare if you're caught?

Kaiser2000 wrote:

The driver in question was way out of line and (since we're talking about adhering to the letter of the law here) shouldn't have left his cab in the first place if I'm right? As for the whinging from a few posters here about the OP "evading" the fare.. he paid the fare, just apparently not enough but with DB's ridiculously overcomplicated fare structure how is anyone supposed to know what the fare is - he already mentioned it wasn't his normal journey.

The driver gave him a chance to get off the bus rather than hit him with a fine. I'd say that was perfectly fair. The OP decided to be an asswipe and cause trouble for the other passengers despite knowing full well that he had underpaid. Glad to see you're still carrying that chip on your shoulder for DB.

dub_commuter

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Surely this has to be a joke?

Nobody uses Dublin bus for the wonderful experience, You're just happy when a bus actually shows up that you get on it and don't ask any questions or wait and see if there is a newer one coming around the corner.

I wish I was joking, but there are actually people like this. It doesn't happen everywhere. But it does happen in my area. Our buses always turn up though as we are lucky to have the service provided by decent drivers and policed correctly by inspectors, other areas of the city have staff with dreadful altitudes.

antoinolachtnai

Hamndegger wrote: »

The stage point is at Dolphins Barn cross roads so if his ticket shows it as the last point, then he'd be over carried at any point beyond it.

You are correct about that. The rule is at http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares_and_tickets/fares.asp . (This is assuming the passenger got on at Pearse St and not College St. The stop on Pearse Street is a good bit down from TCD if I remember correctly, so I am a bit surprised that he would have walked that far.)

I have looked at the bye-laws of Dublin Bus (http://www.dublinbus.ie/home/bye_laws.asp) and even if the OP was at the end of his fare, I cannot see that the driver was entitled to ask him to leave the bus.

If the OP had travelled beyond the distance he was entitled to travel on the 1.50 ticket (which everyone agrees he had not) the driver would be entitled to collect the standard fare. If the passenger could not pay the standard fare, and the driver had some reason to suspect that he was planning to avoid paying the standard fare within 21 days, then he could ask the passenger to leave the bus.

The driver was perfectly entitled to query the passenger's behaviour, and to inform him of the implications of travelling further. However, it would appear he should have done this by asking the passenger for his ultimate destination and then informing him of the further fare payable.

I cannot see how the driver is lawfully entitled to refuse the offer to pay the onward fare by a well behaved passenger.

It is hard not to get the impression that the driver failed to be friendly and helpful to the passenger (as he is obliged to be).

Of course, I was not on the bus, and it is always hard to put together what actually happened.

Assuming that the passenger was helpful and well-behaved, and the Garda had come and removed him from the vehicle, they would have done so unlawfully, and it would have been a very serious matter indeed.

Again strictly speaking, the driver should never have allowed the passenger to board the bus, because according to the account the passenger failed to state his destination on boarding the bus. By a strict interpretation, any person paying who does not state their destination is in breach of the bye laws and should not be allowed on board. However, I don't think the driver can really throw someone off five miles down the road because of a breach on boarding.

Could it be that there is a bit of a drive in DB to increase revenues at the moment?

PS: I hope the passenger will not try to 'push' the driver into breaking the rules which the driver obviously does not have a good knowledge of. That would be very bad form.

meanmachine3

very good antoinolachtnai. if the o.p. had explained to the driver about not knowing the proper fare and not give out to him i suspect the outcome would've been very much different .the text book that you gave antoinolachtnai is basically how i work but i also use alot of discretion. but in saying that i am paid to get passengers home as safely and as quick as possible there is nothing to say i have to smile or be polite. we can all go down the text book route and end up working like zombies. like the one about passengers not engaging in conversation with the driver. if someone is polite i'm polite back but if someone is abusive well then it's a different kettle of fish.while some of us might be on €28 we're still not paid to take any form of abuse. and by the o.p. confronting the driver it only made matters worse and therefore the driver dug his heels in even more and after that there was only going to be one clear out come and thats the o.p. leaving the bus.

gazzer

Stark wrote: »

So what I'm getting from this thread is that it's okay to dodge fares so long as you offer to pay the fare if you're caught?



