Kicked off of the 56A!

spareman

Ckal wrote: »

I've given up on the buses in Dublin. I know some of the drivers are nice, but I'm sick of getting my head bitten off when I ask what the fare is.

I just walk now...

Perfect example here of what I'm talking about,
I think we have established that op was in the wrong by not having a valid ticket for his journey, But he has given the opportunity for people like ckal here to vent his hatred for all things dublin bus by starting this thread.

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

Unregistered.

spareman wrote: »

But you still had no valid ticket to travel any further

Does not excuse his behaviour in my mind.

spareman wrote: »

Look if I walk into a shop pick up a Herald €1.20, hand over a euro and walk out of the shop, do you think the shop keeper's behaviour would be any less than the bus driver's?

I'm sure they would accept the 20cent(or indeed, anothoer euro) for it afterwards! [/quote]
O/T - but you're entitled to bargin in anyshop anywhere. Nobody* does. but you can.

spareman wrote: »

YOU DID NOT HAVE A VALID TICKET TO TRAVEL.
Therefore I believe you have no grounds to complain, you should not have been on the bus.

He would not accept the 20cent as part of an extension ticket, nor accpet another fare, so how should i not have been on the bus? Because he was being mean, impolite and discourtious?

*i know one guys that does, and has seen success through haggling.

Tayto2000

Unregistered. wrote: »

I'm sure they would accept the 20cent(or indeed, anothoer euro) for it afterwards!

No. Once you've been caught like that, it's shoplifting. The price for getting caught shoplifting is prosecution, you don't get away with paying for what you were trying to steal, unless you can convince the person that it was a genuine mistake. You didn't seem to be able to convince the driver that this was the case in the incident you described. As mentioned by others, might attitude have played a part?

It's the same with fare evasion, once you've been caught for fare evasion and told to leave the bus or slapped with the fixed fare penalty, you don't get off the hook by offering to pay at that point, it's too late.

shltter

Unregistered. wrote: »

Does not excuse his behaviour in my mind.

And what about your own behaviour (refusing to leave the bus, Arguing with the driver) Anyone who has ever seen someone caught shoplifting will recognise a common tactic of arguing and shouting hoping to embarrass the company representative to back down.

Unregistered. wrote: »

I'm sure they would accept the 20cent(or indeed, anothoer euro) for it afterwards!

O/T - but you're entitled to bargin in anyshop anywhere. Nobody* does. but you can.[/QUOTE]

Try it tomorrow and let us know how you get on

BTW you were not trying to bargain you had already decided to steal from Dublin Bus. Bargaining would be if you approached the driver and explained you only had €1.50

Unregistered. wrote: »

He would not accept the 20cent as part of an extension ticket, nor accpet another fare, so how should i not have been on the bus? Because he was being mean, impolite and discourtious?

You were caught evading your fare you failed to convince the driver that this was a genuine mistake he does not have to accept anything from you once he has requested you leave the bus.
You want it all your own way pay a lower fare and if you get caught stump up the extra in that case there is no risk and no disincentive to you continuing your to evade your fare.
This way you will perhaps think twice about dodging your fare in the future and it may act to discourage others who witnessed you make a show of your self from doing the same thing.

Unbelievable that you were caught stealing and your complaint is that the guy who caught you was not nice enough to you.
Shoplifters of the world unite.

Profiler

AlekSmart wrote: »

Profiler,good on ye !



It`s very simple really Home Farm Road Stage 20 to O Connell St Stage 25 = 5 Stages = €1.50.

No mystery....Thats why,as the signs in the chippers say,Please check your change before leaving.

Indeed it is quite simple... and yet some drivers keep getting it wrong

I pointed out once that Home Farm road to O'Connell Street was a €1.50 fare and was advised very rudely not to tell the driver how to do his job.

As the bus pretty much takes me from my front door to the front door of the office I decided that arguing toss with a driver on average once a month just is not worth the hassle... 50 cents compare to all that hassle... I say let Dublin Bus have the extra 50 cent a month ...or €6 per year...

Ckal

spareman wrote: »

Perfect example here of what I'm talking about,
I think we have established that op was in the wrong by not having a valid ticket for his journey, But he has given the opportunity for people like ckal here to vent his hatred for all things dublin bus by starting this thread.

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

Vent my hatred? You're the one having the hissy fit.

I said that I walk because I'm afraid of getting my head bitten off again by the drivers that are not so pleasant. I don't hate all Dublin Bus drivers. I just have a problem with some drivers who are impatient.

But I guess I can't even post that without somebody lunging at me. Back off.

HydeRoad

spareman wrote: »

Perfect example here of what I'm talking about,
I think we have established that op was in the wrong by not having a valid ticket for his journey, But he has given the opportunity for people like ckal here to vent his hatred for all things dublin bus by starting this thread.

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

Most of the people criticising the bus driver here, are tempering their argument by saying that most of the drivers are hard working and decent employees. I was one once myself.

