Arrogant car salesmen

VanhireBoys

Id hold on to the Skoda as well... Take your chance and drive it on...!
Theres an Octavia taxi about here with 275k MILES on it and still going well ....!

Dont go for a boring horrible c**t of a Toyota. If I see another ugly silver Avensis I'm gonna scream..... Theres another... Jaysus...!

That salesman will be out of a job soon anyway... What a p***k

bostoncommon

The golden rule for buying a car is that "You buy to sell".
That Skoda is so ugly. You cant give them away. Nobody wants them. If a salesman takes one of them in and say makes €1000 profit and gets his commission 10/20% of total comm. = €100/200 if the car is still on the forecourt in 6 months time he will be hit with a clawback and it will end up costing him more than the commission the he earned in the first place. why would he take it in? He was right.

-Chris-

galwaytt wrote: »

You're quite right of course - the salesman (sic) was an ass, and there's no call for that...........

Definitely. That was inappropriate and unprofessional.

Darragh29 wrote: »

A guy I know in sales told me only today that they have been instructed to not take in any trade in's, not even from current customers (folks who bought a new car from this outlet within the last 2-3 years), because they can't shift what is already on the forecourt.

The instructions I have at the moment are not to trade-in or value any 07s or 08s.
There's no appetite for those cars in the current used market, and to price them at a level where they'll sell usually results in a conversation along the lines of:
Customer - "I'd like a value for my 07/08 car please"
Me - "no problem, we'd be offering you €x for your car as a trade-in"
Customer - "€x??? Are you joking? My car's worth FAR more than that!!"
Me - "actually (and with all due respect), in the current market, based on current circumstances, no it's not."
Customer - "I've been a loyal customer with your garage for years, Audi have always had good trade-in values. I'm shocked at this value and I won't be dealing here again"
Net result - customer is lost forever.

If you respectfully refuse to value a trade in because their car is a car you can't re-sell at the moment, you may annoy the customer, but you're not as likely to lose them.
Of course, some people don't take no for an answer, and then you have to go through the whole rigmarole of assessing and valuing the car only to have the conversation above. Very frustrating.

-Chris-

bostoncommon wrote: »

The golden rule for buying a car is that "You buy to sell".
That Skoda is so ugly. You cant give them away. Nobody wants them. If a salesman takes one of them in and say makes €1000 profit and gets his commission 10/20% of total comm. = €100/200 if the car is still on the forecourt in 6 months time he will be hit with a clawback and it will end up costing him more than the commission the he earned in the first place. why would he take it in? He was right.

He was right in what he did, he was wrong in the way he did it.

bostoncommon

There is no nice way to tell a customer that the 07 car has no value?

TheDriver

I presume its the "K" toyota garage and unfortunately are known for not always caring about the average customer even in the best of times.

unkel

AudiChris wrote: »

Very frustrating.

I can only imagine. That must be way worse than actually selling fewer cars itself.

old boy

how are all these dealerships believeing, that they can continue to survive selling new cars only, in the current economic climate, but then i am a bangermobile addict.

Darragh29

AudiChris wrote: »

Definitely. That was inappropriate and unprofessional.




The instructions I have at the moment are not to trade-in or value any 07s or 08s.
There's no appetite for those cars in the current used market, and to price them at a level where they'll sell usually results in a conversation along the lines of:
Customer - "I'd like a value for my 07/08 car please"
Me - "no problem, we'd be offering you €x for your car as a trade-in"
Customer - "€x??? Are you joking? My car's worth FAR more than that!!"
Me - "actually (and with all due respect), in the current market, based on current circumstances, no it's not."
Customer - "I've been a loyal customer with your garage for years, Audi have always had good trade-in values. I'm shocked at this value and I won't be dealing here again"
Net result - customer is lost forever.

If you respectfully refuse to value a trade in because their car is a car you can't re-sell at the moment, you may annoy the customer, but you're not as likely to lose them.
Of course, some people don't take no for an answer, and then you have to go through the whole rigmarole of assessing and valuing the car only to have the conversation above. Very frustrating.

I've a mate in the same job as you Chris and he told me the exact same thing yesterday. No trade in's, even for well known customers, because they know now that they won't be able to shift the trade in if they take it.

Like your own situation, he has been told not to even value a car for a customer because it's only setting yourself up for a big argument along the very same lines as you've mentioned above.

The thing is, what possible outcomes are there for this situation, which looks like a stand off at the moment???

