Kicked off of the 56A!

Profiler

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well, to be fair to Dublin Bus, the first thing the passenger should have done was stated his destination to the driver on entering the bus and paid the correct fare :-) But it's a bit late for that now.

well... if you are lucky...

You should try the magical fare as I like to call it. It's on the number 11 bus. The journey from the Middle of Home Farm road to O'Connell street.

Somedays it costs me €1.50 and some days it costs me €2.00

Some days when I get on the bus outside Corpus Christi primary school as I do every time I take the 11 into work I magically get transported back to Wadelai Park... or at least my ticket tells me that's where I got on!

I made the mistake of suggesting to the driver that he has neglected to update what stop he just visited.

I got a very angry response... on telling the driver to calm down and stating that he was overreacting the driver turned the engine off and said if I didn't get off the bus he would call the Gardai on me.

I smiled, took out my mobile phone and asked if he would like to use to call the Gardai. The driver shot me a look (that would kill if looks could kill) started the engine, closed the door of the bus (with me still on it) and drove off.

AlekSmart

Unregistered : Actually, maybe it's worth pointing this out, as to what "type of bus driver he was" -

Do you know when two buses come, and the one behind tries to sneak off? Well he was on of them drivers!

*I am really finicky about buses, e.g, if two buses come, i get on the one with least amount of people, or if an old one and a new one come together, I have to get on the new one. etc..*
So @ Pearse Street, two buses came at once, and i ran down to get this one before he overtook the first one. I was the only person to get on there, but it only had a few people on at this stage.
However, passengers @ Trinity College stop were not so lucky! He thought his bus was out of view and overtook the bus in front, even though there were passengers coming down to get it!!!!
he was like that a most if the stops, not pulling in until he had to, almost trying to avoid picking people up.

And did i mention it was raining yesterday?

What on the surface appeared to be quite a legitimate complaint from the OP began to metamorphose in post 48,quoted above.

I am always reluctant in my dealings with people,in either my public or private capacity of attempting to typecast others.

It is something one learns from life experience and in Busdriving terms can mean the difference between night and day.

Some examples would be,the amount of people who cannot read..destinations,numbers or notices.
The amount of people who cannot count.
People who are virtually deaf.
People suffering from a wide range of physical and emotional problems such as Tourette`s.

In no case can I as a Busdriver tell "what type" of persons they are from looking at them,even if they exhibit the occasional tell tale sign.
Nor do I want to.
These and all other passengers are Individuals and each journey they make is a new one,a distinct one from whatever went before and I most certainly won`t take any personality defining aspects out of their brief interchange with me a "mere" (apologies to Prize Fighter) Busdriver

In this instance the OP goes a little further and tells us that he actually knew what the driver was thinking.

This I fear takes the nature of the original complaint and paints around it a new and enlightening background.

However,staying with the broader picture and Antoin O`L`s mention of the mens rea element.
It`s clear from his post that by removing any and all Stage Point Markings from its Bus Stops,Bus Atha Cliath has effectively ended its chances of securing a conviction in any Civil or Criminal Court.

Any person caught over-riding or evading a Bus Fare can simply testify to the effect that there was no indication of a stage marking at their point of boarding nor at any other point in their journey.

A Judge would,I believe simply ask counsel for the company if this were true and upon confirmation would simply strike out.....whether the plaintiff might have a case for wrongful prosecution as a result of the companys failure to conform to the requirements of its own system is a horse of another colour.

zuroph

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unregistered : Actually, maybe it's worth pointing this out, as to what "type of bus driver he was" -

Do you know when two buses come, and the one behind tries to sneak off? Well he was on of them drivers!


What on the surface appeared to be quite a legitimate complaint from the OP began to metamorphose in post 48,quoted above.

I am always reluctant in my dealings with people,in either my public or private capacity of attempting to typecast others.

It is something one learns from life experience and in Busdriving terms can mean the difference between night and day.

Some examples would be,the amount of people who cannot read..destinations,numbers or notices.
The amount of people who cannot count.
People who are virtually deaf.
People suffering from a wide range of physical and emotional problems such as Tourette`s.

In no case can I as a Busdriver tell "what type" of persons they are from looking at them,even if they exhibit the occasional tell tale sign.
Nor do I want to.
These and all other passengers are Individuals and each journey they make is a new one,a distinct one from whatever went before and I most certainly won`t take any personality defining aspects out of their brief interchange with me a "mere" (apologies to Prize Fighter) Busdriver

In this instance the OP goes a little further and tells us that he actually knew what the driver was thinking.