The problem stems from the fact that there is a small, hardcore band of drivers who act objectionably towards every facet of customer service and professional image. The other problem is that Dublin Bus seem powerless as an organisation to visit any kind of discipline on those drivers.

I am all for union fought fair working conditions, but those decent working conditions should go hand in hand with a commitment to the employer and the customer, and it is a small band of drivers who are bringing down all the good efforts of the majority, resulting in blanket attitudes of apathy by too many fare paying customers.

Fare disputes like the OP's happen on a daily basis, sometimes through simple ignorance of an unwieldy and user unfriendly system, and sometimes deliberately so. If a driver cannot maintain professionalism faced with these daily occurences, then he should be employed elsewhere.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

That's at least the third mention of 'bus haters' in this thread. Who are these mysterious haters? Are they a shadowy bunch of people who meet in secret to plot the downfall of Dublin Bus, or are they perhaps just ordinary commuters who after years of suffering shoddy treatment by bus drivers can sympathise with a customer facing another instance of a driver behaving like a tool.

I could equally comment on the number of DB drivers taking the driver's side, it's natural since that's the side they're more familiar with. Perhaps you'd be OK with me referring to you as 'commuter haters'?

shltter wrote:

You were caught evading your fare you failed to convince the driver that this was a genuine mistake he does not have to accept anything from you once he has requested you leave the bus.
You want it all your own way pay a lower fare and if you get caught stump up the extra in that case there is no risk and no disincentive to you continuing your to evade your fare.
This way you will perhaps think twice about dodging your fare in the future and it may act to discourage others who witnessed you make a show of your self from doing the same thing.

Unbelievable that you were caught stealing and your complaint is that the guy who caught you was not nice enough to you.
Shoplifters of the world unite.

Where exactly is the fare evasion here anyway? The driver stopped at the 1.50 limit, which is where the OP had paid to. The OP was then asked to leave the bus, which he didn't. He offered to pay the difference or get a new ticket, which the driver refused.

If the driver had just announced Dolphin's Barn, then carried on and stopped at the next stop and caused this scene, then the OP would have travelled further than he had paid for. But as it was, I don't see any fare evasion.

By this logic, if I get on a bus thinking the fare is 1.50, travel to the 1.50 limit, and realise I want to go further, there's no point in me approaching the driver and asking to pay the difference or buy a new ticket, because I'm likely to be treated as a 'fare evader' and kicked off the bus.

Cully

I'm not a dublin bus hater, nor am I a troublemaker (or have ever caused trouble on a bus)....

I bought a bicycle a couple of years ago because of exactly trouble like the OPs... I never knew what far to pay because I take different routes and different amount of stages, so I always ask "how much to .....". The bus driver complains then when I spend an extra 10 seconds rummaging for change. How am I supposed to know how many stages to where I'm going if the timetable is ripped down? Quite often there is no information in the right places saying that 3 stages = €1, 5 stages = €1.30 or whatever it is now.

If I was confronted like the OP, I would just have walked off, because I'm too introverted to cause a scene... whether I'm right or wrong. This is quite a common Irish attitude and you might have seen the adverts recently asking people to complain if something is not right. This is a prime example, but I think the OP should have taken it up properly by contacting the complaints department.

I bought bicycle gear and expensive raingear, so now I have no problems. I take the luas any time I want to go home, and while it does have it's problems, I don't find it half as bad as the hassle I have with buses.

Gavin

I cycle because I like to cycle. When I get the bus, I don't know the fare. I tell the busman where I'm going, busman says X and I pay X. As I'm getting onto a bus to go somewhere, I know I will need change, so I have a range of change in my hand, ready for whatever cost it might be. I certainly wouldn't stop getting a bus for fear of a rebuke from a bus driver, that really is just a bizarre complaint.

In reference to OP, I think he was in the wrong. He should have left the bus when asked. The bus driver was an idiot if he actually grinned at him when driving away.

dfx-

MOH wrote: »

That's at least the third mention of 'bus haters' in this thread. Who are these mysterious haters? Are they a shadowy bunch of people who meet in secret to plot the downfall of Dublin Bus, or are they perhaps just ordinary commuters who after years of suffering shoddy treatment by bus drivers can sympathise with a customer facing another instance of a driver behaving like a tool.

I could equally comment on the number of DB drivers taking the driver's side, it's natural since that's the side they're more familiar with. Perhaps you'd be OK with me referring to you as 'commuter haters'?

Fully agree - those damn customers! :mad:

A significant majority I would guess backing the driver are drivers...and it's not unusual I would say. Fare evasion, shouldn't get the bus behind and was asking to be picked out, it's the missing link to anti-social behaviour (:eek::eek:), blaming the OP and his attitude, the OP is not telling the full story, ignoring what the driver did to focus on what the OP did...it's incredible.

It's like the driver couldn't possibly be at fault. Oh no, not us drivers.

mickoneill30

Verb wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't stop getting a bus for fear of a rebuke from a bus driver, that really is just a bizarre complaint.