Will it be:

(1) One by one, dealerships and independent sales operations go out of business as banks call in loans and working capital runs out?

(2) Something will happen on the purchasing side, I don't see how, but there will be a new wave of buyers for second hand cars coming into the market. Maybe if the government incentivised the sale of this category of vehicle with a special once off tax for a year, this might get these cars moved off forecourts, but at the same time, these cars are available for cheaper privately and at auction, so market forces might negate any government iniative to get the industry moving again, and in any event, we are unlikely to see any government action to fix this...

One thing is clear though, the SIMI approach to date, pestering the government about UK/NI imports and the VRT avoidance on these vehicles and lack of enforcement, is absolutely petty and completely misfocused. This is like someone who is having a heart attack, asking you for a plaster.

E92

mumhaabu wrote: »

Typical Toyota attitude and unfortunate buyers get stung constant. Toyota's are bland ugly and undesirable. To trade in a Skoda for one in my books is madness. If you want reliabity stick to the Skoda or upgrade to it's big brother VW.

Toyota dealers are generally one of the best, but you meet bad dealers no matter what brand you go and visit.

I agree that changing the Roomster for trivial problems(assuming the dealer has fixed the mechanical ones) is completely OTT.

They might well be bland, but you're 100% wrong if you think they are undesirable, at least in the minds of the ordinary person who thinks of cars as devices for moving you from A to B. If you're the type of person who has low expectations of what a car can do for you and just want it to go from A to B with the minimum of trouble and be cheap to run then a Toyota delivers what you want in spades.

Toyotas have fantastic resale value, better than even the premium makes, and that was in the good times when BMWs, Audis etc held their value extremely well.

Toyota are the number 1 brand in the country, and have been for many years, they're certainly not going to lose a night's sleep if they miss out on one sale here and there because they could be taking in something like a Roomster which depreciates fairly heavily. They can well afford to pick and choose what they want to take in, and they know that nobody will care because most Toyota buyers don't even consider anything else.

It's also true to say that they don't make Toyotas like they used to either, indeed Japanese engineering isn't what most people think it is either but Toyotas are still better than most makes, though Skodas are usually very good for reliability as well(better than their VW stablemates believe it or not).

The best bet for the OP is a Honda or a Mazda(as long as you avoid the 2.0 diesel), their cars have an enviable reputation for reliability, and because Mazdas don't have the reputation Toyotas have they'll be much cheaper to buy as well, but the best bit of all is that as well as being more reliable than Toyotas, they are far superior cars in terms of the way they drive too, not to mention cheap to buy used.

I think Mazdas are seriously underrated, and it's the option I'd be suggesting if the OP absolutely *has* to change his/her car.

Keeping the Skoda would be the cheapest and by far the best option though.

Anan1

Darragh29 wrote: »

The thing is, what possible outcomes are there for this situation, which looks like a stand off at the moment???

Will it be:

(1) One by one, dealerships and independent sales operations go out of business as banks call in loans and working capital runs out?

(2) Something will happen on the purchasing side, I don't see how, but there will be a new wave of buyers for second hand cars coming into the market. Maybe if the government incentivised the sale of this category of vehicle with a special once off tax for a year, this might get these cars moved off forecourts, but at the same time, these cars are available for cheaper privately and at auction, so market forces might negate any government iniative to get the industry moving again, and in any event, we are unlikely to see any government action to fix this...

Some dealerships will doubtless go to the wall. The ones with the wit to liquidate their stock now, rather than fiddling while Rome burns, are more likely to be able to absorb their losses and survive. Either way, a dose of reality is long overdue.

-Chris-

old boy wrote: »

how are all these dealerships believeing, that they can continue to survive selling new cars only, in the current economic climate, but then i am a bangermobile addict.

It's not that we believe we'll survive selling new cars only, it's that we know we won't survive taking trade-ins at values customers historically expect.
If the customer lowers their trade-in price expectation appropriately, I'll sell them cars all day and will happily take their trade-in. If not, then there's nothing I can do for them.

Darragh29 wrote: »

The thing is, what possible outcomes are there for this situation, which looks like a stand off at the moment???

Will it be:

(1) One by one, dealerships and independent sales operations go out of business as banks call in loans and working capital runs out?

(2) Something will happen on the purchasing side, I don't see how, but there will be a new wave of buyers for second hand cars coming into the market. Maybe if the government incentivised the sale of this category of vehicle with a special once off tax for a year, this might get these cars moved off forecourts, but at the same time, these cars are available for cheaper privately and at auction, so market forces might negate any government iniative to get the industry moving again, and in any event, we are unlikely to see any government action to fix this...