This I fear takes the nature of the original complaint and paints around it a new and enlightening background.

However,staying with the broader picture and Antoin O`L`s mention of the mens rea element.
It`s clear from his post that by removing any and all Stage Point Markings from its Bus Stops,Bus Atha Cliath has effectively ended its chances of securing a conviction in any Civil or Criminal Court.

Any person caught over-riding or evading a Bus Fare can simply testify to the effect that there was no indication of a stage marking at their point of boarding nor at any other point in their journey.

A Judge would,I believe simply ask counsel for the company if this were true and upon confirmation would simply strike out.....whether the plaintiff might have a case for wrongful prosecution as a result of the companys failure to conform to the requirements of its own system is a horse of another colour.

you think too much.

AlekSmart

Profiler,good on ye !

You should try the magical fare as I like to call it. It's on the number 11 bus. The journey from the Middle of Home Farm road to O'Connell street.

Somedays it costs me €1.50 and some days it costs me €2.00

It`s very simple really Home Farm Road Stage 20 to O Connell St Stage 25 = 5 Stages = €1.50.

No mystery....Thats why,as the signs in the chippers say,Please check your change before leaving.
The number 11 Terminus,Wadelai Park is Stage 18,Ballymun Road (The Rise) 19 and your point of boarding 20.

Where it gets interesting is Stage 21 Drumcondra Road Upper (Clonturk Park).
Here we have the limit of the €1.05 fare from the DCU gate which is still Stage 18.

Now the vast majority of those boarding at DCU are heading either to Drumcondra Rail Station (a rare example of modal integration in Dublin) or to An Lar.

However,in a substantial amount of cases no amount of gentle cajoling,direct enquiries,thumbscrews or vats of boiling oil can elicit a straight response,although to be fair DCU does specialize in courses geared towards the Communications industry.

Driver:Q."Where are you going ?"
Passenger:A."Ermm..eh..um..just down the road"

Driver: Q. "How far down the road"
Passenger: A. "Ah...a couple of stops like"

DRiver: Q."A couple of stops ? as in Two stops ?You`re getting off at Mobhi Road then ?"
Passenger: A.Eh..No,actually Drumcondra then.....

Driver: Q (Sighing heavily a la Parisian Bus Drivers when confronted by a Cash paying customer) "Whereabouts in Drumcondra"
Passenger : A ..........the....Train Station.....

Driver: " Thats €1.50 please"
Passenger: A. "But...I only ever pay €1.05" or
"The other driver said €1.05" or variations on that theme.

Did I mention it was raining and there`s a substantial queue behind the frustrated passenger ?

The next passenger then boards and sez....€1.05 pleese ..:eek: :eek: :eek:......

After a session of this mallarkey,its SO easy to just pass Stage 19 without updating,especially if there`s nobody there.
However Profilers fare to OC St would still be €1.50.

Did I also mention that there`s a nifty little Info Panel on the Bus Shelter with maps,timetables and other stuff like fares and stage information,but it`s usually only referred to by forriners who actually want to know the correct fare

I have been called a pwick,a smartass,a wonkstain,an assshole and much more besides for having the temerity to request the correct fare for the journey.

But hey....It comes with the territory and I don`t lose any sleep over it.

I must admit however to having to constantly remind myself that I am not dealing with underpriviliged,disadvantaged or otherwise deprived young people here.
I am dealing with young adults who by and large have progressed through two steps of our entire educational system and secured enough points to enter a University of some renown.

Just how much slack does one cut when dealing with situations such as this on an ongoing and increasing basis?

I should qualify all of the above by mentioning that the above scenario occurs during University Business Hours....Later in the night as sadly both Quinns and The Big Tree are in the €1.50 band the exact same tabelau is repeated except for some slurring of words and a certain instability of stature as well as a LOT more aggressive behaviour...

But hey...It comes with the territory and I don`t lose any sleep etc etc...

However any cash paying passenger should bear in mind the stricture contained in the Points of Law page of the Timetable.

Each passenger on boarding a bus shall:
Ensure that he/she has been issued with a valid ticket

Check it out !