I was thinking that too. I've never had a driver giving out to me (and I've been using DB for about 20 years now) for saying my destination and then throwing in the coins for whatever he says the price is. If it happens so much to somebody that they have to walk to avoid getting barked at then there's something wrong somewhere.

I always have some change though. I could see it getting annoying if I hopped on, asked the fare and then started rummaging around for money. Too many people do that.

spareman

MOH wrote: »

That's at least the third mention of 'bus haters' in this thread. Who are these mysterious haters? Are they a shadowy bunch of people who meet in secret to plot the downfall of Dublin Bus, or are they perhaps just ordinary commuters who after years of suffering shoddy treatment by bus drivers can sympathise with a customer facing another instance of a driver behaving like a tool.
I could equally comment on the number of DB drivers taking the driver's side, it's natural since that's the side they're more familiar with. Perhaps you'd be OK with me referring to you as 'commuter haters'?



Where exactly is the fare evasion here anyway? The driver stopped at the 1.50 limit, which is where the OP had paid to. The OP was then asked to leave the bus, which he didn't. He offered to pay the difference or get a new ticket, which the driver refused.

If the driver had just announced Dolphin's Barn, then carried on and stopped at the next stop and caused this scene, then the OP would have traveled further than he had paid for. But as it was, I don't see any fare evasion.

What I was referring too is that when a thread like this starts, other posters, some of which probably haven't used a bus in the last 10 years, post comments about dublin bus which have absolutely nothing to do with the op's problem.

The reason the bus driver's are backing the driver is because we have a better understanding of the situation. I mean you cant even see the fare evasion here.

It can be hard sometimes to be friendly to all passengers, especially when you have just had a bad experience with a passenger, it can be hard to lift the spirts to greet the next customer with a smile or whatever.
And I agree there are bad apples out there, but I think they are few and far between nowadays.

I think there is alot misunderstanding in the things us drivers do, Like what was said earlier about buses not wanting to stop when there is another bus at the stop.

The other night I was parked on parnell Square on the 46A route, there were about 15 people waiting at the stop, and it had just starting raining, I pulled down to the stop to let the people in out of the rain, I wasn't due out for 10 Min's and told them all that when they boarded, as I sat there waiting my time a 145 pulled around and left straight away, a few of the passengers actually started giving out to me because they could have got the 145 and I was delaying them by 5/6 Min's. This is why most drivers would not do what I did and maybe I wont in future, But from the passenger side it looks like the driver doesn't care about his passengers and leaves them out in the rain while he reads his paper or drinks his coffee, there are reasons for most of the bad stuff we do, it's just that the passengers don't understand why we do them.

Ive been working for Dublin Bus for the past 5 years, and the only time Ive heard passengers referred too as "skulls" was on a prime time programme where they had some driver who was sacked out of dublin bus, and now work's for the opposition speaking about his experience working for DB in the 80s.

shltter

MOH wrote: »

or are they perhaps just ordinary commuters who after years of suffering shoddy treatment by bus drivers can sympathise with a customer facing another instance of a driver behaving like a tool.

Surely you mean a commuter acting like a Tool he stopped a bus he did not need to stop because he is "Finicky", did not pay his correct fare and then refused to leave the bus.

If you are asked to leave the bus and you do not have a valid ticket to go any further the only sensible course of action is to leave.

MOH wrote: »

Where exactly is the fare evasion here anyway? The driver stopped at the 1.50 limit, which is where the OP had paid to. The OP was then asked to leave the bus, which he didn't. He offered to pay the difference or get a new ticket, which the driver refused.

If the driver had just announced Dolphin's Barn, then carried on and stopped at the next stop and caused this scene, then the OP would have travelled further than he had paid for. But as it was, I don't see any fare evasion.

By this logic, if I get on a bus thinking the fare is 1.50, travel to the 1.50 limit, and realise I want to go further, there's no point in me approaching the driver and asking to pay the difference or buy a new ticket, because I'm likely to be treated as a 'fare evader' and kicked off the bus.

The OP was not intending to leave the bus and refused to leave the bus and was not planning on paying additional money to travel further.

The OP obviously makes this journey on a regular basis and should be aware of the correct fare.

If you make a genuine mistake no problem if you change your mind after starting the journey no problem. If you approach me before you start the journey and tell me you are short of money no problem ( as long as it is not a regular thing I had a guy one morning approach me with a 20 euro note no shops forgot to get change. No problem let him travel next morning lo and behold same place same time up he steps with €20 and begins the exact same story not a hope.)

shltter

spareman wrote: »

The other night I was parked on parnell Square on the 46A route, there were about 15 people waiting at the stop, and it had just starting raining, I pulled down to the stop to let the people in out of the rain, I wasn't due out for 10 Min's and told them all that when they boarded, as I sat there waiting my time a 145 pulled around and left straight away, a few of the passengers actually started giving out to me because they could have got the 145 and I was delaying them by 5/6 Min's. This is why most drivers would not do what I did and maybe I wont in future, But from the passenger side it looks like the driver doesn't care about his passengers and leaves them out in the rain while he reads his paper or drinks his coffee, there are reasons for most of the bad stuff we do, it's just that the passengers don't understand why we do them.

