Why would you vote Fianna Fail?

Lockstep

doonothing wrote: »

I didn't even mean it as an argument though, I really was just curious as to why he was getting so upset and borderline rude over it..

I don't think he was, it's the internet so tone is extremely hard to get across.

doonothing wrote: »

I said it was a 30 second search, not a thorough investigation and ranking of all his mistakes! And I never said he was "so terrible", just the lesser etc., etc...

So...a government that has ran this country into the ground with terrible public services compared to a guy getting the country a mugging took place in wrong?

doonothing

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I don't think he was, it's the internet so tone is extremely hard to get across.

Ah I know, it just sounded overly harsh, the whole "Clearly FF is a bunch of drunk drivers." bit especially... That wasn't my logic at all!

kickoutthejams wrote: »

So...a government that has ran this country into the ground with terrible public services compared to a guy getting the country a mugging took place in wrong?

Hey, as I said over and over again, it was a tiny example, not an all-encompassing argument, like I wasn't trying to convince anyone to change their opinion with that mugging thing, just trying to make a little point about Mr Kenny's character... I never said it was comparable to anything like that

Lockstep

doonothing wrote: »

Hey, as I said over and over again, it was a tiny example, not an all-encompassing argument, like I wasn't trying to convince anyone to change their opinion with that mugging thing, just trying to make a little point about Mr Kenny's character... I never said it was comparable to anything like that

I agree it was a little point.
So small in fact, that it has very little relevance.

Nehaxak

Never ceases to amaze me how Fianna Fail got in the last time anyway. I was then and am now more annoyed at the people of the country itself for voting them in.

Then again, as others have said, what is the alternative ?

Fine Gael ? No fcking thank you ! Sorry but still consider them traitors after our own short civil war. Couldn't care less what people think about that opinion either but it's true, they sided with the British establishment at the time, murdered and took part in murder of their fellow Irish people so nope, not a chance in hell of me ever voting for them.

Labour/Commies ? Nope, not a chance in hell here either, useless shower or smelly socialist hippies.

Greens ? Dead as the PD's after the next election, another bunch of useless bastards.

SF ? I probably would vote for them as a party as I think they could make a significant change to the country itself but their local candidates in my own area are useless and have done nothing so nope, no chance.

Spoil the vote time methinks, what a fcking waste of democracy.

el_tiddlero

ejmaztec wrote: »

If FG got elected, I would expect our local TD to get off his lazy ass and do something for a change, not just nip off the US to "persuade some Americans to invest in the area":rolleyes:, then come back a couple of weeks later with only a bag of duty-free and a sun-tan.

For years we had a FG TD in my consituency, his name was Michael Joe Cosgrave - he was found to be corrupt, taking money off Dunlop ya know. (unlike the 2 FF TD's in my constituency, who have never been accused of it)

Now we have another FG fool, Terence Flanagan - i met him once at the door, from the conversation we had I'd be amazed if he can tie his own shoelaces - oh yeah, and when he was given his chance to speak in the Dáil he plagarised some one else's speech - real brainpower there.

I'm not saying FF are perfect, but FG are really a pathetic collection of know-nothing ain't-never-beens with neither an idea or a coherent policy to their name, to suggest that they would fare any better than the current government is optimistic at best and criminally naieve at worst.

Lockstep

Nehaxak wrote: »

Labour/Commies ? Nope, not a chance in hell here either, useless shower or smelly socialist hippies.

I'm assuming by Commies you mean the Socialists or SWP.

Labour is extremely different to them. Social Democracy and all that.

Terry

House, less of the unsubstantiated claims about corruption please.

Nehaxak

betafrog wrote: »

Maybe its time this thread was locked?

Why ?

ShooterSF

Nehaxak wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me how Fianna Fail got in the last time anyway. I was then and am now more annoyed at the people of the country itself for voting them in.

Then again, as others have said, what is the alternative ?

Fine Gael ? No fcking thank you ! Sorry but still consider them traitors after our own short civil war. Couldn't care less what people think about that opinion either but it's true, they sided with the British establishment at the time, murdered and took part in murder of their fellow Irish people so nope, not a chance in hell of me ever voting for them.

Labour/Commies ? Nope, not a chance in hell here either, useless shower or smelly socialist hippies.

Greens ? Dead as the PD's after the next election, another bunch of useless bastards.

SF ? I probably would vote for them as a party as I think they could make a significant change to the country itself but their local candidates in my own area are useless and have done nothing so nope, no chance.