By the way just to ensure a degree of balance is maintained and also to deflect allegations of North/South bias I should state that the EXACT same situation exists at UCD Belfield in relation to Ranelagh Village (Smyths and McSorelys being the Southern States equivalent of Quinns and The Big Tree)

Oh for the Joy of a FLAT FARE

meanmachine3

well said alek. a bit of a read but correctly put.
now over the last few days i was plodding away, the bus was fairly empty as in only about 6 passengers on, this guy gets on has a ticket in his hand and as i'm moving off walks past both validators. i looked at my ticket equipment to see if he used his ticket and to see what type of ticket he had. oh yes boys and girls even though we might not see what type of ticket you have, it does show up on our machines but getting back to my main point. i pulled into the next stop went upstairs asked this guy for his ticket went down to the smartcard reader with his ticket and lord and behold it used up one of his days. the guy hadn't even bothered to validate his ticket and when i said it to him his answer was "i didn't know i had to do that" . these poor passengers were delayed by about 3-4 minutes.
now my question to you folks is
was he fare evading or was it a genuine mistake? and do you think i was right in confronting him over his ticket or should i have just let him travel for free just because i had a few passengers
to the O.P. i would love you to put up a poll about your run in with the driver and just asked the following.
was the driver right in what he did?

HydeRoad

Circle Line had a different fare system. A €2 flat fare, and a €1 short fare. There were just six stages, Celbridge, Lucan, Palmerstown, Heuston, Ballsbridge and Nutgrove. Travel between two stages was €1, travel anything over two stages was €2. It meant in some cases they were dearer than Dublin Bus, and in some cases cheaper. In the interests of simplicity for both customers and staff it was a great system. Alas, the gremlins got in, and by order of somebody or other, the fares crept up, and it became €1.20, and €2.20, and later a bit more. That goosed the idea of a simple one coin fare, but at least the simplified stage structure could be maintained.

Drivers were expected to check for the correct fare, but with the simplicity of the stage structure, it was instantly ascertainable. Under no circumstances were drivers to be aggressive or rude with passengers, propriety was upheld at all times. If a driver was deliberately rude to customers, there was a simple and distinct disciplinary procedure, and ultimately, sacking.

Good manners cost nothing, and customers should be treated as that, customers. A word you seldom hear with Dublin Bus, where some of the drivers still refer to them as the 'skulls.' It would be nice if drivers could encourage repeat business from their customers. That's how it works by necessity in the private sector. It would be nice then, too, if there was an established and enforced back up from the company, i.e. inspectors, when a difficulty arises. The driver should be simply that, a professionally trained driver, and not some kind of self appointed bouncer. There is a professional way to deal with miscreants, a discretionary way, and a downright uncouth way. Which two promote the image of the company?

Carawaystick

shltter wrote: »

Is it for the benefit of the passengers to allow a minority to abuse the system and evade their fare surely all this does is increase the amount that the state must subsidise the operations.

What exactly is published that is at odds with the bye laws

.

I'd say these two pages
http://www.dublinbus.ie/home/how_to_use_the_bus.asp
http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares_and_tickets/howToUseASmartCard.asp

and byelaw 16 (a) you quoted earlier conflict. There is no clear instruction on either of these two pages to inform the driver of your destination.
If everyone boarding a bus using prepaid tickets informed the driver, then boarding time would be increased. Also people who cannot speak would be prevented from using the bus.

I don't believe there is any link between the subvention and the amount of fare evasion. The cost of the drivers actions as outlined and accepted here would easily cost more than EUR0.2
I'd say it is probably better to provide a fast efficient service and allow a minority evade fares, than implement a system which in slow and inefficient and no fare evasion occurs. It would be even better if a fast efficient system with a simple obvious fare structure which would greatly reduce any "accidental" underpayment of fares to occur.


Alek has pointed out

However any cash paying passenger should bear in mind the stricture contained in the Points of Law page of the Timetable.

Each passenger on boarding a bus shall:
Ensure that he/she has been issued with a valid ticket

again, if every passenger paying cash stopped to ensure this before leaving the doorway, boarding would be delayed. You could even argue if you were to take this to the extreme, that a person could look up Dublin Bus's website to see what the stages for their journey were.

Now I accept Dublin bus are contrained by Noel Dempsey and Julie O'Neill's Department from introducing a zone or flat fare, but surely every bus stop could list the fares and distance you can travel for a fare for the busses that serve them. This would reduce "accidentally" paying less than the correct fare.


Lastly, and a bit off topic, for the DB drivers, how many 70cent shopper fares have ye sold? recently or ever? these seem to be the least widely advertised fares. And I don't think there's prepaid ticket versions of them.

KC61

Carawaystick wrote: »

Now I accept Dublin bus are contrained by Noel Dempsey and Julie O'Neill's Department from introducing a zone or flat fare, but surely every bus stop could list the fares and distance you can travel for a fare for the busses that serve them. This would reduce "accidentally" paying less than the correct fare.