I think 1 is the most likely. I don't see the gov't stepping in to incentivise used car sales - it would be anti-competitive against UK imports and would probably be deemed illegal.

Ultimately customers will have to revise their expectations of price for their current car and adapt their buying behaviour based on that.
It's just like the neighbours down your road who have had a "For Sale" sign in the front garden for the last 12 months. Times have changed, people aren't going to give you €700k for that house. Either price it to meet the market or don't sell it.

The two biggest issues I see at the moment (and again, it's a microcosm of the housing market) are negative equity and lack of credit.

In the negative equity example where someone's car was worth €22k in June and is worth €15k now, it's impossible for me to sell them a car due to the fact that they owe the bank €20k and therefore will never accept anything less than that for their car. This is happening all the time.

As for the lack of credit, if the banks won't lend the money, noone'll buy anything! Very few people have been savers over the last few years - the SSIAs were splurged with gusto. If the banks won't lend the money, then there'll be no money to be spent.

Darragh29 wrote: »

One thing is clear though, the SIMI approach to date, pestering the government about UK/NI imports and the VRT avoidance on these vehicles and lack of enforcement, is absolutely petty and completely misfocused. This is like someone who is having a heart attack, asking you for a plaster.

I think the SIMI have been pretty ineffectual in this whole thing, as have the dealers themselves. I'm not privy to the behind-the-scenes negotiations that went on in the first half of this year, so I'm not sure how much ground the SIMI held, but I think the total lack of communicaion and transparancy over the VRT change was the biggest factor in the change in demand.
All you're seeing now is last-gasp attempts to hobble the competition. It's like if you ran a shop and your neighbouring shop was beating you on price, you should try to compete on product or price.
The SIMI mentality seems to be that it's better competition to just let the air out of the tyres of their delivery van in the middle of the night rather than face them head on.

sofia11

Hello and thank you all for a very interesting debate. Just to clarify we were just window shopping and not BUYING any thing. All we wanted was a PRICE. We didn't even get a price or some sort of explanation, Ok we might not be happy with the price but at least it would have been more professional. I'm happy with my Roomy, theres's no law against asking is there? Not everybody who goes into a garage buys a car.
As some of you have kindly explained that dealerships aren't taking trade ins, surely now that we are bombarded by ads for new cars on TV and papers it should read in the T&C that non car owners only need apply!!!!:p

Owen

Which garage was it Sofia?

bostoncommon

sofia11 wrote: »

Hello and thank you all for a very interesting debate. Just to clarify we were just window shopping and not BUYING any thing. All we wanted was a PRICE. We didn't even get a price or some sort of explanation, Ok we might not be happy with the price but at least it would have been more professional. I'm happy with my Roomy, theres's no law against asking is there? Not everybody who goes into a garage buys a car.
As some of you have kindly explained that dealerships aren't taking trade ins, surely now that we are bombarded by ads for new cars on TV and papers it should read in the T&C that non car owners only need apply!!!!:p

Well done. On wasting someones time. Maybe he knew you had no interest in buying a car. How could you be happy with that ugly van. He was dead right. Only looking for a price? Bullsh1t.

L-M

bostoncommon wrote: »

Well done. On wasting someones time. Maybe he knew you had no interest in buying a car. How could you be happy with that ugly van. He was dead right. Only looking for a price? Bullsh1t.

Alot of people that come into me i can sense they aren't in anyway interested. But i still go through the whole procedure.
My mother went in and was literally led into buying a car. She was only window shopping. You might go into a shop and look to buy something, and ask someone about it, just out curiousity.

What a completely useless post.

-Chris-

bostoncommon wrote: »

Well done. On wasting someones time. Maybe he knew you had no interest in buying a car. How could you be happy with that ugly van. He was dead right. Only looking for a price? Bullsh1t.

That's completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

If I'm honest, as a car salesperson, tyre-kickers annoy me; and coming in to ask me for a value on a car when you've absolutely no intention of buying a new car is tantamount to wasting my time.
Would you ask a builder out to your house to price an extension that you had no intention of getting built?