Spoil the vote time methinks, what a fcking waste of democracy.

Im not fond of FG either but this is one of the biggest problems in Irish politics today. People still vote based on civil war politics. Generation to generation vote FG or FF on no other basis and will never change their vote, therefore allowing the partys to do what they want knowing that their vote is secured.

Also, without getting into civil war debate maybe certain people knew that negotiating a republic meant we would always be getting something less and sent others to keep their own name clean. It's not as black and white as you paint it.

But again the bigger problem is if you give a party your vote based only on the actions of people long since dead or retired the current crop can get away with what they like...

Nehaxak

betafrog wrote: »

Too many angry people completely abstracting the thread from its original point....

People are entitled to their opinions and the angry opinions in some cases are very much both to be expected and mostly justified.

Any posts that went way off the mark were suitably moderated.

Don't see any justification myself to lock the thread.

Set sail for Fianna Fail...

Nehaxak

ShooterSF wrote: »

Im not fond of FG either but this is one of the biggest problems in Irish politics today. People still vote based on civil war politics. Generation to generation vote FG or FF on no other basis and will never change their vote, therefore allowing the partys to do what they want knowing that their vote is secured.

If Fine Gael were disbanded as a party political including it's name, then I might consider voting for the new party they might subsequently setup afterwards. Would be a significant step to change themselves and their past tainted and treacherous history and be seen as also a significant step to setting up a real alternative political party that could possibly be worth voting for.

I don't and never have voted first, second or third preference for Fianna Fail either myself but I would ALWAYS vote some preference for Fianna Fail even if their local politicians are shít, so at least my vote is not wasted and at the very least to make sure they get some of my vote if the candidates I do vote for, do not get elected. I do this purely because I would prefer my vote go to Fianna Fail than be wasted and otherwise the possibility of Fine Gael ever having the chance of getting into government again.
If Fine Gael did not exist I would not do this.

I'm not alone in those views or how and what way I vote either.

Disband Fine Gael, setup a new and realistic political offering for the future, leaving sordid history behind.

Some hope of that though yeah...

lmtduffy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

point of information
Irish parties are not right wing.

Shall we say the divide is clearer when we look at the Irish parties only.

micmclo wrote: »

Mother and child scheme?
Minister Noel Browne was a member of Clann na Poblachta. He joined Labour later but he certainly wasn't in Labour at the time

Actually he joined FF before he joined Labour, still want to claim him?

So did Michael d Higgins,
I think he’s working out okay.

Nehaxak wrote: »

what a fcking waste of democracy.

unless your gonna say what you want from a government that is exactly what you are, and unless you vote based on what ever party you think will do the best job running this country that is how you come across.
What happened in the past may have been grim, but they all had similar intentions, and they’ve been I think accomplished to satisfactory level.

Move on and "think of the children" of today

el_tiddlero wrote: »

I'm not saying FF are perfect, but FG are really a pathetic collection of know-nothing ain't-never-beens with neither an idea or a coherent policy to their name, to suggest that they would fare any better than the current government is optimistic at best and criminally naieve at worst.

honestly, the health service, the economy, the cancer vaccines, the medical card, the schools any party could do better now and more importantly could have done better in the past.

And to any one else out their sporting one line no alternative posts, care to elaborate what you want and how FF are doing the best at providing that?

el_tiddlero

lmtduffy wrote: »

any party could do better now and more importantly could have done better in the past.

the past is in the past - it's more important that a party show itself capable of performing in the future - Fine Gael as opposition have not shown any balls in proffering worthwhile intelligent policy anything, would that suddenly change if they were in government??

people say FF pissed away money from the boom - i say that money was spent eradicating our crippling national debt.
people say we have nothing to show for it, I say look at all those shiny roads that people in rural communities went up in arms to get. I say look at the public transport improvements that have been made (dart, commuter, luas, QBC - and that's just in dublin+surrounds)
People say it's not enough, well f*** me if you think FG are going to build us a world class public transport system in a time of recession in a single term (that's all they'll get if they do get in.) It takes at least 20-30 years to build a proper, intergrated public transport service - we're at what, year 11 or so??
The health service would be fine if people didn't go to A&E for a nosebleed - or if the admin staff that we're paying over the odds for would work anything other than 9 to 5.
The economy is in the sh!t for other reasons than "Dey took all our moneys." you want someone to blame for that, blame anyone who spent €500,000 of a 100% mortgage on a cardboard box somewhere in dublin 15.... or the idiots who lent them money that anyone could see was going to swallowed up as soon as everyone realised that cardboard boxes aren't worth half a million quid.
Greed, profiteering, and wilful ignorance on the part of business and the public made this crisis, and now everyone wants to blame the government, well guess what, they'll be the ones to get us out of it, and no one will even thank them - in fact, they're already being flayed for trying to dig us out of the hole we made ourselves.