At most bus shelters there is now a panel showing the timetables for the routes serving that bus stop with the stages listed, and the fares displayed for the various staged journeys, with instructions on how to calculate the fare.

dub_commuter

KC61 wrote: »

At most bus shelters there is now a panel showing the timetables for the routes serving that bus stop with the stages listed, and the fares displayed for the various staged journeys, with instructions on how to calculate the fare.

All very well and good, but when the vast majority of Dublin Bus stops do not have shelters, and in most cases not even timetables, which is particularly apparent on the North Side of the Capital. The southside and City Centre are better in this regard.

AlekSmart

Whilst Carawaystick is correct to point out the lack of explicit guidance available online,there is substantial stuff in printed form.

Without actually accquiring from head office a copy of the Dublin Bus Bye-Laws (SI394/1996) the most readily available summary is contained at the back of the current printed timetable (Page 237-239)

The checking of one`s ticket as it`s issued takes a mere glance to ascertain the from and to stops...remember it`s only in case of a discrepancy that delay creeps in

Herein can be found the relevant information for cash fare transactions.

The electronic transactions,either mag-stripe or contactless are somewhat different as in the main they are not fare-stage based.
Some idea of the underlying corporate thinking on the issue can be found in the fact that BAC now only offers 2 denominations of 2-easy tickets at €1.05 and €1.50.

The most that the company can do without incurring the wrath of Julie `n Noel is to offer inducements such as non-consecutive day useage of Rambler Tickets and the single card 10 journey Travel 90.

I have found that most of my "Serious" regular bus commuters have either gone over to a Taxsaver Ticket (Easily the most cost effective mathod of Public Transport payment if it available) or they now use Ramblers or T90`s.

Once again I cannot state enough that these Customers SHOULD be the focus of the companys policy as they are demonstrating a committment to maintaining efficiency and keeping some form of fluidity in the service.

However,time after time these people`s good intentions are frustrated by those who simply do not subscribe to efficiency in any way shape or form and whose actions will repeatedly delay an already slow service.

Oddly enough one tends to notice how a persons attitudes can and suddenly do change.
The committed rooter and fumbler will have no problem spending up to a minute displaying their black art to the Driver.
That display and its repercussions on the other passengers "rights" is then rapidly forgotten once the Rooter sits down and begins to share observations re the awful delays on the Bus Service etc etc.

I am always greatful when one of my regular commuters from Ranelagh is aboard as this jolly old gentleman will sit downstairs and encourage those tawdry folks with some spirited advice.....

"Oh come along now,some of us want to get into town"

"Oh Dear could you not have counted your money at the stop....come along now hurry it along"

This little bit of pro-active stewarding is always welcome as it allows me to simply smile and nod towards the gent in silent agreement...but it REALLY does get up the noses of the eternally unready

As Hyde Road`s post illustrates,its not even a Public/Private issue it`s a human nature one.
Just as the former Circle Line`s "small is friendly" policy worked well for them,so too did it begin to falter as the company expanded its service and it`s thinking.
There is a world of difference structurally and motivationally in a business employing 50 and one with 3,000 souls struggling to understand the company motto

One point I am in total agreement with is the following.....

but surely every bus stop could list the fares and distance you can travel for a fare for the busses that serve them.

Sadly,whilst this has been raised internally on regular occasions we have had no response as the awful ramifications are considered in depth by a coven of horn-headed deities :eek:

I think I`ll go explore the Phillipines instead.... :pac:

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

All very well and good, but when the vast majority of Dublin Bus stops do not have shelters, and in most cases not even timetables, which is particularly apparent on the North Side of the Capital. The southside and City Centre are better in this regard.

True, but the new style bus stops that are slowly being rolled out do actually show how far you can travel on each route for each fare - reference the stops on O'Connell Street.

mickoneill30

dub_commuter wrote: »

All very well and good, but when the vast majority of Dublin Bus stops do not have shelters, and in most cases not even timetables, which is particularly apparent on the North Side of the Capital. The southside and City Centre are better in this regard.

Why not ask the driver? If I don't travel a route frequently enough to know the fare the driver generally knows where he's going and how much it costs.

You can guess the fare but then it's your problem if you guess too low and get caught.

If you do travel a route frequently (i.e. more than once, you know for future reference when you've asked him / her).

The original posters problem was that he asked for the wrong fare. If he hopped on the bus and said his destination then he's transferring the responsibility of calculating the fare to the driver.