But whatever I think, I consider myself relatively professional, and I would never think it acceptable to treat a customer in the manner described by the OP.

bazz26

What I cannot understand is that from experience of visiting numerouse dealers over the last couple of months looking at used cars I may be interested in buying, I have noticed that in each and every case the theme I am getting pointed out to me is that my car has suffered from hurendous depreciation yet the used cars these big fancy dealerships are trying to sell seem to be somewhat immun to hurendous depreciation. Anyway I have decided to keep what I have for the moment and get value from the car, will probably sell privately when the used market settles. I doubt though I will every buy from a dealership again.

I do understand that people need to be realistic about the prices of their trade-ins but alot of dealers out there who think they can ride the storm out also need a dose of reality.

knifey_spoonie

I would be suprised if i was any of the Toyota Dealer with the K in the name, From what i believe it would not be them, i would imagine that if that type of attitude was taken by a saleman they would not be there to much longer.

Just bringing this up in work and it was considered to be a sackable offence, To be honest i cant believe that they were that unprofesional, Knowing the attitude of most toyota Dealer Principals, if the person was named and shamed they would leaving work the next day minus two testicles .

It is true that you car would not be the most desirable trade in in the world, but if you do want a toyota avensis, do go back to a different dealer, you will get to talk to someone with a decent head on their shoulders and who will give you a cost to change, but dont expect one in 10 minutes, It could be the new year.

I know garages are only just now starting to give cost to change figures now, and that is only for a select few cars

With regards to Toyotas build quality, it aint what it used to be, but it is still good, and when things do go wrong you are with the best dealer network in the country.

If you were coming into me i would more than lightly advise you to keep your own car, you still have warranty, and come the following year the market will have setteled down, and you will get a much better cost to change

-Chris-

bazz26 wrote: »

What I cannot understand is that from experience of visiting numerouse dealers over the last couple of months looking at used cars I may be interested in buying, I have noticed that in each and every case the theme I am getting pointed out to me is that my car has suffered from hurendous depreciation yet the used cars these big fancy dealerships are trying to sell seem to be somewhat immun to hurendous depreciation.

That's part of the game though, the car you're trading in is never as desirable as the car you're (supposed to be) buying.
One of the tricks of the salesperson's toolkit is to assess the trade-in with the customer next to you, subtly pointing out each ding and scratch. It's supposed to reinforce the idea that their car is old and requiring replacement.
Also, after test-driving the new car, make sure to park it next to the trade-in so that the customer can see their "old banger" next to their "shiny new motor".

It's just the same as the customer who was on a test-drive with me today - they spent the entire drive talking about how badly sales were going, how much pressure salespeople were under and how the car they were in had too high of a spec for them.
They still bought the car from me, but they were psychologically trying to gain the upper hand in the negotiation.

The same philosophy also applies for buying a car privately - make sure to walk around it and point out everything that's wrong with it and pretend like you don't really want it, otherwise the seller may sense that you really like it and take advantage of you...

bazz26 wrote: »

I do understand that people need to be realistic about the prices of their trade-ins but alot of dealers out there who think they can ride the storm out also need a dose of reality.

Absolutely, and those that can be realistic while minimising losses will be the ones that will still be in business in a years time.

Hotwheels

Just go else where ! I did Went up the country to buy my first 159, and again this year...Will do the same again next time...

Costs nothing to be nice to folks, even if you know they are wasting your time...

Aldee84

sofia11 wrote: »

We just visited a Toyota dealership today in Co Cork enquiring about a new Toyota. If garages have decided not to take trade-ins thats fine just tell us that, but to treat us like a s**t is uncalled for. Yes we did have a year old Skoda but they better remember they have made their millions from all of you people, the customers parting with your hard earned money. Obviously they are well cushioned by all the profits of the last 10+ years. Perhaps we are the only ones to be treated disrepectfully but we won't visit another garage without first checking if they are taking trade ins or not. It's a simple request. Yes we are very irritated:mad::mad:

I can totally agree. My mother has a 07 Ford Focus with not a scratch on it and we went into Ford in Airside Swords to get a price for a 09 in January and the arrogant salesman was not one bit interested in speaking to us or even taking our details to price the car at later stage. Went across to Volkswagen and they will not look at anyone either. I am 24 and have worked in 2 Peugeot dealerships in sales in the past and even if we could not price a vehicle we would always treat a customer with respect and take their details for further contact. I was disgusted by Ford especially as we barely said hello and was told they are not taking in 07 Ford Focus because they have too many of them in stock. Is this my problem they cannot sell their stock through their arrogance? I attended this dealer on a previous occasion for a car for myself and found them not one bit helpfull in any way but yet I do notice alot of cars around with their stickers in the back window and I dont know how