in this country, we don't need a change of government, we need a change of public.

ejmaztec

el_tiddlero wrote: »

in this country, we don't need a change of government, we need a change of public.

Absolutely agree that there should be a change of public by their forgetting about voting for the local "dodgy dynasty" on historical grounds and allow themselves to see the big picture for a change. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen any time soon.

If it ever does happen, there will be a change of government.

An ex-GAA man trying to jump on to the EU gravy-train is a prime example of the small-minded crap that goes on this country.

lmtduffy

el_tiddlero wrote: »

the past is in the past - it's more important that a party show itself capable of performing in the future - Fine Gael as opposition have not shown any balls in proffering worthwhile intelligent policy anything, would that suddenly change if they were in government??

people say FF pissed away money from the boom - i say that money was spent eradicating our crippling national debt.
people say we have nothing to show for it, I say look at all those shiny roads that people in rural communities went up in arms to get. I say look at the public transport improvements that have been made (dart, commuter, luas, QBC - and that's just in dublin+surrounds)
People say it's not enough, well f*** me if you think FG are going to build us a world class public transport system in a time of recession in a single term (that's all they'll get if they do get in.) It takes at least 20-30 years to build a proper, intergrated public transport service - we're at what, year 11 or so??
The health service would be fine if people didn't go to A&E for a nosebleed - or if the admin staff that we're paying over the odds for would work anything other than 9 to 5.
The economy is in the sh!t for other reasons than "Dey took all our moneys." you want someone to blame for that, blame anyone who spent €500,000 of a 100% mortgage on a cardboard box somewhere in dublin 15.... or the idiots who lent them money that anyone could see was going to swallowed up as soon as everyone realised that cardboard boxes aren't worth half a million quid.
Greed, profiteering, and wilful ignorance on the part of business and the public made this crisis, and now everyone wants to blame the government, well guess what, they'll be the ones to get us out of it, and no one will even thank them - in fact, they're already being flayed for trying to dig us out of the hole we made ourselves.

in this country, we don't need a change of government, we need a change of public.

Okay there’s more than FG out there,
And I don’t know enough to argue their cause.

And what exactly is FF policy, invest in banks and pull back public services.
The past is in the past and believe it or not their not doing anything different in the present.

That national debt that they were eradicating is kina piling up again isnt it,
And I wonder who gathered up all that debt the first time too.
There has never been any serious or continuous investment in this countries welfare system and they insist on cutting it back to save money at a time when the public need it most.

Wow shiny new roads, cause they’ll keep us warm at night and above the breadline, thank you FF.(those road are probably a gift form the eu)

Okay how long have they been in government on/off? And they still cant develop a public transport system,
And all those improvements you pointed at that have been made “just in Dublin” sorry to point out that all the improvements made in public transport have only been made “just in Dublin”, yes about 20% of the population lives there that’s because it’s the only place with more than one method of public transport.

Yeh blame people for going to a&e for a nosebleed instead of going to their gp and paying €50, I don’t think chastising people for using public health services to look after their health does much for you. Sure thanks to FF their wont be any shortage of girls with cervical cancer in the next few years to clog up a&e.

Yes were paying people over the odds and expect them to work more hours than anyone else with little resources in our health service, guess whos in charge of our health service.

Trust me man there are plenty of people who didnt have an opportunity to buy any kind of a house and never will, and FF’s cutbacks are hitting them the most,

Greed profiteering and wilful ignorance are all components of the free market and its meant to be the governments job to govern these things and moderate the economy and they didn’t, the encouraged them,

Yeh its not the governments fault, its all the people they work for’s fault.

Nehaxak

...and most of those improvments with transport in Dublin have been done in South Dublin, where a lot of the Fianna Fail "elite" seem to live. Or is it just their second or third house they have up there in Foxrock...

Phototoxin

(dart, commuter, luas, QBC - and that's just in dublin+surrounds)

yes thats the problem its just dublin & surrounds. Irish public transport is a joke compared to the UK.