In$omniac

Whether the driver was right or wrong in pulling you up over this, he handled it extremely badly there was no need for ignorance, if you had've told him to fcuk off or got really abusive, then maybe I could understand why he turned on the defensive/offensive.

Send as many emails, make as many phone calls as need be until you get someone who will follow this up, my friend is an inspector and I just rang him there now he said this guy will get a warning, but you will need witnesses, if any further action is to be taken.
Best of luck with it.

spareman

Unregistered. wrote: »

Yes, both via email (couldn’t get through on phone) last Thursday (the day it happened), then by phone on Friday.
I was given the usual, "we'll pass it on to the area manager" on the email.
The guy on the phone, after hearing the situation kept re-iterating that "he was just sticking to the book, the fare should have been 1.70" even though I was making a complaint about the driver’s attitude and behaviour through the situation. Found the phone call really frustrating, I wanted to complain about the guy who I was actually talking to.

Ok fair enough your making a complaint about the bus driver's behaviour, But you still had no valid ticket to travel any further, Look if I walk into a shop pick up a Herald €1.20, hand over a euro and walk out of the shop, do you think the shop keeper's behaviour would be any less than the bus driver's?
Could I complain that I was abused by the shopkeeper after it?
Do you see how stupid this looks yet?

All your doing here is giving opportunity to the bus critics to report on the latest CSO figures and give there ideas for an improved service, fare structure, route and timetable information etc etc etc.
Im not saying all bus driver's are a perfect example, your going to get bad apples everywhere, but I do believe they are in a minority.

You wanted to complain about the bus driver's behaviour because he caught you out.
You want to complain about the guy on the phone because he couldn't understand why you wanted to complain.

YOU DID NOT HAVE A VALID TICKET TO TRAVEL.
Therefore I believe you have no grounds to complain, you should not have been on the bus.

I mean your not the only one who does it, your just unlucky the driver decided to enforce the bye laws that day, for whatever reason (which your clearly not telling us as it would ruin your rant) he remembered you getting on the bus.

If I walked into a pub and underpaid for my drink I wouldn't expect the barman to display his great customer service skills to me.
As a bus driver I will make an effort to be nice and friendly to my passengers, Im not going to be nice and friendly to passengers who are intent on breaking the bus bye laws.

What started out as a complaint about a bus driver has decended into a full scale attack on every bus driver in the city, well 97% of us. Also management, fares, timetable info, routes etc. It makes me laugh, people giving out because a fare evader was caught, yet these are the same people who regularly have a pop at the amount of subvention Dublin bus recieve.

antoinolachtnai

meanmachine3 wrote: »

now over the last few days i was plodding away, the bus was fairly empty as in only about 6 passengers on, this guy gets on has a ticket in his hand and as i'm moving off walks past both validators. i looked at my ticket equipment to see if he used his ticket and to see what type of ticket he had. oh yes boys and girls even though we might not see what type of ticket you have, it does show up on our machines but getting back to my main point. i pulled into the next stop went upstairs asked this guy for his ticket went down to the smartcard reader with his ticket and lord and behold it used up one of his days. the guy hadn't even bothered to validate his ticket and when i said it to him his answer was "i didn't know i had to do that" . these poor passengers were delayed by about 3-4 minutes.
now my question to you folks is
was he fare evading or was it a genuine mistake?

I'd say he was evading the fare, but you wouldn't be able to prove it in Court.

That is the whole reason why the standard fare was introduced. It doesn't require the same level of proof.

and do you think i was right in confronting him over his ticket or should i have just let him travel for free just because i had a few passengers

I think myself that you should have hit him with a EUR 50 fine, or at the very least, a written warning when he failed to produce a ticket. (You may not have the facility to do that.)

There is a big difference between what you did and what the OP's driver did.

dub_commuter

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Why not ask the driver? If I don't travel a route frequently enough to know the fare the driver generally knows where he's going and how much it costs.

Unfortunately some of the drivers are not friendly enough. And here lies that problem. There are several routes I have done this on and the drivers have been more than helpful about it. And that is how they all should be.

