1080p via VGA

godtabh

Is it possible to get 1080p through VGA. Some places I read say yes some say no.

I dont have a HDMI xbox so what is my best option for 1080p?

savemejebus

Yes it's possible, my xbox is currently doing just that on my Dell 2407 monitor and looks the business. Imo it looks better, crisper and sharper, than 1080p over component (on my 1080ptv) which i was using before.

redtom

+1, same here on a Dell 2405

johnny_ultimate

Games are 1080p alright, but the real difference is in DVDs which look far better on VGA than over component.

godtabh

I've set the resolution to 1920x1080 but there doesnt seem to be much difference between my new 40 inch 1080p tv and my old 32 inch 720p tv.

was expecting a bit of a difference is all

savemejebus

well it could depend on 2 things

1) is the game native 1080p or upscaled to 1080p. If it's upscaled ther won't be as much difference as a native 1080p game (of which there aren't many - the labels on the back of games are pretty misleading).
2) how close are you sitting to the tv? You need to be pretty close to see the extra detail

godtabh

savemejebus wrote: »

well it could depend on 2 things

1) is the game native 1080p or upscaled to 1080p. If it's upscaled ther won't be as much difference as a native 1080p game (of which there aren't many - the labels on the back of games are pretty misleading).
2) how close are you sitting to the tv? You need to be pretty close to see the extra detail

Its Gears of War 2 and I'm about a 1.5m from the screen

savemejebus

I think GOW 2 is native 720p. I'm not 100% on it though.

J-blk

savemejebus wrote: »

I think GOW 2 is native 720p. I'm not 100% on it though.

I think you're right - I've got a DELL 2405FPW connected via VGA and when it's set to the full 1900 x 1200 resolution, I can see noticeable scan lines during any movement in GOW 2. Dropping the Xbox back to 1280 x 720 solves it completely so I'm guessing the game is outputting at 720p, because I don't have the same issue with other games...

godtabh

Ah I thought it was 1090p. I thought all new xbox games where?

savemejebus

I think there are very few xbox (or PS3 games for that matter) games that are native 1080p. It's what i said about the boxes being misleading. They list 1080p on the back but all that means is that the chip in the xbox will upscale them to 1080p.

godtabh

savemejebus wrote: »

I think there are very few xbox (or PS3 games for that matter) games that are native 1080p. It's what i said about the boxes being misleading. They list 1080p on the back but all that means is that the chip in the xbox will upscale them to 1080p.

Thats very misleading. So there is no point really in having a 1080p screen for Xbox 360 games?

Ri_Nollaig

kearnsr wrote: »

Thats very misleading. So there is no point really in having a 1080p screen for Xbox 360 games?

Im pretty sure very few games are even native 720p never mind 1080p

Flaccus

Most are 720p (1280x720), some are 1024x768 or 1024x600 and a handful are native 1080p (1920x1080) e.g. virtua tennis 3. For the 360 if you set your LCD to 1080P, the scalar on the Xbox will automically re-render the game at 1080P and output a 1080P signal. Sometimes it can make a slight improvement but not always. Generally I can't tell the difference between 720P and 1080P upscaled and I sit about 3 feet from a 32" Sony Bravia 1080P LCD. Also Xbox games arguably look better than the PS3 games when upscaled as the PS3 scalar only scales 1 way. Usually 1280x720 games get re-rendered at 968x1080 on PS3, and then stretched to 1080P. The Xbox has a far superior scalar in this regard and supports proper horizontal and vertical upscaling. At the end of the day I think neither machine has the power to render todays complex games at 1080P natively with any form of Anti Aliasing so that they are playable with decent framrates. So a 720P TV is definitely good enough if it can be got much cheaper than an equivlalent sized 1080P set.

ROC1977

Halo 3 for example was only 576p upscaled.

mossym

Flaccus wrote: »

So a 720P TV is definitely good enough if it can be got much cheaper than an equivlalent sized 1080P set.

i doubt if anyone can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 32" tv.you'll find people on here that will argue that at 32" you won't even see the difference between HD and SD. i don't agree with that for a minute. but i do think there are very few, if any who can tell the difference in a blind test between 720p and 1080p @ 32" (tough to do as you'd need 2 seperate televisions)

anyway, with your 1080p if you don't set the xbox to 1080p, your tv is going to scale it anway, so you're not really telling the difference betweeen 720p and 1080p, only the differeence between the scaler in your tv over the scaler in the xbox.

and actually with my setup, for some sources i get a better picture having my reciever upscale to 1080p, then having the projector downscale to 720p, then just having the receiver or the projector scale to 720p on their own (I'm talking SD sources here). sounds wierd, but i go off topic, cuase that's not true with the 360. pretty easy too tell too on a 108" screen

Ri_Nollaig

mossym wrote: »

you'll find people on here that will argue that at 32" you won't even see the difference between HD and SD.

seriously anyone who cant tell the difference between SD/HD on a 32" is blind, and i mean that laterally

mossym

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

seriously anyone who cant tell the difference between SD/HD on a 32" is blind, and i mean that laterally

completely agree, but they do exist

ROC1977

from what I've read is the human eye can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a screen smaller than 50inch. On screen text is probably a different story, but for things like HD movies anything under 50inch screen 720p should do just fine.