Have had the exact same experience when someone lifts you out of it when you are trying to do the right thing by them. Of course if you had left them in the rain for 10 mins and no 145 had come you would be the worst in the world as well.
If I do it I pull up announce that I'm not leaving for X minutes but you still get people who don't listen or who have a phone or Ipod stuck in their ear who will come back and have a moan when you don't move.

spareman wrote: »

Ive been working for Dublin Bus for the past 5 years, and the only time Ive heard passengers referred too as "skulls" was on a prime time programme where they had some driver who was sacked out of dublin bus, and now work's for the opposition speaking about his experience working for DB in the 80s.

A lot longer than 5 years and I have heard the term from time to time there is nothing derogatory in it. It comes from the days of conductors when the conductor had finished collecting fares he would check how many tickets he had issued and then count the heads as he stood at the back of the bus to see if he got everyone. Heads = Skulls thats were it comes from in the Airline industry the term souls is used.
Its not like we don't use the bus service as well in which case your someone elses skull.

spareman

when I complained about a driver verbally abusing me when I queried why he changed route after boarding. Got a 'we'll make sure it doesn't happen again' type response (despite them saying they didn't know who the driver was....).

This happens to me quite alot when I'm operating the 46B route, as soon as I turn up fosters avenue I am verbally abused by passengers insisting Ive changed the route after they have boarded.

You go to Trinity. The bus driver was just taking out a bad day on someone who he knows is far superior to him mentally and probably in every other way as well.

How was the driver to know op was far superior to him? As far as I know op didn't have trinity student wrote on his forehead.

Just another CIE jobs worth that thinks he's clever and unfortunately there's plenty more like him.

Just another CIE jobs worth trying to protect his future, rumors of 400 driver's to be laid off the same week this happened.

They had to stand in the rain while the bus driver read his paper.

See my earlier post.

you should get a bicycle or moped, they're faster than the bus and you don't have to listen to dickhead bus drivers.

I agree bike or moped are faster than buses, particularly at rush hour, and if you use the bus correctly you would never have to listen to dickhead bus drivers.

I had an incident where a driver got out of his bus and had a go at me in my car for waiting for a turning light and wondering why I didn't run a red one.

Where did this happen? Hard to believe driver actually wanted you to run a red? Ive often been stuck behind some gimp waiting for the arrow on a full green but Ive never asked someone to run a red.

it is a fact that 97.34%* of all bus drivers are wánkers.

really?

Actually, maybe it's worth pointing this out, as to what "type of bus driver he was" -
Do you know when two buses come, and the one behind tries to sneak off? Well he was on of them drivers!

As explained in earlier post, there are reasons for this, You know when you wait 30 Min's for a bus then 3 come at once? well passengers like you can cause this to happen.

I've seen a load of women being thrown off buses. If that's a rule most drivers are happy enough to break it. What's a kid? When I was 14 (some of us would have been 12) about 10 of us were thrown of a bus, that would be women and kids.

There's no rule on women being thrown off but kids are a different story, anyone under 16 should never be put off a bus, but thats not to say we can't call the guards if we have a problem with them.

I guarantee the driver who wants the exact fare for the journey is not as quick to give people back their change ticket after they have paid too much.

Another common myth, Bus drivers gain nothing by not printing a receipt ticket, sometimes if a card is being validated at the same time as we are issuing a receipt it doesn't print first time, and other times the passenger walks off before we have a chance to issue the change ticket, Personally I always issue change receipts regardless, alot of the time the passenger behind receives your change ticket, and sometimes I cant see how much was put in and don't realize I need to give change.

Dublin Bus' machine has cost me €44 in replacements and an arbitrary €36 from two weeks of my ticket not used

.
I don't understand this one at all? surely if your ticket doesn't work in the machine you can have it replaced free, or just show the driver.

One day as the bus was turning right to Kildare st. from Nassau I heard this bang. Turns out the rear left of the bus had swung out and hit the rear quarter panel of some lady's car (which was stationary on the correct side of the white line. Anyway year man pulls up outside the Dáil and waits for a cycle Garda from Pearse St. Bus driver quickly informs the Garda that nobody saw the accident. I was last person out (sitting at the back) and duely told the Garda what had happened. The bus driver wasn't too happy about this and getting very aggressive with me so I said fúck it and walked to the bus stop.