The driver gave him a chance to get off the bus rather than hit him with a fine. I'd say that was perfectly fair. The OP decided to be an asswipe and cause trouble for the other passengers despite knowing full well that he had underpaid. Glad to see you're still carrying that chip on your shoulder for DB.

Ah come on. I think it is the driver with the massive chip on his shoulder. The driver could have handled this situation a hell of a lot better. The driver was the one who mentioned how much money he earns an hour in full earshot of all the passengers. Why did he do that? Also to make faces at the OP when he drove off shows the guy has the majority of a moron.

Cant believe how much grieve the OP is getting over this. Of course he was in the wrong for not paying the full amount but imo it was an honest mistake. He didnt fare evade as he was told to get off at the final stop relative to his fare. The driver should have let him pay the extra money. If the OP had travelled past the last stop then maybe the story is different but he didnt fare evade.

So lets say I was on a bus and had paid to get off at a certain stop. Whilst on the bus I get a call from my friend wanting to meet me in town. When the bus got to the stop I had paid up to I decided that I wanted to go into town so went to the driver and asked to pay whatever amount was necessary to the new destination. Does that mean the driver can refuse me? Because technically that is what happened here. The OP was still at a stop that was included in his original fare.

godtabh

tbh wrote: »

what was the bus drivers motivation for kicking the op off the bus? Was he trying to prevent a situation where DB missed out on money it was entitled to? If so, the OP paying the new fare would have satisfied that. So we can only assume that the bus driver was "punishing" the OP for trying to evade the fare - forgetting the point for a moment that the OP should be considered innocent of deliberately trying to evade the fare until proved otherwise - the punishment was far in excess of what could be reasonably expected in a situation like this. So, in my eyes, it's really quite simple, the driver was an asshole.

I don’t know what his motivation was for kicking the OP off the bus but it does act a deterrent. I doubt the OP will make the same mistake again!

I don’t think the punishment was in excess of the crime. He didn’t pay the far for his journey so it seems fitting to me.

As I've said many times before it’s the OP responsibility to check he has the correct fare for his journey. It’s not the drivers. It’s not mine. It’s not yours. It’s his. If he can’t even do a simple thing like get the correct fare for his journey then the default is guilty. Its not rocket science.

As for not allowing him to pay the additional fare. I don’t know. If I was the bus driver I would have made him get off the bus and if he wasn’t to get back on he'd pay what ever the minimum fare was. But that’s just me

The bus driver is a bit of a dick the way he went about his job but not for doing his job (but that appears to be debatable if it was part of his job)

As for only having €1.50 that just stinks of knowing what you were doing but that’s just because I’m suspicious of students

dfx-

Firstly, I am surprised if there was more than 5 people on a 56A

I don't see why the driver could refuse an offer from other people on the bus to pay the onward fare regardless and still insist the OP leaving. Unless the lovely unions have decided that DB drivers are to pick who you can pay a fare for based on their mood and attitude. There really was no need for it to escalate.

However on a 56A before, I've seen a driver kick off three kids for the sake of another 5p at the terminus which was again offered by others on board. DB kept the £1 though.

My own gripe with DB at the minute is AX523 (for the DB nerds) eating my monthly ticket one week in, and give my details to get it back. Surprise surprise it magically appears despite the driver's refusal to believe it because no error message came up. 2 weeks later.

Dublin Bus' machine has cost me €44 in replacements and an arbitrary €36 from two weeks of my ticket not used. :mad:

*looks at the Luas timetable enthusiastically*

Ham'nd'egger

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are correct about that. The rule is at http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares_and_tickets/fares.asp . (This is assuming the passenger got on at Pearse St and not College St. The stop on Pearse Street is a good bit down from TCD if I remember correctly, so I am a bit surprised that he would have walked that far.)

I have looked at the bye-laws of Dublin Bus (http://www.dublinbus.ie/home/bye_laws.asp) and even if the OP was at the end of his fare, I cannot see that the driver was entitled to ask him to leave the bus.....

PS: I hope the passenger will not try to 'push' the driver into breaking the rules which the driver obviously does not have a good knowledge of. That would be very bad form.

