Do we need a riot in Dublin to get the government to focus?

Permabear

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nhughes100

Well I put it to any poster on this board that if you went to your bank and were told your life savings were inaccessible you might be inclined to break something that you may not own.

However, what might make you feel better in the short term will have a detrimental affect in the long term. Look at the taxi drivers, on at least two occasions over 10 years ago they managed to barricade me and thousands of others in the city centre for their deregulation protests. It totally backfired, they lost most of their public support and now everything they protested for is gone. I myself only get a taxi as a matter of last resort, having never forgotten the totally beliggerent and ignorent banter that went on both days.

To me it's like the guy who never stops moaning when playing football, there's no point arguing with him, the best way to shut him up is to beat them. Don't just protest with the European elections or the council elections, vote them out when it matters - Decimate FF + the Greens at the next general election.

jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Agree "Building on success" was poor choice of words in this context...I know it wasn't donegallfella that orginally brought it into this topic.

I think OP has brought up interesting point here.
We as a people are too accomodating of our politicans.
Thye know we might sabre rattle but come next election how many will lose their covetted perks ?
People will continue to vote for Paddy "the stroke" Mullarkey, becuase he was good for the ould fellowand his pension, helped with the planning, or sure we always vote for him.
They never think that by voting for him, you are voting for the the party that will put the minister back in, that will allow the health service go to cr**.


Certain lobby groups (e.g farmers, teachers, pensioners), certain interest groups (e.g Cavan hospital) will protest, but the rest of us just sit back and affectively take it since their concern is not ours.
People that are not affected directly just brush it off and basically they don't care. It is the nimby principle and is really alive and well in this country.

There should literally have been riots on the streets years ago because of the way our health service has been run.
Look at the lists of people allowed to die needlessly, look at the wastage of money on things like PPARS, bonuses etc.
Instead what happens, we vote the same crowd back in, thus affectively endorsing their previous actions.
As someone often points out around here, we get the government we deserve.

BTW I have never voted FF, so you can't blame me [sitting on my high horse]

Jack Sheehan

Violence is not an option to take against a democratically elected government. Sorry but the argument ends there. You do not have the right to hold the elected representatives of the people to ransom because you dont think they are doing a good job. No one does.

seamus

Because attacking public servants just doing their job (the Gardai) and destroying private property is *exactly* what will get foreign investors banging down our doors.

shoegirl

I think we are a big part of the problem. WE elected these folks and I think the people who need to be kicked from Limerick to Wellington and back are the morons who repeatedly vote for particular parties on tribal lines, regardless of what damage is done by those parties. People have to learn that real world politics shouldn't vest on "favours" done or perceived to be done. We also need to learn how much damage corruption does and stop justifying it by voting back in those thrown out of their parties for clear breaches of trust.

If we don't learn that, or the 50% or so of the population who hasn't yet learned it won't, then we've nobody to blame but the voters.

What saddens me most is that all the old dears who were out kicking up about the medical card will all be happy as Larry once Mé Féin is catered for once more and won't give a toss about the future people who will be denied the same rights, as long as I get what I want. We have got to start thinking as a community and of the consequences of such policies. The so called grey protest was a total joke as they will all gladly reward with their votes the same u-turning politicians who messed everything up in the first place.

I think what we really need is serious campaigning to bring out the younger voters who are going to pay for all of the this, the under 25s, the next generation. They are the only ones who have the force of numbers to outvote the "dumb greys".

shoegirl

seamus wrote: »

Because attacking public servants just doing their job (the Gardai) and destroying private property is *exactly* what will get foreign investors banging down our doors.

I'd love to say you are right, but I'd suggest you go and read up about how the lives of those who use shock tactics are made a misery by the powers that be, even a minor conviction for public disorder can result in very severe consequences as you subsequently would have an arrest, making it difficult to apply under visa waiver programmes, emmigrate etc, on the grounds of having a "criminal past." A good friend of mine even had his house raided twice by the special branch on account of his (fairly mild by some standards) opposition to Renedition flights at Shannon.

Permabear

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jmayo

seamus wrote: »

Because attacking public servants just doing their job (the Gardai) and destroying private property is *exactly* what will get foreign investors banging down our doors.