Like the last couple of posts SD to HD even on a 15 inch screen is a massive difference. People who say there isn't should ask their guide dogs in future.

Flaccus

mossym wrote: »

i doubt if anyone can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 32" tv.

I can, when playing games anyway I play from 3 feet away in the bedroom and have my PC plugged in via HDMI to a 32" TV. Can definitely tell the difference between running Crysis Warhead at 1920x1200 (slighly more than 1080p), and 1280x1024 (slightly higher than 720p). Obviously because the game is made with high resolution textures in mind. With console games I can see no differerence between 720P and 1080P gaming for obvious reasons. In fact 720P games can sometimes look better if you don't force upscaling to 1080P (less blurry). Same with watching 720P v 1080P HD content. Regardless of how close I sit, can't really tell the difference. By comparison I also have a 65" LCD, and it's virtually the same story. Console gaming and 720P and 1080P HD content looks pretty much the same from normal viewing distances. Whereas PC gaming from 7-8 feet away, it's easy to spot the difference, as PC games are made to support different resolutions all the way up to 2500x1600. Console games are not. I know I'm off topic

mossym

Flaccus wrote: »

I can, when playing games anyway I play from 3 feet away in the bedroom and have my PC plugged in via HDMI to a 32" TV. Can definitely tell the difference between running Crysis Warhead at 1920x1200 (slighly more than 1080p), and 1280x1024 (slightly higher than 720p). Obviously because the game is made with high resolution textures in mind. With console games I can see no differerence between 720P and 1080P gaming for obvious reasons.

then all you're judging is your scaler, not 1080p vs 720p. everything you watch is 1080p either upscaled or native, so your're not comparing 1080p to 720p. you'd need two tv's identical in everything but the native resolution of the panels to judge 1080p or 720p. any other way you're only seeing how well your scaler performs with different resolutions. you cannot judge 720p vs 1080p on one tv, you only end up seeing the performance of the scaler.

ROC1977

lol I thought you'd get into this topic!!
Mossym in your expert opinion 32inch 1080p or 720p Tv. (same make except for native res).

I was always lead to believe that 1080p was only worth getting if the TV was over 50inch.

mossym

for the same price i'd take the 1080p, no point in not, but i'd say the 720p will always be cheaper, so i'd take teh 720p. (Actually, easiest way of saying is i'd take whatever is cheaper)

however, i would pay more for a 720p with excellent scaler than i would for a 1080p with mediocre scaler(At 32" that is). for 32" scaler will have much more impact than resolution

and i do my best to avoid these threads...i really do..but just when i think i'm out, they pull me back in..

ROC1977

I know what you mean about getting dragged into posts! lol
I see a lot of people who run out and get a 1080p 32inch tv for a couple of hundred euro more than the 720p version.
A friend of mine was talking about the new Sony 42inch 200hertz 1080p Tv in Savins. Said its like looking in a mirror. But I'd say thats down to the refresh rate more than the 1080p.

Flaccus

mossym wrote: »

then all you're judging is your scaler, not 1080p vs 720p. everything you watch is 1080p either upscaled or native, so your're not comparing 1080p to 720p. you'd need two tv's identical in everything but the native resolution of the panels to judge 1080p or 720p. any other way you're only seeing how well your scaler performs with different resolutions. you cannot judge 720p vs 1080p on one tv, you only end up seeing the performance of the scaler.

What's your point ?

Your reply above is to this :
"Can definitely tell the difference between running Crysis Warhead at 1920x1200 (slighly more than 1080p), and 1280x1024 (slightly higher than 720p). Obviously because the game is made with high resolution textures in mind. With console games I can see no differerence between 720p and 1080p gaming for obvious reasons."

Why does your reply rate a comment about scaling comparisons again ?

I am simply pointing out that with console games I cannnot really see much of a difference between 720p or 1080p because obviously most console games are written using 720P textures or even lower, and clearly scaling does not add any more detail whether the tv or console does it. Maybe the tv scalar is better, maybe the console scalar is better. I don't care. (Although I'd like to point out that the 360 can scale images during the original render so should be superior to anything your tv can do). Still, it won't add any more detail, it can't. While the opposite is true with PC games but not because of any scalar. At higher res like 1920, many PC games use an entirely different set of high res textures, and will look noticable better than their 720p counterparts. Again, of course the screen or the console will scale the 720p image to 1080p, but no more details is going to be added.