Two weeks later I was driven past twice with my arm out (same driver) in pissing rain. Then when I got on at the first stop in third week after, he refused my entry as the card reader was broken and he couldn't be sure that my ticket was valid (12.20 in Rathmines with an exam at 1pm which I was late for, had to hail a taxi). At this point I had had enough and went to Dublin Bus with all the dates, offenses and bus reg plate numbers. The complaint line is a joke, I was told that they'd review the case on the friday (it was wednesday) at some meeting. That next week I was also refused entry because I hadn't got my student num written on my ticket. (Brand new ticket, not even validated, and I had my travelcard on me too).

So yeah, I was told I had an 'attitude problem', that I was a 'chancer', that I saw something that 'didn't happen' on Kildare st. and physically forced off the bus by the driver who left his cabin.

I promptly returned to Dublin Bus and gave **** to the supervisor. Got a call from the manager of Harristown Depot apologising profusely that Saturday evening. He said that the guy was out of line and abusing his power. His job is to drive the bus and take fares. Not to check tickets or heckle passengers. I got 6 months of bus/train/luas passes and a written apology from the driver (He got his pay suspended for a week and was transferred to another route in North Dublin.

Good story, only problem is managers dont work Saturdays, unless off course he was ringing you from home maybe.

What really makes my blood boil though is, of many times I've got on a 56A/77/77A in the past, not once has a skanger been approached for smoking on the bus. Cowards like this guy just want easy targets.
As for complaining to Dublin Bus, forget about it - it's a joke setup and you'll get nowhere.

Alot of the time I can smell the smoke, but unlike you I can't see the skanger who is smoking, If your willing to point out a smoker let me know and I will make sure he is removed from the bus, Cowards are the one's that don't confront the passengers and turn a blind eye to fare evasion.
And AFAIK the joke setup complaint system has turned up thrumps and the op was contacted by the manager in Ringsend depot.

The real culprit here is Dublin Bus for having a ridiculous fare structure that nobody understands.

Its not that hard now, come on?

I think it's really rich seeing as some drivers have to be asked to print change tickets and even at that they're extremely inconvenient to collect.

See paragraph above regarding change tickets, I think they make it hard for people to collect to cut down on abuse of the change system, they don't expire AFAIK, surely everyone is in O Connell street at least once a year, think of it as a savings scheme.

Hard luck OP, some of them drivers are real arseholders.

Happened me before a while back and I was talking to the driver at the cab and he was rambling all sorts of ****e and wouldn't stop.

I touched his arm when I was talking to him saying not be be such a dickhead n that and then he got on the radio and told the depot that he was after been assaulted and to get the gardai!

Absolute nob-end. Probably the same driver!

You touched his arm and he accused you of assault? Really?

Dublin is the only city in the world where I've witnessed passengers wait at bus stops for so long that they are forced to flag down taxis to get to where they want to go on time.

Most bus routes have pretty good frequency nowadays, for others you really need a timetable, and hope the traffic ain't too bad.

I don't think the driver would have tried the same trick had the OP been a menancing-looking junkie.

Believe me we have to deal with all sorts of people in our daily grind.

The driver's actions were completely out of line with the OP's error. It's probably because the OP goes to Trinity - and looks educated - that the driver felt he could get one up on him. Class envy is a very powerful thing.

Please explain how somebody look's educated? How was driver to know op was trinity student? nobody has answered me on that one yet.

However there are some idiots in DB who are not like this, one night on the 10, the last bus it was, someone had 1.49 for the fare for what was a 1.50 fare and the driver would not let her on.

Sure she wasn't walking sideways after swamping a few beers in the ucd bar, Hard to believe any driver would refuse someone over 1 cent, even the dickhead ones.

I fully agree with you how rude they are at Dublin bus. I've seen a Dublin bus driver telling a foreign guy to **** off three times on the bus one day because the guy was asking him why he didn't stop at the bus stop as he press the bell.

eg. I fully agree with you how rude they are on boards.ie, can you see how Ive just tarnished every poster on boards.ie, seriously posts like this really annoy me, we are not all bad. Maybe this happened, maybe you were ear wigging and got the wrong end of the stick, either way you can't be going round spreading this crap unless you have the full story, Drivers don't tell passengers to F**k off because they missed there stop, at least I hope they don't.

Anyway most of the drivers are lazy, ignorant and stupid. Dublin bus is a crap company along with its staff.

Do you work for a private bus company or something, seriously how can you back up your statement here?

No TALKING to the DRIVER!!!
Dont make him tap the sign!

We don't do that really? do we?

customers. A word you seldom hear with Dublin Bus, where some of the drivers still refer to them as the 'skulls.'

Ah you have seen that prime time special too, very good.

for the DB drivers, how many 70cent shopper fares have ye sold? recently or ever? these seem to be the least widely advertised fares. And I don't think there's prepaid ticket versions of them.

In 5 years, Id say less than 20. In fairness Id say it's quicker to walk than take a bus between parnell square and stephens green, maybe thats why it's so unpopular.