Ivan E

AudiChris wrote: »

The instructions I have at the moment are not to trade-in or value any 07s or 08s.
There's no appetite for those cars in the current used market, and to price them at a level where they'll sell usually results in a conversation along the lines of:
Customer - "I'd like a value for my 07/08 car please"
Me - "no problem, we'd be offering you €x for your car as a trade-in"
Customer - "€x??? Are you joking? My car's worth FAR more than that!!"
Me - "actually (and with all due respect), in the current market, based on current circumstances, no it's not."
Customer - "I've been a loyal customer with your garage for years, Audi have always had good trade-in values. I'm shocked at this value and I won't be dealing here again"
Net result - customer is lost forever.

If you respectfully refuse to value a trade in because their car is a car you can't re-sell at the moment, you may annoy the customer, but you're not as likely to lose them.
Of course, some people don't take no for an answer, and then you have to go through the whole rigmarole of assessing and valuing the car only to have the conversation above. Very frustrating.

The problem I see with this approach is that it isn't clear from the off that you're in a very difficult position in the first place. Instead it seems like you're taking the p*ss and then backtracking and excuse making.

Obviously if the customer understood the situation of the market then you wouldn't have to do this but unfortunately I think most don't. I certainly different until I started reading here.

I think if the customer is warned about how hard everything is before a price is given they won't be as likely to get so annoyed. I am reading so many threads in here where sales people are essentially shooting themselves in the foot with their behaviour. Instead of being honest about the situation and pointing outside to their stock and why they can't take in trade ins, they make up bulllsh*t excuses about not having keys or just plain laughing at the customer which is the case here.

Times are tough, they should be working harder to at least make a good impression rather than isolating the customer there and then. I recently contacted a garage about a car and wanted to see if they'd take my trade in and the money involved etc. It wasn't the price I hoped but I knew the situation and I have a good impression of the garage because they gave me the time of day and answered my query. Another garage didn't respond. So I'd deal with the first one but probably wouldn't ever bother again with the second one.

pm.

ninty9er wrote: »

The uncle has at least 10 08 Avensis in the showroom going nowhere. There's deals to be had on them. Expect to part with more than you expect, maybe up to €8k-€10k

8k to 10k for a 08 avensis ?

Funxy

Darragh29 wrote: »

The scariest thing about all of this is that there isn't a sign of a strategy to resolve this. There isn't even discussion of the need for a strategy to fix this...

This is definitly one of the best posts on boards in months.

copacetic

pm. wrote: »

8k to 10k for a 08 avensis ?

to change.

PhoenixRising

Can't the dealers be any more creative rather than turning away good customers because they don't want any more trade ins? I'd guess that 90% of potential new buyers are current car owners looking to trade. I can't believe that it's a good idea to exclude 90% of your potential customers by telling them you're not interested in doing business with them. Surely giving a customer a trade in price (even if it is way lower than the customers expectations) and doing a deal is better than doing no business at all. Can car dealerships really survive this economic crisis by selling only to cash buyers with no trade in?

I think they need to be a little more willing to do business with potential customers rather than turn them away.

MagicMarker

What exactly has the OP done about this? Apart from complain on the internet?

You can be damn sure a letter of complaint would be treated seriously by the manager of the dealership, the demeanor and professionalism of his/her salesmen if of the utmost importance to the business.

-Chris-

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Can't the dealers be any more creative rather than turning away good customers because they don't want any more trade ins? I'd guess that 90% of potential new buyers are current car owners looking to trade. I can't believe that it's a good idea to exclude 90% of your potential customers by telling them you're not interested in doing business with them. Surely giving a customer a trade in price (even if it is way lower than the customers expectations) and doing a deal is better than doing no business at all. Can car dealerships really survive this economic crisis by selling only to cash buyers with no trade in?

I think they need to be a little more willing to do business with potential customers rather than turn them away.

Based on what you know and what you've read in this thread, what would your solution to the current situation be?

corkandproud

knife_fighter wrote: »

I would be suprised if i was any of the Toyota Dealer with the K in the name, From what i believe it would not be them, i would imagine that if that type of attitude was taken by a saleman they would not be there to much longer.

Just bringing this up in work and it was considered to be a sackable offence, To be honest i cant believe that they were that unprofesional, Knowing the attitude of most toyota Dealer Principals, if the person was named and shamed they would leaving work the next day minus two testicles .

I'd be surprised if it wasn't Bill!