However upon boarding three different routes in the last few months asking if a bus goes to a particular place, or a particular fare, they have said "No, the bus does not go there" when it actually does as I later find out or "Why do you ask me? I'm not a timetable" and "If you want information, don't ask me, I just drive the bus"

Unfortunately this blights many parts of Dublin Bus. As I said previously there are some wonderful drivers in Dublin Bus, and they really do care about their customers and see it as a public service and actually like their job as they like working with people and are more than helpful and can hold a conversation. And there are others, who call the passengers skulls, say as little as possible and even one who once said to me "A Happy bus is an empty bus" these let the company down.

shltter

Unregistered. wrote: »

Actually, maybe it's worth pointing this out, as to what "type of bus driver he was" -

Do you know when two buses come, and the one behind tries to sneak off? Well he was on of them drivers!

*I am really finicky about buses, e.g, if two buses come, i get on the one with least amount of people, or if an old one and a new one come together, I have to get on the new one. etc..*
So @ Pearse Street, two buses came at once, and i ran down to get this one before he overtook the first one. I was the only person to get on there, but it only had a few people on at this stage.
However, passengers @ Trinity College stop were not so lucky! He thought his bus was out of view and overtook the bus in front, even though there were passengers coming down to get it!!!!
he was like that a most if the stops, not pulling in until he had to, almost trying to avoid picking people up.

And did i mention it was raining yesterday?

See did you ever stop to think that in doing that you held up the second bus for NO reason
You could have traveled on the first bus but you decided that wasn't good enough for you.
BTW it is not sneaking off it is working the road together he clears that stop the next one is cleared by the second bus rather than both buses being held up at each stop they only stop half the time.
If people at a stop want both buses then they both stop (as the 56A did for you) but having stopped the bus you paid a fare that would only take you as far as you could have traveled on the other bus.

The lazy way is to sit behind the bus in front and let that one carry the load this guy was trying to speed things up and get people home as quickly as possible.
But that didn't suit you No you want to slow everything down stop a bus you don't need to stop make the journey time longer for the rest of the passengers and then you have the bare faced cheek to not even bother paying your correct fare.

Fair play to the driver on the 56A I would have done the exact same thing to you.
Next time use your head and if you insist on stopping a bus for no apparent reason ( it looks newer you like the ads on the side)make sure you have the right fare.

Ckal

I've given up on the buses in Dublin. I know some of the drivers are nice, but I'm sick of getting my head bitten off when I ask what the fare is.

I just walk now...

dfx-

shltter wrote: »

See did you ever stop to think that in doing that you held up the second bus for NO reason
You could have traveled on the first bus but you decided that wasn't good enough for you.
BTW it is not sneaking off it is working the road together he clears that stop the next one is cleared by the second bus rather than both buses being held up at each stop they only stop half the time.
If people at a stop want both buses then they both stop (as the 56A did for you) but having stopped the bus you paid a fare that would only take you as far as you could have traveled on the other bus.

The lazy way is to sit behind the bus in front and let that one carry the load this guy was trying to speed things up and get people home as quickly as possible.
But that didn't suit you No you want to slow everything down stop a bus you don't need to stop make the journey time longer for the rest of the passengers and then you have the bare faced cheek to not even bother paying your correct fare.

Fair play to the driver on the 56A I would have done the exact same thing to you.
Next time use your head and if you insist on stopping a bus for no apparent reason ( it looks newer you like the ads on the side)make sure you have the right fare.

I really can't believe that tripe is being used as some kind of karma for being thrown off. What bus he stops has nothing to do with it. FFS.

How's about the numerous times outside Pearse Station, a 77 or 77A has been at the stop and my 56A which I need beyond Walkinstown decides to do this crap and skip stops...leaving three passengers waiting another 35 minutes for the next one or hoping it turns up?

shltter

dfx- wrote: »

I really can't believe that tripe is being used as karma for being thrown off. What bus he stops has nothing to do with it. FFS.

How's about the numerous times outside Pearse Station, a 77 or 77A has been at the stop and my 56A which I need beyond Walkinstown decides to do this crap and skip stops...leaving three passengers waiting another 35 minutes for the next one or hoping it turns up?

Utter rubbish.

The reason for being thrown off is because he did not pay the correct fare what brought it to the drivers attention was he stopped the bus when one at the stop would take him to the same place for that fare thus slowing 2 buses because he is "finicky". He is entitled to get on which ever bus he wants but he is only entitled to stay as long as his fare is valid.

If you signal the bus clearly and in good time it should stop end of story however if there is room on the 77 or 77a and you were not travelling past walkinstown then you should let the bus go as it will speed up everyones journey including your own.

If you do signal the bus and stop it for no good reason when a bus that could take you is already stopped then make sure you pay the correct fare.

spareman

Ckal wrote: »

I've given up on the buses in Dublin. I know some of the drivers are nice, but I'm sick of getting my head bitten off when I ask what the fare is.