Trinity's lands go as far as Pearse Street; they have the two sites at the end of Westland Row and beside Pearse DART station so it's fair to assume that OP got on the bus here as he said.

Back to the debate at hand....

The driver is an "authorized person" for Dublin Bus and him knowing that the Px had a ticket that didn't entitle him to travel any further legally. The very last bye law, 60, says...

"Any person who is reasonably suspected by an authorised person of contravening or of attempting to contravene these Bye-Laws may be removed from the vehicle by an authorised person or a member of the Garda Síochána acting on the request of such authorised person.

(b) In the exercise of the power conferred on him under paragraph (a) of this Bye-Law an authorised person or member of the Garda Síochána may use such reasonable force as is necessary."

While it does state earlier that a passenger is liable for a standard fare in the bye laws, the above would render the driver legally able to remove OP from the bus (And forcibly at that). Mind you, it doesn't cover anything about unpleasantness but that may be for another thread

pokerface_me

Write a complaint to Dublin Bus recorded delivery, get a good solicitor, tell them you feared for your safety as the bus driver was aggresive, you offered to pay the fare when you discovered you hadn't paid the right fare, you feel your character is tarnished now ( slander ), should put this jumped up little prick in his place, probably on the dole queue.

Mammy why isn't Daddy in work today, because your father thinks Dublin Bus could go out of buisness over 20c and decided he would play the hero to save the company.

Bus drivers do what your suppose to and drive the fecking bus. Leave the losses up to your company to sort out i.e more inspectors. Next time you get out of your seat to remove somebody might be your last, some nasty people out there that don't give a fiddlers about you or yours.

Personally i wouldn't of left the bus i would have waited for the old bill to arrive, would have been a laugh.

Ham'nd'egger

pokerface_me wrote: »

Write a complaint to Dublin Bus recorded delivery, get a good solicitor, tell them you feared for your safety as the bus driver was aggresive, you offered to pay the fare when you discovered you hadn't paid the right fare, you feel your character is tarnished now ( slander ), should put this jumped up little prick in his place, probably on the dole queue.

Mammy why isn't Daddy in work today, because your father thinks Dublin Bus could go out of buisness over 20c and decided he would play the hero to save the company.

Bus drivers do what your suppose to and drive the fecking bus. Leave the losses up to your company to sort out i.e more inspectors. Next time you get out of your seat to remove somebody might be your last, some nasty people out there that don't give a fiddlers about you or yours.

Personally i wouldn't of left the bus i would have waited for the old bill to arrive, would have been a laugh.

How many 20 cent coins would it cost for a solicitor to take on this case? Regardless of the other issues (Which may have merit), there isn't any slander case to answer here as OP knows that he underpaid.

antoinolachtnai

meanmachine3 wrote: »

the text book that you gave antoinolachtnai is basically how i work but i also use alot of discretion. but in saying that i am paid to get passengers home as safely and as quick as possible there is nothing to say i have to smile or be polite.

Page 6 of the Customer Charter (http://www.dublinbus.ie/home/Customer%20Charter%20English.pdf) contains a commitment that Dublin Bus staff will be polite and helpful. I don't know if there was any workplace agreement about this.

antoinolachtnai

In fairness, a 20 cent loss does amount to quite a lot if it is done by a lot of people.

pokerface_me

When i get on a bus, and make a genuine mistake and not pay the proper fare, i do not expect to be removed from the bus or be threatend with the Gardai, he offered to pay the fare, the bus driver had no reasonable excuse to refuse the 20c ( i think you could have the drivers job here ). He made a show of the guy in front of a load of people and made him get off the bus and walk in the rain, if it was a dog animal rights would be up in arms over it.

The driver went to far and was aggresive in his manner, i don't want this driver who is a ticking time bomb driving my daughter home from school, and as for his 28euros an hour, starting pay is 590a week and after 10 years it rises gradually to about 750.

And yes i know 1 or 2 solicitors who deal with these type of things and this is right up there street. You have to remember he offered to pay and the driver refused..........i feel discrimanation coming on!!!!!

pokerface_me

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

In fairness, a 20 cent loss does amount to quite a lot if it is done by a lot of people.

Just made my day man funniest thing i've seen in a while, what about all the change thats not collected in o connell street. I'm sure things balance themselves out.