Stark

spareman wrote: »

Another common myth, Bus drivers gain nothing by not printing a receipt ticket, sometimes if a card is being validated at the same time as we are issuing a receipt it doesn't print first time, and other times the passenger walks off before we have a chance to issue the change ticket, Personally I always issue change receipts regardless, alot of the time the passenger behind receives your change ticket, and sometimes I cant see how much was put in and don't realize I need to give change.

Funnily enough, I've gotten on buses a few times to find a change ticket left in the machine from the previous person who got on

MOH

spareman wrote: »

The reason the bus driver's are backing the driver is because we have a better understanding of the situation. I mean you cant even see the fare evasion here.

I've just gone back and re-read the original post. Based purely on that, and taking it at face value, the OP paid what he believed was the correct fare. When challenged, he objected at first, which was wrong, but then offered to pay the correct fare, which was refused. And he never actually went past the stop he had paid to.
So unless you've got some novel definition of 'fare evasion', then no, I can't see the fare evasion here.

shltter wrote: »

.
If you are asked to leave the bus and you do not have a valid ticket to go any further the only sensible course of action is to leave.

If you make a genuine mistake no problem if you change your mind after starting the journey no problem.

Surely those two statements are contradictory?

The OP was not intending to leave the bus and refused to leave the bus and was not planning on paying additional money to travel further.

The OP obviously makes this journey on a regular basis and should be aware of the correct fare.

Go back and *read* the original post. The OP obviously does *not* make this exact journey on a regular basis, and *did* offer to pay additional money.

spareman

MOH wrote: »

I've just gone back and re-read the original post. Based purely on that, and taking it at face value, the OP paid what he believed was the correct fare. When challenged, he objected at first, which was wrong, but then offered to pay the correct fare, which was refused. And he never actually went past the stop he had paid to.
So unless you've got some novel definition of 'fare evasion', then no, I can't see the fare evasion here.

I suppose your right, Technically there was no fare evaison, because the driver did not allow it, however op did atempt to evade the fare before being pulled up by the driver, and I believe had op acted in a calm manner he would have been allowed to stay on the bus once he paid the excess.
But once he becane confrontational and agreesive he left the driver with little option really.
And remember the driver wasn't to know op's true destination, he could have been going to Tallaght for all the driver knew.

Unregistered.

spareman wrote: »

however op did atempt to evade the fare before being pulled up by the driver

Did i?? that implies prior knowledge. Where are you getting this from?

spareman wrote: »

becane confrontational and agreesive

You're actually describing the driver here. HE confronted me upstairs in a brash and "heavy-handed" sort of manner. At no point did I become aggressive. I do not know why you keep saying that.
Stick up for you peers, fair enough, however stick to the facts. Everyone on here can see that you're pulling most of your claims out of nowhere, so what is the point?

spareman

Unregistered. wrote: »

Did i?? that implies prior knowledge. Where are you getting this from?

As Ive already siad, I can see this from the driver's view point, Ok fair enough you may have made a mistake, but this is no excuse, its your responsability to ensure you have a valid ticket for your entire journey.
If it was a genuine mistake, your unlucky really, in that you didn't take the bus at the stop for whatever reason and once you stopped the 56A the driver can only presume your traveling past Walkinstown, When you paid €1.50 he decided he would remember to trow you out at dolphins barn, Had the other bus not been at the stop you probably would have got away with it.

You're actually describing the driver here. HE confronted me upstairs in a brash and "heavy-handed" sort of manner. At no point did I become aggressive. I do not know why you keep saying that.
Stick up for you peers, fair enough, however stick to the facts. Everyone on here can see that you're pulling most of your claims out of nowhere, so what is the point?

Your the one who said you went downstairs and confronted the driver.
The driver is entitled to use resonable force to remove you from the bus.

Answer me one question please, Why do you think the driver announced dolphins barn over the pa, I mean unless he told you when you boarded that your €1.50 was good to Dolphins barn, Why would he say that over the PA? Did the driver mention anything about this when you boarded? Because it would explain his "Brash" and "Heavy Handed" sort of manner after you made him come upstairs to you by not responding to the PA announcement.

meanmachine3

Quote:
Originally Posted by spareman
however op did atempt to evade the fare before being pulled up by the driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered.

Did i?? that implies prior knowledge. Where are you getting this from?
.;57

Unregistered976231 wrote:

The bus gets to Dolphins Barn, 3 stops away from mine. Then the bus driver starts calling "Dolphin's Barn, Dolphin's Barn!" before announcing via intercom that I had to get off because my ticket said dolphin's barn! I was shocked! He came upstairs, pointed me out, told me to check me ticket and said he will not move until I get off! I had not realized that the fare should have been 1.70, and besides that I only had the 1.50.
I told him this is not my stop and he said "fine, we'll wait for the guards". I refused to get out and walk for 10-15 minutes in the rain!

Originally Posted by Unregistered.
At no point did I become aggressive. I do not know why you keep saying that.