I just walk now...

Perfect example here of what I'm talking about,
I think we have established that op was in the wrong by not having a valid ticket for his journey, But he has given the opportunity for people like ckal here to vent his hatred for all things dublin bus by starting this thread.

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

Unregistered.

spareman wrote: »

But you still had no valid ticket to travel any further

Does not excuse his behaviour in my mind.

spareman wrote: »

Look if I walk into a shop pick up a Herald €1.20, hand over a euro and walk out of the shop, do you think the shop keeper's behaviour would be any less than the bus driver's?

I'm sure they would accept the 20cent(or indeed, anothoer euro) for it afterwards! [/quote]
O/T - but you're entitled to bargin in anyshop anywhere. Nobody* does. but you can.

spareman wrote: »

YOU DID NOT HAVE A VALID TICKET TO TRAVEL.
Therefore I believe you have no grounds to complain, you should not have been on the bus.

He would not accept the 20cent as part of an extension ticket, nor accpet another fare, so how should i not have been on the bus? Because he was being mean, impolite and discourtious?

*i know one guys that does, and has seen success through haggling.

Tayto2000

Unregistered. wrote: »

I'm sure they would accept the 20cent(or indeed, anothoer euro) for it afterwards!

No. Once you've been caught like that, it's shoplifting. The price for getting caught shoplifting is prosecution, you don't get away with paying for what you were trying to steal, unless you can convince the person that it was a genuine mistake. You didn't seem to be able to convince the driver that this was the case in the incident you described. As mentioned by others, might attitude have played a part?

It's the same with fare evasion, once you've been caught for fare evasion and told to leave the bus or slapped with the fixed fare penalty, you don't get off the hook by offering to pay at that point, it's too late.

shltter

Unregistered. wrote: »

Does not excuse his behaviour in my mind.

And what about your own behaviour (refusing to leave the bus, Arguing with the driver) Anyone who has ever seen someone caught shoplifting will recognise a common tactic of arguing and shouting hoping to embarrass the company representative to back down.

Unregistered. wrote: »

I'm sure they would accept the 20cent(or indeed, anothoer euro) for it afterwards!

O/T - but you're entitled to bargin in anyshop anywhere. Nobody* does. but you can.[/QUOTE]

Try it tomorrow and let us know how you get on

BTW you were not trying to bargain you had already decided to steal from Dublin Bus. Bargaining would be if you approached the driver and explained you only had €1.50

Unregistered. wrote: »

He would not accept the 20cent as part of an extension ticket, nor accpet another fare, so how should i not have been on the bus? Because he was being mean, impolite and discourtious?

You were caught evading your fare you failed to convince the driver that this was a genuine mistake he does not have to accept anything from you once he has requested you leave the bus.
You want it all your own way pay a lower fare and if you get caught stump up the extra in that case there is no risk and no disincentive to you continuing your to evade your fare.
This way you will perhaps think twice about dodging your fare in the future and it may act to discourage others who witnessed you make a show of your self from doing the same thing.

Unbelievable that you were caught stealing and your complaint is that the guy who caught you was not nice enough to you.
Shoplifters of the world unite.

Profiler

AlekSmart wrote: »

Profiler,good on ye !



It`s very simple really Home Farm Road Stage 20 to O Connell St Stage 25 = 5 Stages = €1.50.

No mystery....Thats why,as the signs in the chippers say,Please check your change before leaving.

Indeed it is quite simple... and yet some drivers keep getting it wrong

I pointed out once that Home Farm road to O'Connell Street was a €1.50 fare and was advised very rudely not to tell the driver how to do his job.

As the bus pretty much takes me from my front door to the front door of the office I decided that arguing toss with a driver on average once a month just is not worth the hassle... 50 cents compare to all that hassle... I say let Dublin Bus have the extra 50 cent a month ...or €6 per year...

Ckal

spareman wrote: »

Perfect example here of what I'm talking about,
I think we have established that op was in the wrong by not having a valid ticket for his journey, But he has given the opportunity for people like ckal here to vent his hatred for all things dublin bus by starting this thread.

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

Vent my hatred? You're the one having the hissy fit.

I said that I walk because I'm afraid of getting my head bitten off again by the drivers that are not so pleasant. I don't hate all Dublin Bus drivers. I just have a problem with some drivers who are impatient.

But I guess I can't even post that without somebody lunging at me. Back off.