If the price is right a lot of foreign investors couldn't give a cr** so long as they make a handsome ROI.
Lots of countries would have dissidents, civil strife, even armed conflicts but that never stopped some investment.
Saying that it doesn't help get the nicer more upmarket type investors.

Rioting will only play into the government politicans hand and give them the higher moral ground, whereas making them uncomfortable and unemployed is much better.

Phototoxin

I'm been commenting here and there about how we need a proper full blown protest to jam up the dail. Maybe more will get done when that happens.

Failing that just assassinate the government

Permabear

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jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

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There was Mr "Stroke" Fahy who ended up serving time for ehhh his strokes

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ahmmmm I give you Mr Jackie Healey-Rae, who will now speak to you on the global credit crunch and how Free Market Economics do not work :eek:

Sometimes I think the US system where the President appoints his cabinet from wherever and not just from elected representatives is a good idea.
A good chunk of our elected representatives are teachers, solicitors and auctioneers, together with a few farmers, publicans, accountants and one or two third level lecturers.
You have a few self employed business people, a few other professions e.g Doctors, architects, engineers and that is about it.
Albert Reynolds, Peter Barry (I think) were the few who actually had run sucessful businesses.

Heard Eamon Dunphy mention how he asked Peter Sutherland if he would go into politics and seek election. He replied that he did not need the hassel.
He probably rightly reckoned he could be more successful and get more things done out in the real world.
It is not attractive to go into politics, since you are probably tied up in this parochial ar** wiping, baby kissing stuff, you are hamstrung by the collective decisions of the rest of the party faithful and have to ass lick the leader in order to succeed.
Hence you end up with only a few good people in the end.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ah yes but then their policies were adapted and adopted by FF, they stopped being a moral ethical guiding force and affectively ended up beeing seen as the right wing of FF. Bring back Dessie, at least he had courage and stood for something.

bmaxi

I agree completely that rioting on the streets would only play into the hands of the politicians. The surest way to kill a monster is to remove it's head. At the next General Election, we should remove the entire cabinet from Dail Eireann, they have already demonstrated their incompetence and in light of that would not constitute any great loss to the country. It would be a greater shake up of Fianna Fail, and a warning to the other parties, if we demonstrate we are not prepared to tolerate parish pump politics any longer. Why should there be "safe seats", why should any politician, of whatever hue, be smug and complacent in the face of the electorate. In theory, we are their masters and not they ours, it's time we showed them that.

Frankie Lee

I'm a man who dislike Fine Gael and most things it stands for but it had the most capable politician this country has seen in Alan Dukes but he failed to be re-elected mainly because he did not do enough work for the constituents.

Examples like this demonstrate the need for stronger local government so our TD's can serve the purpose of the national interest.

Permabear

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bmaxi

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I'm a man who dislike Fine Gael and most things it stands for but it had the most capable politician this country has seen in Alan Dukes but he failed to be re-elected mainly because he did not do enough work for the constituents.

Examples like this demonstrate the need for stronger local government so our TD's can serve the purpose of the national interest.

I do, although no fan of FG myself, share your opinion of Alan Dukes. Given the drubbing that FG took in that election, it would be difficult to lay the blame on any particular failing. He shares with Enda Kenny however, a difficulty in endearing himself to the neutrals and his resignation of the party leadership coupled with his love / hate relationship with John Bruton did little to help his prospects.

On stronger Local Government, I agree with the principle but in reality, there is, if it were possible, more cronyism, corruption and tribalism at this level than at National level. It's away from this we need to get.

jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

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This is getting scary, we are starting to agree on things

Look at Mayo...
Enda Kenny FG - Teacher, father a TD. I know a lot of people can't stand him and of course he is no bertie etc.
To me that is a plus not a liability. He got the job that nobody wanted and managed to swing the party around.
He also appointed a rival Bruton as Finance spokesperson, which I believe was good news.

Michael Ring FG - auctioneer. Works hard for the people good old parochial stuff, can sometimes be eejit with his shouting for smokers rights etc but is worth it just to see him wind up that buffoon O'Donghue.

John O'Mahony FG - teacher and pretty sucessful GAA manager except with Mayo :rolleyes: New guy on the block, no track record.

Dara O'Calleary FF - father and grandfather TDs - Ba in Business, worked with Chambers Ireland. New guy on the block no real track record.