Unregistered wrote:

So I ended up confronting him downstairs ,i gave out to him for forcing me to walk in the rain

so what do you call this. these are all your words and quotes unreg. now look at the bold ones unreg ,infact everyone please look at the bold quotes i have put up from unreg


unreg spareman is correct. you did not make any attempt try to get of at the stop where the bus driver announced.you also dont mention whether anyone got on or off at the stop the driver announced.so i'm assuming here that the driver pulled into the stop and announced dolphins barn. had the driver driven past that stop then you would've been fare evading. that ticket you bought only got you as far as that bus stop where the driver asked/told you to get off the bus.
yes you are right in that you did not fare evade but the intent was there even after it being pointed out to you where your last stop was according to your ticket you had no intention of leaving the bus. most passengers only intervene when they are delayed so when the driver told you where your stop was
(A) no passenger had come forward to give you the 20c
and
(B)you had no intention of getting of the bus even though it had been pointed out to you where your stop was.

here is you intent

Unregistered wrote:

I refused to get out and walk for 10-15 minutes in the rain

dfx-

spareman wrote: »

If it was a genuine mistake, your unlucky really, in that you didn't take the bus at the stop for whatever reason and once you stopped the 56A the driver can only presume your traveling past Walkinstown, When you paid €1.50 he decided he would remember to trow you out at dolphins barn, Had the other bus not been at the stop you probably would have got away with it.



Your the one who said you went downstairs and confronted the driver.
The driver is entitled to use resonable force to remove you from the bus.

Answer me one question please, Why do you think the driver announced dolphins barn over the pa, I mean unless he told you when you boarded that your €1.50 was good to Dolphins barn, Why would he say that over the PA? Did the driver mention anything about this when you boarded? Because it would explain his "Brash" and "Heavy Handed" sort of manner after you made him come upstairs to you by not responding to the PA announcement.

No matter how many times I read that reasoning, I'm still :eek: :eek:

Didn't the driver go up and confront the OP upstairs first? Kinda sets the tone, whether he can use reasonable force or nuclear armoury.

If it was a genuine mistake, why would the OP react to simply "Dolphin's Barn"? You're looking for an explanation of the driver's manner - fair enough, but it won't exonerate him.

spareman

dfx- wrote: »

No matter how many times I read that reasoning, I'm still :eek: :eek:

Didn't the driver go up and confront the OP upstairs first? Kinda sets the tone, whether he can use reasonable force or nuclear armoury.

If it was a genuine mistake, why would the OP react to simply "Dolphin's Barn"? You're looking for an explanation of the driver's manner - fair enough, but it won't exonerate him.

I can't understand why the driver would announce Dolphins barn unless he told op when he boarded that his ticket was good till Dolphins barn.

It may have been a mistake, but If op was actually traveling to Tallaght for €1.50 would you agree it was still a mistake?

The driver in this case knew no different, and after op failed to get bus at stop and hailed down 56A, the driver obviously tought he was just another scrounger going to Tallaght for €1.50.

Am I speaking a different language here or what? As far as I can see this is plain and simple, Its unfortunate that it happened if it was a genuine mistake but the driver wasn't to know op's final destination.

In my opinion the driver doesn't need to be exonerated, Passenger was in the wrong because he didn't have a valid ticket to continue past Dolphins barn. Obviously the driver was convinced op was trying to evade the fare, especially after he let the other bus go and hailed down the 56A.

Blackjack

meanmachine3 wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by spareman
however op did atempt to evade the fare before being pulled up by the driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered.

Did i?? that implies prior knowledge. Where are you getting this from?
.;57
Originally Posted by Unregistered.
At no point did I become aggressive. I do not know why you keep saying that.

so what do you call this. these are all your words and quotes unreg. now look at the bold ones unreg ,infact everyone please look at the bold quotes i have put up from unreg


unreg spareman is correct. you did not make any attempt try to get of at the stop where the bus driver announced.you also dont mention whether anyone got on or off at the stop the driver announced.so i'm assuming here that the driver pulled into the stop and announced dolphins barn. had the driver driven past that stop then you would've been fare evading. that ticket you bought only got you as far as that bus stop where the driver asked/told you to get off the bus.
yes you are right in that you did not fare evade but the intent was there even after it being pointed out to you where your last stop was according to your ticket you had no intention of leaving the bus. most passengers only intervene when they are delayed so when the driver told you where your stop was
(A) no passenger had come forward to give you the 20c
and
(B)you had no intention of getting of the bus even though it had been pointed out to you where your stop was.

here is you intent

This post says it all for me really. OP was evading, or about to had the bus driver moved the bus from where he was in Dolphins barn. The Weather is no excuse for fare evasion.

jahalpin

I wasn't aware that Dublin Bus drivers had the authority to remove people from the buses for short-paying a fare. As far as I'm aware, the only staff with the authority to remove people for short-paying fare would be a supervisor\inspector.