HydeRoad

spareman wrote: »

Perfect example here of what I'm talking about,
I think we have established that op was in the wrong by not having a valid ticket for his journey, But he has given the opportunity for people like ckal here to vent his hatred for all things dublin bus by starting this thread.

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

Most of the people criticising the bus driver here, are tempering their argument by saying that most of the drivers are hard working and decent employees. I was one once myself.

The problem stems from the fact that there is a small, hardcore band of drivers who act objectionably towards every facet of customer service and professional image. The other problem is that Dublin Bus seem powerless as an organisation to visit any kind of discipline on those drivers.

I am all for union fought fair working conditions, but those decent working conditions should go hand in hand with a commitment to the employer and the customer, and it is a small band of drivers who are bringing down all the good efforts of the majority, resulting in blanket attitudes of apathy by too many fare paying customers.

Fare disputes like the OP's happen on a daily basis, sometimes through simple ignorance of an unwieldy and user unfriendly system, and sometimes deliberately so. If a driver cannot maintain professionalism faced with these daily occurences, then he should be employed elsewhere.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

Every time someone mentions Dublin bus on here the hater's row in behind and back them to the hilt regardless of the situation, Here we have a fare evader being backed by the majority of posters, next week they will all be debating how dublin bus rips off tax payers by receiving subvention. ah well I guess ya can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

That's at least the third mention of 'bus haters' in this thread. Who are these mysterious haters? Are they a shadowy bunch of people who meet in secret to plot the downfall of Dublin Bus, or are they perhaps just ordinary commuters who after years of suffering shoddy treatment by bus drivers can sympathise with a customer facing another instance of a driver behaving like a tool.

I could equally comment on the number of DB drivers taking the driver's side, it's natural since that's the side they're more familiar with. Perhaps you'd be OK with me referring to you as 'commuter haters'?

shltter wrote:

You were caught evading your fare you failed to convince the driver that this was a genuine mistake he does not have to accept anything from you once he has requested you leave the bus.
You want it all your own way pay a lower fare and if you get caught stump up the extra in that case there is no risk and no disincentive to you continuing your to evade your fare.
This way you will perhaps think twice about dodging your fare in the future and it may act to discourage others who witnessed you make a show of your self from doing the same thing.

Unbelievable that you were caught stealing and your complaint is that the guy who caught you was not nice enough to you.
Shoplifters of the world unite.

Where exactly is the fare evasion here anyway? The driver stopped at the 1.50 limit, which is where the OP had paid to. The OP was then asked to leave the bus, which he didn't. He offered to pay the difference or get a new ticket, which the driver refused.

If the driver had just announced Dolphin's Barn, then carried on and stopped at the next stop and caused this scene, then the OP would have travelled further than he had paid for. But as it was, I don't see any fare evasion.

By this logic, if I get on a bus thinking the fare is 1.50, travel to the 1.50 limit, and realise I want to go further, there's no point in me approaching the driver and asking to pay the difference or buy a new ticket, because I'm likely to be treated as a 'fare evader' and kicked off the bus.

Cully

I'm not a dublin bus hater, nor am I a troublemaker (or have ever caused trouble on a bus)....

I bought a bicycle a couple of years ago because of exactly trouble like the OPs... I never knew what far to pay because I take different routes and different amount of stages, so I always ask "how much to .....". The bus driver complains then when I spend an extra 10 seconds rummaging for change. How am I supposed to know how many stages to where I'm going if the timetable is ripped down? Quite often there is no information in the right places saying that 3 stages = €1, 5 stages = €1.30 or whatever it is now.

If I was confronted like the OP, I would just have walked off, because I'm too introverted to cause a scene... whether I'm right or wrong. This is quite a common Irish attitude and you might have seen the adverts recently asking people to complain if something is not right. This is a prime example, but I think the OP should have taken it up properly by contacting the complaints department.

I bought bicycle gear and expensive raingear, so now I have no problems. I take the luas any time I want to go home, and while it does have it's problems, I don't find it half as bad as the hassle I have with buses.

Gavin

I cycle because I like to cycle. When I get the bus, I don't know the fare. I tell the busman where I'm going, busman says X and I pay X. As I'm getting onto a bus to go somewhere, I know I will need change, so I have a range of change in my hand, ready for whatever cost it might be. I certainly wouldn't stop getting a bus for fear of a rebuke from a bus driver, that really is just a bizarre complaint.

In reference to OP, I think he was in the wrong. He should have left the bus when asked. The bus driver was an idiot if he actually grinned at him when driving away.