Beverly Cooper Flynn FF sometimes - need I say anything about her and her record :rolleyes:

I think the key attribute should be that you know you do not know stuff and then appoint key people that have the knowledge to guide you.
BTW I don't mean your uncle, son or daughter as is often the case.

We will never have experts within the ranks of the politicans, but at least people should not be appointed because they have been good reliable ass lickers or they come from constituency without a nearby minister.
Looking at our current/previous bunch they don't even appear to have basic cop on.

Frankie Lee

bmaxi wrote: »

I do, although no fan of FG myself, share your opinion of Alan Dukes. Given the drubbing that FG took in that election, it would be difficult to lay the blame on any particular failing. He shares with Enda Kenny however, a difficulty in endearing himself to the neutrals and his resignation of the party leadership coupled with his love / hate relationship with John Bruton did little to help his prospects.

On stronger Local Government, I agree with the principle but in reality, there is, if it were possible, more cronyism, corruption and tribalism at this level than at National level. It's away from this we need to get.

You are dead right, if only there was a way of ensuring that corruption doesn't take place, which is nigh on impossible. Maybe the answer could be local peoples congresses or somethng along those lines.

Permabear

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Darragh29

brianthebard wrote: »

We need to be able to make a vote of no confidence in the government.

Best thing that could happen would be for the Green Party to be targetted by mass protests, in order to get them to withdraw their support for the government. If enough people concentrate on getting the Green Party to pull out and if the campaign was intense enough, I think they would wobble, then there would have to be an election because the government would certainly lose the vote of confidence that would imminently follow...

bmaxi

Darragh29 wrote: »

Best thing that could happen would be for the Green Party to be targetted by mass protests, in order to get them to withdraw their support for the government. If enough people concentrate on getting the Green Party to pull out and if the campaign was intense enough, I think they would wobble, then there would have to be an election because the government would certainly lose the vote of confidence that would imminently follow...

The flaw in that argument is the Greens know, given the mood of the people, they will be the ones to take the biggest hit in comparative terms. Far better for them, having shown themselves totally devoid of backbone and principle, to keep their heads down and hold out for the Ministerial pension.

Highsider

Wont ever happen. People in this country have no backbone unfortunatly.

Victor

KingSitric wrote: »

Do we need a riot in Dublin to get the government to focus?

No, one would need one in Offaly.

lostexpectation

seems it wasn't about the banks but about environmental protestors being arrested illegallly

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/89987

djpbarry

jmayo wrote: »

Sometimes I think the US system where the President appoints his cabinet from wherever and not just from elected representatives is a good idea.

Whatever about the pros and cons, it would never be accepted here. People want to elect the EU commission, never mind the cabinet.

djpbarry

donegalfella wrote: »

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In the hypothetical situation where the state has to pay out the full whack of the bank guarantee, the economy has completely and utterly collapsed and I would imagine the total cost to every man, woman and child would be well in excess of €100,000. In other words, in such a scenario, we’d be screwed, bank guarantee or no bank guarantee.

RobBrn

Yes, we do

Darragh29

I'm all for a riot since hearing about this FAS outrage, 10K transatlantic flights and $410 hair do's.

Phototoxin

Always nice to meet a fellow democrat.

Our forefather had to fight to show their disagreement. The government doesn't listen anyway. We should just fook them out on their arses and elect a new government. Harney earning €200,000 and then she gets a €320/$410 hair do but wont pay for it. Her hair is her own business. Then its called a 'small amount of money' despite us being in a recession... way to go government.

Our crooked bertie wont ever be in jail or anything. Yet in the UK when they were investigating the sale of peerages the met knocked on the door with their warrant and searched no.10. Would never happen here at all.

Darragh29

Phototoxin wrote: »

Our forefather had to fight to show their disagreement. The government doesn't listen anyway. We should just fook them out on their arses and elect a new government. Harney earning €200,000 and then she gets a €320/$410 hair do but wont pay for it. Her hair is her own business. Then its called a 'small amount of money' despite us being in a recession... way to go government.

Our crooked bertie wont ever be in jail or anything. Yet in the UK when they were investigating the sale of peerages the met knocked on the door with their warrant and searched no.10. Would never happen here at all.

we can't fu*k them out, we have to wait for another 4 years, that's the problem...