BluntGuy

Right, I rarely get annoyed on these forums, but I've been disgusted reading through this thread. Half the posts are PC nonsense or over-sympathetic drivel. Let's just get this straight:

The OP was wrong to refuse to alight the bus when the driver asked him and the bus driver was perfectly correct to insist the full-fare be paid.

End of story. No arguing there.

But... the bus driver had no right, and absolutely no right to refuse the rest of the fare be paid. Provided of course, that the OP did not know that the fare was an extra 20 cent, and didn't intentionally try to dodge the full fare, evident from this line:

I had not realized that the fare should have been 1.70, and besides that I only had the 1.50.

Any reasonable driver would have accepted the fare, from either the passenger himself, or other passengers.

Whether or not the driver would have dealt with anti-social behaviour, drinking, smoking etc has nothing to do with this case. Whether you think the driver is a... well... whatever, THAT has nothing to do with it.

The facts (assuming the OP is telling the truth and not exaggerating) are very clear and from this case it seems at various points both the driver and the OP were in the wrong.

So enough of this ridiculous "the driver was perfectly correct in what he did". No he wasn't. Would you consider his behaviour to be acceptable conduct? I would be worried for you if you did...

On the other hand, I am not ignoring the fact that the OP's conduct was not acceptable either. He had no right to refuse to alight the vehicle when the incorrect fare had been highlighted. Any repudiation of the fare in this case was completely incorrect.

Can't believe how much grieve the OP is getting over this.

It doesn't surprise me. We're all trying to take the moral high-ground and instead sounding as bad as the bus driver himself. What dissappoints me the most is the response of the moderators, I would've thought they would've had something a lot more meaningful to say.

Some proper reasoning wouldn't go amiss here people. Enough of the "driver was completely right" and "driver was a dickhead"-style responses...

... and btw, I am assuming of course, that the OP is being truthful in what he is saying.

pokerface_me

But... the bus driver had no right, and absolutely no right to refuse the rest of the fare be paid. Provided of course, that the OP did not know that the fare was an extra 20 cent, and didn't intentionally try to dodge the full fare, evident from this line:

100% agree and the driver needs to be put in his place through the proper channel.

david

Had a similar situation last year on the 128 route. I get this bus twice a day so you often see familiar drivers...

One day as the bus was turning right to Kildare st. from Nassau I heard this bang. Turns out the rear left of the bus had swung out and hit the rear quarter panel of some lady's car (which was stationary on the correct side of the white line. Anyway yer man pulls up outside the Dáil and waits for a cycle Garda from Pearse St. Bus driver quickly informs the Garda that nobody saw the accident. I was last person out (sitting at the back) and duely told the Garda what had happened. The bus driver wasn't too happy about this and getting very aggressive with me so I said fúck it and walked to the bus stop.

Two weeks later I was driven past twice with my arm out (same driver) in pissing rain. Then when I got on at the first stop in third week after, he refused my entry as the card reader was broken and he couldn't be sure that my ticket was valid (12.20 in Rathmines with an exam at 1pm which I was late for, had to hail a taxi). At this point I had had enough and went to Dublin Bus with all the dates, offenses and bus reg plate numbers. The complaint line is a joke, I was told that they'd review the case on the friday (it was wednesday) at some meeting. That next week I was also refused entry because I hadn't got my student num written on my ticket. (Brand new ticket, not even validated, and I had my travelcard on me too).

So yeah, I was told I had an 'attitude problem', that I was a 'chancer', that I saw something that 'didn't happen' on Kildare st. and physically forced off the bus by the driver who left his cabin.

I promptly returned to Dublin Bus and gave **** to the supervisor. Got a call from the manager of Harristown Depot apologising profusely that Saturday evening. He said that the guy was out of line and abusing his power. His job is to drive the bus and take fares. Not to check tickets or heckle passengers. I got 6 months of bus/train/luas passes and a written apology from the driver (He got his pay suspended for a week and was transferred to another route in North Dublin.

In conclusion if you have a problem with Dublin Bus, complain. There are cameras everywhere on those new busses and comprehensive driver log's to track down drivers by the reg plate if they won't show you driver ID/ I am rarely impolite but this was a bit too far.