There were more train stations open near me 40 years ago than there are now.

brianthebard

Nehaxak wrote: »

If Fine Gael were disbanded as a party political including it's name, then I might consider voting for the new party they might subsequently setup afterwards. Would be a significant step to change themselves and their past tainted and treacherous history and be seen as also a significant step to setting up a real alternative political party that could possibly be worth voting for.

I don't and never have voted first, second or third preference for Fianna Fail either myself but I would ALWAYS vote some preference for Fianna Fail even if their local politicians are shít, so at least my vote is not wasted and at the very least to make sure they get some of my vote if the candidates I do vote for, do not get elected. I do this purely because I would prefer my vote go to Fianna Fail than be wasted and otherwise the possibility of Fine Gael ever having the chance of getting into government again.
If Fine Gael did not exist I would not do this.

I'm not alone in those views or how and what way I vote either.

Disband Fine Gael, setup a new and realistic political offering for the future, leaving sordid history behind.

Some hope of that though yeah...

Where the hell did you learn history? FG wasn't around during the civil war. What will disbanding and reforming under a different name do? You mentioned in another post that "they" were involved in killing fellow Irishmen-the anti treaty side wasn't???? It baffles me that people can have so little regard for how the country is run that they would suggest civil war politics is a valid reasoning for voting in 2008.

doonothing

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I agree it was a little point.
So small in fact, that it has very little relevance.

In your opinion buddy, it's certainly small, but its irrelevance is completely subjective...

Lockstep

doonothing wrote: »

In your opinion buddy, it's certainly small, but its irrelevance is completely subjective...

True, but I'd view it as extremely small minded for someone to pick up on such a minor mistake.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Enda Kenny but this pales to the state this country is in.

doonothing

kickoutthejams wrote: »

True, but I'd view it as extremely small minded for someone to pick up on such a minor mistake.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Enda Kenny but this pales to the state this country is in.

It does pale, it's just an example though. Would it not be more small minded to completely ignore "minor mistakes" (another objective opinion, I'd call it a minor deception, but that's just me!) rather than to at least be aware of them though?

Lockstep

doonothing wrote: »

It does pale, it's just an example though. Would it not be more small minded to completely ignore "minor mistakes" (another objective opinion, I'd call it a minor deception, but that's just me!) rather than to at least be aware of them though?

Yeah, it is a small example but I'm unsure why you posted this up.

Nothing wrong with pointing out minor deceptions (definetelt not the word I'd used as that would require a complete goal on his part to be seeking to mislead) but Brian said:

Brianthebard wrote:

Well why don't you go on past record? Because FG and labour win on those criteria and that's obviously something you don't want to acknowledge.

And you responded with

doonothing wrote:

It took 30 seconds to find this:
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...ing-85842.html

I would simply feel less comfortable with him running my country.

No need to be so condescending

I am completely baffled as to why you would use this as an example of why you feel less comfortable. If you feel uncomfortable with him running the country, surely you would have vastly more relevant and significant reasons.

doonothing

I'm well aware what I said, and you're basically just asking me to repeat myself again so I'm just not gonna bother. Actually I will:
30 second search, small example, just something I found which makes me uncomfortable with him as a leader, whether you agree with it or not, not a massively important point, nor did I ever say it was or try to compare it to anything else (even though you did and i repeatedly explain that it wasn't in comparison to any major points), I responded with that as opposed to more relevant and significant reasons because I think it says more about his personality than his policies, and I think personality is something I can't ignore in choosing a taoiseach.

Now can you please let it go!

Lockstep

doonothing wrote: »

I'm well aware what I said, and you're basically just asking me to repeat myself again so I'm just not gonna bother. Actually I will:
30 second search, small example, just something I found which makes me uncomfortable with him as a leader, whether you agree with it or not, not a massively important point, nor did I ever say it was or try to compare it to anything else (even though you did and i repeatedly explain that it wasn't in comparison to any major points), I responded with that as opposed to more relevant and significant reasons because I think it says more about his personality than his policies, and I think personality is something I can't ignore in choosing a taoiseach.

As I've repeatedly said, yout analogy is a fairly piss-poor statement which you keep trying to write off as "just a small example"
If such a small thing matters so much to you in a leader then I'm fairly surprised.

doonothing wrote: »

Now can you please let it go!

Takes two to tango mate.