As for threatening to call the police, that was totally out of line. It would be outrageous if the police had actually arrived to remove him from the bus for short-paying a fare

John R

jahalpin wrote: »

I wasn't aware that Dublin Bus drivers had the authority to remove people from the buses for short-paying a fare. As far as I'm aware, the only staff with the authority to remove people for short-paying fare would be a supervisor\inspector.

You are wrong. Of course bus drivers have the authority to remove or have removed people who are in breach of the regulations.

jahalpin wrote: »

As for threatening to call the police, that was totally out of line. It would be outrageous if the police had actually arrived to remove him from the bus for short-paying a fare

Why? The rule is that a passenger must have paid the correct fare for their journey, if not they have no right to be allowed continued travel. If they will not leave willingly then the only option is to have the gardai physically remove them.

jahalpin

It is the drivers job to drive the bus along the route at times dictated by the timetable.

It is the supervisors job to ensure that the buses run to timetable and that the passengers have paid the correct fare.

The only time that the bus should be stopped and the police called is if the driver is fearful for the safety of himself or other passengers.

It is about time that the staff of Dublin Bus were informed that they are there to provide a service to their customers.

John_C

jahalpin wrote: »

The only time that the bus should be stopped and the police called is if the driver is fearful for the safety of himself or other passengers.

Is that your opinion or is it written down in a regulation?

shltter

dfx- wrote: »

Didn't the driver go up and confront the OP upstairs first? Kinda sets the tone, whether he can use reasonable force or nuclear armoury.

No he made an announcement over the PA obviously the OP did not react to this announcement so what should the driver do

Keep using the PA
Sing a song
Write him a strongly worded letter
Send him a Postcard.

Or do what he is perfectly entitled to do approach the passenger wherever he is upstairs or down and inform him that he has reached the last stop that his ticket is valid for.

shltter

jahalpin wrote: »

It is about time that the staff of Dublin Bus were informed that they are there to provide a service to their customers.

To their fare paying customers if you don't have a valid ticket you are not a customer.

Its like expecting customer service in Dunnes while you shop lift.

How far do you think a complaint to management in Dunnes would go if you said
I was just trying to steal something from your shop and one of your staff was not very nice to me.

shltter

jahalpin wrote: »

It is the drivers job to drive the bus along the route at times dictated by the timetable.

It is the supervisors job to ensure that the buses run to timetable and that the passengers have paid the correct fare.

The only time that the bus should be stopped and the police called is if the driver is fearful for the safety of himself or other passengers.

It is about time that the staff of Dublin Bus were informed that they are there to provide a service to their customers.

The driver is an Authorised person under the bye laws governing the use of Buses operated by Dublin Bus as such a Driver is entitled to request anyone in breach of those bye laws to leave the Bus and if they refuse to call the gardai to assist in the removal.

The driver is not responsible to be aware of every ones fare but if they become aware they have a responsibility to protect the company's revenue as far as possible.

And you don't have to be in fear of anyones safety to request someone to leave a bus someone can be creating a nuisance without actually threatening anyone or indeed just not have paid their fare. If they refuse to leave then you request the Gardai the same as if someone refused to leave anyones premises Bank, Shop, Surgery or Office.

corktina

this is just getting silly now....OF COURSE the driver was within his rights....

tba

Unregistered. wrote: »

To quote a passenger, "He's bent on power, a little Hitler!"

Godwins law in the first post.... a record?

Carawaystick

AlekSmart wrote: »

Whilst Carawaystick is correct to point out the lack of explicit guidance available online,there is substantial stuff in printed form.

Without actually accquiring from head office a copy of the Dublin Bus Bye-Laws (SI394/1996) the most readily available summary is contained at the back of the current printed timetable (Page 237-239)

The checking of one`s ticket as it`s issued takes a mere glance to ascertain the from and to stops...remember it`s only in case of a discrepancy that delay creeps in

...

However,time after time these people`s good intentions are frustrated by those who simply do not subscribe to efficiency in any way shape or form and whose actions will repeatedly delay an already slow service.

but my point is that the links on Dublin Bus's website are at variance with the company's byelaws.

So what should an occasional customer do, after boarding, asking the driver how much it is from the stop to the desired destination, paying the driver the requested sum(from the ready supply of change already at hand, so's not to delay) and checking the ticket to see that the From says the name of a town 8.5 km away, while the To says the name of a lane in that town.

Should he point it out to the driver and delay the bus full of people already an hour on the bus, or let it slide, and condone fare evasion?

AlekSmart

"So what should an occasional customer do, after boarding, asking the driver how much it is from the stop to the desired destination, paying the driver the requested sum(from the ready supply of change already at hand, so's not to delay) and checking the ticket to see that the From says the name of a town 8.5 km away, while the To says the name of a lane in that town.

Should he point it out to the driver and delay the bus full of people already an hour on the bus, or let it slide, and condone fare evasion?"

In a word,yes.

It`s in the customers own interest cos it`s the customers responsibility to ensure that they are in possession of a valid ticket.
And it does`nt HAVE to be confrontational.