Ham'nd'egger

pokerface_me wrote: »

But... the bus driver had no right, and absolutely no right to refuse the rest of the fare be paid. Provided of course, that the OP did not know that the fare was an extra 20 cent, and didn't intentionally try to dodge the full fare, evident from this line:

The driver does have the right to remove him from the bus, refer to the Db bye laws above.

Meanmachine, Sickcert, Spareman or other DB drivers can clarify if a driver has the means to issue standard fares on board but I don't think that OP would have been too honest in forthcoming of his details for it if he wasn't forthcoming with his own 20 cent or forthcoming in alighting the bus as he was asked to.

Johnny Utah

From my experience, there are some real little cu.nts on a power buzz driving buses for Dublin Bus. I don't get the bus that often, but I have had some bad experiences.

Recently, I was sitting upstairs on the right hand side. The bus was travelling into Terenure from Templeogue Village in the bus lane. I was sitting on the right side upstairs, and I noticed a white VW Golf Gti travelling just in front of the bus, in the car lane. (I'm quite into cars, so I was looking at the VW Golf for a while as it travelled down Templeogue Road, past Terenure College on the left). This road has a bus lane and a car lane in the same direction towards Terenure, and also a car lane going in the opposite direction towards Templeogue. Before you get to the Terenure junction at Rathdown Motors, the bus lane and the car lane merge. As the white VW Golf was in front of the bus, it merged ahead of our bus. The bus then pulled in behind the white VW.

There was a bit of traffic jam (as there usually is on this particular road), so traffic was backed up a fair bit from the traffic lights. It would easily take at least 3/4 changes of traffic lights before the bus would reach the traffic light junction. Anyway, we're waiting in the traffic jam for a while, the bus is stopped behind the white VW Golf. Then, the Golf driver decides to do a 3-point-turn so that he can drive off in the opposite direction. (Anyone familiar with this road will know that cars often do a u-turn/3-point-turn when they realise how bad the traffic jam is). Anyway, the traffic is stopped, and the VW Golf pulls across the opposite lane in order to do a 3 point turn (ie. this is the first part of the 3 point turn). Well, as he started this manouevre, our bus driver decided to drive up into the space that the white VW Golf had been occupying. As I said before, traffic was stopped at this point, so there was no reason for the bus to move forward, other than to deliberately block the VW from reversing. This results in the VW being stuck horizontally across the other lane. The bus was so close that he had absolutely no room to move forwards or backwards. So, the VW driver (who is quite young- probably under 20) puts his hand on the horn for about ten seconds.

There is a footpath on the opposite side of the road, this is where the VW front bumper was facing. So, the VW them mounts the footpath in order to get a bit more room in front to move. Mounting the path wasn't too easy for the VW Golf as it had very expensive alloys, and the front bumper was quite low. It takes the VW driver about a minute or two, and about 8-10 attempts of moving forward/backwards in order to complete the "3-point-turn". Picture Austin Powers when he was trying to do a 3-point-turn in a corridor.....

So, eventually after a fair bit of effort, the VW Golf is now facing the right direction; the bus is facing towards the junction at Terenure, and the bus hasn't moved forward at all since the incident began because of the traffic jam. The VW driver, who has his window down, then reverses his car back to the bus driver's window, and shouts out a few expletives at the bus driver. The bus driver opens his window, says something (which I didn't hear) to the VW driver, and then laughs. Traffic starts to build up behind the VW Golf, so he drives off.








This incident, I think, shows how small-minded and petty some Dublin Bus drivers are. It was quite obvious that the VW driver was positioning his car in order to make a 3 point turn. The bus driver, for whatever reason, just decided to block the VW's space for reversing. Maybe the bus driver was jealous of the young guy's nice car. And as I said before, the bus wasn't going to make the lights, or make up any ground in the traffic jam- once the VW had left the queue, the bus would only progress one car space.

And before anyone says it; yes I know the 3 point turn by the VW may have been illegal (I'm not sure if it was illegal actually), but a little bit of courtesy from the bus driver would have avoided the situation. I thought about reporting the incident, but what's the point- Dublin Bus would probably wipe their ass with it. Joke of an organisation.