I really don't understand your post as a counterpoint to mine, other than point out that you need 2 TV's to judge 720p against 1080p. I think that's a fair point, which is why I looked at 720p and 1080p versions of the same TV side by side when I was buying mine for the bedroom/gaming. I'm anal like that

Y2J_MUFC

I've a Samsung 26" and I use 1080i. There is a massive difference in quality between playing FIFA in 720p and 1080i. I don't know what or why, but the different is massive. Perhaps its just the tv itself, but everyone who has seen it agrees with the massive difference in quality.

Not sure if anyone else finds this aswell? But 1080i leads to some motion blur, but because of the enormous difference in quality and the fact that my tv doesnt support 1080p, its my only option.

Ri_Nollaig

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

I've a Samsung 26" and I use 1080i. There is a massive difference in quality between playing FIFA in 720p and 1080i. I don't know what or why, but the different is massive. Perhaps its just the tv itself, but everyone who has seen it agrees with the massive difference in quality.

Not sure if anyone else finds this aswell? But 1080i leads to some motion blur, but because of the enormous difference in quality and the fact that my tv doesnt support 1080p, its my only option.

p or progressive would be much better for fast paced games like football games, so while it may look (staticly) better on 1080i you should really play with 720p to get the best overall quailty.

unless you already know, the reason is I or interlace only displays the odd/even halves of frames while progressive displays all the frames every second i.e. very little motion blur

mossym

Flaccus wrote: »

What's your point ?



I really don't understand your post as a counterpoint to mine, other than )

i'm guessing so you don't see my point. let me try and explain it better then.and it wasn't really a counterpoint, just a comment

i'd just have my doubts that what you are seeing is the difference between 720p and 1080p more than the effect of scaling. i;d still beleive the scaler is playing a bigger part there than the increased resolution, although no arguement about the higher res having different textures in pc. however, for example, neither of those resolutions are widescreen resolutions, or even the same for that matter. The scaler is going to have to erpform very different algorithms on thsoe to display them at 1920*1280. I'm not syaing you're wrong, just that i'd be more thinking the scaler than the increased resolution. On the 65" i'm sure the increased resolution makes a huge difference, but i bet the scaler still has a part to play

Flaccus

mossym - I agree with pretty much everything you are saying by the way. But on my 65" I can use 1:1 scaling so it's either displaying 720p with borders or 1080p with no borders. The scalar on the tv is not actually doing anything in this case. In this case with the PC differerences are obvious, I'm getting a 720p signal displayed as 720p and 1080p displayed as 1080p. Clearly the 1080p is better. However, as most of us agree when displaying the console games I can't see hardly any difference between 720p or 1080p (again with 1:1 mapping turned on) as the console games are 720p to begin with. Even if If I set my Xbox360 to output 1080p which cause the 360 to scale, the differences between the TV displaying 1080p (scaled by 360 from 720p), and 720p are marginal. What's also interesting is when I bought my 32" 1080P set I got the sales assistant to setup a 720P version side by side. The only reason I went for the 1080P version was because I sit like 3 feet from it, and pretty much wanted it for BD playback and hopefully some native 1080P console games. However I use it for PC mainly now.

mossym

Flaccus wrote: »

mossym - I agree with pretty much everything you are saying by the way. But on my 65" I can use 1:1 scaling so it's either displaying 720p with borders or 1080p with no borders. The scalar on the tv is not actually doing anything in this case. In this case with the PC differerences are obvious, I'm getting a 720p signal displayed as 720p and 1080p displayed as 1080p. .

Flaccus, agreed, if you use your tv in720p mode with black borders then you are seeing the extra resolution. too often though you see guys saying that oh 1080p looks so much better than 720p when in fact what they are seeing is the effects of their scaler. as i said, on a 65" tv extra resolution will make a big difference. on smaller tv's, 37" and below(not a rule just an example before someone else goes quoting me), i would expect the scaler to play a much bigger part in creating a difference between 720p and 1080p than the extra resolution would. (especially on a single tv..:) )

ROC1977

mossym wrote: »

Flaccus, agreed, if you use your tv in720p mode with black borders then you are seeing the extra resolution. too often though you see guys saying that oh 1080p looks so much better than 720p when in fact what they are seeing is the effects of their scaler. as i said, on a 65" tv extra resolution will make a big difference. on smaller tv's, 37" and below(not a rule just an example before someone else goes quoting me), i would expect the scaler to play a much bigger part in creating a difference between 720p and 1080p than the extra resolution would. (especially on a single tv..:) )

Roped into another HD TV topic! lol